Pub 108 - House Decay Rules Feedback

BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
edited July 7 in Test Center
Feedback related to Publish 108 House Decay Rules
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Comments

    • Condemned houses will go through six stages of decay which will take at least five days,
      • Like New -> Slightly Worn -> Somewhat Worn -> Fairly Worn -> Greatly Worn -> In Danger of Collapsing
    • When a house goes into the condemned status the house will become private and all access will be removed.  Friend and Co-owner lists will be cleared.
    • Houses with rental vendors will become OSI owned and have to go through a cycle for the second time to notify vendor owners.
    • The house collapse timer will appear on the house sign as it nears the “In Danger of Collapsing” stage.  This timer will indicate how long until the house collapses.
    • Information regarding the whereabouts of structures that are in danger of collapsing can be obtained by visiting City Trade Ministers.  City Trade ministers will bark this information when approaching, similar to how Krampus’ location is relayed.
    • When the house drops the housing area will be fenced off while the contents of the house are packed into barrels within the housing area.  No players or pets will be able to enter the fenced are while the contents are being packed.  Players may not teleport into the fenced area while the contents are being packed.
    • Once all contents have been packed away players will be able to punch their way into the housing area for a chance to break into the barrels. Barrels can only be attacked by non Endless Journey Accounts and players must be unarmed.  Unarmed damage is the only damage that will break barrels.
    • Players may not damage barrels unless they can hold 50 items and 100 stones in their backpack.
    • Mounts and Pets are restricted from this area. Barrels will remain until attacked or next server maintenance.


    For those who haven't read it yet.

    Without testing, this appears to be a vast improvement. I have a couple of concerns though.

    1. I think co-owners and maybe friends should be notified before they can't access a house. My guildmates and I have houses on different shards so we can have a guildhouse where we play. This means that we each have our own corner that stores our personal stuff. If my guildmate's house is going to fall, I'm going to lose my stuff. Please consider giving co-owners a couple of phases to remove their personal belongings before being evicted.

    2. I assume that the City Trade Ministers will also display facet? Will you have to visit the Fel CTM to get Fel houses? What about Ter Mur or Abyss?

    I think this is a big step in the right direction. I just hope that there is plenty of time to test it out!

  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,018

    How does one punch in the game?
    Does holding a spell book or shield count as being armed?

  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    edited February 26
    Please, make it so, for Felucca Ruleset IDOCS, that Hidden players can punch the barrels WITHOUT getting revealed by such action.

    PvPers will then need to to "actively" reveal their targets and attack them otherwise, if breaking the barrels open will unhide a player, it would become too easy for PvPers to attack and kill them.

    Especially, for new or returning players who are obviously weaker as compared to established players.

    IDOCs can be a source of income or items for players who do not have much, yet, they are too weak to withstand a fight with existing, older players.

    If there is players who need the most items from IDOCs, those are the weaker, new or returning players, certainly not existing, older players.

    Therefore, to my opinion, the mechanics should be one such that benefits the most those players who are the weakest, certainly not those who are the strongest.

    At least, if weak new/returning players can break open a Barrel remaining hidden, these new/returning weaker players will still have a chance to get something from an IDOC unless they are actively revealed and then attacked/killed by much stronger older players versus which they are not a match.

    And NO passive reveal as possible, please, only strictly active reveal.

    And having 100 Hiding+120 Stealthing should always beat 100 Reveal and permit the hider to stay hidden. Make it so that investing so many skill points to stay hidden at least pays.

    Thanks.
  • Also what about wrestlers? Does having wrestling skill count as unarmed punching? 
    If so, that would give wrestling mages a huge advantage over any sort of dexer who would have to disarm to punch and would thus be vulnerable to atacks. I'm thinking about felucca rulesets here...
    If having wrestling skill does not count as unarmed punching wrestlers would be unable to participate because they can't disarm their fists...
    Maybe allow both weapons and wrestling to do damage to barrels to make it fair? 
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 92
    edited February 26
    Please don't make wrestling skill factor in to this. The price of wrestling powerscrolls is already crazy enough.
  • Will town criers only anounce houses that have reached the "in danger of collapsing" stage or will they anounce houses as soon as they start to decay?
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    Jepeth said:
    Please don't make wrestling skill factor in to this. The price of wrestling powerscrolls is already crazy enough.
    Absolutely agree.

    Do not give any further reason to players to further push prices for 120 wrestling powerscrolls through and beyond the roof.....
  • Backpacks must have room for 50 items and 100 stones. Does this mean loot will drop directly into the backpack when destroying barrels? 
    What happens to items that are way heavier than 100 stones? Some rare rubble pieces or trophy fish come to mind among other things...
    Overall I like the new idoc ideas and much prefer them to the previously proposed changes. Definitely a step in the right direction!

  • Max_BlackoakMax_Blackoak Posts: 485
    edited February 26
    popps said:
    Please, make it so, for Felucca Ruleset IDOCS, that Hidden players can punch the barrels WITHOUT getting revealed by such action.

    PvPers will then need to to "actively" reveal their targets and attack them otherwise, if breaking the barrels open will unhide a player, it would become too easy for PvPers to attack and kill them.

    Especially, for new or returning players who are obviously weaker as compared to established players.

    IDOCs can be a source of income or items for players who do not have much, yet, they are too weak to withstand a fight with existing, older players.

    If there is players who need the most items from IDOCs, those are the weaker, new or returning players, certainly not existing, older players.

    Therefore, to my opinion, the mechanics should be one such that benefits the most those players who are the weakest, certainly not those who are the strongest.

    At least, if weak new/returning players can break open a Barrel remaining hidden, these new/returning weaker players will still have a chance to get something from an IDOC unless they are actively revealed and then attacked/killed by much stronger older players versus which they are not a match.

    And NO passive reveal as possible, please, only strictly active reveal.

    And having 100 Hiding+120 Stealthing should always beat 100 Reveal and permit the hider to stay hidden. Make it so that investing so many skill points to stay hidden at least pays.

    Thanks.
    The weak players you mention have plenty of facets to enjoy idocs in absolute safety. Please don't try to create Trammel scenarios in Felucca!
    Also the last suggestion is ridiculous. Absolute safety for a skill investment of 220 points? No way! There always needs to be a chance to reveal, no matter how high steslth, hiding etc is.
  • GraceGrace Posts: 117
    popps said:
    Jepeth said:
    Please don't make wrestling skill factor in to this. The price of wrestling powerscrolls is already crazy enough.
    Absolutely agree.

    Do not give any further reason to players to further push prices for 120 wrestling powerscrolls through and beyond the roof.....
    I love that wrestling is going to be used! It is a feeding frenzy after all. And vultures don't typically
    wield weapons.

    Why do you think, without even testing it yet, that some fencing and barrels have such high weapon/wrestling skill itself you need even need 120 wrestling??
  • The newsletter said absolutely nothing about wrestling skill, just that you had to be un-armed. How about we let testing start before we jump to conclusions. If someone could post updates when houses on Test Center are going to go IDOC that would be great so we could get more testers on.
  • 1. will people be able to attack while inside the "barrel area"
          a. If so how can i defend myself if i have to be weaponless to break barrels
          b. if not you just ruined fel idocs one of the last places to get good pvp

    2. How will house placing work?
         a. same? what if barrels and fence are still there when house becomes open?

    3. will wrestling, tactics, swing speed, hit chance,  dex, stam, str, int, etc have any effect on barrel smashing?

    4. will packing the contents of a overloaded house cause major lag issues? How are you going to test this on test center a place where most houses are empty. Especially houses with not only a lot of items but very heavy items like rubble or resources.

    5. Will OSI houses actually go through the entire decay process for the second time as most do not as of now. 

    6. will grubbers still spawn? or any monsters that do damage?

    7. How does this help solve the massive BOT problem?  This seems significantly easier. 

    8. Will barrel loot fall to ground or into backpack?  
         a. if more than one person is hitting a barrel who gets the loot?

    In summary i think there a lot of things that need to be tested severely however i dont think its possible to test some of them on test center. As much as i like the idea of a new idoc system i dont think this was thought out very well. 

    Personally, I would keep idocs the same but make monsters spawn when house drops. Monster level being relative to house contents. 
  • DasilvaDasilva Posts: 98
    edited February 26
    if your desire is to make it fair for everyone then the best thing to do would be turn off all spell casting all weapon using and make it strictly a fist fight, that way EVERYONE has a fair chance to defend themserlves no script pot chugging no scrip mass casting no script mass nuking or walling or whatever it is that ppl do at the idocs make it a no pet no nothing area
    where all u can bring is your hands and body THAT would be hella fun oh and no packies either and you cannot place a house till the following morning when the barrels get deleted

    honestly I se epotential in this change but there is a ton of room for abuse, also I see you are using great lakes as the test bed for these changes, are you going to reset these houses every day so everyone can test the idocs? thats the only fair way to do things.
  • KirthagKirthag Posts: 519
    edited February 26
    Everything Uriah and Dragonheart said, plus a thought:

    Considering scripters will have to script barrel punching (easy), ransacking (vacuum) and then running to their animals to dump loots into, then go back to another barrel, rinse, repeat. And using the EC I think this would be much easier done with an automated macro... forget doing an entire script.

    *sigh*

    This really doesn't solve the issue of scripting, multi-boxing, and other illegal activities. I don't script, but I can already see how the loop would be made with just a casual glance at the offered system.

    The issue isn't the IDOC itself, or how IDOCs work really. The issue is the scripters and with all the conversations and suggestions we made over the years (lately more verbose), it all has to do with scripters.
  • DrakelordDrakelord Posts: 1,066
    ooo I love this, far to many times in the past I would miss out on a idoc, being able to see the location from the trade ministers, oo I love this.  Fence off area, no pets no teleporting, again I love this, thank you!  Now of course we need a idoc on TC1 to test and give feedback, can you all do something like that?  I like to see this in action on TC1
    Remove Trap = Bad News
    for
    Treasure Hunters
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,018

    It would slow the scripters down if every time you leave the fenced in area you need to punch your way in again and the number of punches needed increased as well. Lets say the first time required 10 punches, the second time required 20 punches, the third time required 40, then 80, etc.

  • usernameusername Posts: 97
    TimSt said:

    It would slow the scripters down if every time you leave the fenced in area you need to punch your way in again and the number of punches needed increased as well. Lets say the first time required 10 punches, the second time required 20 punches, the third time required 40, then 80, etc.

    How does this slow them down? They're perfect players with 0 reaction time, aka, they win every time. As I mentioned in the other thread: 
    They don't have reaction times. They are faster. The script will find all barrels, delegate each to a character and attack them before you even notice the house is gone. This 'fix' doesn't solve anything besides making it easier for scripters and making work for them coding some garbage system.
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over 1 year and counting.
  • DasilvaDasilva Posts: 98
    edited February 26
    umm 1 big problem folks you have to turn off magery and ALL forms of scripting/casting within the compound otherwise whats gonna happen is whoever brings a bunch of friends to the idoc and stations them around the compound will just spam earthquake and kill everyone over and over while the rest of his group loots this is actually not going to work at all unless u turn off EVERYTHING u either come naked to the compound or you dont get in, no casting no chugging no weapons no armor nothing, otherwise this is gonna become a worse nightmare than what you already have because NO ONE will get anything except a certain individual

    OH and you can easily do this make it a town type situation the coding already exists in game 
    "you cannot cast this in town"  problem solved go to the britain farms u will see exactly what im talkin about, you cannot spam eq and evs and blades and all that there its the only hope you have for fairness of any kind
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    popps said:
    Please, make it so, for Felucca Ruleset IDOCS, that Hidden players can punch the barrels WITHOUT getting revealed by such action.

    PvPers will then need to to "actively" reveal their targets and attack them otherwise, if breaking the barrels open will unhide a player, it would become too easy for PvPers to attack and kill them.

    Especially, for new or returning players who are obviously weaker as compared to established players.

    IDOCs can be a source of income or items for players who do not have much, yet, they are too weak to withstand a fight with existing, older players.

    If there is players who need the most items from IDOCs, those are the weaker, new or returning players, certainly not existing, older players.

    Therefore, to my opinion, the mechanics should be one such that benefits the most those players who are the weakest, certainly not those who are the strongest.

    At least, if weak new/returning players can break open a Barrel remaining hidden, these new/returning weaker players will still have a chance to get something from an IDOC unless they are actively revealed and then attacked/killed by much stronger older players versus which they are not a match.

    And NO passive reveal as possible, please, only strictly active reveal.

    And having 100 Hiding+120 Stealthing should always beat 100 Reveal and permit the hider to stay hidden. Make it so that investing so many skill points to stay hidden at least pays.

    Thanks.
    The weak players you mention have plenty of facets to enjoy idocs in absolute safety. Please don't try to create Trammel scenarios in Felucca!
    Also the last suggestion is ridiculous. Absolute safety for a skill investment of 220 points? No way! There always needs to be a chance to reveal, no matter how high steslth, hiding etc is.
    Who talked about "absolute" safety ?

    I suggested that PvPers needed to ACTIVELY reveal hidden players (no passive reveal), that is, WORK for their play style and not have their targets served onto them on a silver platter....

    And yes, players with 100.0 Hiding + 120.0 Stealthing should by all means beat 100.0 Reveal because they invested a fat 220.0 skill points in their template thus making themselves more vulnerable to be attacked not having comparable combat points rememining as those attacking them who, instead, invested more heavily their skill points into combat skills.

    I think that going down the path of itemization was bad for Ultima Online, it has become a race of having to always put out items that are more powerfull then previous ones with no ending....

    And this, of course, has penalized much new and returning players who find themselves at the lower bottom with higher end items being too much expensive for them to hope to get in a reasonable time.

    Ultima Online, to my viewing, needs to progressively back off from items be so much important and give more importance to skills, instead.

    Hence, investing skills in this rather then that should be rewarding to players.

    And 220.0 skill points (100.0 Hiding + 120.0 Stealthing) invested into a hiding defensive ability should never be beaten by only 100.0 skill points invested into an offensive ability (Reveal).

    Want more ability to Reveal hidden players, then INVEST a comparable amount of skill points into revealing them thus REDUCING the combat ability by that amount of skill points.

    Choices, not having one's own target served easily on a silver platter maintaining the combat ability to kill them easily because they are way underdefended as compared to those attacking them.....
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    Grace said:
    popps said:
    Jepeth said:
    Please don't make wrestling skill factor in to this. The price of wrestling powerscrolls is already crazy enough.
    Absolutely agree.

    Do not give any further reason to players to further push prices for 120 wrestling powerscrolls through and beyond the roof.....
    I love that wrestling is going to be used! It is a feeding frenzy after all. And vultures don't typically
    wield weapons.

    Why do you think, without even testing it yet, that some fencing and barrels have such high weapon/wrestling skill itself you need even need 120 wrestling??
    If wrestling will provide an advantage, my take is that players WILL go for maximizing it thus seeking 120 wrestling powerscrolls...

    They will train it up to 120.0, then put it on a Soulstone, and take it out whenever an IDOC is announced by the NPC.

    Result ?

    Powerscrolls of 120.0 Wrestling prices will go through the roof.....

    No thanks.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    Kirthag said:
    Everything Uriah and Dragonheart said, plus a thought:

    Considering scripters will have to script barrel punching (easy), ransacking (vacuum) and then running to their animals to dump loots into, then go back to another barrel, rinse, repeat. And using the EC I think this would be much easier done with an automated macro... forget doing an entire script.

    *sigh*

    This really doesn't solve the issue of scripting, multi-boxing, and other illegal activities. I don't script, but I can already see how the loop would be made with just a casual glance at the offered system.

    The issue isn't the IDOC itself, or how IDOCs work really. The issue is the scripters and with all the conversations and suggestions we made over the years (lately more verbose), it all has to do with scripters.
    I think this Lady has a POINT.

    Please, @Bleak , listen to her.....

    The NUMBER ONE reason for this IDOC change was caused by rampant scripting at IDOCS.

    But, if Scripters will STILL be able to script IDOCs after your planned changes, what would this new mechanics have achieved ?

    Hardly anything..... scripting was before, scripting will be afterwards.....

    So, please, let's come up with a REALLY Script-Proof mechanics which will not be possible to be scripted by anyone.

    Thanks.
  • DasilvaDasilva Posts: 98
    it will achieve that the person with the most friends is gonna win every time basically your bringing in walmart to kill off the little guy if you allow casting etc then no one except 1 person is gonna get jack at idocs anymore period doesnt maytter how many fists you bring to a magery fight your gonna lose

  • sibblesibble Posts: 41
    edited February 27
    First I responded to a thread that got closed and told to post in feedback.  I then opened a new specific thread in feedback which then got closed and told to post in here.  This is annoying, I posted about 1 specific change under feedback, there's really no reason to close it forcing me to post my feedback for yet a third time.

    Unarmed damage is the only damage that will break barrels.
    Ok so at Felucca IDOCS where there is PVP, basically the only template worth running is a mage with wrestling.  They'll be able to both cast spells on players while they're swinging at barrels and also being able to dodge because they have wrestling.  Any template with a weapon skill will have to put the weapon away leaving themselves completely vulnerable to undodgeable attacks.  Please consider all scenarios with this change.

    That's really the only thing I consider unbalanced with these changes.

    I would make it so ANY form of damage do 1 damage each hit to the barrel, can't be poisoned or strangled or any other form of damage over time, must to be direct damage.

    OFF-TOPIC EDIT: 
    I like the idea of the minister barking whereabouts of the IDOCs.  More people can get involved which also means less items being destroyed and I think it's a cool change.  Thanks.
  • DasilvaDasilva Posts: 98
    so you dont consider it unbalanced that joe schmoe already has like 10 reds who work for him at every idoc being able to just stand around an eq everyone else freely whole the others in his crew smash barrels as unbalanced
    well lots of luck with that one....in a couple months the little guy will be begging for idocs to be changed back to the way they were, while the big guy will raise all his prices on the stuff on his website since hes the only one that gets stuff anymore. like i said this idea has a LOT of potential, in its current format its a nightmare
  • MordredMordred Posts: 99
    the previous post was deleted, so lets try again!
    The no packies is a really good idea! but what happen with resources? Rubbles?
    Instead of 20 packies, someone can bring 20 accs, all with wrestling and they get 20 more chance than the person with 1 account!
  • sibblesibble Posts: 41
    edited February 27
    Dasilva said:
    so you dont consider it unbalanced that joe schmoe already has like 10 reds who work for him at every idoc being able to just stand around an eq everyone else freely whole the others in his crew smash barrels as unbalanced
    Exploits and multi-boxing have nothing to do with in-game balance.

    That's called cheating.

    Unless said person legitimately has 10 other people playing 10 other accounts - if that's what you're referring to that also has nothing to do with balance either.

    Balance is me and you have equal opportunity.  I personally don't care about cheaters as I don't let other people affect the enjoyment I get out of a game.  I do understand you want changes that will hinder cheaters but I'm simply addressing what I feel is unbalanced.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,575
    Dasilva said:
    it will achieve that the person with the most friends is gonna win every time basically your bringing in walmart to kill off the little guy if you allow casting etc then no one except 1 person is gonna get jack at idocs anymore period doesnt maytter how many fists you bring to a magery fight your gonna lose

    That is why I am suggesting to permit to punch the barrel staying hidden and not getting revealed...

    At least, the little guys who is undernumbered or weaker will have a chance at getting something and it will not be that the old, experienced and better organized players will get it all leaving to the little guy nothing or just the crumbs....

    I hope that the Developers will Design a well balanced out mechanics which will give good, reasonable and realistic chances to the little, weak and undepowered guy to still be able to get stuff at IDOCs and not make the new mechanics the domain of numerous, established and strong Guilds....
  • NorryNorry Posts: 240
    @popps one EQ from a red, and you will be revealed. doesn't matter if you have 120 stealth and 100 hiding or not. they will reveal you with damage. almost no one uses detect hidden just to find someone in pvp. 

    they will use it for the passive chance, but there are so many other skills that can be useful for them to use instead.
  • RadstRadst Posts: 32
    1. FEL IDOC will also need adjusted
       - Seen those multiboxing auto archers?? and mage bots doing auto EQs??
       - and their ninja reveal is way OP. Together they reveal and kill everyone else easily and loot everything.
       - and they park their auto loot bots everywhere safely and ready to loot because no one else can get near to kill them.

    This insane level of greed and cheating will need to be addressed.

    You will hear many pvp'ers say FEL IDOC are the best...etc, but they wont mention who they cheat with in their guilds.

    FEL side is not so innocent.

    2. How about placing?
       - To remove script cheating completely is to just random raffle it.
       - Proposal:
          - Server will place the same exact building on spot when the barrel period is finished.
          - Anyone can click the house sign to join the raffle. One account per raffle.
          - After x hours, winner is drawn. Winner has x hours to accept trade.
          - and disallow those chop boxes on spot.
  • King_GregKing_Greg Posts: 164
    A  lot of talk about Fel idocs. 

    ITS FEL. Kill first, loot second. 
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