Pub 108 - House Decay Rules Feedback

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Comments

  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    edited March 1
    Was going to test some difference in damage on barrels but  need to wait for another reset on test to be able to hit some mome barrels.

    But from checking paperdolls the difference between gm skills and lvl 1 primer compared to120 skills and lvl 3 primer with 100 di isnt that high when both are in horrific beast form.
  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,094
    The simple fact that players are already looking at ways to circumvent is pretty much par for the course, this whole thing is bizarre.
    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 596
    This instance of the test center was set up for Felucca testing, but I haven't seen any posts about anyone fighting over a fel idoc on test, only theories about how it might go.  Did anyone attend a pvp IDOC?

    @ Max_Blackoak
    There doesn't seem to be any rule against having a weapon in your pack. Can you not arm up and defend yourself it someone attacks you? 
    If one were playing a dexer disarmed that would negate the defense allowing 1 solid blow in if not 2 before reflexes kick in. If a stealther ambushed someone that could easily end with 45-110 damage. 

    @Bleak maybe it would be better to allow weapons but have a hard cap on damage no matter what. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    edited March 1
    Polaris said:
    As it is right now everyone is going to be in Horrific Beast mode anyway. You are just going to have 50 giant blue beasts at castle IDOCs......... nobody is going to be able to see anything except for scripts programmed to hit "item ID - barrel" or something similar with EC, which I would never play.... we would never change from the CC.

    Horrific beast should not be allowed. I too would prefer wrestling and skills not to count, I would just rather use my IDOC character that has stealth/hiding who can go to fel. I never want to join or be a part of any guilds that pvp.... two of those guilds are a huge part of the scripting problem and I would never think of playing with them. If I am solo and have to have 100 wrestling, anatomy, tactics, and 60 necro (horrific beast for Tram), with wrestling primer active (cannot use stealth primer for whisper).... it just doesn't make sense for stealthers in Fel anymore.

    In Fel, you should be able to use whatever skills allowed you to survive / fight before. How is an "idoc" character going to compete in pvp? They won't... the guilds will be PvP'ing and using bots or something to hit the barrels while they defend them. Just my thoughts. I would take the skill out of it, let every character hit the barrels for the same damage. Whoever is at the IDOC shares the loot..... if not the gold website guy will get it all, because he has 100 wrestling 3 primers and 120 power scrolls already. We have 0 of each......... just saying.
    Personally, I think it as wrong to want to use IDOCs as yet another "choke" point where to more easily and conveniently fight PvP targets.

    I see IDOCs as more "bonuses", extra loot which should instead be used to "even out" wealth to those players who, in Ultima Online, have less and, thus, find themselves as a gross disadvantage as compared to other players who, whatever the reasons, have their Templates far more advances, geared up etc. etc.

    Wanting to Design IDOCs mechanics towards "the Rule of the Fittest" I think it as wrong and a lost chance to use IDOCs wealth to help new and returning players to close the huge GAP that they find with existing, more advanced players's characters.

    Of course, this is 100% a Developers' call and decision, I am only saying, that each Design decision that is made, obviously, has consequences on players' base and gameplay.

    To MY opinion, to the greater benefit of Ultima Online, IDOCs wealth would do a greater benefit to Ultima Online as a whole (that is, to help increase its players' base), if it was used to help new and returning players to CLOSE the GAP which often they are intimidated by versus existing, more advances players' Characters, instead of using IDOCs as yet another "choke" point to promote players' conflictuality and fighting.

    Those often spoken about 2-4 weeks accounts which look UO up and then, when they see the huge GAP they would need to have to cover as compared to more advanced and wealthier players' characters, stop playing UO althougether..... Perhaps, is these players could "More likely" have a chance to get items from IDOCs, Trammel or Felucca facets, likewise, they could consider continuing playing UO because getting some "head start" from IDOCs loot towards closing that large GAP which so much intimidates them ?

    Of course, then, if one agreed with IDOCs wealth to find its best use towards new and returning players rather then existing, advanced players, the related mechanics governing how players get items at an IDOC, should take this in to consideration as its # 1 Priority thus having designed mechanics where new and returned players would never have higher difficulties as compared to existing, more advanced and wealthier players' characters in order to get IDOCs items.

    Needing 120 wresling scrolls, having to fight against existing, more advanced and wealthier players' characters, plays totally AGAINST, to my opinion, the odds of new and returning players who are weaker and poorer, usually, towards getting something from an IDOC.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 325
    edited March 1
    @Mesanna @Kyronix @Bleak The more I test this, the less I am liking it. Is there any chance of:

    1) not allowing pets within say, 30 tiles of the exterior wall of barrels? This keeps the scripters from "script dumping" the loot into a packie

    2) the same distance requirement for EJ accounts (see #1)

    3) Make EACH character hit/damage/destroy an exterior barrel to even be able to come inside to destroy the interior barrels, OR EVEN BE ABLE to pick up/be traded loot from the idoc

    4) make it so that if you are "over weight" the items you would receive when you start emptying your backpack are deleted to keep ppl from hitting several barrels and collecting loot from all of them as they empty out their pack

    5) This is a big one! NO PLACEMENT OF HOUSING WITHIN 30 TILES OF AN IDOC. When a house turns "like new" house placement is automatically turned off until after the house falls and placement is available

    6) Have you actually thought of banning the scripters? It's always better to be proactive than reactive.

    More can be done, but these suggestions would be a good start!

    Can you please respond with the possibility/likelyhood of any of this coming to pass. As well as any information as too how much longer this will be tested, before going "live". Nothing has been said, and I really hope the plan isn't for this to go live this week without any changes!!! Thanks, and again, I applaud the effort, but some changes are needed if goal is to "level the playing field" between the scripters, and the players who DO play within the rules. As far as the skill needed, I have no problem with ANY of the skill requirements. Someone who spends the time to train up a character SHOULD have an advantage.

    Obviously, the best solution would be to ban the scripters, but, for whatever reason, that isn't happening!
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • The simple fact that players are already looking at ways to circumvent is pretty much par for the course, this whole thing is bizarre.

    That's actually a good thing considering it's still on test. Catch it now when it's easier to fix than later when the devs are working on another list.
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 66
    edited March 1
    They won't post here Petra, and if they did it will be the exact opposite of what should be done. Some of them may have actually, and it's the exact opposite of what should be done... They want to protect anything they can. Every character should do the same damage at IDOCs... the powerscrolls, primers, and skill requirements will limit people from going. Everyone should be able to go and do their damage to whatever barrels (same as all) and the loot be shared. If someone has 50 accounts, let em. We have only 3 active accounts right now, so this obviously is not us. That is more of a pro for UO in general (funding.) Perhaps make each character at an IDOC break his own piece of the fence before being able to enter? Or spawn guardians and you have to get looting rights on a guardian to enter / loot.

    They want you to be powerless in Fel because the same 2-3 guilds will be there. They already know what will happen if someone cannot use hiding, stealth, and the stealth mastery. For one... they would not be able to use the wrestling mastery automatically. Two... well, they are sitting ducks trapped inside barrels for EQs to kill, energy fields will trap them inside. EQs do not reveal a person with stealth mastery active, for those who do not know. It should definitely be a town casting zone once a house enters decay status at all.

    Hiding, stealth, and detect hidden should all be in play at Fel IDOCs like normal... with the new changes of course. This would require stealth mastery, not wrestling mastery. Please take off skill requirements and damage modifiers. People wasted a ton of gold buying 120 magery and eval powerscrolls and such, don't make them drop those skills to 0 to build a 100% DI "suit" and change to a melee char that casts Horrific Beast, that's just kind of crazy. Stealth Fel IDOCers have to have HPR suits with damage eaters to survive the EQs already. It will be impossible with a DI suit. We would have to have 2 IDOC characters..... one for Fel and one for Tram. Every char, even archers and crafters, should do the same damage.

    It should also be a town zone too in that... once a house enters decay status, no houses can be placed within 30 tiles of it. This will prevent scripters from placing 10 small houses lined with chests and from running wrestlers back and forth from chests to barrels while the PvP guilds simply kill all blues and protect their wrestler bots.

    I've been to 1000 Fel IDOCs on Atlantic shard the past 6 years, I know how they work. I was the blue hiding all of the time. Always on my name... no fake named or pretend characters. : P : P
  • GraceGrace Posts: 117
    "Every char, even archers and crafters, should do the same damage."

    Cool so if they do that for IDOCS they should do it for every other scenario.  No skill needed. Everyone does the same damage.

    UO is about choices. You can't do everything on one char. I know many people get around that by taking oh, I don't know, three accounts to the same event. 
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 66
    edited March 1
    No, they take archers to Em events... one with a dragon slayer, one with a demon slayer, and one with no slayer and an extra mod.

    In what scenario can you for see any blue, Tram, wrestler getting anything from a Felucca IDOC? No Tram player has ever gotten a single thing from Fel before unless they were hiding and stealthed. You cannot have stealth mastery active with the wrestling mastery. Blues do not kill other blues... so their wrestlers will be just fine.

    So we all need to have 2 out of our 7 characters be an IDOC character now? It sounds like you do not want new players going to IDOCs. Do not worry, the guy with 50 accounts is already making his 50 wrestlers....... you need not worry about that, I can assure you. All 50 will be stronger than any we can make. You like that idea, honestly? You want 100 Horrific Beasts with Wrestling Primer 3s at Tram castles now, honestly? Let's think this through some more.......
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    KHAN said:
    @ Mesanna @ Kyronix @ Bleak The more I test this, the less I am liking it. Is there any chance of:

    1) not allowing pets within say, 30 tiles of the exterior wall of barrels? This keeps the scripters from "script dumping" the loot into a packie

    2) the same distance requirement for EJ accounts (see #1)

    3) Make EACH character hit/damage/destroy an exterior barrel to even be able to come inside to destroy the interior barrels, OR EVEN BE ABLE to pick up/be traded loot from the idoc

    4) make it so that if you are "over weight" the items you would receive when you start emptying your backpack are deleted to keep ppl from hitting several barrels and collecting loot from all of them as they empty out their pack

    5) This is a big one! NO PLACEMENT OF HOUSING WITHIN 30 TILES OF AN IDOC. When a house turns "like new" house placement is automatically turned off until after the house falls and placement is available

    6) Have you actually thought of banning the scripters? It's always better to be proactive than reactive.

    More can be done, but these suggestions would be a good start!

    Can you please respond with the possibility/likelyhood of any of this coming to pass. As well as any information as too how much longer this will be tested, before going "live". Nothing has been said, and I really hope the plan isn't for this to go live this week without any changes!!! Thanks, and again, I applaud the effort, but some changes are needed if goal is to "level the playing field" between the scripters, and the players who DO play within the rules. As far as the skill needed, I have no problem with ANY of the skill requirements. Someone who spends the time to train up a character SHOULD have an advantage.

    Obviously, the best solution would be to ban the scripters, but, for whatever reason, that isn't happening!
    In order to prevent the use of "script dumping" on either Packies or EJ characters, why not introduce a more permanent solution to prevent the use of pack animals and EJ accounts by FLAGGING all items from an IDOC, with a timer under which these IDOC items would simply, FLAT OUT, NOT be possible to be placed on either an EJ character or on a Pack animal of any kind. The existance of the timer still running on that item would send out an error message saying "sorry, this item cannot be transferred to this character or to this pack animal....".

    The subscribed character would actually need to recall to House, Bank or a Ship, unload it, and get back to the area for more barrel punching thus giving time to other players to get some items on their own.

    After that timer lapses then everything would go back to normal but until the timer is still on, the game would simply REFUSE for the item to get into an EJ backpack or into that of a pack animal.

    I imagine that this could effectively address any scripting issue since it would not be possible to script a loot --> drop in packie/EJ character --> go back for more looting script..... 
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    Grace said:
    "Every char, even archers and crafters, should do the same damage."

    Cool so if they do that for IDOCS they should do it for every other scenario.  No skill needed. Everyone does the same damage.

    UO is about choices. You can't do everything on one char. I know many people get around that by taking oh, I don't know, three accounts to the same event. 
    I disagree.

    It is not possible to mix up IDOCs with the rest of the content.

    IDOCs, as I see them, are not regular gameplay on which one can count and organize one's own gameplay around.

    IDOCs are the "odd ball", the occasional bonus, unpredictable, unreliable.

    And, as I said, therefore iDOCs cannot be Designed in the line of the rest of the content but should have a particular Design that goes uniquely with them, and according to the Goal that the Developers want to reach through IDOCs.

    Personally, and I have stated my opinion several times now, I think that IDOCs should be Designed and regulated in a way to address their wealth ESPECIALLY to those who have less in Ultima Online, and not to those who already have plenty in Ultima Online.

    Of course, in order to reach this goal, consequentially, the related mechanics regulating IDOCs should NOT permit much more organized, well established and already wealthy UO players' characters to have the upper hand when it comes to getting IDOCs items as compared to much weaker and less whealty new or returning players' characters.

    And this, as I explained in a previous post, not only for Trammel ruleset facets but also for Felucca facets.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    Polaris said:
    No, they take archers to Em events... one with a dragon slayer, one with a demon slayer, and one with no slayer and an extra mod.

    In what scenario can you for see any blue, Tram, wrestler getting anything from a Felucca IDOC? No Tram player has ever gotten a single thing from Fel before unless they were hiding and stealthed. You cannot have stealth mastery active with the wrestling mastery. Blues do not kill other blues... so their wrestlers will be just fine.

    So we all need to have 2 out of our 7 characters be an IDOC character now? It sounds like you do not want new players going to IDOCs. Do not worry, the guy with 50 accounts is already making his 50 wrestlers....... you need not worry about that, I can assure you. All 50 will be stronger than any we can make. You like that idea, honestly? You want 100 Horrific Beasts with Wrestling Primer 3s at Tram castles now, honestly? Let's think this through some more.......
    You want 100 Horrific Beasts with Wrestling Primer 3s at Tram castles now, honestly? Let's think this through some more.......
    Just pay attention to General Chat, there is already a good number of wealthy, established players asking to buy Wrestling 3 Primers and offering very large amounts of gold which hardly any new or returning players' character could afford, on average.....

    I sure hope that this is not what the Developers want, for IDOCs mechanics, where always the same wealthier and more advanced and organized players' Characters get most if not all of the items from IDOC thus getting even more rich....

    I think that the "odd ball" of IDOCs wealth should be more likely to end up in poorer and weaker players' characters who need them the most rather then into the ends of players who already have more then plenty, in Ultima Online.

  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 224
    You guys are funny. Do your IDOCs in Tram! Fel is risk/reward. You should NOT have "safe" zones in Fel. Char setups SHOULD make a difference. Build a character that you want to Idoc with in Fel or get your friends/guild/alliances to help. Stay in Tram if that makes you feel uneasy. Why should all "new players" have a easy button? Earn your stripes!
  • GraceGrace Posts: 117
    edited March 1
    Polaris said:
    No, they take archers to Em events... one with a dragon slayer, one with a demon slayer, and one with no slayer and an extra mod.

    In what scenario can you for see any blue, Tram, wrestler getting anything from a Felucca IDOC? No Tram player has ever gotten a single thing from Fel before unless they were hiding and stealthed. You cannot have stealth mastery active with the wrestling mastery. Blues do not kill other blues... so their wrestlers will be just fine.

    So we all need to have 2 out of our 7 characters be an IDOC character now? It sounds like you do not want new players going to IDOCs. Do not worry, the guy with 50 accounts is already making his 50 wrestlers....... you need not worry about that, I can assure you. All 50 will be stronger than any we can make. You like that idea, honestly? You want 100 Horrific Beasts with Wrestling Primer 3s at Tram castles now, honestly? Let's think this through some more.......
    That is a multi player/scripter issue. Not an everyday single player issue.

    I don't understand your desire to punish non cheating players because of the scripter threat. 

    Seems like the Devs are making some steps forward to dealing with cheating the best they can
    while keeping the game interesting by adding new things. 

    In the meantime, go train up wrestling char if you want an edge as it is now useful just like other surprise skills being useful - Remove Trap.





  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 66
    edited March 2
    jelinidas said:
    You guys are funny. Do your IDOCs in Tram! Fel is risk/reward. You should NOT have "safe" zones in Fel. Char setups SHOULD make a difference. Build a character that you want to Idoc with in Fel or get your friends/guild/alliances to help. Stay in Tram if that makes you feel uneasy. Why should all "new players" have a easy button? Earn your stripes!
    Killing should be allowed. The problem is that the 3 PvP guilds are hardcore scripters. That is all they do is speed hack and script pots/throwing/bots. I have watched Felucca IDOCs for over 6 years on Atlantic and have earned my stripes.

    It's the same thing every time... the guilds (can focus on killing, NOT wrestling, they will never make a wrestler/Idocer to pvp with, that is untrue) will focus on PvP characters still. They will just be using BOTs to run in and script loot. The reds will defend their bots. All I am asking for is for all skills to be allowed so that we can still cast invisible, use stealth, and use hiding. Why do I have to make a melee character with 150 dex to try to go unarmed to an IDOC deathtrap??? Whoever designed that needs to think about it for us.
    Grace said:
    Polaris said:
    No, they take archers to Em events... one with a dragon slayer, one with a demon slayer, and one with no slayer and an extra mod.

    In what scenario can you for see any blue, Tram, wrestler getting anything from a Felucca IDOC? No Tram player has ever gotten a single thing from Fel before unless they were hiding and stealthed. You cannot have stealth mastery active with the wrestling mastery. Blues do not kill other blues... so their wrestlers will be just fine.

    So we all need to have 2 out of our 7 characters be an IDOC character now? It sounds like you do not want new players going to IDOCs. Do not worry, the guy with 50 accounts is already making his 50 wrestlers....... you need not worry about that, I can assure you. All 50 will be stronger than any we can make. You like that idea, honestly? You want 100 Horrific Beasts with Wrestling Primer 3s at Tram castles now, honestly? Let's think this through some more.......
    That is a multi player/scripter issue. Not an everyday single player issue.

    I don't understand your desire to punish non cheating players because of the scripter threat. 

    Seems like the Devs are making some steps forward to dealing with cheating the best they can
    while keeping the game interesting by adding new things. 

    In the meantime, go train up wrestling char if you want an edge as it is now useful just like other surprise skills being useful - Remove Trap.
    How am I wanting to punish non-cheating players? I am the one in this thread advocating for them. The guy with 50 accounts will have a whole guild full of reds protecting him while he loots.... and he will give them about 200m a week each of the profits.

    He already has 120 powerscrolls and primer 3's. He is the cheater. I do not want an "edge"... I do not want anyone to have an edge. It should be as open to new players as it is to old players with 50 accounts and a horde of 120 powerscrolls (and ghost cams mind you, to prevent others from getting them!)

    Horrific Beast at IDOCs is a dumb idea though...... plain and simple. Just change the IDOCs and let everyone go? Why were other decisions made regarding things. It always seems like there is a bone being thrown to the gold sellers, is all I am saying. Everyone is going to be a giant blue monster at IDOCs..... let that sink in. Now we will all just be giant blue monsters with 100% DI suits on melee characters..... the idea is dumb. Do not worry, we bought our primers the first night, we can easily make a 100% DI suit and be there with 150 dex if we so desire.... it doesn't hurt us one bit in Tram. It simply means turning Polaris (my IDOC char into my Tamer on Atlantic.) My museum decorator already has 120 tactics and 120 anatomy and will just change to wrestling instead of Fencing; I have to buy nothing. The problem is that they will be there with bots in Fel..... and the scripts will be running away.... and the reds will simply be there protecting their bots, like normal. 1000 people will still be paging saying they are using bots, ect.. ect... In fact, a whole slew of new trammel players will now get to see the cheating for themselves, trust me. If it goes through, there will be no Tram player ever getting items from Fel because they won't be able to hide or hit the barrels. It should be a no EQ zone... and skills should not matter. There shouldn't be houses being able to be placed within 30 tiles of the decaying houses either for them to script-unload to. You do not think you can "kill" someone walking into a fenced in area of barrels still with Flamestrike, Nervestrike, or a Sword? That is your fault if not, give me my chance to hide/stealth & fight back if I so choose.

    The established player with 50 primer III's and 150 - 120 powerscrolls will be there with 50 giant blue beasts all day long, don't worry. Will the new players get anything?? That's all I am saying. Why should it not be equal? Why should we have to change characters and buy yet more powerscrolls? Everyone is getting tired of "buying" stuff in Ultima. Why do 2 out of our 7 characters have to be IDOC characters now? Are we playing Ultima and fixing an IDOC problem.... or are we trying to get people to train up wrestling....... is all I am saying.

    [Edit - Even if you guys leave it as is, this is a huge help to everyone still; I do thank you. I just wish I did not have to rework all of my characters since IDOCs were changed, it seems bizarre that there is an IDOC character now.... I have no time or will to do such things any more. If I could simply go, it seemed kind of fun. I'm losing interest rapidly. Please think about some of what I have written though about how to make Fel, and indeed all IDOCs even more fair. Fair for new players is the key. They will take notice super fast if it is not fair.... because they will be there now too. They were never there before.]
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 224
    Ya know what, you could just skip Fel IDOCS. *what a concept*

    Here ya go...Why do I have to train up and scroll 10 different pets for different encounters? Shouldn't just one be enough? Shouldn't all the bosses and spawns be the same? I already bought one of each 120 scrolls for my beloved pet. Now I need more because one pet does not fit all?

    Stay in Tram or get more friends. They have proved time and time again they will not deal with the big scripters. They would rather pad their numbers with banning the lil guy macroing Spirit speak in their own houses. 

    Im guessing most of this is a done deal, just like the treasure hunting fiasco. 
  • sibblesibble Posts: 41
    edited March 2
    This instance of the test center was set up for Felucca testing, but I haven't seen any posts about anyone fighting over a fel idoc on test, only theories about how it might go.  Did anyone attend a pvp IDOC?
    All I can say is from whatever testing going on TC with fake loot may possibly be completely different from what is going to happen on live shards where people get to keep their loot.  More than likely people will come out of the woodworks and speak up after implementation and being affected on their live shard.

    My stance on Felucca IDOC PvP is logical, simple and doesn't require simulation.

    If the devs are trying to come up with ways to make it harder for scripters to get loot, then removing PVP is the worst thing you can do.  Bots don't win at PVP, players/guilds do.

    Regardless, the game originated on Felucca ruleset.  The world of Ultima Online was digitally duplicated to cater to people who don't want to PVP.  Now people want to throw in special circumstances to try and change Felucca ruleset?  Felucca ruleset should remain the same for IDOCs.  It attracts a lot of people and the combat that occurs there has been some of the best times I've had in this game.
  • PolarisPolaris Posts: 66
    jelinidas said:
    Ya know what, you could just skip Fel IDOCS. *what a concept*

    Here ya go...Why do I have to train up and scroll 10 different pets for different encounters? Shouldn't just one be enough? Shouldn't all the bosses and spawns be the same? I already bought one of each 120 scrolls for my beloved pet. Now I need more because one pet does not fit all?

    Stay in Tram or get more friends. They have proved time and time again they will not deal with the big scripters. They would rather pad their numbers with banning the lil guy macroing Spirit speak in their own houses. 

    Im guessing most of this is a done deal, just like the treasure hunting fiasco. 
    Animal taming was how I met my wife. But since the change... I have 0 pets finished and have not played my tamer since then. His suit is not even finished.... too much time and too much gold that I'm not paying anyone who gets powerscrolls. She has a Cu with 110 in all skills......

    If you could / can scroll out 10 different pets, then you are part of the problem... just saying.

    I am just saying I should not have to delete a character to do IDOCs is all I am saying. Wrestling just for IDOCs is worthless; I have not even IDOCed in 2 years and likely won't even after this change. The scripters already killed it for me.

    But when someone yells that there is a super castle falling in Fel.... it would be nice to take my stealther / hider is all I am saying. And horrific beast at Trammel IDOCs is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard of. It makes Ultima look like a clown show...... just saying. All players should be able to go, and do the exact same damage by punching.... weapon or no weapon. The idea of barreling items was miraculous. The idea of punching is not good.... just smack the barrel and get loot if you go. Why do people needs powerscrolls to help the cheaters all of a sudden? As I said, this affects me not in that sense.... but it does affect me in that I am losing a character. He already has 120 tactiics/anatomy.... I just have to change to wrestling and lose my fencer. How is he going to survive in Fel pvp with no weapon and unarmed with no skills? I don't know... I am guessing the red guy's bots will get it all.........
  • LobsterLobster Posts: 15
    edited March 2
    One more idea to slow scripters also to make the new idoc more fun.

    1. Fill the entire fenced area with barrels. Put barrels on all tiles within the fenced area regardless of the number of total items packed from the house. Players need to destroy at least one barrel each step forward. This could slow scripters a bit and also make it hard for players to hit multiple barrels quickly just to get the looting rights easily.

    2. Some barrels have items in them, some are just dummy and empty. They should look all same, and the mouse over property should only show "a barrel".

    3. This is the most important part. When a filled barrel get hit by a player first time, the barrel makes a sound effect. The player can see the barrel has items in it and not empty if the player hears the sound. The sound effect can only be played once when a barrel got hit first time and only the player who hit it can  hear the sound.  Why a sound effect ? Because scripted chars can't hear and recognize sounds while normal human players easily can. Can add a visual effect too for the hearing impaired and for players that prefer sounds turned off but the visual effect should be in a form that scripts can't recognize also the first hit player can only see the visual effect.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    jelinidas said:
    Ya know what, you could just skip Fel IDOCS. *what a concept*

    Here ya go...Why do I have to train up and scroll 10 different pets for different encounters? Shouldn't just one be enough? Shouldn't all the bosses and spawns be the same? I already bought one of each 120 scrolls for my beloved pet. Now I need more because one pet does not fit all?

    Stay in Tram or get more friends. They have proved time and time again they will not deal with the big scripters. They would rather pad their numbers with banning the lil guy macroing Spirit speak in their own houses. 

    Im guessing most of this is a done deal, just like the treasure hunting fiasco. 
    What one gets at an IDOC is unpredictable so, the more one does, the better (sounds ovvious, eh....?).

    So, if weaker and poorer players' character needed to get some luck at IDOCs, being able to participate to Felucca IDOCs along with Trammel IDOCs would give them more chances at getting a few items which they most need....

    Want me to give a more significative example among many that cold be possible ?

    Powerscrolls.....

    What is there which a new or returning player might need as THE MOST among all items ?

    Powerscrolls....

    And ain't it true that, being farmed, raided and fought over in Felucca (not in Trammel), the chances could be higher to get 1 or some from an IDOC in Felucca rather then inTrammel ?

    A Red cannot have a home in Trammel, perhaps might not even want to.... yet, it is highly likely that a Red would have quite a good stock of powerscrolls whether from doing Champs or raiding them.

    So, a new or returning players would have higher chances to get some Powerscrolls which they might more need at an IDOC Felucca rather then at a Trammel one.

    This, of course *IF* , to my opinion, the Developers, in their wisdom and judgement of what Goals they want to reach through IDOCs ( @Bleak , @Kyronix ?) will Design the IDOCs mechanics so that weaker, less advanced and less wealthy players' characters will be still able to participate to Felucca IDOCs , even when competing against way more advanced and wealthier players' characters.....

    Getting friends ?

    Sure, it is always a nice thing but guess what ? This is something more likely to be there for guess who ? Those more advanced, existing and wealthier players' characters who have been playing Ultima Online already for a consistent time....

    New and returning players would be at a gross disavantage here, also.... as whatever "new" friends they might make in UO would hardly match the friends that those players' characters already in Ultima Online for Years might already have....

    Personally, the way I see it, is that the "GODs" of Ultima Online, the Developers, should Design and create machanics which BALANCE OUT the game among players and not advantage a subset of players over another, worse, when the advantaged players were to be those who already have the most advanced characters, most wealth, most friends to play with, most everything....

    To my opinion, IDOCs mechanics should be aimed at BREAKING this Monopoly from existing, older and more advanced and wealthier players' characters, NOT further promote it.

    At least, that is the way I see it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    sibble said:
    This instance of the test center was set up for Felucca testing, but I haven't seen any posts about anyone fighting over a fel idoc on test, only theories about how it might go.  Did anyone attend a pvp IDOC?
    All I can say is from whatever testing going on TC with fake loot may possibly be completely different from what is going to happen on live shards where people get to keep their loot.  More than likely people will come out of the woodworks and speak up after implementation and being affected on their live shard.

    My stance on Felucca IDOC PvP is logical, simple and doesn't require simulation.

    If the devs are trying to come up with ways to make it harder for scripters to get loot, then removing PVP is the worst thing you can do.  Bots don't win at PVP, players/guilds do.

    Regardless, the game originated on Felucca ruleset.  The world of Ultima Online was digitally duplicated to cater to people who don't want to PVP.  Now people want to throw in special circumstances to try and change Felucca ruleset?  Felucca ruleset should remain the same for IDOCs.  It attracts a lot of people and the combat that occurs there has been some of the best times I've had in this game.
    Regardless, the game originated on Felucca ruleset.  The world of Ultima Online was digitally duplicated to cater to people who don't want to PVP.  Now people want to throw in special circumstances to try and change Felucca ruleset?  Felucca ruleset should remain the same for IDOCs.  It attracts a lot of people and the combat that occurs there has been some of the best times I've had in this game.
    I need to disagree.

    We are NOT talking about regular, ordinary gameplay content, IDOCs, to my opinion, is a particular content which cannot be mixed up with regular content as they are a special bonus, unpredictable, occasional.

    AND, furthermore, IDOCs could be just perfect to be Designed to be aimed at helping NEW or RETURNING players to get special and particular items which they would not be normally able to get, because of their high prices, to COVER and close that intimidating GAP which many of them face towards existing, older and more advanced and wealthier players' characters.

    An unpredictable bonus which new and returning players' characters could put to good use, way more then older, existing and more advanced and wealthier players' characters to "beat" that curse for Ultima Online which often sees new or returning players to play Ultima Online for 2-4 weeks, get intimidated by the GAP between their characters and those of existing, older and more advanced and wealthier players' characters, and quit playing UO althougether thus not helping the numbers of its players' base.....

    IDOCs, if well Designed to help these players, BOTH for Trammel AND Felucca ruleset facets, could be a BLESSING for new and returning players to help them get items which they extremely need, but cannot afford to buy in the game....

    So, I am sorry, but I need to disagree with you.

    IDOCs are not and cannot be considered regular gameplay content as the rest, they are unpredictable, special, and should be considered as such, as a "tool" to balance out new/returning players with older, existing ones, and help close that intimidating GAP in between them.

    That is at least how I see it.

  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 93
    If you dont need any skill to hit the barrels image the numbers of players attending a trammel castle idoc, everyone from every shard can be there and compete for the loot 1000+ players can easily try to attend and crashing the shard.

    In my opinion if you actually have to train some skills most players will just stick to idocs at there home shard/s.
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 224
    Popps...Im not going to get into a huge debate with you on this. You seem to have powerscrolls as your flavor of the moment so I will say this. Any new player on any shard that asks for powerscrolls will get them. I will gladly offer them for players or their pets. Granted, not 120s but at least 110s.

    There are very few skills that NEED 120s for players or pets. 110 kills shit just fine in PvM. Any new player is not really thinking PvP at this point. They are learning the game. By the time they are thinking PvP, they have friends that will help them gain (earn) the scrolls they need. 


    Fel is Fel. New players probably should not be there yet anyways. Stay in tram, learn the game. Its not like there wont be IDOCs where its safe.
  • RadstRadst Posts: 32
    Overall, this IDOC v3.0 is great, everyone has now equal chance of getting something.

    Most of the scripting will be gone; what's left of it will be dumping trash and unloading the goods. Bag of Sending and EJ Trade Bots will likely be used going forward to speed up the handling. But all in all, there is no more huge advantage as it was before.

    It is good that all resources (stacks and deeds) will be deleted. Too much resources has been farmed for nearly 20 years. We dont need those really.

    It is still unfortunate that the Devs chose not to pack the items into the owner's bank, which was a more popular choice for most players. Would love to hear Mesanna's thoughts on this matter as a whole.

    I agree that no templates/skills should matter to the unarmed damage. It should just be random. Going to be funny when everyone literally looks like noob miners again!

    However, I do not believe in "free lunch", especially this free lunch is so juicy and is the biggest "treasure hunt" in UO. Now EVERYONE WILL just sit and wait to be fed.

    Whats the best way for new players to make money now? IDOC for sure.

    And since the locations/time is now freely available via NPC, people will likely be doing full time IDOC and even on more shards, especially the barrels will stay until server downtime.

    This will happen and will not be healthy gameplay.


    As for FEL, saying "FEL is FEL...etc" is too cheap and too late as reasoning. Too much cheating has been done. You cannot ignore this. It's funny how people are not even mentioning the cheating. Unfortunately, no positive test result will also come from Fel side and the big cheating groups will continue to cheato when no one else can see them in action.
    It will be entirely up to the Devs to go ahead and implement right measures into the patch before too late.
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    Chrille said:
    If you dont need any skill to hit the barrels image the numbers of players attending a trammel castle idoc, everyone from every shard can be there and compete for the loot 1000+ players can easily try to attend and crashing the shard.

    In my opinion if you actually have to train some skills most players will just stick to idocs at there home shard/s.
    One thing is some minimal requirements, an ENTIRE other is to get a huge boost from being 120 scrolled, having Mastery 3s and all that which only existing, older, wealthier and more advanced players' characters can sport....
  • poppspopps Posts: 1,577
    edited March 2
    jelinidas said:
    Popps...Im not going to get into a huge debate with you on this. You seem to have powerscrolls as your flavor of the moment so I will say this. Any new player on any shard that asks for powerscrolls will get them. I will gladly offer them for players or their pets. Granted, not 120s but at least 110s.

    There are very few skills that NEED 120s for players or pets. 110 kills shit just fine in PvM. Any new player is not really thinking PvP at this point. They are learning the game. By the time they are thinking PvP, they have friends that will help them gain (earn) the scrolls they need. 


    Fel is Fel. New players probably should not be there yet anyways. Stay in tram, learn the game. Its not like there wont be IDOCs where its safe.
    Powerscrolls was only 1 example, one could mention others like Alacrities or Transcendence scrolls just as another example, which more likely drop in Felucca rather then Trammel.... or other examples as well...

    Sure, the difference is not "that" noticeable as with Powerscrolls but still, Felucca does yield them more likely as compared to Trammel... and these are fundamental for a new or returning player's character in need to train up skills....

    Thus, IDOCs in Felucca could more likely have drops of them as compared to IDOCs in Trammel...

    Frankly, I do not understand WHY there should be any interest at all, to have older, existing players' characters ALREADY all developed, scrolled up and pretty much having all the items that count, not to mention a good UO Bank account balance, to FURTHER be those most advantaged by IDOCs mechanics to get "MORE"....

    Wouldn't it, instead, be more beneficial to Ultima Online as a whole, if IDOCs related mechanics were Designed with a PARTICULAR interest towards those who have LESS, are less developed, less geared up etc. etc., the NEW and RETURNING PLAYERS who could then prticipate to IDOCs, Trammel and Felucca rulesets LIKEWISE, to better, more quickly advance their characters in Ultima Online getting expensive items from IDOCs which they would otherwise have lots of difficulties to get from regular gameplay ?

    I see IDOCs as a GREAT occasion, a great chance at helping out New and Returning players in their needs to give them good reasons to STAY with playing Ultima Online and thus help UO's Revenues with their monthly subscriptions, so much, that I do not see the point of why, instead, the Designed IDOCs mechanics should then instead favour more the "FITTEST" who, chances are, already have plenty and far beyond what is really needed to play Ultima Online.

    My point being, and I am sending out this plea and begging straight to the Developers of Ultima Online, @Bleak , @Kyronix@Mesanna , IN THE BEST INTEREST of Ultima Online as a whole, rather to have IDOCs mechanics which would favour those players' characters who already have plenty in Ultima Online, WHY NOT instead Design and implement mechanics which would offer a hand or two to NEW and RETURNING players' character who MOST would need items from IDOCs, regardless on whether from a Trammel or Felucca ruleset IDOC ?


  • UrgeUrge Posts: 596
    popps said:
    jelinidas said:
    Popps...Im not going to get into a huge debate with you on this. You seem to have powerscrolls as your flavor of the moment so I will say this. Any new player on any shard that asks for powerscrolls will get them. I will gladly offer them for players or their pets. Granted, not 120s but at least 110s.

    There are very few skills that NEED 120s for players or pets. 110 kills shit just fine in PvM. Any new player is not really thinking PvP at this point. They are learning the game. By the time they are thinking PvP, they have friends that will help them gain (earn) the scrolls they need. 


    Fel is Fel. New players probably should not be there yet anyways. Stay in tram, learn the game. Its not like there wont be IDOCs where its safe.
    Powerscrolls was only 1 example, one could mention others like Alacrities or Transcendence scrolls just as another example, which more likely drop in Felucca rather then Trammel.... or other examples as well...

    Sure, the difference is not "that" noticeable as with Powerscrolls but still, Felucca does yield them more likely as compared to Trammel... and these are fundamental for a new or returning player's character in need to train up skills....

    Thus, IDOCs in Felucca could more likely have drops of them as compared to IDOCs in Trammel...

    Frankly, I do not understand WHY there should be any interest at all, to have older, existing players' characters ALREADY all developed, scrolled up and pretty much having all the items that count, not to mention a good UO Bank account balance, to FURTHER be those most advantaged by IDOCs mechanics to get "MORE"....

    Wouldn't it, instead, be more beneficial to Ultima Online as a whole, if IDOCs related mechanics were Designed with a PARTICULAR interest towards those who have LESS, are less developed, less geared up etc. etc., the NEW and RETURNING PLAYERS who could then prticipate to IDOCs, Trammel and Felucca rulesets LIKEWISE, to better, more quickly advance their characters in Ultima Online getting expensive items from IDOCs which they would otherwise have lots of difficulties to get from regular gameplay ?

    I see IDOCs as a GREAT occasion, a great chance at helping out New and Returning players in their needs to give them good reasons to STAY with playing Ultima Online and thus help UO's Revenues with their monthly subscriptions, so much, that I do not see the point of why, instead, the Designed IDOCs mechanics should then instead favour more the "FITTEST" who, chances are, already have plenty and far beyond what is really needed to play Ultima Online.

    My point being, and I am sending out this plea and begging straight to the Developers of Ultima Online, @ Bleak , @ Kyronix , @ Mesanna , IN THE BEST INTEREST of Ultima Online as a whole, rather to have IDOCs mechanics which would favour those players' characters who already have plenty in Ultima Online, WHY NOT instead Design and implement mechanics which would offer a hand or two to NEW and RETURNING players' character who MOST would need items from IDOCs, regardless on whether from a Trammel or Felucca ruleset IDOC ?


    Because most of us have been grinding for 20+ years and expect others to do the same.

    There's an old saying about giving a hand up not a handout. The barrel thing is odd but it looks like it's going to even the field slightly. 

    You want stuff? Go grind for it like the rest of us have. 
  • jelinidasjelinidas Posts: 224
    Popps, will you be doing IDOCs?
  • Max_BlackoakMax_Blackoak Posts: 486
    @ Max_Blackoak
    There doesn't seem to be any rule against having a weapon in your pack. Can you not arm up and defend yourself it someone attacks you? 

    yes you can but by that time your opponent has gotten at least one, probably more hits in on you while you are completely defenseless, thus applying significant damage and debuffs like hit lower defense that will lower your chances to recover and strike back.
    I mean it's pretty obvious that you're at a disadvantage there isn't it?
  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 764
    Yes, I see that. I'm afraid I don't pvp, and since those that do seem to have declined to take up the opportunity to test that was obviously set up for them, I'm not sure what will happen when the thing goes world wide.  Actually I don't IDOC either, I've only gotten involved to help with testing. 
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