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ORE AND WOOD

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  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Butcher said:
    Bilbo I think you fail to understand that Deraj’s suggestions don’t really make life difficult for real players. I’m 100% on board with what he is saying and I feel that if mining was improved like that I would actually enjoy the process. For me all the supply and demand stuff makes sense but I can think of a million better ways to farm gold. It’s the journey that I want to be fun and comfortable as it should be 20 years later after the game was released. And I also think his suggestions would actually hurt bots a lot. I remember how risky it was to incorporate any walking into a script because the chance for something to go wrong goes through the roof. A lag, a monster, a wandering healer, another player happening to be standing on a tile on your way and your entire script could be derailed. Because every step of the route is preprogrammed and your bot is not equipped with the ability to walk around something and get back on track. That’s how it used to be a few years ago. I doubt that much has changed since then.
    So walking all the way across UO will be so much fun then please by all means walk all you want and I am so glad that you all have all the time in the world to play UO.  Lets just do away with recall/gate travel all together and make everybody walk, won't that be fun.  Here is a thought why not have UO enforce the rules and stop punishing the honest players with all these "FIXES"  By all means lets just make it more tedious for the honest player to go anywhere, now that will sure make people happy.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    AQHF said:
    Being required to use pack animals and walk sloooowly over long distances to get to and from mining would bore the heck out of me and make mining unfun. I am fine for it being an option for other people if they d find it fun, but I also tried the pack animal thing in my early days of mining and I really disliked it. I ended up stabling my two pack horses and getting a riding horse and galloping between my mining spot and forge. Having to walk at such an excruciating slow pace is so... excruciating.
    AMEN  BUT BUT BUT this really helps the "HONEST" player LOL
  • DerajDeraj Posts: 88
    AQHF said:
    Being required to use pack animals and walk sloooowly over long distances to get to and from mining would bore the heck out of me and make mining unfun. I am fine for it being an option for other people if they d find it fun, but I also tried the pack animal thing in my early days of mining and I really disliked it. I ended up stabling my two pack horses and getting a riding horse and galloping between my mining spot and forge. Having to walk at such an excruciating slow pace is so... excruciating.
    Believe me when I say your response is like a breath of fresh air. Okay, so having to walk back and forth, back and forth, can become tedious. This is an excellent point. Since we are entertaining hypotheticals however, let's ask ourselves, how can that be streamlined or improved upon? There have been a few interesting ideas. One user mentioned being able to build a temporary forge that lasts for x amount of time or y amount of uses. Kyronix hypothesized something about mining and lumber camps (although I don't know exactly what he had in mind, it sounds like his idea involves setting up areas near mountains for easier access to forges). For my own part I suggested possibly retaining fire beetle's ability to smelt, but on a more limited basis, with a cost for their convenience.

    Here is another idea. Recalled ores yield less ingots. Or look at ways to improve pack horses so they can keep pace with miners and run with them depending on how much load they are bearing. Consider the blue beetle for a moment. It can hold items, but if it gets close to its weight limit, it won't be able to run when you are riding it - this is an example of this principle already existing in the game. My question to you, AQHF, is if the devs did decide to ruin UO by implementing my wretched ideas, what would be your suggestions on how to make walking to forges less tedious?

    (and on a slightly different note, let me acknowledge that my using the word "walk" a lot when referencing "walk to the forge" is probably not the best word for this. For my own part, going back between the mountain the forge in past days involved a lot of running with my pack horses, so I don't mean to imply that the miners should have to literally walk and am sorry if that has caused any confusion)
  • ButcherButcher Posts: 28
    Why not mine not too far from forges? For example there’s that cave near Minoc that we all know about. It’s a matter of one monitor distance.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Butcher said:
    Why not mine not too far from forges? For example there’s that cave near Minoc that we all know about. It’s a matter of one monitor distance.
    First I would have to walk to Minoc and then over to the cave, oh wait I have to wait my turn to mine that cave because everybody else is there waiting their turn.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Deraj said:
    AQHF said:
    Being required to use pack animals and walk sloooowly over long distances to get to and from mining would bore the heck out of me and make mining unfun. I am fine for it being an option for other people if they d find it fun, but I also tried the pack animal thing in my early days of mining and I really disliked it. I ended up stabling my two pack horses and getting a riding horse and galloping between my mining spot and forge. Having to walk at such an excruciating slow pace is so... excruciating.
    Believe me when I say your response is like a breath of fresh air. Okay, so having to walk back and forth, back and forth, can become tedious. This is an excellent point. Since we are entertaining hypotheticals however, let's ask ourselves, how can that be streamlined or improved upon? There have been a few interesting ideas. One user mentioned being able to build a temporary forge that lasts for x amount of time or y amount of uses. Kyronix hypothesized something about mining and lumber camps (although I don't know exactly what he had in mind, it sounds like his idea involves setting up areas near mountains for easier access to forges). For my own part I suggested possibly retaining fire beetle's ability to smelt, but on a more limited basis, with a cost for their convenience.

    Here is another idea. Recalled ores yield less ingots. Or look at ways to improve pack horses so they can keep pace with miners and run with them depending on how much load they are bearing. Consider the blue beetle for a moment. It can hold items, but if it gets close to its weight limit, it won't be able to run when you are riding it - this is an example of this principle already existing in the game. My question to you, AQHF, is if the devs did decide to ruin UO by implementing my wretched ideas, what would be your suggestions on how to make walking to forges less tedious?

    (and on a slightly different note, let me acknowledge that my using the word "walk" a lot when referencing "walk to the forge" is probably not the best word for this. For my own part, going back between the mountain the forge in past days involved a lot of running with my pack horses, so I don't mean to imply that the miners should have to literally walk and am sorry if that has caused any confusion)
    So the casual player takes time out of their limited time to walk to their fav cave or recalls for less ingots.  Most UO players have a limited amount of time to play UO per week and they do other things besides gathering resources and you want to either give them less time or if recall used give them less ingots.  You do understand that a mining bot mines 23 hrs a day 7 days a week and yes they may get less ingots over the entire week but the casual player also gets less ingots at the same % so who do you think you are really hurting.  The script miner could care less because his market value is going up and the casual player has less time to play other stuff in UO making his UO experience just that more enjoyable.  BOTs do not care about time where honest players do.  Lets punish the "HONEST" player even more.  Keep going with all these great ideas.
  • DerajDeraj Posts: 88
    So the casual player takes time out of their limited time to walk to their fav cave or recalls for less ingots.  Most UO players have a limited amount of time to play UO per week and they do other things besides gathering resources and you want to either give them less time or if recall used give them less ingots.
    I am all too aware of the limits of playtime many players have, but you are overestimating the amount of time involved in this. Depending on where you are, the time could vary. If you are mining at the Minoc mines, your time is shorter. The result is that you might see more people walking around competing for ore. If you want to find some better spots you might walk to Crescent Mountain - a little farther away, but more and better ore is the reward for the inconvenience. If we take into account other possible ideas for how to provide ways to handle the logistical problem of transporting ore, we can add actual dimension to the game where currently there is none. I will say what I said at the very start, that there is no single-solution bandaid that can be applied to solve the mining problem. It requires a comprehensive approach and in order to even begin thinking comprehensively we have to use our imagination to consider what an end result could look like.
    You do understand that a mining bot mines 23 hrs a day 7 days a week and yes they may get less ingots over the entire week but the casual player also gets less ingots at the same % so who do you think you are really hurting.

    You are incorrect here. Boil down my ideas and what you are left with is "trading inconveniences". I am suggesting that players and scripters alike take on the inconvenience of transporting their ore by foot, while at the same time giving both players and scripters the convenience of auto-mine and auto-fill. The transport-by-foot principle is a significantly larger hit against the efficiency of scripting than whatever small bonus auto-mine and auto-fill provides them. Players, on the other hand, can utterly destroy any bot in the logistical department, whereas they will have a lot more trouble competing when it comes to the small mundane stuff like clicking the rocks, moving the ore, combining ores, and recalling around.

    Both players and scripters will experience lower yields in the grand scheme. Scripters, however, are hurt much more than players are by my ideas, and the lower yields helps increase the value of ores for players who are interested in adventure.

    The script miner could care less because his market value is going up and the casual player has less time to play other stuff in UO making his UO experience just that more enjoyable.
    Scripting is less efficient under my suggestions, yields drop, ore is more valuable for everyone. Greater value draws True and Honest™ players and scripters alike. Scripters will have more trouble dealing with the logistical problems of carrying ore than players. The players have the real advantage in this scenario.
    BOTs do not care about time where honest players do.  Lets punish the "HONEST" player even more.  Keep going with all these great ideas.

    Once again I pose the question that you are attempting to escape. Fill in the blank:

    "Cheating is detrimental to UO because ______________"

    I know what my answer is, and I've stated it multiple times. I want to know what your answer is.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    LMAO You seriously believe this will "FIX" the scripters oh wait the honest players are also punished.  YEP YEP YEP this will sure take care of the pesky scripters who could care less because they are not sitting there playing a diluted version of UO.  where are the pom pom at.
  • ButcherButcher Posts: 28
    Bilbo said:
    Butcher said:
    Why not mine not too far from forges? For example there’s that cave near Minoc that we all know about. It’s a matter of one monitor distance.
    First I would have to walk to Minoc and then over to the cave, oh wait I have to wait my turn to mine that cave because everybody else is there waiting their turn.
    Come on man, you know there are other places.  You’re making it seem a much larger problem than it really is. For example back in the day I used to mine mountain slopes at the gypsy camp near the entrance to central Ilshenar. Not only do you get your forge few tiles away there, there’s also even a bank wagon there. It’s not the end of the world for real players, but scripting walking anywhere is a nightmare.
  • DrowyDrowy Posts: 131
    The scripters already hoarded so much ore and wood, so best way to hurt them, is to give honest players an easy way to get the desired ore and wood. So just turn back on static ore and wood  spots. I am fine if they are different to the old ones, but I also think Heartwood, Bloodwood and Frostwood need a little bumb in percentage of their existence. Dont make it too complicated. Honest miners and lumberjacks want an easy solution and this would be the easiest.
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Drowy said:
    The scripters already hoarded so much ore and wood, so best way to hurt them, is to give honest players an easy way to get the desired ore and wood. So just turn back on static ore and wood  spots. I am fine if they are different to the old ones, but I also think Heartwood, Bloodwood and Frostwood need a little bumb in percentage of their existence. Dont make it too complicated. Honest miners and lumberjacks want an easy solution and this would be the easiest.
    OMG Someone that uses their brain, THANK YOU.  No they would rather punish the honest player even more in the hopes that it will "FIX" UO and we all know how that has turned out every time UO has tried to "FIX" UO.
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    Drowy said:
    The scripters already hoarded so much ore and wood, so best way to hurt them, is to give honest players an easy way to get the desired ore and wood. So just turn back on static ore and wood  spots. I am fine if they are different to the old ones, but I also think Heartwood, Bloodwood and Frostwood need a little bumb in percentage of their existence. Dont make it too complicated. Honest miners and lumberjacks want an easy solution and this would be the easiest.

      Sums it up very nicely :) 
  • SyncrosSyncros Posts: 116
    After doing some LJ'ing and mining since returning to the game I can say LJ have it easy compared to miners (still).  

    If I were to change anything it would be going back to semi-static locations and making mining give you 1 to 1 ore/ingots and lose 2-4 of the current ore styles you can mine.  There's no reason to have so many different styles of the same ore that gives you the same end result.

    Scripters will always be a problem and especially since nothing is done to curb that issue since the only way they get caught is if a GM cant clue in to the script running. 
  • Maximus_NeximusMaximus_Neximus Posts: 380
    Drowy said:
    The scripters already hoarded so much ore and wood, so best way to hurt them, is to give honest players an easy way to get the desired ore and wood. So just turn back on static ore and wood  spots. I am fine if they are different to the old ones, but I also think Heartwood, Bloodwood and Frostwood need a little bumb in percentage of their existence. Dont make it too complicated. Honest miners and lumberjacks want an easy solution and this would be the easiest.
    Agreed.
  • Lady_StormLady_Storm Posts: 400

    Ok ok ... stop right there.

    First I refuse to walk to mine any shard or facit much less trek the wilds of UO to get at ore. PERIOD!    I know its my character that does the moving but my old body in UO is like my own  I have earned the right to pop in and do my thing in peace. 

    Idk about you, but I have rarely seen a scripter any more... You seen many resource vendors again???  Not me. 

    Its hard as all hadies to get stuff as it is  your talking about making it harder on all of us for a handful of scripters.  All I want is ore to be more like the old days and stick to a spot  if I cant get that up all the ore duration in one location except iron that stays way too long in one place as it is. Meaning if a cave has 10 mining spots you can dig most times 7 of the 10 are iron... if you mine the other 3 you have a chance to get maybe 18 to 30 of a color ...mind you I say maybe.. I have gone to many colored spots and got 2 full ore of color and the rest iron.... PFFT...  Perhaps drop the iron from the color digging and up the areas of color to the full 30 count...  

    But Stop the darn walking bit  My character is too old to walk all over UO

     

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    @Lady_Storm :)
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    edited March 2018
     Truth is no one is Big Time Scripting resources anymore, hundreds of millions of every color wood and ore were extracted to build giant stock piles and if a RMT runs low they just dupe up a few hundred million more :)
  • RichardAlpert2018RichardAlpert2018 Posts: 11
    no way, is static a better system but for them in large numbers to sit on it and gain.  as long as it moves  every 3rd dig,  as  it use to be, is the only way it should be.  same with wood, with a bump  of an extra harvest  or two in certain locations that has a theme. 
  • RichardAlpert2018RichardAlpert2018 Posts: 11
    edited March 2018
    if you want to be ganked in fell just instate static ore locations, the fact this provokes 6 pages of responses  because you are all invested... thus no reason for any shortages of ingots, break  out the ol' pickaxe and get to digging.  scriptures are going to script and will get caught. if not atleast make it harder for them...scripters once set into motion cant think and plot...  but we can...
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    "scriptures are going to script and will get caught. "

      That is some Real Humor you got going on there :)   
  • RichardAlpert2018RichardAlpert2018 Posts: 11
    Lol, dang missed that one ** scripters **
  • FaerylFaeryl Posts: 273
    So, just a small little addition... To all those complaining about having to walk forever to a forge if they did anything about fire beetles or recalling or whatever... FYI one of the rewards from doing the Void Pool is a four hour temporary forge that doesn't require a house. So there's already a viable option. Not to mention it would possibly get people doing the Void Pool again.
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