ORE AND WOOD

Pawain

Bilbo said:

why not move everything over so I can shut down all my accounts and be done with it.

No. She said the high end stuff in Eodon and Ilsh. And then other spots where you can not gate or mark a rune like Fel or Tram areas that have no rune marking.

I mine in Fel Delucia.  Ilsh is already good for mining, it counts as a dungeon. 

I like her idea. It would also test the recall scripting theory.

Tyrath

 Eodon and Ilsh are not fel   And removing the recall aspect by utilizing those areas and I would add the abyss would really poop on the recall scripters parade.

Bilbo

Here is an idea how about UO get GMs that know what a script resource bot looks like (the players know), put resources back the way they were and enforce their rules.  Oh wait that means they might have to do something.  Enforcing the RULES that we all agreed to fixes the problem everything else is a work around for scripters and a slap in the face to honest players

Patricia

I like that idea MissE....put them in no recall zones and stop the recall scripters anyway...and yes most of us crafters gather in Fel anyway because of the double resources so the only thing that would hurt would be the scripters....make it so!

Bilbo

Patricia said:

I like that idea MissE....put them in no recall zones and stop the recall scripters anyway...and yes most of us crafters gather in Fel anyway because of the double resources so the only thing that would hurt would be the scripters....make it so!

Speak for yourself because the resource gathers I know do so in Tram.

Patricia

then they are doing it wrong? OMG how can you not gather in fel for the double resources? That's such a waste of time gathering anywhere else

Bilbo

Patricia said:

then they are doing it wrong? OMG how can you not gather in fel for the double resources? That's such a waste of time gathering anywhere else

OMG I don't play UO like you do I must be a bad player. LMAO I didn't know there was only one way to play UO

MissE

Bilbo said:

MissE said:

@ Kyronix How about we put all the rare resources into Ilshenar/Valley of Eodon and dungeons in Felucca.  If they can't recall in lets see how it goes.

Make Trammel and Fel overland forest only have wood and oak.  Make all forests in Ilshenar/VoE have a much higher % of rare woods from Ash up to Frostwood.

Likewise, overland mining spots just iron and pershaps dull copper.  Dungeons in Tram the same unless there is no in or recall out, shadow and above ores everywhere in Ilshenar, Valley of Eodon, and in all Fel dungeons and at higher % than currently exists.

Most people already only gather in Felucca anyways on prodo shards, those training can do that just as well in Ilshenar/VoE as in Trammel/Fel.

That is one solution to even up the availability and keeping it random if you don't wanna just put it back to how it was.

It would stop everyone recalling in but you can recall out of Ilsh on prodo, as for siege, where I play it would be a bit more of a pain to get out but I can live with that if the rates were upped so that you had a decent chance of getting the rarer resources. 

I would be happy with this solution.

REALLY  You want all the high end stuff Fel only, why not move everything over so I can shut down all my accounts and be done with it.

You didn't read what I posted, Fel AND ILSHENAR AND VALLEY OF EODON.  Read again.

Sheesh, and I said increase the drop rate of the rares in all those locations so basically you can mine or chop in Ilsh/Valley of Eodon to your hearts content and you can even recall out of Ilsh.  NOWHERE did I say FEL only. Plain wood and oak, iron ore and dull can stay in the whole lands. The tokono mines would also be a candidate for the rare ores as you can't recall out of there either from memory. 
 

Skett

Are there really that many scripters left ? 

Most shards are empty.

put it back how it was static so we can use are old rune books again 

jmi 

Tyrath

Skett said:

Are there really that many scripters left ? 

Most shards are empty.

put it back how it was static so we can use are old rune books again 

jmi 

 I can't speak to LJ  scripters but there are more Mining scripters than legit miners by a long shot.  I spend quite a bit of time in the Orc Mine on various shards and on a couple of the deadest shards there is always 2-3 script miners bouncing around in there with a junk lrc suit and a orc mask.  Only thing I like about them is they pop niter deposits and their script doesn't mine them.  Other shards it is the Brit mine,  yet other shards the script hot spots are the long tunnels in malas.  Fel side the brit mine, and all of the little pocket caves around covetous, fire island, and destard seem to be the script sweet spots.   The ones I find most interesting are the ones that place a house next a mountain and wall mine 23/7 from inside the house, never leaving the house, I run across those mostly on Siege though.

  That being said there are a lot less than there were even 5 years ago but I suspect that has to do with the over all population decline.  The shard of the dead though are where they farm and all roads lead back to Atlantic.  Or the RMT stores that deliver to any shard.   Same as any other resource or high end item. 

Patricia

Bilbo said:

Patricia said:

then they are doing it wrong? OMG how can you not gather in fel for the double resources? That's such a waste of time gathering anywhere else

OMG I don't play UO like you do I must be a bad player. LMAO I didn't know there was only one way to play UO

Never said their was....just that mining double resources seems like a no-brainer to me...but if you wanna waste time/shovels/etc. spending twice as much time...more power to ya!

@MissE I wonder if the coding would allow for that? And how hard it would be to code in to just have the lower end resources spawn in certain areas and the high end ones only in non-recall locations...but I really like that idea and I hope they put it on ~The List~ of things to consider!

Cookie

Just a few personal comments to add to the bits said.

• I think the BOD system is fine, I enjoy it, it's like the Taming system - one of the few systems that works ok. My only issue, would be for Crafting itself to be boosted, to give the final BOD rewards more use. There is no point getting overly hung up on small-scale issues.
• I have no issue with the current style of gathering resources, in terms of clicking for lumberjacking, or mining, I enjoy both, they are relaxing after a hard days work, and tough evenings PvP.
• Fire beetles are really useful, there would be no benefit getting rid of these, they make mining far more player friendly.
• A good way to reduce scripting gains, would be to move all valuable resources to Felucca/Illshenar/Valley of Eodon - Non Recall or PKable locations like the above poster said.
• I don't think we should go back to Static Resources - it allows active players and scripters to monopolize nodes, and gives your average player no chance. Random is fine, my only issue being that higher end ores/wood seem to be extremely hard to get hold of - via what should be their main gathering methods.

Tyrath

Patricia said:

Bilbo said:

Patricia said:

then they are doing it wrong? OMG how can you not gather in fel for the double resources? That's such a waste of time gathering anywhere else

OMG I don't play UO like you do I must be a bad player. LMAO I didn't know there was only one way to play UO

Never said their was....just that mining double resources seems like a no-brainer to me...but if you wanna waste time/shovels/etc. spending twice as much time...more power to ya!

@ MissE I wonder if the coding would allow for that? And how hard it would be to code in to just have the lower end resources spawn in certain areas and the high end ones only in non-recall locations...but I really like that idea and I hope they put it on ~The List~ of things to consider!

  If you are gathering fel is better if you are training LJ or mining Tram is better.  And a whole lot of people simply are not going to step foot in fel and that is fine.  Either side tram or fel, trying to get the ore you want or need is pointless........ But there is granite and saltpeter.  But we come back to mining and LJ was NOT broken until the Dev flavor of the day back then fixed it.  Can't be mad at the Dev teams since that time for breaking mining and LJ, just for not returning it to how it was which every serious miner and LJ has been asking for since they broke/fixed mining and LJ.

Deraj

Tyrath said:

I have not seen a script beetle miner or a rail miner in years on prodo. Still see and kill railers with beetles on Siege and even back when I did see one they were rare.  What I did and still do see are recall miners and LJs that bounce from resource to that house in the middle of nowhere with a 1 million+ stone box on the edge of it.   If scripting with a fire beetle was effective every script miner would be using it.... and the simple fact is no script miner is using a beetle.

I don't doubt that many script miners forgo the beetle. I am telling you and everyone else here that I have seen it. Using a beetle likely depends on how the individual scripter prefers to harvest, but using a beetle makes the progress far more efficient. Consider the steps involved: recall to mining spot, begin automated-mining - but what happens when the weight limit is reached? At this point you have to recall back to your house and use a forge, then stash the ingots. But then what? Recall back to the spot? How many times will you have to recall away from a single spot before depleting it, and how much time is wasted in doing so? Or will you recall to a different spot and forgo the remaining ore? What if it was a valorite spot you are leaving behind? The irony is that the beetle-less situation accomplishes exactly what I suppose it would - it lowers the overall yield by making the script miner go back to a forge.

In the alternative situation, a beetle allows the miner to smelt on the go. They can go from spot to spot without having to go home - going home only to stash ingots and gems. This means more mine time. More yield. And with randomized ores, numbers is what it's all about. In this case it's no different from lumberjacking where all you have to do to process the raw material is use an axe on it.

Again, the decision to use a beetle may vary from scripter to scripter. Perhaps the biggest downside of the beetle is the risk of the beetle getting killed, which completely derails the process. Not having a beetle prevents that.

Yes, some scripters don't use beetles. Some do.

Patricia

most of them don't...if you go around and look at the containers on the front steps/porches of the scripting houses they are like 82786867863 stones in weight..they don't smelt the ore they just dump it and have another script to smelt it later, that saves time.

Tyrath

Deraj said:

Tyrath said:

I have not seen a script beetle miner or a rail miner in years on prodo. Still see and kill railers with beetles on Siege and even back when I did see one they were rare.  What I did and still do see are recall miners and LJs that bounce from resource to that house in the middle of nowhere with a 1 million+ stone box on the edge of it.   If scripting with a fire beetle was effective every script miner would be using it.... and the simple fact is no script miner is using a beetle.

I don't doubt that many script miners forgo the beetle. I am telling you and everyone else here that I have seen it. Using a beetle likely depends on how the individual scripter prefers to harvest, but using a beetle makes the progress far more efficient. Consider the steps involved: recall to mining spot, begin automated-mining - but what happens when the weight limit is reached? At this point you have to recall back to your house and use a forge, then stash the ingots. But then what? Recall back to the spot? How many times will you have to recall away from a single spot before depleting it, and how much time is wasted in doing so? Or will you recall to a different spot and forgo the remaining ore? What if it was a valorite spot you are leaving behind? The irony is that the beetle-less situation accomplishes exactly what I suppose it would - it lowers the overall yield by making the script miner go back to a forge.

In the alternative situation, a beetle allows the miner to smelt on the go. They can go from spot to spot without having to go home - going home only to stash ingots and gems. This means more mine time. More yield. And with randomized ores, numbers is what it's all about. In this case it's no different from lumberjacking where all you have to do to process the raw material is use an axe on it.

Again, the decision to use a beetle may vary from scripter to scripter. Perhaps the biggest downside of the beetle is the risk of the beetle getting killed, which completely derails the process. Not having a beetle prevents that.

Yes, some scripters don't use beetles. Some do.

OK here is how the most popular recall script works and all of the other scripts are pretty much based off of it, and just have a few more bells and whistles.

 Recalls or SJ (You Pick)  to the location mines or LJs up to 90% of the weight you can carry.

Recalls/SJ to house or bank and dumps into the secure

Recalls/SJ to the next rune in the book repeats. 

The basics script requires a 100LRC or a lot of tithing points,  enough tinkering to make shovels/picks.  The script does a check on the tools and makes more tinker tools and shovels/pics as needed.  The script does a weight check every time a ore or log is mined.  The script only mines or chops a location dry if the weight % is not exceeded. 

 Later scripts added a constant area scan that makes the toon hide and stop mining or recall if another player is detected approaching.  Some versions added stopping and saying hello to another player or GM.  Others added just randomly talking every few minutes. Some are private scripts not found in any PSL that are heavily customized to perform several other functions. 

 The mining with a beetle and LJ with a beetle were written for the casual player that just did not like all of the clicking involved and for Siege scripters to work with a rail to a house or through a moongate to Luna or Zento bank. 

  The recall scripts bring in ore at about 10-1 and are FAST VS the gathering with a beetle.

 The beetle scripts are area scanners that mine or LJ a area dry and the beetle scripts are worthless for unattended as the bugs will constantly get whacked by any spawn thus causing the script to stop.    They are pretty much obsolete even on siege except for a rail around a house. Replaced with the rail that uses hiding and stealth to just go to the bank or house undetected.  Using the beetle scripts on siege just tells everyone there is someone scripting and stealthing and puts a big please kill me sign on them.

  So what you saw were probably scripters but just the poor schmuck trying to get enough ore for their own use, not one of the pro miners feeding the RMT or Ingame ore and wood brokers....... which in turn feed the RMT gold sellers.

  ANd yes I know a whole lot about scripts and how they work and NO I have never used a script or even UOA on OSI servers.

MissE

Tyrath said:

 Eodon and Ilsh are not fel   And removing the recall aspect by utilizing those areas and I would add the abyss would really poop on the recall scripters parade.

Yeah I forgot the Abyss, can put the high end ores there as well as Fel Dungeons, Fel Lost Lands, Ilshenar, Valley of Eodon.  Think the Yomotsu Mines in Tokuno, Wrong Dungeon Tram are also no recall 'in' zones. 

It would be really simple to make it that all the high end stuff could be in no recall 'in' zones. While the basic ores/wood remain in Tram. 

I would rather they put it back to static locations but if the reason they won't is due to 'scripters' then make it so it is the real miners/lumberjacks can find the stuff and put it in non-recall areas and UP THE RATE of the resource nodes so it isn't such a hit and miss when it comes to random stuff. There are lots of non recall areas that are NOT in fel to cater to the newbie or those who don't wanna go to fel.

Deraj

Tyrath said:

Deraj said:

Tyrath said:

I have not seen a script beetle miner or a rail miner in years on prodo. Still see and kill railers with beetles on Siege and even back when I did see one they were rare.  What I did and still do see are recall miners and LJs that bounce from resource to that house in the middle of nowhere with a 1 million+ stone box on the edge of it.   If scripting with a fire beetle was effective every script miner would be using it.... and the simple fact is no script miner is using a beetle.

I don't doubt that many script miners forgo the beetle. I am telling you and everyone else here that I have seen it. Using a beetle likely depends on how the individual scripter prefers to harvest, but using a beetle makes the progress far more efficient. Consider the steps involved: recall to mining spot, begin automated-mining - but what happens when the weight limit is reached? At this point you have to recall back to your house and use a forge, then stash the ingots. But then what? Recall back to the spot? How many times will you have to recall away from a single spot before depleting it, and how much time is wasted in doing so? Or will you recall to a different spot and forgo the remaining ore? What if it was a valorite spot you are leaving behind? The irony is that the beetle-less situation accomplishes exactly what I suppose it would - it lowers the overall yield by making the script miner go back to a forge.

In the alternative situation, a beetle allows the miner to smelt on the go. They can go from spot to spot without having to go home - going home only to stash ingots and gems. This means more mine time. More yield. And with randomized ores, numbers is what it's all about. In this case it's no different from lumberjacking where all you have to do to process the raw material is use an axe on it.

Again, the decision to use a beetle may vary from scripter to scripter. Perhaps the biggest downside of the beetle is the risk of the beetle getting killed, which completely derails the process. Not having a beetle prevents that.

Yes, some scripters don't use beetles. Some do.

OK here is how the most popular recall script works and all of the other scripts are pretty much based off of it, and just have a few more bells and whistles.

 Recalls or SJ (You Pick)  to the location mines or LJs up to 90% of the weight you can carry.

Recalls/SJ to house or bank and dumps into the secure

Recalls/SJ to the next rune in the book repeats. 

The basics script requires a 100LRC or a lot of tithing points,  enough tinkering to make shovels/picks.  The script does a check on the tools and makes more tinker tools and shovels/pics as needed.  The script does a weight check every time a ore or log is mined.  The script only mines or chops a location dry if the weight % is not exceeded. 

 Later scripts added a constant area scan that makes the toon hide and stop mining or recall if another player is detected approaching.  Some versions added stopping and saying hello to another player or GM.  Others added just randomly talking every few minutes. Some are private scripts not found in any PSL that are heavily customized to perform several other functions. 

 The mining with a beetle and LJ with a beetle were written for the casual player that just did not like all of the clicking involved and for Siege scripters to work with a rail to a house or through a moongate to Luna or Zento bank. 

  The recall scripts bring in ore at about 10-1 and are FAST VS the gathering with a beetle.

 The beetle scripts are area scanners that mine or LJ a area dry and the beetle scripts are worthless for unattended as the bugs will constantly get whacked by any spawn thus causing the script to stop.    They are pretty much obsolete even on siege except for a rail around a house. Replaced with the rail that uses hiding and stealth to just go to the bank or house undetected.  Using the beetle scripts on siege just tells everyone there is someone scripting and stealthing and puts a big please kill me sign on them.

  So what you saw were probably scripters but just the poor schmuck trying to get enough ore for their own use, not one of the pro miners feeding the RMT or Ingame ore and wood brokers....... which in turn feed the RMT gold sellers.

  ANd yes I know a whole lot about scripts and how they work and NO I have never used a script or even UOA on OSI servers.

Don't worry, unlike other users on this forum, I will not make any baseless assumptions about you or anyone else.

I cannot comment on Siege, because I do not play there. I will concede one error in my previous assessment of non-beetle scripting, which is that it does make much more sense to dump the raw resources and continue mining. However, I still do not believe it is faster. Every time you recall back to the house is time not spent mining. Plus you are moving potentially 3-6 piles of ore on every return, which add up quickly as you recall back each time. Consolidating house returns and item moves (through ore smelted into ingots) is the logical way to improve output.

Mine > Smelt > Recall to next spot > Repeat until bag is full, recall to house and unload

(Yes, the unload phase will last a little bit longer than if you were to recall back after every spot because there is more to unload, but it's less clicks/actions overall.)

I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced that non-beetle script mining produces more. There are risks as you said, such as the beetle being killed. But this can be fairly easy to avoid if you pick your spots carefully.

AQHF

I think a lot of people situated their houses by remote mountains so they could mine. It will suck if suddenly their house location is rendered meaningless by the removal of all upper end ore. Requiring a long trek to get ore and possibly rendering their mining template ineffective doesn't sound like it is promoting fun to me, or leading to more people mining.

I do like the idea of increasing the time that a vein stays. This would be a payoff for those that actively prospect.

Perhaps we could do double ore in areas where teleport is not allowed. That way those who do the trek get rewarded.

How about if a miner is digging, they can randomly get a map with a 10 minute timer: "You spot a formation of perfect emeralds nearby"-- act on the map, or it goes poof.

SwordofExcalibur

I vote yes on the recurring non-Recall area theme.  It makes sense.

Tyrath

MissE said:

Tyrath said:

 Eodon and Ilsh are not fel   And removing the recall aspect by utilizing those areas and I would add the abyss would really poop on the recall scripters parade.

Yeah I forgot the Abyss, can put the high end ores there as well as Fel Dungeons, Fel Lost Lands, Ilshenar, Valley of Eodon.  Think the Yomotsu Mines in Tokuno, Wrong Dungeon Tram are also no recall 'in' zones. 

It would be really simple to make it that all the high end stuff could be in no recall 'in' zones. While the basic ores/wood remain in Tram. 

I would rather they put it back to static locations but if the reason they won't is due to 'scripters' then make it so it is the real miners/lumberjacks can find the stuff and put it in non-recall areas and UP THE RATE of the resource nodes so it isn't such a hit and miss when it comes to random stuff. There are lots of non recall areas that are NOT in fel to cater to the newbie or those who don't wanna go to fel.

Cough and Wind    

Tyrath

AQHF said:

I think a lot of people situated their houses by remote mountains so they could mine. It will suck if suddenly their house location is rendered meaningless by the removal of all upper end ore. Requiring a long trek to get ore and possibly rendering their mining template ineffective doesn't sound like it is promoting fun to me, or leading to more people mining.

I do like the idea of increasing the time that a vein stays. This would be a payoff for those that actively prospect.

Perhaps we could do double ore in areas where teleport is not allowed. That way those who do the trek get rewarded.

How about if a miner is digging, they can randomly get a map with a 10 minute timer: "You spot a formation of perfect emeralds nearby"-- act on the map, or it goes poof.

   There is that, I don't place my houses up in the top of wind maze for the view  

Zapp

Some thoughts,

Please don't nerf my beetle, on the very rare cases that I actually go mining, I want my beetle with me.
And my trusted packies too

The idea of a type of timer for mining sounds really good. Face it, for most people, 2-3 hours a day mining is about all you can put up with, if that even. Everyone knows that an account that does it for the stated 23 hours a day is running a script. 

The idea of placement of the higher end resources into non recall areas might be a move in the right direction, but really I think that all it would do, would be to reduce the amount they could script in a day. Scripters can write scripts to cover / do just about anything. Agreed, it would definitely cut into the daily haul. 

I did like like the old days when I knew right where to mine if I wanted to get 500 Val ingots. 
I just went around the scripters / to different spots as needed. 

And fel scripters??? Haha I used to have a couple of runebooks full of fel scripter locations and would just recall all around killing them

Thanks for reading!!

Garth_Grey

This thread has been ruined, can we get another one started thats back on topic ?

Skett

Since this thread is OT make the smelting of higher end ore success rate better 

SwordofExcalibur

Zapp said:

Some thoughts,

Please don't nerf my beetle, on the very rare cases that I actually go mining, I want my beetle with me.
And my trusted packies too

The idea of a type of timer for mining sounds really good. Face it, for most people, 2-3 hours a day mining is about all you can put up with, if that even. Everyone knows that an account that does it for the stated 23 hours a day is running a script. 

The idea of placement of the higher end resources into non recall areas might be a move in the right direction, but really I think that all it would do, would be to reduce the amount they could script in a day. Scripters can write scripts to cover / do just about anything. Agreed, it would definitely cut into the daily haul. 

I did like like the old days when I knew right where to mine if I wanted to get 500 Val ingots. 
I just went around the scripters / to different spots as needed. 

And fel scripters??? Haha I used to have a couple of runebooks full of fel scripter locations and would just recall all around killing them

Thanks for reading!!

True.

Scripting is an art form.  If someone with enough gumption and time wrote out a script to walk to a spot in Fel without getting killed, I would have to hand it to them; they deserve the resources by that time.

A bot could not fight back against a Fel opponent though. Now, if it can still farm and fight back with precision, then our whole discussion is over.

That scripter has beat UO lol.

I doubt there is an average/a amateur programmer around with that much time, passion, and ingenuity for UO.

But if there is, they win. Lol

Tyrath

Can't have a discussion about gathering resources without that discussion including the cheating and scripting that goes a long with it.   Hardly ruining the thread or derailing it as the Cheating/Scripting was the logic back in the day for making resources random...... Which as history has shown removed the player miners pretty much from the equation and gave scripters free run on wood and ore for way too many years now.  Back then when those of us asked that something be done about the cheating........ We were not asking for the best system to be broken. We were asking that the TOS and the Cheaters be dealt with.  What we got was more cheaters and our profession nerfed into oblivion.  So saying the thread is OT or ruined simply is not accurate as what is and has been talked about is very relevant in the broader picture of resource gathering as a whole.  What I do know is making it more complicated is not going to be appealing to many, but as always the scripters will find a way around, while once again the legit players get the bone.  The wood and ore change from static to random only accomplished making a whole lot of us mad, it was not asked for, it was not wanted and it should have been reverted shortly after it was implemented.  While none of us legit miners and LJs liked the scripters we could at least deal with them and use game mechanics to disrupt them.  

Skett

Well said sir 

Bilbo

Tyrath said:

Can't have a discussion about gathering resources without that discussion including the cheating and scripting that goes a long with it.   Hardly ruining the thread or derailing it as the Cheating/Scripting was the logic back in the day for making resources random...... Which as history has shown removed the player miners pretty much from the equation and gave scripters free run on wood and ore for way too many years now.  Back then when those of us asked that something be done about the cheating........ We were not asking for the best system to be broken. We were asking that the TOS and the Cheaters be dealt with.  What we got was more cheaters and our profession nerfed into oblivion.  So saying the thread is OT or ruined simply is not accurate as what is and has been talked about is very relevant in the broader picture of resource gathering as a whole.  What I do know is making it more complicated is not going to be appealing to many, but as always the scripters will find a way around, while once again the legit players get the bone.  The wood and ore change from static to random only accomplished making a whole lot of us mad, it was not asked for, it was not wanted and it should have been reverted shortly after it was implemented.  While none of us legit miners and LJs liked the scripters we could at least deal with them and use game mechanics to disrupt them.  

Butcher

I think MissE’s idea is a brilliant one. I enjoyed mining actually back in the day. I don’t mine at all now and a change like this could make me start a new miner character.