Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Release 3

Abbarosh

MissE said:

Anyways before I move onto the trove maps I did another 10 hoard maps only this time in fel to guage how many power scrolls are likely and to see what other types of loot there are.  Disappointed all round to be honest as the powerscrolls take the 'slot' of one of the 4 paper items you were gonna get in a tram hoard map and are not 'in addition' to.  Plus the guaranteed .5 pink is gone so you will still get 4 paper things (alacrity, tmap, pink or powerscroll). Nothing else of any value.  Given so far I have dug up 10 stash, 10 supply, 10 cache, 10 tram hoard and 10 fel hoard (50 maps in total) I have yet to see a mana orb or pardon, have had 1 hourglass and 2 skull floor tiles.  Not much for 50 maps.

As for item loot I see no 'boost' to quality and due to the vastly reduced number compared to an ingenious map the end result is you actually take home less 'nice' bits.  Certainly you take home a substantial amount less for unraveling as a chest now has about a max of 24 loot items in it as opposed to the 80 odd items before.  A 75% reduction in that type of loot means you end up with 75% less 'nice' bits.   Anyways this is the breakdown on FEL hoard maps.   Oh did get a star sapphire octopus necklace although I have zero idea as to what purpose it has with 0 mods.  Haven't seen if it can be imbued, if it can't well I guess you can lock it down on the floor or something. The spread on the powerscrolls was pretty reasonable, although the 105's are lame.

at a glance

Of all the items I only found 7 keepers out of 191 pieces in the ten chests.  NOT good.  Even those were not great bits, although one tunic was reasonably good and a legendary.

As I said in the last look at 10 tram hoard maps, the amount of alacrities (20 this time in fel) (25 in the tram ones) they are gonna be totally worthless due to swamping on the market.  The spawn rate has increased by a factor of 8 so where there has been a steady supply and market that will change instantly.  Once you take out gold gems and alacrities the above pinks and ps are all you get for all that effort. It takes a while to kill those mobs solo, but if you had a party you would seriously end up with bugger all loot worth splitting. 

I have a bit more testing to do but i have done 621 lvl 6 maps this month on the live shard, and if you actually think the revamp is good to go loot wise , i am pretty sure you will lose alot of tmappers,  as far as I can see atm the revamp actually nerfs the loot , compared to what we have atm.  what does everyone else think? 

Margrette

These charts might help with understanding what goes with each theme.  They both probably need additional updates and other than power scrolls, imbuing resources and ML ingredients, nothing is noted for availability by facet.  I can add that later if people can help with pinning down specific items by facet.



(You can see a better copy of this here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rs0XK-tzifjEAJ1MHITGWc5MhKzMG236/view?usp=sharing )



Better copy here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-L35NrLESjK2K6Y7vNgczHbMUlnMn77N/view?usp=sharing

Margrette

These might be better for the contents by theme and map level.   Note:  These seem to need more updating for this third round of testing, as it appears that some of the "paper" items are spawning in additional levels of chests.  

STASH


SUPPLY


CACHE


HORDE


TROVE


These are from the spreadsheet here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17SHMAEYnwRJ1o6e_16ov9JKue0DnHi1FzHnxOt-bI8g/edit?usp=sharing

The first two tabs  have the same information, just in different orientations.

Margrette

In this third round of testing, has anyone found a recipe scroll in a chest that was not Artisan Supply or Artisan Cache?

Margrette

With this third round of testing, has anyone found an octopus necklace, skull longsword, or skull gnarled staff in a Stash or Supply chest?

Margrette

With this third round of testing, has anyone found one of the deco items in a Stash or Supply chest?  This would be things like a vine, hourglass, skull tile, coffin piece.

Margrette

Has anyone found power scrolls in Stash, Supply, or Cache chests dug up in Felucca?

Margrette

Has anyone found any of the utility items (shield engraving tool in Artisan, skeleton key in Assassin, or pet treat in Ranger) in a chest that was not a Supply level chest?

Margrette

Has anyone found an artifact in a green bag, mana phasing orb, surge shield, runed sash of warding, forged pardon, or a pair of the Legendary Ranger glasses in a chest that was not a Supply level chest?

If you have found mana phasing orbs, surge shields, runed sashes, or forged pardons, can you please list which theme applied to the chest where you found each item? (I think the forged pardons are unique to Assassin Supply chests, but am not sure on the rest.)

Margrette

Has anyone found an octopus necklace, skull longsword, or skull staff in an Assassin, Mage, Ranger, or Warrior chest that had no properties and can be imbued or reforged? 

I believe only these items that have come from Artisan chests can be modified.  Most recent version of publish notes say you use reforging on the necklace, but the original publish notes said all three of these items were imbuable if found in Artisan chests.  So can the skull longsword or skull staff found in artisan chests be modified with reforging or do you use imbuing?

popps

Margrette said:

These charts might help with understanding what goes with each theme.  They both probably need additional updates and other than power scrolls, imbuing resources and ML ingredients, nothing is noted for availability by facet.  I can add that later if people can help with pinning down specific items by facet.



(You can see a better copy of this here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rs0XK-tzifjEAJ1MHITGWc5MhKzMG236/view?usp=sharing )



Better copy here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-L35NrLESjK2K6Y7vNgczHbMUlnMn77N/view?usp=sharing

@Margrette

I see that, for Artisans' SUPPLY map, ONLY Essences are indicated for Ter Mur Artisans' Maps.

What about all of the rest of Imbuing Resources which a Crafter needs ??

Furthermore, do the Imbuing Resources (as well as the Mondain's Legacy ones) come as "plentiful" with this Level Artisan's Map ?

The reason for asking, is that with 5 Professions and 5 Levels of Maps for each profession, having a SINGLE Map only (Artisan's, Supply) come with much needed Crafting Resources in it, this means 1 out of 25 possible spawning Maps in order to PRECISELY get this one Artisan's "Supply" Treasure Map for this Crafters on the lookout for these Resources in order to be able to carry out their crafting Profession....

That is, what will be the "likeliness" for a Crafter to find as loot PRECISELY an Artisan's + Supply Treasure Map so as to get a sufficient provision of these much needed crafting resources ?

Either "more" Artisans' Treasure Maps (more Levels) should carry these much needed crafting Resources OR, if they will be limited to only spawn in Supply Artisans' Treasure Maps, THEN they should be spawning in quite large quantities to be really of any realistic use to crafters for their crafting needs....

The OTHER Question that I had, is in regards to Recipes in Artisans' Treasure Chests.....

I see that in Artisans' SUPPLY and CACHE Treasure Maps, "LEGACY RECIPE SCROLLS" are mentioned to spawn.

What does "Legacy" stand for ?

Are they only and exclusively the Heartwood Recipes, so to speak ?

Or are they going to be ALL Recipes, including those from Quests, from the Valley of Eodon and those which can be found in Doom as of Publish 96 (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-96/) which can spawn in Artisans' Supply and Cache Treasure Maps ?

@Kyronix , could you please give us more info on this ? Thanks !

Margrette

popps said:

Margrette said:

These charts might help with understanding what goes with each theme.  They both probably need additional updates and other than power scrolls, imbuing resources and ML ingredients, nothing is noted for availability by facet.  I can add that later if people can help with pinning down specific items by facet.



(You can see a better copy of this here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rs0XK-tzifjEAJ1MHITGWc5MhKzMG236/view?usp=sharing )



Better copy here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-L35NrLESjK2K6Y7vNgczHbMUlnMn77N/view?usp=sharing

@ Margrette

I see that, for Artisans' SUPPLY map, ONLY Essences are indicated for Ter Mur Artisans' Maps.

What about all of the rest of Imbuing Resources which a Crafter needs ??

Furthermore, do the Imbuing Resources (as well as the Mondain's Legacy ones) come as "plentiful" with this Level Artisan's Map ?

The reason for asking, is that with 5 Professions and 5 Levels of Maps for each profession, having a SINGLE Map only (Artisan's, Supply) come with much needed Crafting Resources in it, this means 1 out of 25 possible spawning Maps in order to PRECISELY get this one Artisan's "Supply" Treasure Map for this Crafters on the lookout for these Resources in order to be able to carry out their crafting Profession....

That is, what will be the "likeliness" for a Crafter to find as loot PRECISELY an Artisan's + Supply Treasure Map so as to get a sufficient provision of these much needed crafting resources ?

Either "more" Artisans' Treasure Maps (more Levels) should carry these much needed crafting Resources OR, if they will be limited to only spawn in Supply Artisans' Treasure Maps, THEN they should be spawning in quite large quantities to be really of any realistic use to crafters for their crafting needs....

The OTHER Question that I had, is in regards to Recipes in Artisans' Treasure Chests.....

I see that in Artisans' SUPPLY and CACHE Treasure Maps, "LEGACY RECIPE SCROLLS" are mentioned to spawn.

What does "Legacy" stand for ?

Are they only and exclusively the Heartwood Recipes, so to speak ?

Or are they going to be ALL Recipes, including those from Quests, from the Valley of Eodon and those which can be found in Doom as of Publish 96 (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-96/) which can spawn in Artisans' Supply and Cache Treasure Maps ?

@ Kyronix , could you please give us more info on this ? Thanks !

@popps, you were the one who complained about finding the imbuing ingredients and the ML ingredients in non-Artisan chests.  So the devs listened to you and moved those things to Artisan Supply chests in Malas and Ter Mur.  They originally had the imbuing ingredients in Assassin, Barbarian, Ranger, and Warrior Stash chests in Ter Mur and the ML ingredients were in Assassin, Barbarian, Ranger, and Warrior Stash chests in Malas.  

I've asked the same questions as you about the recipe scrolls, but no answer yet.  

TimSt

@popps from my testing of artisan supply chests in Malas the number of ML ingredients ranges from 1 to 4 either in a stack or of different types. Which is fine considering how easy it is to farm the dark guardians for maps. Like 60 maps in 15 minutes easy. Beats getting keys and killing bosses.

Margrette

TimSt said:

@ popps from my testing of artisan supply chests in Malas the number of ML ingredients ranges from 1 to 4 either in a stack or of different types. Which is fine considering how easy it is to farm the dark guardians for maps. Like 60 maps in 15 minutes easy. Beats getting keys and killing bosses.

I think we can kiss treasure hunting goodbye for getting a steady supply of essences or abyssal cloth because getting supply maps in Ter Mur won't be all that easy and you'll only use the Artisan ones. It will be easier, however, than it would have been to get stash level Artisan maps in Ter Mur.  There doesn't seem to be anything in Ter Mur that gives Stash maps.

popps

Margrette said:

popps said:

Margrette said:

These charts might help with understanding what goes with each theme.  They both probably need additional updates and other than power scrolls, imbuing resources and ML ingredients, nothing is noted for availability by facet.  I can add that later if people can help with pinning down specific items by facet.



(You can see a better copy of this here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rs0XK-tzifjEAJ1MHITGWc5MhKzMG236/view?usp=sharing )



Better copy here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-L35NrLESjK2K6Y7vNgczHbMUlnMn77N/view?usp=sharing

@ Margrette

I see that, for Artisans' SUPPLY map, ONLY Essences are indicated for Ter Mur Artisans' Maps.

What about all of the rest of Imbuing Resources which a Crafter needs ??

Furthermore, do the Imbuing Resources (as well as the Mondain's Legacy ones) come as "plentiful" with this Level Artisan's Map ?

The reason for asking, is that with 5 Professions and 5 Levels of Maps for each profession, having a SINGLE Map only (Artisan's, Supply) come with much needed Crafting Resources in it, this means 1 out of 25 possible spawning Maps in order to PRECISELY get this one Artisan's "Supply" Treasure Map for this Crafters on the lookout for these Resources in order to be able to carry out their crafting Profession....

That is, what will be the "likeliness" for a Crafter to find as loot PRECISELY an Artisan's + Supply Treasure Map so as to get a sufficient provision of these much needed crafting resources ?

Either "more" Artisans' Treasure Maps (more Levels) should carry these much needed crafting Resources OR, if they will be limited to only spawn in Supply Artisans' Treasure Maps, THEN they should be spawning in quite large quantities to be really of any realistic use to crafters for their crafting needs....

The OTHER Question that I had, is in regards to Recipes in Artisans' Treasure Chests.....

I see that in Artisans' SUPPLY and CACHE Treasure Maps, "LEGACY RECIPE SCROLLS" are mentioned to spawn.

What does "Legacy" stand for ?

Are they only and exclusively the Heartwood Recipes, so to speak ?

Or are they going to be ALL Recipes, including those from Quests, from the Valley of Eodon and those which can be found in Doom as of Publish 96 (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/publish-notes/publish-96/) which can spawn in Artisans' Supply and Cache Treasure Maps ?

@ Kyronix , could you please give us more info on this ? Thanks !

@ popps, you were the one who complained about finding the imbuing ingredients and the ML ingredients in non-Artisan chests.  So the devs listened to you and moved those things to Artisan Supply chests in Malas and Ter Mur.  They originally had the imbuing ingredients in Assassin, Barbarian, Ranger, and Warrior Stash chests in Ter Mur and the ML ingredients were in Assassin, Barbarian, Ranger, and Warrior Stash chests in Malas.  

I've asked the same questions as you about the recipe scrolls, but no answer yet.  

I am VERY fine in finding the Mondain's Legacy and Imbuing Crafting Resources in Artisans' Chests.

It IS their place, none other, to my opinion.....

That said, though, I am wondering why they are not to be found in ALL of the 5 Levels of Artisans' Treasure Chests as this would make it more possible to Crafters to get them as they could use anyone Artisans' Treasure Maps to find them in the Chest, not just 1 or 2 Levels....

I am also very fine to find them only in 1 or 2 Levels of the Artisans' Treasure Chests "IF" they will be found in generous amounts in this or these more limited Artisans' Treasure Chests....

But I do not see them as "fit" in any other Profession's Treasure Chest BUT the Artisans'....

popps

TimSt said:

@ popps from my testing of artisan supply chests in Malas the number of ML ingredients ranges from 1 to 4 either in a stack or of different types. Which is fine considering how easy it is to farm the dark guardians for maps. Like 60 maps in 15 minutes easy. Beats getting keys and killing bosses.

Well, perhaps the number of ML ingredients and Imbuing Ingredients could be raised if making them available "also" in Cache, Horde and Trove Artisans' Chests ?

That is, the higher the Level of the Artisan's Chest the higher the number of such particular and much needed to Crafters ingredients to be found in them ?

popps

Margrette said:

TimSt said:

@ popps from my testing of artisan supply chests in Malas the number of ML ingredients ranges from 1 to 4 either in a stack or of different types. Which is fine considering how easy it is to farm the dark guardians for maps. Like 60 maps in 15 minutes easy. Beats getting keys and killing bosses.

I think we can kiss treasure hunting goodbye for getting a steady supply of essences or abyssal cloth because getting supply maps in Ter Mur won't be all that easy and you'll only use the Artisan ones. It will be easier, however, than it would have been to get stash level Artisan maps in Ter Mur.  There doesn't seem to be anything in Ter Mur that gives Stash maps.

I am rather confused by the conversion from the old maps to the new ones....

My understanding is, that what Creature spawned the old Maps, will now spawn the new Treasure Maps as per the Levels conversion...

Only, that now there is 5 Professions within which those spawning Maps will be "split up", so to speak....

Therefore, a player targeting a "specific" type of Map, say Artisans' Supply in Ter Mur, would now have to farm for how long whatever Monster in Ter Mur spawned the former Expertly and Adeptly Treasure Maps in order to get THAT particular Artisans' Supply Treasure Map ?

They will likely get Warriors', Mages', Assassins', Rangers' Supply Treasure Maps for Ter Mur, just as well.... so, their odds will be 1 in 5 to get the "specific" Supply Artisans' Treasure Map which they are looking for....

Personally, I would see it favourably if the Treasure Maps' Spawns on Creatures was, just as well, "specialized".....

That is, select 25 types of Monsters which can, individually, only spawn a specific Profession and level of Treasure Map.

This way, players seeking THAT Treasure Map will go hunt THAT particular Creature in order to get such a particular Treasure Map.....

Margrette

popps said:

TimSt said:

@ popps from my testing of artisan supply chests in Malas the number of ML ingredients ranges from 1 to 4 either in a stack or of different types. Which is fine considering how easy it is to farm the dark guardians for maps. Like 60 maps in 15 minutes easy. Beats getting keys and killing bosses.

Well, perhaps the number of ML ingredients and Imbuing Ingredients could be raised if making them available "also" in Cache, Horde and Trove Artisans' Chests ?

That is, the higher the Level of the Artisan's Chest the higher the number of such particular and much needed to Crafters ingredients to be found in them ?

Popps, they really don't need to do anything about the ML ingredients in Artisan Supply chests in Malas.  People will farm dark guardians and get plenty of those maps and then folks will start wanting the quantity dialed back because "the market is being flooded."

Please think about what you're asking for.

jelinidas

This is still a mess. Said it before, will again. Way to overthought...
It is what it is though, get used to it, bet it goes live first of the week with very few tweeks.

Moral of the story, be very careful what you ask for...

Margrette

jelinidas said:

This is still a mess. Said it before, will again. Way to overthought...
It is what it is though, get used to it, bet it goes live first of the week with very few tweeks.

Moral of the story, be very careful what you ask for...

Yeah, that's why I'm trying to get remove trap done on Origin so I can actually go do some chests there without spending all my time running for a rez. I'm at 96.1 and have 1.5 in SoTs to use, so not too much left to do.

popps

One thing that I suppose is quite necessary, is that once everything is finalized, the Treasure Map page https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/treasure-maps/ is Edited by having also the "Which monsters carry treasure maps ?" section be updated by FACET....

That is, indicate what Creatures carry what Treasure Map indicating where those Creatures belong to, that is, Trammel, Felucca, Ter Mur, Malas, Tokuno, Valley of Eodon etc.

Also, in case any of these locations is seen to have a "shortage" of Creatures spawning Treasure Maps, also, please consider increasing the number of Monsters which can spawn those Facet Treasure Maps depending on their Level....

Also, please make sure that for each level Treasure Map on a given Facet, there is "several" Creatures spawning them and not just 1 or 2 which could limit too severely the possibility to get them....

Another alternative (but I would prefer to have specific Creatures on a given Facet to spawn specific Treasure Maps for that Facet as it would be easier for players, this way, to target their wanted Hunts....) could be, to just have ALL the Treasure Maps spawning Creatures be able to just spawn a Treasure Map for the level that pertains to them, in ANY Profession and Facet....

That is, for example, have Agapite Elementals in Trammel (just to name the very first listed Creature on which Treasure Maps can be found that is on the UO Wiki page...) be able to spawn Stash Treasure Maps for Trammel, Felucca, Tokuno, Ter Mur, Malas, Valley of Eodon etc. etc. just alike .....

Uriah_Heep

Thank God we didnt just simply turn up the weight on loot found in existing chests.

This is soooo much simpler and more fun...

Tim

My suggestion would be for the Dark Guardians just have maps for all shards like Miasma. Though I would cut it back from 100% drop to 70 or 80.

Abbarosh

any ishlnaer map givers in tc?
i havent tried those maps yet 

Margrette

Abbarosh said:

any ishlnaer map givers in tc?
i havent tried those maps yet 

Go to the Britain commons in Trammel and one of the gates you'll see in front of the vault building will take you to Ilshenar and a set of stones that give the various levels of maps.

Abbarosh

so honestly any hardcore mapper here , what you think of the loot? I did 621 maps this month lvl 6 i live for mapping

Arroth_Thaiel

So, I've run through another 25 Stash Maps, 5 each profession, all Tokuno. This time using 4140 luck, which if UO Guide is accurate, should peg me at max luck. I think it's pointless to continue using low luck, because if luck doesn't factor into a drop, the low/high result will be the same, and if luck does factor into a drop, the low luck result will be the same or less than the high luck result. I should have realized this from the start.

Anyway:

***

25 Stash: 4 SoT, 9 T-maps.

This is better than Release 1 (which was something like 1 in 92) and Release 2, but still only about a 50% chance of getting a T-map or SoT. This is a higher rate than my suggestion during Release 1, but now that I've done.....many.....Stashes, I'm iterating. With this new system there is nothing else (of value) in the Stash other than the "paper" prize (unless your doing Artisan/Mage). After doing all these Stashes, my reaction to opening yet another with no "paper" prize is basically, "Oh for .....". (And this is me! And with me knowing it's on Test!)

Suggestion:

When the RNG produces loot for the chest, if an SoT or T-map appears, excellent, but if not then force a 0.1 SoT or a T-map. Just make sure something is in the chest in addition to the Magic Equipment.

Because.....

While the Magic Equipment gives you something to look at in the chest (solving the empty chest visual) the equipment is not actually worthwhile. The "paper" prize is really the only thing of value in the Stashes (excepting Artisan - and to a degree Mage). 

With all Gold chests and 4140 luck: 6 Magic items in each chest, 150 Magic Items total, every one was a Greater or Lesser Magic Item.

The Magic Equipment works for the visual but not for the substance.

***

So, I say take the easy option here and just add a paper prize to every Stash. Actually, you could leave Artisan/Mage Stash alone and just force a "paper" prize into every Assassin/Ranger/Warrior Stash. You're not going to flood the SoT market using 0.1's, or overload us on t-maps (5 professions to do now!).  

TimSt

Here is the new template I have been using to solo Trammel and Malas trove chests this weekend.
Magery 120
Evaluate Intelligence 120
Inscription 100
Meditation 80
Cartography 100
Lock picking 100
Remove Trap 100

SDI from jewelry: 43
SDI from slayer spell books: 25, 27, and 29
SDI from non-slayer spell book: 49

The trove loot has been nothing to get too excited about so far.  A few nice pieces but most of items would get turned in for the cleanup points.

At the moment the artisan supply chests in Malas hold more interest for me.

Arroth_Thaiel

Some "quirks and features" of Release 3

***

Mongbats and Greater Mongbats spawning for Tokuno Stash maps are not flagged as Guardians and so do not have to be killed to LP/RT the chest.

***

All gem piles in Tokuno Stashes are 7, 9, or 11. For some reason, people who bury treasure in Tokuno Stashes just don't put gems in piles of 8 or 10. This was also true during Release 2.

Oddly enough, during Release 2, and I'm guessing to this day, all gems in Tokuno Supply chests were piled into groups of 12, 14, or 16, all gems in Tokuno Caches were in piles of 17, 19, or 21, all gems in Tokuno Hoards were in piles of 22 or 24, and all gems in Tokuno Troves were in piles of 27 or 29.

Tokunons(?) burying treasure seem strangely obsessed with keeping gem piles in perfect even/odd quantities correlating to the size of the treasure.

***

None of the 9 weapons found in Tokuno Mage Stashes had spell channeling, making them worthless for a Mage, yet great for a Mace Fighter.

Maybe 33% of weapons in Mage chests should be guaranteed SC, 33% guaranteed no SC, and 33% up to RNG? Just so that Mages could get weapons from a Mage Chest while making sure Warriors retained a good supply of wooden sticks to beat things with? (And without cluttering up the Warrior chests with staves and crooks and stuff.)

The above guarantees (or whatever %'s) could also be applied to Bone armor in Malas Mage chests (as of Release 2 at least). It would be nice to see some portion of Bone Armor guaranteed to spawn with Mage Armor so Mage's could use it (since it came from a Mage chest), while still giving Warriors the chance to find some as well. (And again without cluttering up the Warrior Chest. -Legendary Dragon Armor- ooooh.)

***

I have broken the Stash (as of Release 2) and Supply (as of today) pillars in Tokuno. Both say I cannot get another item at this time.

I believe this means I have tested too many maps.

MissE

Last of the ones I am testing, I did 10 trove maps, 5 in tram and 5 in fel this was the result.  For the added difficulty (much harder by far due to frost dragons, and ancient frost dragon guardians) you get a whole 1 extra paper piece (alacrity, pink or powerscroll) above what you get in a hoard and a few more items.  Not sure it is worth the extra effort.

Anyways this is what ten maps produced:

and at a glance:

Only 8 items of all the chests worth keeping, again, nothing brilliant, only about 6 legendaries in all ten chests but mostly useless due to the way the mods were spread.  @Abbarosh ; I agree in that the loot is not any better than what we currently have, in fact it is worse given that to get the same items you COULD pick up in ONE Ingenious chest you would now have to do about 4 maps from stash to supply to hoard etc to get the same spread of items. I will compare one decent ingenious chest to what you need to 'do' to get the equivalent loot later but from what I see you need to do at least 4 types of maps to get the same as one ingenious.  Not including the bump to alacrities. However as I have stated that bump just kills the market on these items and they will become as common as level 1 masteries shortly after it goes live so fall into the junk category really quickly 28 alacrities in those 10 troves as opposed to the current spawn rate of around 3-4 for 10 ingenious/diabolic. 

I know ppl are gonna 'love' em the first week or so but after that ...... well like anything that floods the game they become throw away.