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Comments
Set up your skills like this:
Cartography 100
Lockpicking 100
Animal Lore 100
Animal Taming 105
Veterinary 100
Magery 100
Meditation 60
Remove Trap 50
And hopefully your suit has some LMC, MR, and mana increase on it.
Then go try a few chests and leave the remove trap at 50. You will get some of the ancient chest guardians to spawn, which cause some hefty fire damage and you will have to be careful about not getting too far from the chest. With 50 remove trap skill, you won't get as many as at 0 skill. See what you think of the chest guardians and their damage and whether they are just too difficult to deal with. They will spawn one or after another, I think about 8-10 seconds apart, and possibly up to as many as five or six of them in a row if your character doesn't die or run more than 16 tiles from the chest.
Give it a go with that different combination of skills and see if you think it wpuld be viable at all for you on Sonoma. After the publish, training to 50 remove trap will not be too terribly difficult, I think. You'll be able to buy it at about 31 to 33 from an NPC thief guildmaster without also needing the 50 detect hidden/50 lockpicking after the publish goes live (if nothing changes) and I believe the puzzle trainers will give you somewhat accelerated gains and the circuit puzzles will be a lot smaller at 33-50 remove trap skill than they are once your skill gets closer to 80-100.
Plus, if you have plain maps on hand now, save them for after the publish. From what I've seen on TC, if your remove trap skill is still in training and not too high, you'll likely get some moderate gains (.1 to .5 or maybe even up to 3.0) by using the remove trap skill on the chest. On the stash chests, the ancient chest guardians are just going to be bats and orcs and zombies that cause some fire damage when they pop out but can be easily dispatched. (I'm pretty sure you'd get the gains from the other levels of chests too, but those stash chests would be a lot quicker to get through and get the gains and then trash them for cleanup points.)
I'm trying to finish training remove trap on Origin and Sonoma is next after that. If you cannot find anyone else to go with you on Sonoma (not likely, there are good folks there), I will certainly be happy to go with you and we can muddle through them together.
Cartography 100
Lockpicking 100
Animal Lore 100
Animal Taming 105
Veterinary 100
Magery 100
Meditation 60
Remove Trap 50
Above is what I used for the last map I did.
I also hate to miss with my skills on a prodo shard, on TC you can set the skills, but at home you could make a huge mess on your skills that would take a while to fix. I happen to be very happy with my t hunters skills, and I do not have remove trap on this account, I rather NOT train for it again. Nor do I wish to make a t hunter on the account that has RT. I would have to train up Cart on that account to do so.
for
Treasure Hunters
A few suggestions:
Other thoughts....
Also maybe put your puzzle training (RT) box on prodo now for those trying to skill. Overall though a much better release. My only other observation is the overkill on blue and pink drops. You're going to kill the market for those that sell.
There is a lot of ground in the game that my rogue build can't successfully cover. I don't want to give up hiding and stealth on my rogue and replace it with Spellweaving, Tamer skills, or other builds that I know are successfully soloing Trove maps. That's my choice. And I can't expect dev's to level the playing field for me, so my rogue can easily locate the chest, pick the lock, remove the trap, fight with a pet, cast a colossus, not run out of mana, while I stealth around.
And even if I did create a character that is exactly what someone else is using right now on TC to successfully solo Trove maps, I don't think I would be as successful as they are. Because I don't think I'd run that character as well as they do. It is what it is.
Cartography, Lockpicking and Removing Traps when Treasure Hunting makes sense. I think you're looking for a tough time when you're trying to be a proficient mage, proficient tamer, and proficient treasure hunter all at the same time because you want to solo the high end maps. A work-around to RT is already in place. Use it and fight your way out. Or be more flexible and change your TH template.
I think if your RT skill is rather high, say maybe high 80s or in the 90s, you may get a chest guardian the first time you use it and if you run too far or die, the next time you use it you may not get any guardian at all. I think the not getting anything the second time is more a function of your skill level than anything else. I tried several chests with RT set at 95 and sometimes there was a chest guardian and sometimes there wasn't.
I think it's wrong to be too critical of our fellow subscribers for being a bit downcast at this turn of events after several weeks of Kyronix and people like me and Arroth and Tanager trying to convince them that "template flexibility" was the name of the game in the last round of the testing. I think we all need to make allowances for what people are feeling and give them time to wrap their heads around it and to test it. It's only been two days so far for the shock to set in that if you want to get back to soloing the toughest maps, you probably have to squeeze in GM remove trap, as well as stop using soulstones to swap skills like cartography and lockpicking off and on through the process of digging up a chest.
I say we give people time to absorb all of this and stop being so harsh if people are having trouble with it.
Soulstone accidents are the kind of tragedy that cause people to walk away from UO permanently or at least for a long, long time.
So, let's take Drakelord's example. Let's figure out the mechanics of how you use skill training and soulstones to modify what he has now:
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
105 Magery
100 Meditation
100 Animal Lore
105 Animal Taming
110 Veterinary
720 Total
to get to this:
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
50 Remove Trap (a +50 gain)
105 Magery
60 Meditation (a -40 decrease)
100 Animal Lore
105 Animal Taming
100 Veterinary (a -10 decrease) (I'm assuming this doesn't unacceptably alter his stable slots)
If he buys RT training from an NPC thief guildmaster, it will probably total 31 to 33 points, if he's lucky.
I think he would have to turn down meditation before visiting the NPC and buying RT training. That should leave him at:
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
33 Remove Trap (a +33 gain, with 17 more to go)
105 Magery
67 Meditation (a -33 decrease)
100 Animal Lore
105 Animal Taming
110 Veterinary (still needs to lose 10 of this)
So as he is training up RT, especially with one of the puzzle trainers or by digging up chests, he is going to have the problem that those gains are going to be very erratic. They won't be simple 0.1 gains. They might be bigger jumps like 3.2.
So does he use the puzzle trainers and cross his fingers and stop training RT when he's gotten a gain that takes his meditation to exactly 60 or shortly below it?
Assuming that's what he does, now he's looking at this:
100 Cartography
100 Lockpicking
40-43 Remove Trap (still has another 10 to go)
105 Magery
57-60 Meditation (he wants 60 in the end)
100 Animal Lore
105 Animal Taming
110 Veterinary (still needs to lose 10 of this)
So now I think he would lock Meditation for the moment, even if it is below 60. Then turn down Veterinary.
Then carefully use puzzle training boxes or doing stash chests to raise Remove Trap another 5 or 6 points and lower Vet by the same amount.
Then switch to boxes trapped by a character with 40ish tinkering skill to raise RT the rest of the way to 50 one 0.1 gain at a time, and then lock it. Then, if Meditation is below 60, turn it up and let it gain until the skill total hits 720 and Meditation hits 60 and lock it as well.
Anyone have some better ideas for doing this without totally blowing up his template, exceeding his stable slots, losing pets, etc.? I cannot come up with any way for him to use soulstones to do this because he could potentially wipe out way too much of some skills.
Because I use a pure-ish mage as my t-hunter the only change I would need to make to continue to solo high level maps is swap 100 RS with 100 RT and use enchanted apples in place of RS.
The tamer mages that some people use might not have the flexibility to swap a skill like that. Which is why I suggested for stash and supply chests let the magic untrap spell work in place of the RT skill.
What I see some people doing is:
Locate and start digging up the chest with 100 cart
Mark rune
Recall home
Stone off cart
Stone on lock pick
Recall to chest
Continue to dig up chest
Defeat guardians
Unlock chest
Recall home
Wait for battle timer to end
Stone off lock pick
Stone on remove trap
Recall to chest
Use remove trap on chest
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/27407/#Comment_27407
A Haven Remove Trap newbie quest with accelerated skill gain to 50, maybe using the existing puzzle boxes, would be nice.
One thing to keep in mind is that there are both SoT's and SoA's for Remove Trap, so those might help a bit with training. Obviously that is not an ideal solution, but they are at least out there.
If you use the EC, you can right click on the skill icon in the skill list and choose "Set Auto-Lock Value". This will allow you to lock the skill at the exact 0.1 value you're looking for when training. That way you don't have to worry about going over that value and decreasing a different skill further than you'd like. Don't know if there is similar functionality in the CC.
***
The Publish notes say:
"...... You will also be able to train Remove Trap via untrapping Treasure Chests and other traps already in the gameworld....."
Has anyone tried the floor traps in the dungeons for skill gain?
***
Haven't had time to test with Release 3, hoping to do a bit this weekend.
Then repeat with vet. Stone it off, train up RT. Stone off RT, put vet back on, then turn it down and put RT back on.
If that makes any sense to you. I'm exhausted and may not be explaining this in the best way.
here are a few observations I have made during testing on TC.
I did 1 each of Stash, Supply, Cache & Horde with Mobs. Then quite a few Horde without Mobs to check the Remove Trap behavior and evaluate my current build.
The loot was really good. Multiple legendaries, greaters and also scrolls. Everytime gold and gems. Thumbs up!
1. Multiple Remove Trap tries were necessary even at GM level; example: 1st RT spawned a little drake, stayed within the spot; after defeating him I had to Remove Trap again and a 2nd Ancient Wyrm (?) guardian spawned; I assume this is intended to up the difficulty.
2. When I drag the healthbar from the guardian in the EC the healthbar disappears when the guardian resets to the chest; this is somewhat annoying. I know it's included in the mobiles bar but I like dragging specific monsters to a spot on the screen which is more centered when I fight agains a single enemy; I always had to drag it again. Normally if a mob is not present on the screen the bar just goes to a read-only state (disabled) but does not disappear
3. The ancient wyrm (?) guardian sometimes spawned 2 fire breaths executing more damage I could handle and I died instantly. I also saw 2 fireballs on the screen moving to my position. I was not in a group & alone. 1 breath already is about >100 HP (for me at 40 fire resist currently).
4. The guardians fly away on low health potentially leaving the 16 tile radius. When that happens and you fought an ancient wyrm all by yourself for minutes and nearly defeated it, it's frustrating.
5. You already stated this: guardians can loot you and you will not receive your stuff back when killing them; also happened to me
6. It would be really nice to visually see the radius you are allowed to move in. Especially in dense jungle areas it gets tricky to see the chest and maintain an overview of where you are at. But I assume that's hard to implement
7. The fire damage that I took when the guardian spawned was about 60 HP at 40/70 resist. My current suit does not cap it out. Need a better one. After getting the hit you unhide and the guardian is instantly chasing you which was not easy to handle. Most of the time it instantly hits you in melee, too. I think the power of that initial strike is pretty high even though I understand why you implemented it. It should absolutely be there, but I don't know if it needs the strength it currently has.
I struggled hard after removing the trap with the appearing guardian. It seems that 95% of the time an ancient wyrm (?) spawned at GM level of remove traps and on Horde chests. All by myself and with a provo build it was not possible to handle him. I imagine this is what you intended. I love to adapt and it's still possible to fight him with just a minor change of my build. I like that challenge.
For everyone else that's interested. On 80 remove traps, 2 guardians are spawned. I thought it might be clever to adjust that for my provo build. But unfortunately the first guardian spawns immediately and also hits you with the flame burst while the 2nd guardian spawns after about 5-10 seconds later. They do not spawn at the same time so you can provo them onto another. So no option for me to reset to 80 skill. Still need 100 and rather show the one guardian that appears what my bard is thinking of him. xD
Thanks for you work, really appreciate the change. For me treasure hunting in it's core will remain what it is. In my opinion it is even better than it was before (more thrill but still chill). I'm very much looking forward to the release. :-) Took a few days off in June, hope it's at the same time when the publish is released. xD
Best regards
BumblebeeB2
-- edited accidentally wrote Trove, but I meant Horde every time. Did not test any Trove.
120 Taming (90 real)
120 Lore (90 real)
100 Vet
114 Magery (110 real)
100 LP
100 RT
30 Med
@Kyronix with a 2170 Luck suit, every chest in Fel was normal color, I did get Gold ones in Tram.
I also did a couple of Hoard and 1 Trove with a friend and thought the amount of loot was acceptable, but the amount of loot in Fel was considerably higher than Tram ones. I have yet to get a Mana Phasing Orb or a Skeleton key or any of the Named Artifacts that normally come with Level 6 or 7 on current production.
Luck doesn't factor into the type of chest you get, that is based on your modified cartography skill. Luck will enhance the magic equipment that fills the chests, like it does with all loot production. The type of chest will give different ranges for the budgets that are used in magic equipment creation with rusty being the low end and gold being the high end.
Mana Orbs, Skeleton Keys, and Named artifacts were redistributed to lower level chests. Check the publish notes for the full distribution.
Utility Items (Assassin, Artisan, and Ranger Supply)
- Legacy & New Utility Items based on package
- New: Shield Engraving Tool
Minor Artifacts (All packages, Supply)We've recorded most of our attempts because it's so much easier recording and pulling data then stopping each step to enter stuff into spreadsheets.
@kyronix Will you be gathering our data through the weekend or? (curious how much time should be spent this weekend doing maps)
My results from the cache and hoard are not entirely accurate, because I was distracted when emptying them.
Some extra comments:
What also struck me as unusual: Stash, supply and cache prompted: You study the treasure map but need more time to decode. However, hoard prompted the message: You fail to make anything of the map. If you don't think this is strange, then how do you explain the trove map: 29 x You study the treasure map but need more time to decode and 1 x You fail to make anything of the map.
60K of gold is a nice amount, but would there be a possibility of compacting it somehow? Or perhaps an option to send it immediately to the bank when clicking it? Yes, I know there's such a thing as a bag of sending, but obtaining the translocation power is such a drag (or horrendously expensive). I would love to simply empty the chest without constantly having to recall or gate (and in Ilshenar gating is impossible anyway).
My final gripe is an ancient one. Would there be a possibility to make the chest spawn on a location which isn't covered by a tree's foliage? You're never entirely certain where and when the guardians will spawn.
Hope my comments help.
@Violet - yes we will be logging data all weekend, so keep on testing!
@Tarragon_Slayer - were these newly created maps that you pulled from the clickies? If you attempt to decode a map immediately after it is created you will run into some delays. What you are encountering is the map basically looking for a good chest location in the world. That takes some time.
Re: why there is no extra loot on the ancient chest guardians, this is the tradeoff that you make for investing in skill vs. not investing in skill. Were we to put extra loot on the higher level guardian mobs we would essentially be providing incentive to fight them for the loot, which de-incentivizes (new word!) not having RT since you don't get any tangible short term gain by fighting them. It's a delicate balancing act that hopefully we threaded very carefully.
Thanks for the comments! Happy testing!