Undress/Dress Macro Addition to Classic Client

Petra_Fyde

Thanks @Bleak ;  I can live with that, I'd expect to be wearing a second suit for much longer than a few seconds before I need to change back - although I have to admit I don't mess around swapping suits mid battle.

Larisa

Same Petra, the only time I switch suits is when I need my luck suit for that final hit...usually I forget to start the game with UOA so am used to running off with everyone else while we change to our luck suits and hit the statue. Actually from the way Bleak describes it, it's faster then the UOA macro....hmm...now I have to time it lol. 

Drakelord

is this available now in the options (CC)?  If so where? I love to try it.  I have been using the UOA one for years and its so dang slow, but I'm like another here its a pain looking for that last ring to put on so the dress macro UOA has is good, but I love to have a dress maco like above.

Tim

Still not clear 
Bleak said:

Petra_Fyde said:

So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 

Correct

When you say suit you do mean full suit (up to 8 items including jewelry and weapons)?

So if you hit your full redress macro (8 items) after putting on the badge to get by the guards it would be only 2 seconds to put all your gear back on?  

If the intent is to keep players from switching armor sets repeatedly wouldn't a cool down on the equip macro be simpler? 

Khyro

Bleak said:

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

This sounds reasonable and acceptable. This sounds like it will not affect dressing after death, which is where a lot of concern was coming in.

I personally have never swapped suits rapidly and I imagine those who do are doing it to get an advantage, like instant swapping to LRC or SDI gear, then swapping back, or instant swapping to Luck gear for a kill, then swapping back to fight the next mob. This sounds like it will penalize those that are exploiting the dress macro, while not harming those of us that don't (which is how all fixes should be).

The only concern I have is if this will affect weapon swaps as well. Right now, the EC has an "Equip Weapon" macro, which essentially just changes your weapon out without a delay. I can press my macro for Bladed Staff, and it will swap my Double Axe and my Bladed Staff. I can then use the "Equip Last Weapon" macro, again for an instant weapon swap. Will weapon swaps now create a 1s delay? (Unequip > 1s Delay > Equip New Weapon > 1s Delay before you can swap again). I am fine with 1s delay AFTER the swap to prevent rapidly switching weapons, but I hope that the current 'Equip Weapon' and 'Swap Weapon' macros stay the same and do not create a 1s delay between un-equipping and re-equipping a new weapon.

Cookie

I think Equality between the clients is very important - especially where it can happen. Especially in a competitive game (even PvM is competitive whether you admit it or not!).

You don't call one client an enhanced client, and promote this by deliberately hamstringing one client to force people onto the other. Apple tried this, by restricting battery life on older phone models, and look where it got them, in the end, this is fake marketing practice and will bite you back. Customers see through this and feel deceived, and go to another company. {Worldwise, Samsung benefitted massively from that episode}.

Balance, is also important.

Some questions that have to be asked, and answered, are how do you envision the game be played? Is multiple suit swapping a thing, is it considered part of the gameplay, or an exploit? How does it feel to play the game in this style ? Skett's question was valid, is the real answer to fix the Suits and Armour, so this is not a gameplay requirement? Sometimes - I'd like to know a bit more about the Vision of the Developers behind their logic - how they see or feel the game should be played, and what they are trying to achieve.

I truthfully do not understand from the descriptions given so far, how the new dress/undress macro differs from what already exists in CC/EC. I cannot picture it, it isn't clear enough for me.

To that end, I cannot comment on how good this solution is.

But ultimately, Yes, something absolutely has to be done to balance this out.

Maximus_Neximus

Bleak said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Xare said:

Kyronix said:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.

You hit your undress macro and it will have a 1s delay until you're undressed. You hit dress and you have a delay of 1s per item until you're fully dressed.

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

My mistake, thank you for the clarification. It appears that this is a good addition to the game as written. I look forward to testing.

Bilbo

Bleak said:

Petra_Fyde said:

So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 

Correct

Now that clears up a lot of BS.  So this only affects dress/undress and nothing else like spell casting.

Bleak

Khyro said:

Bleak said:

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

This sounds reasonable and acceptable. This sounds like it will not affect dressing after death, which is where a lot of concern was coming in.

I personally have never swapped suits rapidly and I imagine those who do are doing it to get an advantage, like instant swapping to LRC or SDI gear, then swapping back, or instant swapping to Luck gear for a kill, then swapping back to fight the next mob. This sounds like it will penalize those that are exploiting the dress macro, while not harming those of us that don't (which is how all fixes should be).

The only concern I have is if this will affect weapon swaps as well. Right now, the EC has an "Equip Weapon" macro, which essentially just changes your weapon out without a delay. I can press my macro for Bladed Staff, and it will swap my Double Axe and my Bladed Staff. I can then use the "Equip Last Weapon" macro, again for an instant weapon swap. Will weapon swaps now create a 1s delay? (Unequip > 1s Delay > Equip New Weapon > 1s Delay before you can swap again). I am fine with 1s delay AFTER the swap to prevent rapidly switching weapons, but I hope that the current 'Equip Weapon' and 'Swap Weapon' macros stay the same and do not create a 1s delay between un-equipping and re-equipping a new weapon.

On production currently, any Equip Item action for a single item has a 1-second delay. The Equip Last Weapon action does not have a delay.

Bilbo

Bleak said:

Khyro said:

Bleak said:

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

This sounds reasonable and acceptable. This sounds like it will not affect dressing after death, which is where a lot of concern was coming in.

I personally have never swapped suits rapidly and I imagine those who do are doing it to get an advantage, like instant swapping to LRC or SDI gear, then swapping back, or instant swapping to Luck gear for a kill, then swapping back to fight the next mob. This sounds like it will penalize those that are exploiting the dress macro, while not harming those of us that don't (which is how all fixes should be).

The only concern I have is if this will affect weapon swaps as well. Right now, the EC has an "Equip Weapon" macro, which essentially just changes your weapon out without a delay. I can press my macro for Bladed Staff, and it will swap my Double Axe and my Bladed Staff. I can then use the "Equip Last Weapon" macro, again for an instant weapon swap. Will weapon swaps now create a 1s delay? (Unequip > 1s Delay > Equip New Weapon > 1s Delay before you can swap again). I am fine with 1s delay AFTER the swap to prevent rapidly switching weapons, but I hope that the current 'Equip Weapon' and 'Swap Weapon' macros stay the same and do not create a 1s delay between un-equipping and re-equipping a new weapon.

On production currently, any Equip Item action for a single item has a 1-second delay. The Equip Last Weapon action does not have a delay.

Does it affect spell casting

Khyro

Bleak said:

Khyro said:

Bleak said:

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

This sounds reasonable and acceptable. This sounds like it will not affect dressing after death, which is where a lot of concern was coming in.

I personally have never swapped suits rapidly and I imagine those who do are doing it to get an advantage, like instant swapping to LRC or SDI gear, then swapping back, or instant swapping to Luck gear for a kill, then swapping back to fight the next mob. This sounds like it will penalize those that are exploiting the dress macro, while not harming those of us that don't (which is how all fixes should be).

The only concern I have is if this will affect weapon swaps as well. Right now, the EC has an "Equip Weapon" macro, which essentially just changes your weapon out without a delay. I can press my macro for Bladed Staff, and it will swap my Double Axe and my Bladed Staff. I can then use the "Equip Last Weapon" macro, again for an instant weapon swap. Will weapon swaps now create a 1s delay? (Unequip > 1s Delay > Equip New Weapon > 1s Delay before you can swap again). I am fine with 1s delay AFTER the swap to prevent rapidly switching weapons, but I hope that the current 'Equip Weapon' and 'Swap Weapon' macros stay the same and do not create a 1s delay between un-equipping and re-equipping a new weapon.

On production currently, any Equip Item action for a single item has a 1-second delay. The Equip Last Weapon action does not have a delay.

At the risk of getting something inadvertently nerfed, below is a video showing no delay on standard "Equip Weapon" macros. There is a delay after using the macro that prevents you from spamming actions (which I don't have a problem with), but there is no delay between the weapon un-equipping and re-equipping, the swap is instant.



If this behavior is going to remain the same with the new Dress changes, then I don't have any concerns. In either case, I look forward to testing when this goes to TC!

Bleak

Khyro said:

Bleak said:

Khyro said:

Bleak said:

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

This sounds reasonable and acceptable. This sounds like it will not affect dressing after death, which is where a lot of concern was coming in.

I personally have never swapped suits rapidly and I imagine those who do are doing it to get an advantage, like instant swapping to LRC or SDI gear, then swapping back, or instant swapping to Luck gear for a kill, then swapping back to fight the next mob. This sounds like it will penalize those that are exploiting the dress macro, while not harming those of us that don't (which is how all fixes should be).

The only concern I have is if this will affect weapon swaps as well. Right now, the EC has an "Equip Weapon" macro, which essentially just changes your weapon out without a delay. I can press my macro for Bladed Staff, and it will swap my Double Axe and my Bladed Staff. I can then use the "Equip Last Weapon" macro, again for an instant weapon swap. Will weapon swaps now create a 1s delay? (Unequip > 1s Delay > Equip New Weapon > 1s Delay before you can swap again). I am fine with 1s delay AFTER the swap to prevent rapidly switching weapons, but I hope that the current 'Equip Weapon' and 'Swap Weapon' macros stay the same and do not create a 1s delay between un-equipping and re-equipping a new weapon.

On production currently, any Equip Item action for a single item has a 1-second delay. The Equip Last Weapon action does not have a delay.

At the risk of getting something inadvertently nerfed, below is a video showing no delay on standard "Equip Weapon" macros. There is a delay after using the macro that prevents you from spamming actions (which I don't have a problem with), but there is no delay between the weapon un-equipping and re-equipping, the swap is instant.



If this behavior is going to remain the same with the new Dress changes, then I don't have any concerns. In either case, I look forward to testing when this goes to TC!

Correct any delays that have been mentioned occur after actions are used.

Khyro

Bleak said:

Correct any delays that have been mentioned occur after actions are used.

Excellent. Thank you for taking the time to clarify!

Az_

I currently use the Dress macro to switch between demon slayer and undead slayer talismans on my fighter in doom.  Each dress macro has only 1 item ( the talisman)  this allows me to use any armor/weapon currently equipped and only switch the talisman for the appropriate target.

With the new dress macro, will I be standing unarmed and naked except for the talisman?  or will it just switch talisman as it does now?

If I add all the equipment to both macros will I be naked for 1 second between undress and dress?

cobb

I am glad that in pvm, functional luck suits with real stats will become relevant again. 

Mervyn

Az_ said:

I currently use the Dress macro to switch between demon slayer and undead slayer talismans on my fighter in doom.  Each dress macro has only 1 item ( the talisman)  this allows me to use any armor/weapon currently equipped and only switch the talisman for the appropriate target.

With the new dress macro, will I be standing unarmed and naked except for the talisman?  or will it just switch talisman as it does now?

If I add all the equipment to both macros will I be naked for 1 second between undress and dress?

No you won’t be naked. You will only be naked if you do set to undress all. You can set what items get unequipped in EC, will presume the same will be true for CC.

cobb

seems some people are not even reading the proposed solution and proceed directly to ranting against this change. 

Xare

Bleak said:

Maximus_Neximus said:

Xare said:

Kyronix said:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.

You hit your undress macro and it will have a 1s delay until you're undressed. You hit dress and you have a delay of 1s per item until you're fully dressed.

This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.

Oh.  I'm perfectly ok with this if it maintains that.  It puts the penalty on the 2nd undress, with the intent of making suit switching time consuming, effectively removing any penalty gained. 

Just to further clarify, if the macro is just a dress macro, the 1 second per item delay goes into effect, but has no impact on any other game play other than trying to undress?

Pawain

Sounds fair. 2 seconds to change suits.  So since this does not affect the play in Trammel that posters are complaining about: (someone switching from a fighting suit to a Luck suit.)   

Can this be a Fel only change? Since the codes are already in place. 

Miss E brought up examples where this will hinder when ressing the normal way we have been doing for years. Also she has no Tram.  Let Siege players vote on the delay.

Pawain

Mervyn said:

Pawain, why would they make it fel only when most of the abuse of it is in tram in PvE?

Sounds fair. 2 second delay in tram like I said. No delay in Fel since this is not an issue in Fel.

But it needs to be tested for ressing issues and Siege wont get the delay.

So is it a Tram or Fel issue?

Pawain

Exactly what will it fix in Tram?  This stops no player from putting on a luck suit.   Is there other issues in Tram that I don't know about?  I could put on a luck suit before a Boss dies replacing 1 piece at a time.  Be not aggroed and/or invisble while you change.

Mervyn

Then do so, that is the game. 


But but you now may find those legendary items that already have luck on, a little more useful/valuable.

cobb

I believe many ppl will enjoy building a good functional luck suit. It will provide many hours of fun. Also this change will make crafters more important.

Pawain

cobb said:

I believe many ppl will enjoy building a good functional luck suit. It will provide many hours of fun. Also this change will make crafters more important.

Nobody changes into their luck suit while being attacked.  On a boss the damage was done you could stop fighting and the others kill it.  A solo person will do whatever they did before.

A T Hunter is switching out of the luck suit and into a fighting suit.

Nobody will be getting a new Luck suit.  And the people doing this have collected the pieces for years, they have good stats.

cobb

Pawain said:

Exactly what will it fix in Tram?  This stops no player from putting on a luck suit.   Is there other issues in Tram that I don't know about?  I could put on a luck suit before a Boss dies replacing 1 piece at a time.  Be not aggroed and/or invisble while you change.

So what exactly is your complaint then? I thought you guys were complaining because you wouldn't  be able to use your luck suit. But now you are saying it wont affect your gameplay at all. So which is it?

Seems you're just being vocal because of who is posting.

Mervyn

Pawain, if its any consolation, I’m sure the devs and moderators cringe when they have to agree with me and exhaust all other possible avenues before doing so. 

Pawain

I have no idea what this fixes in Tram.  Why so we need something that does nothing?

I'm glad it is you and he that can give no reason this should be implemented in Tram.

You want the devs to change a code that does not fix this so called bug that players can switch suits.  I'm confused.

Cetric

where is the VvV update!?

Cetric

on the dress macro stuff.

I'm of firm opinion that swapping weapons should be instant without delay as it is in EC today.  Any other dress/change action should have delay.

Swapping entire suits instantly is asking for trouble.  but weapons should be allowed to cycle seamlessly and instantly.  I dont want to have to disarm, equip fork, disarm equip kryss, disarm equip lance, etc.  Being able to instantly swap weapons is crucial and the CC handles this archaically. 

Parnoc

Please leave PVM alone, this is a valuable feature and not just for luck suits, why does PVP have to set the rules for the majority of us that do not PVP?