Undress/Dress Macro Addition to Classic Client

KyronixKyronix Posts: 205Dev
edited September 27 in General Discussions
Greetings,

As many of you have read in our last newsletter, the Classic Client is slated for an update which will allow access to an Undress/Dress macro similar to the current functionality in the Enhanced Client.  We had slated this change for 102, however, due to the nature of this change we would have to bypass our normal release scheme of TC->Origin etc->World Wide which would not allow a feedback period before this feature was released worldwide via server and both clients.  Before we proceed with this change, we would like to garner feedback.  

Currently the undress/dress macro allows for a one second delay between each macro action.  With the addition of this ability in the CC, there would be an increased delay after the redress macro dependent on the number of items attempting to be reequipped.  This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance.  This delay is in line with the current action-use delays you normally experience in the world.

To be clear, the flow of the macro, in both clients, would look like this:

Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

We expect there will be passionate opinions on both sides, so we are encouraging you to have another look at the posting guidelines before you reply.  Remember there's another human behind the keyboard and to keep things respectful.  We look forward to your feedback.
«13456

Comments

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 944
    edited September 27
    Sounds brilliant. A win for logic, reason, and a win for the game. Kyronix does it again. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002
  • XareXare Posts: 68
    So, penalize the EC users because CC is limited.  I do not approve, for what its worth. 

    Going forward, can we expect there to be a push to one client or the other, or will there be a consistent attempt to balance the clients?  The answer matters.
  • SkettSkett Posts: 158
    edited September 27
    Please eliminate it altogether 

    if if we are forced to have to carry extra suits to play this in a competitive way don’t you think maybe just maybe it’s gotten a little to complicated and should maybe rethink the balance with luck (because after all this is most of why they switch suits) 

    if not not make it have a 5 minute cool down and not possible during battle AT ALL until at least 5 minutes has past after battle 

    While we are at it please cap skill points at 750 MAX 

    flam away 
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 944
    edited September 27
    Xare said:
    So, penalize the EC users because CC is limited.  I do not approve, for what its worth. 

    Going forward, can we expect there to be a push to one client or the other, or will there be a consistent attempt to balance the clients?  The answer matters.
    I don't know this for sure, but i'll make assumptions that it IS possible to make undress/dress in CC without a delay. (Just that the delay was added for obvious reasons)
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002
  • XareXare Posts: 68
    Kyronix said:
      This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance. 
    Bold for emphasis.  Implies that its not possible to do with the current coding in CC.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 944
    edited September 27
    currently there is no dress/undress maco at all in CC so they could've added a delay in dressing in EC without adding a dress/undress macro in CC to increase parity and maintain balance. I'm guessing, again not sure, they are just doing it at the same time whilst they're touching the coding.

    I have a question though, the macro flow implies the need to undress before dress. Is this the case? If so that is very very good. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002
  • jaytinjaytin Posts: 255
    I was happy for the CC to get this feature but not if it's going to negatively impact what the EC already has. 
  • Nobody cares about this outside PvP. Restrict the change nerf to Fel, or those actively engaged in PvP.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 944
    edited September 27
    Nobody cares about this outside PvP. Restrict the change nerf to Fel, or those actively engaged in PvP.
    I would say it was more of an issue in PvM than PvP, according to most of the people on these forums, hardly anyone pvps anyway. My beef with it was mainly focused on PvMers abusing dress/undress. I'm not fussed whether or not the feature is added in CC since you can do it with third party programs anyway. The delay being added was the biggest win for the community.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002
  • LordGandalfLordGandalf Posts: 13
    edited September 27
    Hi Kyronix, 1st of all i would like to thank you and the UO team for your love and commitment for always making UO a better place.

    I personally think that 1sec delay per item is very annoying on CC, and insta switching full suits is very OP on EC client.

    In order to make it fair for both clients, i suggest that both clients get 0 delay for dress and undress macros. HOWEVER! whenever a player dresses/undresses a base armor part excluding weapons, talismans, sandals or cloak the player will be a subject of the following debuff:
    -60ss
    -100di
    -2Faster casting
    -Running mode toggled off

    for 3-5seconds timer

    This debuff will also create pvp balance by penalizing EC players from instantly switching suits in the middle of the battle.

    This will mainly fix other problems on the go related to:
    -instantly switching to bestial suits
    -instantly switching to fc4/fcr6 items to cast animal form
    -dexers instantly switching to mage suits to cast magery/necro spells (curse, corpse skin etc..)
    -instantly switching to luck suits before killing a mob

    Thank you

  • Mervyn said:
    Nobody cares about this outside PvP. Restrict the change nerf to Fel, or those actively engaged in PvP.
    I would say it was more of an issue in PvM than PvP, according to most of the people on these forums, hardly anyone pvps anyway. My beef with it was mainly focused on PvMers abusing dress/undress. I'm not fussed whether or not the feature is added in CC since you can do it with third party programs anyway. The delay being added was the biggest win for the community.
    I know lots of people who PvP, there's something of a resurgence of it on GL right now.

    I don't see why PvEers would desire this change or how it would "benefit the community." I don't think the mobs are sitting around griping about players switching into a luck suit before a boss dies.

    It's a tiny but vocal minority injecting more needless tedium.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 944
    pretty sure you still only have to press one button to switch suits.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002
  • XareXare Posts: 68
    Hi Kyronix, 1st of all i would like to thank you and the UO team for your love and commitment for always making UO a better place.

    I personally think that 1sec delay per item is very annoying on CC, and insta switching full suits is very OP on EC client.

    In order to make it fair for both clients, i suggest that both clients get 0 delay for dress and undress macros. HOWEVER! whenever a player dresses/undresses a base armor part excluding weapons, talismans, sandals or cloak the player will be a subject of the following debuff:
    -60ss
    -100di
    -2Faster casting
    -Running mode toggled off

    for 3-5seconds timer

    This debuff will also create pvp balance by penalizing EC players from instantly switching suits in the middle of the battle.

    This will mainly fix other problems on the go related to:
    -instantly switching to bestial suits
    -instantly switching to fc4/fcr6 items to cast animal form
    -dexers instantly switching to mage suits to cast magery/necro spells (curse, corpse skin etc..)
    -instantly switching to luck suits before killing a mob

    Thank you

    Respectfully, I feel like that would overly complicate and make this more of a chore than anything.
  • I feel like the 1s per item is too long. Let's say that my mage dies and is immediately resurrected using Gift of Life (an issue for another day). If I can't easily double click my corpse, for me to get fully dressed it would take 15 seconds. Odds are I either won't have the mana or lrc to heal during this time, not even considering my casting would get interrupted while getting dressed. In this scenario, I've more than likely been rez-killed before I can do anything.

    I would consider dropping it to 1/2s per item, or maybe even less if out of combat.
  • XareXare Posts: 68
    Kyronix said:

    Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

    Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.
  • Xare said:
    Kyronix said:

    Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

    Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.
    You hit your undress macro and it will have a 1s delay until you're undressed. You hit dress and you have a delay of 1s per item until you're fully dressed.
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 276
    I don't really have a dog in this race...or a horse....or whatever :) But I will say that the ONLY reason I use UOA is for the dress macro...sometimes you are unable to get to your corpse right away and since I use the CC, finding that last ring or bracelet under your pile of runebooks is a royal pain! lol so the dress macro in UOA is a life saver for me...and THAT macro does have a 1 second delay for each item that it has to put on. I don't know if you can change that, I never looked, but the delay is really negligible considering the alternative...also with the UOA macro you can move while it's dressing you so I usually get on my ethy, hit the macro and start bookin it back to my bod! 

    Now....I haven't PvP'd in forever...since Yew Gate...yeah that's awhile...but I can see how movement while dressing/undressing would effect PvP since  you can switch on the run..while I would hate for that not to be possible, I can see how disallowing movement while dressing would be a good thing...if you want to switch suits mid-battle you're gonna be caught with your pants down..literally! Until you're fully dressed so I think that might deter people from using it in pvp.

  • SlissSliss Posts: 94
    I disagree with this proposal.
    Being able to switch suits mid-battle is a good mechanic for the following reasons:
    1) it allows for more engaging combat. There are more things to do and think about. It is not an I-win button a some like to mis-represent. Switching to an SDI or luck suit at the wrong time will get you killed.
    2) it gives players dozens if not hundreds of hours of things to do, namely to farm multiple suits instead of just one for their multiple characters. 
    3) It's a pretty decent gold sync. I carry 3 suits on each of my caster and tamer characters. With prized items, each death is about 30k. It adds up very quickly when you die a lot (events, etc.).

    The negatives that this change will produce:
    1) People will stop carrying multiple suits. There is little point when the change takes 12 seconds. Everyone will run around in an all-70s luck suits. Fights will take longer and be more boring. The dress function will be relegated to dressing up after resurrection.
    2) PvPers will keep complaining about CC and EC not being functionally equal. Since they will never be functionally equal (partially due to some illegal 3rd party software available to CC), you are inviting more demands of your time that is best spent elsewhere.
    3) Mervyn will become happy for about 10 minutes, and will devote even more time to making life miserable for the rest of the players righting injustices that nobody cares about. 
  • cobbcobb Posts: 114
    The proposed solution sounds good to me! I am glad the devs are listening to the player base
  • PawainPawain Posts: 598
    So Mervyn is 1 step closer to running off the PvPers so he can have his Fel shard.  And Kyronix is aiding it.

    Why not make the CC do the same as EC?  There has only been 1 player complaining about this macro.  

    I guess I need to be more vocal to get some of the pet types buffed so they actually get used.  But more pets would bring more fun to UO.  We cant have that.

    @Kyronix can you post numbers on how many more players are doing the roof after Mervyns changes?
    I would like to see in facts that taking his advice is helping UO.

  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 205Dev
    edited September 28
    Pawain said:
    So Mervyn is 1 step closer to running off the PvPers so he can have his Fel shard.  And Kyronix is aiding it.

    Why not make the CC do the same as EC?  There has only been 1 player complaining about this macro.  

    I guess I need to be more vocal to get some of the pet types buffed so they actually get used.  But more pets would bring more fun to UO.  We cant have that.

    @ Kyronix can you post numbers on how many more players are doing the roof after Mervyns changes?
    I would like to see in facts that taking his advice is helping UO.

    Please keep your comments related to the question posed in the original post and refrain from bringing any personal qualms you have with other posters and keep them to other forms of communication.  
  • PawainPawain Posts: 598
    edited September 28
    I said why not just leave it as is in the EC and move to CC.  

    When something has caused no issues in all the years it has been in the game, why change it.


  • cobbcobb Posts: 114
    edited September 28
    Why? Because insta suit swapping allows you to bypass many game mechanics.

    Also ppl have been complaining about this for a while.

  • MissEMissE Posts: 193
    I use a dress macro to dress after being killed and it includes casting protection on my character put into the macro due to the previous nerf to the protection spell due to PVP whining and resulting in the protection spell being removed by death instead of removal by casting again.  I do not  switch suits during playing. 

    I do NOT want to wait 10-15 seconds for my stuff to be equipped after death and before I can recast my protection spell waiting for armor to be put back on.  This is especially slow if reequipping after a gift of life rez where the mob that killed you is still probably close by.

    I have hat, gloves, gorget, sleeves, legs, tunic, ring, bracelet, earings, apron, robe, cloak, tally, shield, spellbook to equip, that is 15 items, at 1 second apart that is WAY TOO SLOW.  It then needs a delay of 1 second after equipping to cast the spell, so at least 16-17 seconds instead of 2-3 seconds that it currently takes including the spell.

    Sit in your chair now and count out 17 seconds.  It is RIDICULOUSLY SLOW.

    I do NOT believe it is fair to make us (EC USERS) go backwards in what we are doing, people who want it in the cc fine, but if that client is slower it is slower, those of use who use the EC and who have done so since 2009 should NOT be penalized. Everyone has the option to play the EC if they want to do it a bit quicker. If not give an undress/dress macro to the cc users but if it is limited in speed for their client that is their option to play that client.

    There is NO Need to slow the EC down to cater to the CC.  To do so is unfair. Not everyone uses a dress macro to requip amor on the fly for luck bonus's and stuff, it is an issue that is only whined about by a certain FEW, of who whine about anything they can't do.  I don't actually know or even care if anyone does it, if I wanted to I could too, but I seriously think it is complaint about zip.  






  • I do NOT believe it is fair to make us (EC USERS) go backwards in what we are doing, people who want it in the cc fine, but if that client is slower it is slower, those of use who use the EC and who have done so since 2009 should NOT be penalized. Everyone has the option to play the EC if they want to do it a bit quicker. If not give an undress/dress macro to the cc users but if it is limited in speed for their client that is their option to play that client.

    There is NO Need to slow the EC down to cater to the CC. 




    totally agree, but do you mind the 3-5secs penality mentioned in my previous post? i personally can sacrifice with that to allign both clients as long as i can still insta equip
  • jaytinjaytin Posts: 255
    Honestly why do they still listen to this guy, he is making everyone's life miserable and the Dev team are allowing it! Every time a minority decreases the enjoyment of the majority you are going to start losing subs, please don't do this, it's a trend that has become all too apparent in the last couple of years and it has to stop. I don't want to be forced to play Mervyn Online.
  • BleakBleak Posts: 64Dev
    edited September 28
    Xare said:
    Kyronix said:

    Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress -> delay at 1s per item -> Undress -> 1s delay -> Dress

    Can I (we) get some clarification on this?  After rereading this, I'm interpreting this as if a player just as a simple dress macro for after they die, it would equip everything instantly.  If used in a macro that switches gear, it would include a delay based on the number of items after the dress before it was undressed.
    You hit your undress macro and it will have a 1s delay until you're undressed. You hit dress and you have a delay of 1s per item until you're fully dressed.
    This is incorrect. You hit your undress macro which results in you becoming undressed then a 1 second delay which is the same as production. You hit the dress macro which results in all of your items being equipped then a 1 second delay per item before your next undress action.
  • So the dress swap is just as quick as a mannequin, it's the delay in performing it a 2nd time quickly ?
    You and Several Others like this.
    pirate

    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 
  • BleakBleak Posts: 64Dev
    So, if I'm understanding right. You're wearing suit 1 - you swap to suit 2. 1 second to undress, 1 second to dress - and the big delay only comes in if you then decide to switch again, either to a 3rd suit or back to suit 1? 
    Correct

Sign In or Register to comment.