Treasure maps, why does their loot suck so much?

PlayerSkillFTW

Kyronix said:

@ compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

Any thoughts on my suggestion to add a turn-in system for completed maps to build up to a Legendary Map?

"They should just add a Turn-In system for completed T-Maps. Turn in completed T-Maps for points, and you get your choice of a "Legendary" quality T-Map (you can choose the Facet and Package), which is guaranteed to contain nothing but Legendary Artifacts and maybe some new, unique items (deco or gear). That would at least keep T-Hunters cranking out regular maps, so they know they can build up to a guaranteed good map.

Higher level T-Maps would contribute more points than lower level T-Maps, further modified by the Facet (facets with harder spawn would give more points, with Eodon offering the most points for that level of T-Map)."

Urge

That's an interesting idea! Props.

Maybe expand on it to have like a bod reward points system with some other neat rewards?

gay

Ah yes, the BOD system, once fairly intractable yet potentially lucrative, now re-developed in a way intended to combat the scripters by simultaneously making it the most difficult and cancerous version of the system that's ever existed for the attended player.

A classic example of one of the many "welp we touched it already this decade, just be happy with that" revamps we've been blessed with.

Pawain

gay said:

Ah yes, the BOD system, once fairly intractable yet potentially lucrative, now re-developed in a way intended to combat the scripters by simultaneously making it the most difficult and cancerous version of the system that's ever existed for the attended player.

A classic example of one of the many "welp we touched it already this decade, just be happy with that" revamps we've been blessed with.

Are you serious?  Getting a random reward like we used to is better than being able to choose a reward and do the BOD that gets it like we can now.

That is a ridiculous take on BODs.  You clearly do not do them.  I have made many millions on the new Dyes and other rewards they implemented.  PoF is worth getting now, and all you have to do is bride a small up and choose it.

Drakelord

I love doing maps, hate the remove trap part.  even at 100% I fail 4 out 5 times, you should be able to remove trap when at GM level 100% of the time with no fails

McDougle

Pawain said:

gay said:

Ah yes, the BOD system, once fairly intractable yet potentially lucrative, now re-developed in a way intended to combat the scripters by simultaneously making it the most difficult and cancerous version of the system that's ever existed for the attended player.

A classic example of one of the many "welp we touched it already this decade, just be happy with that" revamps we've been blessed with.

Are you serious?  Getting a random reward like we used to is better than being able to choose a reward and do the BOD that gets it like we can now.

That is a ridiculous take on BODs.  You clearly do not do them.  I have made many millions on the new Dyes and other rewards they implemented.  PoF is worth getting now, and all you have to do is bride a small up and choose it.

I think the brokenness comes from the rewards horned kits more desirable than barbed copper and bronze than val etc no runic tinker tools another thing that if done right and was finished could have been fantastic 

Pawain

What?  Barbed kits reforge  awesome armor! Then you can enhance for resists.  We already had a thread about the value of a Val hammer.

Skett

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

Pawain

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

Skett

A lot of gold ? 

Pawain

Skett said:

A lot of gold ? 

Ask for specifics in this thread:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10984/the-value-of-a-valorite-runic-hammer/p1

keven2002

Pawain said:

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

I think you clearly missed that the post was really tongue in cheek and was more of a backhanded shot at unattended bots. I made a ton of stuff on TC1 with a val hammer (using various properties) and nothing I made translated to a weapon better than something I could make with a bronze hammer to get 1 property over strength and imbue the rest. Again I called this out and Yoshi said "yes but it doesn't have the self repair which is invaluable to afk bots". 

You say most of your dexxers wear "crafted armor" but I'd be willing to bet it's imbued armor (possibly reforged with a low end runic); not a reforged piece from a barbed kit / val hammer. I'd actually be willing to bet on it. Feel free to post your pieces that you made with a barbed or val runic (that are not imbued). 

keven2002

Getting back to the topic on hand. I think PlayerSkill has a good idea but even the core foundation of treasure maps would need to be tweaked in order for that to work. Honestly if the core is fixed then idk if we need to add more layers to it because the stuff that comes in hoard/trove maps would become viable.

First problem is that most of the weapons for the professions are terribly obsolete (and I'd argue never were relevant). In a mage chest there are gnarled/quarter staves, in a warrior chest there are things like bardiche/crescent blade/pike etc, and in assassin chest there is a dagger/cutlass. This is also the case with things like skull gnarled staff/long sword and octopus necklace (which I don't even think can be imbued) and ancient weapons which all do nothing (yet come in Trove chest). To top it off, the weapons that actually do spawn are usually have some wasted stat like +4 mana or +6 HPR.

Second problem is that the things included in each level almost seems backwards. You get more desirable stuff in a supply map than a trove map. Don't believe me? Check it out: https://www.uo-cah.com/treasure-map-search?search=package&p=Assassin&f=Trammel#v . In a supply map you can get mapmakers glasses/artifacts/pardons/skele keys/recipes/etc from these maps and don't even need remove trap or lockpicking. Compared to a Trove map: the highest of all maps will give you pinks/blues, arguably the best thing you will get, which also can be in a supply/cache (lower) maps. The legendary gear that could possibly spawn (but doesn't spawn much) will be watered down intensity stuff that is not capable of being used with end game type content. In all honesty, you probably have a better chance looting something off the guardians that guard the chest over what is actually in the chest. 

So how is this fixed?

I think first step is to update the weapons by spawning things people will actually keep/use (even if I were to get a 70% lightning/HLD/HML/HSL/HLL/30SSI clean viking sword it's not going to be used). So this would mean spawn double axes/bladed staves/maces/war hammer/kryss/war fork/comp bows/soul glaives etc that will spawn with usable stats. Next step would be to adjust Trove chests to actually contain something worthy of the highest/hardest chest type there is. I think this is where the game could (re)introduce armor that has str & dex type stats (Animated X of Vitality) . At the very least there needs to be the ability to generate an 8 mod / mostly max intensity pieces.

These fixes are at the fundamental level and would need to be addressed before doing any type of treasure map BOD system because if they don't at least fix the fact that treasure chests legendaries are never even close to max total property weight then it doesn't how many legendary items come in the "reward" chests (and knowing this team, I'm sure they would likely cost a ton of turn in maps).

Arnold7

For a newer player especially, you get some stuff other players actually want from supply chests that is not found in any other kinds of chests. I am thinking tasty treats, pardons, mana orbs, map makers glasses and skeleton keys.  It has always surprised me that these things are not found in other chests.  You actually get stuff you can sell for a good profit.  For example pardons on my shard sell in the one to three million gold range.  It is not difficult to make a mage that can farm these.

You can get better weapons and stuff from the higher level chests but it seems like everyone else has been playing long enough that they already have basically the same stuff so it takes forever to sell it if it sells at all.

As a newer player really appreciated the supply chests.

Note believe you do need remove trap but not lockpicking if you are a mage.  Stash chests and supply chest are great for building your remove trap skill.

gay

I don't think that the solution is to specifically work on a system that only spawns stuff on things that players feel is useful, but instead to develop a system that incorporates the generation of gear with better rolled mods and the intensity of those mods overall.

Also, viking swords are lit, their base damage is nice.Paralyze and Crushing aren't bad specials when used correctly (in PvP).

But for example, if an effort was put forward to clean up the loot table, something like +n% Durability should be removed, durability hasn't served a purpose since PoF came out. It's a wasted mod with neither a purpose initially nor at end game.

Another mod would be Lower Requirements, again something that honestly never served a purpose to begin with, it was a good idea that was quickly outpaced by the evolution of players and how the importance of strength was so easily prioritized.

Resistances and Enhanced Potions on weapons, niche but laughably out of place.

gay

Arnold7 said:

For a newer player especially, you get some stuff other players actually want from supply chests that is not found in any other kinds of chests. I am thinking tasty treats, pardons, mana orbs, map makers glasses and skeleton keys.  It has always surprised me that these things are not found in other chests.  You actually get stuff you can sell for a good profit.  For example pardons on my shard sell in the one to three million gold range.  It is not difficult to make a mage that can farm these.

You can get better weapons and stuff from the higher level chests but it seems like everyone else has been playing long enough that they already have basically the same stuff so it takes forever to sell it if it sells at all.

As a newer player really appreciated the supply chests.

Note believe you do need remove trap but not lockpicking if you are a mage.  Stash chests and supply chest are great for building your remove trap skill.

Yep, you really do get a significant amount of bang for your buck with the low end chests, and it's why I would generally advise new players on going a treasure hunting route to begin funding themselves while also getting a grasp on some mechanics of the game. It puts them in a position of self farming the maps (I always suggest mobs from the original launch which were notable for dropping maps for low level maps. Things I tell them to pay attention for are clean low mod jewels (10 SSI, 35 DMG, 150 Luck, 18 SDI, etc), refinements, pardons, and glasses. The armor and weapons will almost always be garbage, but that they should use their best judgement and look at the armor pieces other players wear and decide for themselves what is desirable and useful.

That route will always lead to players eventually making the decision to eventually start to buy maps to dig up or continue to farm their own. But learning how to self farm something like maps is a good lesson for any new player to learn, it means that even if they go broke, they still know how to do something to generate wealth on their own.

Pawain

keven2002 said:

Pawain said:

Skett said:

And Val hammer on Pac 8 mil I have 5 at 90 charge I feel they are useless because I already have 9mil clean up points I’ve been sitting on hoping they add something new 

There is another thread where Yoshi told the poster things they could make with them that sold for a lot of gold.

Otherwise they are just like a Barbed kit except they make Metal armor. IMO the cleanup points are worth the Large BOD that makes them.  A bout a bazillion of them have been donated to the tree instead.

Most of my dexxers wear 1 or 2 pieces of crafted armor.

I think you clearly missed that the post was really tongue in cheek and was more of a backhanded shot at unattended bots. I made a ton of stuff on TC1 with a val hammer (using various properties) and nothing I made translated to a weapon better than something I could make with a bronze hammer to get 1 property over strength and imbue the rest. Again I called this out and Yoshi said "yes but it doesn't have the self repair which is invaluable to afk bots". 

You say most of your dexxers wear "crafted armor" but I'd be willing to bet it's imbued armor (possibly reforged with a low end runic); not a reforged piece from a barbed kit / val hammer. I'd actually be willing to bet on it. Feel free to post your pieces that you made with a barbed or val runic (that are not imbued). 

You lost that bet,  I put the pics in a more appropriate thread. 3 toons wear those pieces.

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10984/the-value-of-a-valorite-runic-hammer#latest

popps

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

McDougle

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

popps

McDougle said:

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

Thing is, that the Developers are rather busy, I imagine, with the New Legacy Shard and, to make Eodon Maps worth the time would take a whole lot more work as compared to just replacing Allosaurus with another Creature taking much, much less time to kill....

Perhaps, in the LONG run, for when they have more time at hand to make Eodon Treasure Maps worth the time they could re-introduce Allosaurus but for now that the Developers, I suppose, do not have much time to spend on totally re-adjusting the Loot Table for Eodon Treasure Maps ?

Much quicker fix to get rid of Allosaurus for something else much, MUCH faster to be killed...

McDougle

popps said:

McDougle said:

popps said:

Drago said:

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

I bumped into this Thread from last Year https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9692/whoever-added-the-allosaurus-to-eodon-t-map-spawn-hates-treasure-hunters asking to remove Allosaurus from Eodon Treasure Maps because they make these Treasure Maps way, but way too much time consuming to do for the little that they give.

Basically, not worth the hassle.....

@ Kyronix , could you please remove them and change them with a more feasible and killable creature ? Thanks.

Don't take away make them worth the time 

Thing is, that the Developers are rather busy, I imagine, with the New Legacy Shard and, to make Eodon Maps worth the time would take a whole lot more work as compared to just replacing Allosaurus with another Creature taking much, much less time to kill....

Perhaps, in the LONG run, for when they have more time at hand to make Eodon Treasure Maps worth the time they could re-introduce Allosaurus but for now that the Developers, I suppose, do not have much time to spend on totally re-adjusting the Loot Table for Eodon Treasure Maps ?

Much quicker fix to get rid of Allosaurus for something else much, MUCH faster to be killed...

I'm sorry but if they are still so busy "working " on Nl to even release a newsletter for months we have serious issues..

creampie

map are a very good way to get pink scrolls and they sell good