Treasure maps, why does their loot suck so much?

TimSt

If you are looking for legendaries do cache maps with +5 cartography glasses on because you are more likely to get a gold chest than if you are doing hoard or trove maps. I've dug up gold cache chests with nothing but legendaries in them with only 1800 in luck.

McDougle

So wearing the +5 cartography glasses more important than the luck from my normal headgear? 

TimSt

McDougle said:

So wearing the +5 cartography glasses more important than the luck from my normal headgear? 

Yes because the glasses improve your chances of getting a gold chest. Gold chests have more loot and the loot is generally better.

Imbue luck onto your glasses and you get the luck boost as well.

Arnold7

Don’t have a lot of luck on my suit but also get mostly gold cache chests using the plus 5 glasses.  Thanks for the post.  That might explain why the Fel ones usually contain more 110 scrolls than the hoards and troves.  Was thinking it was just my imagination but that explains it.  Very rarely get a black cache chest.

Drago

Arnold7 said:

Note don’t do Endon chests based on what I have read the rate of return on those does not justify the effort it would take to kill off the spawn.

agreed. I throw eodon tmaps into trash.  Its waste of time. Better to get clean-up points.

compass

The intensity of the treasure maps just needs to be turned up a bit for it to be modestly in line with the above mentioned 24/7 farmed locations.

You can pull legendaries from Cache/Horde/Trove - but they can not have 8 mods - only 7 max. 

It just needs a slight bump in intensity and it would greatly increase the replay value of a really nicely revamped system. 

Skett

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

gay

I mean yeah sure, the lesser chests are laughably easy. The top end Ilshenar/Eodon ones though? Not so much, they can take far longer to do than any other encounter in game. It's really just a bit of a slap in the face to spend that much time and effort into something that yields nothing. A system like that works with monsters because monsters respawn and can be camped for days on end. Each treasure map is something that has to be located, dug up, monsters dealt with, unlocked, and untrapped. It's not as re-occurring as farming mobs for loot, and thus should have a guaranteed loot threshold greater than what it is now.

As it is, I have eight davies lockers full of maps that I have zero desire or intention of hunting.

popps

compass said:

The intensity of the treasure maps just needs to be turned up a bit for it to be modestly in line with the above mentioned 24/7 farmed locations.

You can pull legendaries from Cache/Horde/Trove - but they can not have 8 mods - only 7 max. 

It just needs a slight bump in intensity and it would greatly increase the replay value of a really nicely revamped system. 

And to think that, in the game, there is quite a number of players having and enjoying Legendaries with 12 mods (no longer obtainable....).

I think that the Developers should be worried how, such a disparity among players that may deter some players to want to deal with a game where their progression is heavily uphill and to the point that they cannot even get anywhere close to Veteran players since there is powerfull items which no longer are obtainable in the game, such as 12 mods Legendaries.... hurts the game, rather then help it....

popps

Skett said:

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

Did the Developers ever tried dealing with a Trove Map and its Guardians with  a normal character not in God mode ?

Quite a task, effort and time consuming.... and for what ? The junk loot that players lament....

Arnold7

My mage with 120 magery, 120 eval (110 actual plus a wizards curio), 100 resist, med. cart.,
and 95 lockpicking and remove trap can solo troves so you don’t need a super player.  Troves take a while sometimes.  I don’t do the Endon or Lish. troves but I do all the others.  I rarely get killed and always have plenty of time left over to loot the chest.  His armor consists mostly of the better drops from monsters and chests.

But agree the game’s owners should be concerned about the disparity between longtime players and newer players.  Maybe that’s part of the rational behind The NL shard having everyone starting from scratch.

McDougle

Arnold7 said:

My mage with 120 magery, 120 eval (110 actual plus a wizards curio), 100 resist, med. cart.,
and 95 lockpicking and remove trap can solo troves so you don’t need a super player.  Troves take a while sometimes.  I don’t do the Endon or Lish. troves but I do all the others.  I rarely get killed and always have plenty of time left over to loot the chest.  His armor consists mostly of the better drops from monsters and chests.

But agree the game’s owners should be concerned about the disparity between longtime players and newer players.  Maybe that’s part of the rational behind The NL shard having everyone starting from scratch.

How does NL  help so a new player finishes a season on par with vets then has to pick a shard and suddenly is a second class citizen 

keven2002

The new player will have a pretty cool title though that shows they played NL; and maybe even a trinket! 

compass

Skett said:

This has been asked for already 
I think the reasoning is it’s not as much effort as other encounters that spawn 8 mods to justify it so 7 mods is what the max is on chest. I disagree. 

I want to expound on this a bit to hopefully provide @Kyronix with additional perspective if this interests him:


If you consider each chest takes at minimum 5-6 minutes (dig + guardians + lockpick + remove trap skilled disarm) and that they have 12 magical items in it.

In 6 minutes you can solo on 1 single character in a modest luck/samp suit:
45 Szavetra 
6 lurg
70 Fan Dancer
[etc]

So the sheer volume of higher tiered magical items is exponentially higher.   By the time you pop that chest to look at the 12 magical items in it you could be effortlessly killed over 300-350 magical items.


That's not to say treasure chests need to be better than monster loot - you do get all of the additional items, resources, decor, scrolls, etc -  but the highest replay aspect of the system will be the magical weapons/armor/jewels, so I think there's a suitable case to adjust it to be in line with far less effort intensive systems.

Kyronix

@compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

gay

Kyronix said:

@ compass - that's a good point.  It would be nice if there was greater parity between encounters on the kind of loot you could get.  Given the nature of updates to systems over the years (different teams, different goals, different outcomes) it's really challenging to do that.  The t-map update sought to address several issues with the encounters overall, after having percolated for a quite a bit another pass is probably warranted - but there are so many cogs in the wheel at this point that balancing on live in situations like this quickly creates balloons in scope.  Thanks for the feedback.

Holy $#!%, is that a dev? Or was my coffee spiked?

Urge

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

Yoshi

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

“Medium end armor is still desirable as there are some mods that just don’t appear on high end legendary armor, namely luck 150, RPD, and HCI”

Skett

@Kyronix can you check the loot for SoS and AoS as well those are really really hard encounters  

Urge

Yoshi said:

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

“Medium end armor is still desirable as there are some mods that just don’t appear on high end legendary armor, namely luck 150, RPD, and HCI”

Right but i never get any of that either. I'll usually get armor so low i wouldn't even give it to a new player. I do get some nice jewels. 

popps

Urge said:

If you're going to look at loot tables again, i might add the system never rolls quality armor for non "end game" mobs. There are some nice rolls for jewels and weps but i have personally never gotten any sort of usable armor. 

Whichit is a pity since, due to the different types of Treasure Maps in both professions and Facets, Treasure Maps could be made a very good way for players to look for and find, the type of specific Armor which they need.....

Of course, if that armor was to be any good for players to want to keep and use it, that is....

Urge

popps said:

Whichit is a pity since, due to the different types of Treasure Maps in both professions and Facets, Treasure Maps could be made a very good way for players to look for and find, the type of specific Armor which they need.....

Of course, if that armor was to be any good for players to want to keep and use it, that is....

I wasn't speaking for tmaps. I'm talking about random rolls on dungeon monsters. Ancient wyrms, daemons, balrons ect. I have never got one usable piece of armor off any of those. 

Example of a paragon ancient wyrm i just killed. Unusable for any template compared to difficulty to kill.

Arnold7

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

popps

Arnold7 said:

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

 And what is the consequence of such Game Design choices if nothing other that then, either players need to spend countless entertainment time of their life pursuing those better items if they want to remain competitive in the game or, resort to third party applications which permit to script those tasks in that game, perhaps even AFK and thus not having to spend so much of their time ? Or just quit playing that game because too much of a drain of their time ?

Hours and hours and hours, sometimes even days if not weeks or months of one's own life for some pixels ? Are we serious, really ?

Pawain

popps said:

Arnold7 said:

Pretty sure the process for creating drops you get from killing stuff is pretty much random although the nature of the drops is influenced by the general area and the level of the monster you just killed.  For example, in Tel Mur you get mostly gargoyle stuff.  I get mostly the same kind of junk too but if I kill enough I usually get something much better than that, that I can use or sell.  That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

That’s just the way the game works.  Mostly you get crap but not always.

 And what is the consequence of such Game Design choices if nothing other that then, either players need to spend countless entertainment time of their life pursuing those better items if they want to remain competitive in the game or, resort to third party applications which permit to script those tasks in that game, perhaps even AFK and thus not having to spend so much of their time ? Or just quit playing that game because too much of a drain of their time ?

Hours and hours and hours, sometimes even days if not weeks or months of one's own life for some pixels ? Are we serious, really ?

Exactly. In the 25 years UO has been out I have probably finished 1000 games that I never play again because they have an end game.

The only games that last 25 years do not have a way to get to an end of game.  Getting an uber suit would be end of game.  But they keep adding to what is uber. So we keep playing.

Play on Test center if you want to win UO.  then you can move to something else.

Rintar

THunting is one of the most lucratives activities in Uo.... But it takes times:

*PS scroll in Fel. True, no 120 but u can use merge 105/110 or sell 110 or use them in ur chars or ur Pets. 110 scrolls like Ana, tactics, wrest, parrying are quite expensive (Eu/Atl shard player here)

*Money. Is true u can get more money in a champ or Shadow but after long time figthing

*Ala/Trans scrolls. Save u time or money. Skills such necro, ninji, bushido, magery, spellw and taming are expensive too

*Jewells save ur money for imbuing or u can sell them too

*Stuff like rings, armor, etc. I drop all in a container for imbuing training or get residues, esences, etc. Good way for Clean Britain point (slow, tho)

*Find new/good pets like Frost dragon or cold drake

Could be t hunting more lucrative? Yes but is enougth for playing and make money without high risk for ur chars

popps

Rintar said:

THunting is one of the most lucratives activities in Uo.... But it takes times:

*PS scroll in Fel. True, no 120 but u can use merge 105/110 or sell 110 or use them in ur chars or ur Pets. 110 scrolls like Ana, tactics, wrest, parrying are quite expensive (Eu/Atl shard player here)

*Money. Is true u can get more money in a champ or Shadow but after long time figthing

*Ala/Trans scrolls. Save u time or money. Skills such necro, ninji, bushido, magery, spellw and taming are expensive too

*Jewells save ur money for imbuing or u can sell them too

*Stuff like rings, armor, etc. I drop all in a container for imbuing training or get residues, esences, etc. Good way for Clean Britain point (slow, tho)

*Find new/good pets like Frost dragon or cold drake

Could be t hunting more lucrative? Yes but is enougth for playing and make money without high risk for ur chars

*PS scroll in Fel. True, no 120 but u can use merge 105/110 or sell 110 or use them in ur chars or ur Pets. 110 scrolls like Ana, tactics, wrest, parrying are quite expensive (Eu/Atl shard player here)

It really is unrealistic to even want to "think" about making a 120 out of Treasure Maps powerscrolls...

The mathematics involved is prohibitive, unfortunately....

It takes 12 x 110s to make 1 x 115 and then, 10 x 115s to make a 120 Powerscroll.

That makes it 120 same type 110s for a 120 Powerscroll.

Say that one was to want to make a 120 Wrestling, can you imagine the time it would take to find 120 Wrestling 110s in Treasure Chests ?

There is many skills that the 110s can spawn as in a Treasure Chest so, only 1 chest out of X treasure Maps will have a 110 Wrestling and this chance needs to be reproduced 120 times in order to finally make that 120 Wrestling....

Say that the chances to have a 110 Wrestling Powerscroll in a Treasure Chest are 1 out of 20, this chance will need to come true 120 times which this means having to find and dig up some 2,400 Treasure Maps.... and this, just for one 120 Wrestling Powerscroll !!

Of course, this is totally unrealistic.....

As I have always said, Treasure Chests should have been made capable of spawning also 115 Powerscrolls. THEN, it would have become more feasible and realistic to make 120s with Treasure Chests findings albeit still time consuming and requiring a significant effort.

But as of now, with 110s being the CAP, it is simply unrealistic.... the mathematics involved is way, way too prohibitive and impossible, realistically.

Rintar

I love when u read a post using any excuse for complain about everything.

I didnt say play THunting just for merging 120 PS. No. I said is a lucrative activity in game involving all my list above: Jewells, money, imbuing, Ps, Soa, Sot, Pets, etc.

If u play for 120, go to champ. If u wanna improve ur economy, slow, obviously, with low risk: T Hunting.

Again what i am saying is: He is rigth about armors and weps quality.  But is no the best part of Treasure Hunting

Pawain

I buy 110 pet scrolls to resell all the time.

Rintar

I dig and buy them. I have 8 tamers to feed