Poll and discussion : VvV arties on Siege

Garth_Grey · March 2018

Drakelord said:

You know that Siege voted No at Stratics, and here its a bunch of Bandits trying to roll that vote over by logging extra accounts, posing as players from that shards to get VvV items on Siege, I hope the staff of Broadsword see what this really is, an attempt to sneak in under the wire and get their way here. For your information, I voted "NO".

There are long term players with a sincere interest in seeing Siege succeed, that are also voting for this. Your No reply is no different than the Yes replies you're preaching about.

MrTibs · March 2018

Drakelord said:

You know that Siege voted No at Stratics, and here its a bunch of Bandits trying to roll that vote over by logging extra accounts, posing as players from that shards to get VvV items on Siege, I hope the staff of Broadsword see what this really is, an attempt to sneak in under the wire and get their way here. For your information, I voted "NO".

I never saw any stratics vote, because I do not read, or post at stratics, like many other UO players, from many shards, including Siege. That stratics vote obviously does not seem to represent the population that is posting here at the official Broadsword forums, nor of the population that is currently playing Siege Perilous. Things change.

I_was_there_recently · March 2018

In my eyes... Siege is special ... and the community is much nicer then on other shards... cause not everyone is moaning and claiming to be the "Best PVP god" you ever saw.....

The PVP which spills now on Siege ... are mainly the guys, who are running for the fast wins. - And then starting the same in "gen chat" conversation they already do on other shards.

One of the reasons they didn´t do that in the past is.. They need to work on Siege for the armor. And there is no fast win.

I prefer to have not the VvV arties...

Frawg · March 2018

Work hard for our armor? You guys who complain about access to VvV artifacts...do nothing but PVM all day just to lock an item down on your floor. We actually use these items and risk losing entire suits daily to other players, not the minor risk of a monster maybe looting your gloves. Stop acting like you guys own the shard, a lot of us are long time players, myself since 99’ our opinion is just as valuable as yours. We came from very successful guilds on the most populated shards. Deal with the progression.

Real_Chargar · March 2018

Becca said:

That is a fake chargar and what she is saying is to disparage Gilfane. She has been around for about a month imitating chargar,

So because I'm not the chargar you want me to be? This makes me a "fake" chargar?

Also lol@Hoffs for posting on GIL forums claiming i should be banned for the same reason. Nothing banable about making a forum account named after your character(who by the way is probably older than the fake chargar you recruited). If you weren't an older male pretending to be a female, your sense of entitlement would have me believe you were a millennial

Becca · March 2018

I said you were fake because from your post you were insinuating that you were from the Gilfane guild and you are not in Gilfane

Drakelord · March 2018

MrTibs said:

I actually think they should stay exactly the same, this way there won't be some out of control flood of antique artifacts that anybody in VvV can use, which would essentially make their normal counterparts obsolete for a large portion of the playerbase. Having them usable only by a single person keeps up the need to do towns, and won't bloat the artifact market. Making a persons VvV artifacts wearable by anybody is actually the worst thing that could happen.

I totally disagree. Making such artifacts that are wearable by everyone will ensure that there is a market. If Joe kills Larry and loots his Totum and its marked for Larry then Joe has two choices, ransom it back to Larry or throw it away. But if the artifacts are wearable by all then a third choice is open, selling it on a Vendor.

Critical · March 2018

MrTibs said:

I actually think they should stay exactly the same, this way there won't be some out of control flood of antique artifacts that anybody in VvV can use, which would essentially make their normal counterparts obsolete for a large portion of the playerbase. Having them usable only by a single person keeps up the need to do towns, and won't bloat the artifact market. Making a persons VvV artifacts wearable by anybody is actually the worst thing that could happen.

That's actually a pretty good point. Never looked at it like that, but if they stay as-original then the actual character that needs them is forced to farm them. Meaning -- you can't just sit there hiding all day stealing sigs to suit your whole guild with arties

MrTibs · March 2018

Drakelord said:

MrTibs said:

I actually think they should stay exactly the same, this way there won't be some out of control flood of antique artifacts that anybody in VvV can use, which would essentially make their normal counterparts obsolete for a large portion of the playerbase. Having them usable only by a single person keeps up the need to do towns, and won't bloat the artifact market. Making a persons VvV artifacts wearable by anybody is actually the worst thing that could happen.

I totally disagree. Making such artifacts that are wearable by everyone will ensure that there is a market. If Joe kills Larry and loots his Totum and its marked for Larry then Joe has two choices, ransom it back to Larry or throw it away. But if the artifacts are wearable by all then a third choice is open, selling it on a Vendor.

These items aren't about destroying/altering/creating a market. They were added to give the individual a personal reward/advantage for partaking in the risky VvV system, earning points by taking altars in towns, and being orange to anybody else also partaking. Risk Vs. Reward.

As of now on Siege there is not much reason to go VvV, and it is largely ignored. This would change that, and by making items usable by the individual only, it will ensure that players will need to continue to do towns, rather than relying on buying one of the thousands that will be flooding the market, available on vendors.

This is not about markets, or making these items easy to get, it is about improving/creating an experience for a dead/dying/ignored shard and playerbase.

Cbstev · March 2018

I see a bunch of guys here who want the items but dont want to join VvV stop being scared. I see many poeple wearing good items and some people choose not to. (they prob have them) but they like looking at them in their houses.

Cbstev · March 2018

The people here that are against this are gonna be hiding not wearing anything good anyway so what are they bitching about? its the lazy people that dont even wear armor on siege on here crying. get real guys VvV to siege next on the voting block recall !!

OlRac · March 2018

I voted nay, as others have stated, VvV does not work on Siege like on other shards, with out specific changes it does not offer fairness to our way of life. It effects everything from sales o' suits from our fantastic crafters to fairness to unwilling participants. No go!

Sincerely,
Lord Ol'Rac Nnod
Duke O' UWSP and Earl O' Britain

Cbstev · March 2018

OlRac said:

I voted nay, as others have stated, VvV does not work on Siege like on other shards, with out specific changes it does not offer fairness to our way of life. It effects everything from sales o' suits from our fantastic crafters to fairness to unwilling participants. No go!

Sincerely,
Lord Ol'Rac Nnod
Duke O' UWSP and Earl O' Britain

Fairness? like no recalling ? Fairness like detect hidden not working proper? Fair like reds not being able to use virtues or NPC vendors even thou they pay 12.99 a month like everyone else? Dont talk to me about fair, everyone has the same ability to join vvv and they give u enough points to get the artis. then you die and you would lost them like every one else on siege loses there stuff when they die. Frankly VVv or not im killingthem and taking their suit when they die either way

Del · March 2018

Again, if I need to spend 20 hours to build a quality pvp suit then I lose it when i die I am 100% not interested in playing that server. Its could productive, and the server is focused more about pvm than pvp. just flat out.. As we all agree there is not better place in Ultima Online that a vvv system would flourish than Siege. The only thing I can see from VvV items is a increase in pvp population making it harder for the RP guilds to do their guild events. And that being said its my understanding that every sunday there is VVV fights with a no loot correct?

Agrivar · March 2018

Well, let's face it... very few things anywhere are fair. Things in general have become about the haves, and have nots. VvV on the surface looks like something of an option for play, and something I may be interested in. But I wouldn't want to enter into something that becomes just a means to show off - or mouth off - about how great "I am (insert a name here)". In my case it's been a long time since I did any serious PvP... doesn't mean I don't want to because I do miss it. But when I do, I want to play with people that are respectful of other people in word and play. I have said on the Strat boards many a time that play is about what we make it to be. Those looking for the 'easy' route for dominance exist, as well as those that have earned their 'eliteness' through hard work and effort. I think one of the real, and unsaid (maybe indirectly) concerns is that the ones seeking the quick route to infamy will use their new found ability to get the VvV arties to abuse the general public more than they are now. These people have no interest in PvP, and certainly are tired of getting PK'd. The PKing community that 'hunts' innocents needs to be aware of that. I farm for my equipment as I always have, and when I go out in the world it's with the best equipment I can piece together. To the 'uber suit PvP'r it might not be high end, maybe even considered junk - but it is optimal for me at the time and serves my purposes. If it get's 'plucked' I go farm more. I have seen a lot of 'general' statements getting thrown about by both sides... and it probably is not representative of actuality, but comments based on a persons perceptions. My impression (which I'll admit can be flawed) is that VvV is supposed to be an outlet for the ones wanting to PvP, and not to be an avenue for murders to gear up and run rampant. I think the nay votes are concerned the 'murder rate' will climb as a result. But once again it's my opinion, my outlook - flawed or otherwise based on my experiences with people in game, in GC, and posts I've read on the various forums.

Critical · March 2018

"Abuse the general public"

Do you remember VmP? We'd roll around 12 deep to the solen hives and kill newbs / dryloot them. That's why I fell in love with UO. If you don't like that playstyle conflicting with yours, then you are on the wrong shard because that's specifically exclusive to Siege.

All VvV arties are, are base pieces for suits. Like, I would use maybe 3, then imbue the rest. That scares you.

If it makes you feel any safer from being "abused" by PvPers, understand that VvV towns are going to be a primary focus for those sorts of players, so you can go ahead and calm down.

MissE · March 2018

Steve said:

MissE said:

Steve said:

I say yes, Siege should have same rules as every shard, its not being unfair to let vvv items in, you can either be vvv and use the items or choose not to. Also this will make people do towns much more on Siege because you will lose your vvv items when you die as there is no insurance. Having these items on Siege will not make the people of siege stealth and hide any less so I don't understand why they are against it except they don't want more people on the shard.

My concern is all those vvv items are available via normal game mechanics, non vvv characters have to obtain them via farming or doing bosses the hard way. Putting them into VVV on siege allows those into vvv an easy way to get items that others take ages to aquire. As Tanager rightly points out, on prodo shards VVV is in fel only and only in the city currently on the VVV callout. Non VVV chars can insure their items to avoid losses. So those hard gained items are 'safe'. Those into vvv on prodo can also insure their items. On siege if your flagged for VVV you are attackable anywhere anytime by other VVV chars in any town, this in itself is different to every other shard.

I would VVV on siege if it was ONLY in the active town, the fact it is on all the time in every town to be attacked makes it impossible for me. If VVV was ONLY active on the town callout I could choose to VVV or not, not just become a target in any town any time. I fully understand that all of us on siege are attackable any time once you leave town, that is the beauty of playing on siege, being careful and choosing your times etc. I would love to VVV but I do not want my chars attackable in every town all the time.

I haven't voted in the above as I see the argument for and against, however if Siege should have the same rules as all shards then if I am VVV and Minoc is the current call out town, I should be 'safe' in Britain etc.

So you would want all the rewards but none of the risk.

Hmm no idea how you got that out of what I said. You were the one who said "Siege should have same rules as every shard" I agree, it should have the same rules. One of which is if you are in FELUCCA on prodo shards ONLY the the current active VVV town makes you attackable. If you are in FEL Minoc which is currently the VVV town then being in VVV only makes you attackable to other players if you are in Minoc. You are not attackable in FEL Ocllo etc. That is how VVV works in Fel on prodo.

To get the 'rewards' you have to do the VVV town so all the risk is there. No possible way to get the points to get the rewards UNLESS you are in the VVV town where there is the risk.

Because Siege is a pure FEL ruleset it should not mean that VVV runs differently.

I won't VVV because of this fact. I would if it was just the town that was currently active as I could pick and choose my times to participate. Because it isn't, I don't. Not because I don't want to VVV but because I don't want to be attackable all the time IN TOWN as most of what I do is not pvp related.

Not everyone on Siege is a pvp'er and the shard would be pretty sorry if it was. I run Coco's, my girls pvm to provide the stuff to sell. Lots of which provide the pvp community with stuff they need and can't be bothered getting themselves. Every time I leave town I run the risk of being attacked and looted, that is siege. Don't give me drivel about wanting rewards with no risk, I risk every time I step out of town. I ping 280ms to this shard (live in Au with a crap internet connection) and I manage ok with pvm. I don't pvp as it is impossible, not that I am inclined anyways :P. I have been on this shard for about 17mths and never killed anyone. I didn't come here to pvp I came to run shop.

Seems to me the pvp'ers want all the rewards for cheap (ie vvv points) without having to spend Hour upon Hour doing pvm to get the high end drops. You want that crimmy etc but don't want to do the pvm to get it.

I get that, I understand you think re equipping should be easy and that it would encourage people to come to siege to pvp, it probably would, however it is a two way street, for you to get the artis via vvv then it puts non pvp'ers out of business. No pvper is gonna buy stuff that they can get for vvv points. Don't forget you can earn vvv points just by being in the vvv area without so much as killing a fly, takes a bit longer but it is doable. That way not only do pvp'ers get all the nice items for cheap vvv points they then use them to kill the non pvp'ers who then get dry looted and don't have to put in the grind time waiting for elusive drops to re-equip.

I understand both arguments. I don't think it is an easy thing to solve. I am allied with a bunch of ppl who also want vvv artis, so in the end what will be will be. Ultimately I don't really care as due to my ping I only wear one blessed item and the rest of the stuff my girls wear I can replace for 0 cost. Doesn't mean it isn't upsetting getting dry looted, it is. But I don't see the point in wearing anything 'good' as I am an easy target so there isn't any point to it.

If the artis were tradeable I would certainly have no problem with them, if they were able to be looted and stolen and worn , no problem. It would still kill the market for high end stuff but at least provide some come back for the losses and be useable by the guild/person that killed you. But it would generally kill ALL reason to do any high end content where the best drop was a vvv arti.

No vvv artis caters to the non pvp crowd, having vvv artis goes the opposite way and caters just to the pvp crowd. You can't use the argument that anyone can get the artis if they vvv, as the opposite argument works just as well that if you want the artis then get them as drops like everyone else. By you getting the vvv artis for points you destroy the need for the non pvp crowd to bother getting anything or even farm for those high end items. Swings and round-a-bouts, but you can't say that getting them would have no flow on effect to the non vvv crowd, it does.

Personally I would prefer it that you could 'insure' your armor and if killed in the field the pvp'er would get 100k insurance for each kill. (if 2 or more ppl were involved in the kill that that 100k be split according to dmg) Irrespective of if you were naked when killed or was wearing a nice suit. If you didn't have 100k in your bank to cover the insurance then you lose your stuff etc. At least then there wouldn't need to be this constant need to re-equip unless you had 0 gold in the bank. Once you had your good pvp suit you could retain it and pvp would become about aiming to kill for the 100k per kill. That ain't gonna happen tho.

Anyways, whatever comes in should be 'right' as there will be NO tweaking later on, my experience with BS is once something is in you better like it as a tweak will take years and years to come.

Garth_Grey · March 2018

That was well thought out and written Coco....

Agrivar · March 2018

Critical said:

"Abuse the general public"

Do you remember VmP? We'd roll around 12 deep to the solen hives and kill newbs / dryloot them. That's why I fell in love with UO. If you don't like that playstyle conflicting with yours, then you are on the wrong shard because that's specifically exclusive to Siege.

All VvV arties are, are base pieces for suits. Like, I would use maybe 3, then imbue the rest. That scares you.

If it makes you feel any safer from being "abused" by PvPers, understand that VvV towns are going to be a primary focus for those sorts of players, so you can go ahead and calm down.

Critical, we crossed communications. I didn't say I was scared or worried. I played many years in an ANTI PK guild back in the day on Siege. I know what to expect, so it doesn't bother me whatsoever. I was merely trying to convey what may be some of the thoughts of the ones that tend to get labeled as "scared" might be. Each 'side of the argument' has views flavored by how they play - or want to play. Siege is the only 'real world' shard in existence - that's why I am here and not on a prodo shard. I'd guess it's the same for many others as well. We all have to exist in the world... and the reality is - neither side is going to 'have it their way'. SO it has to be a blend of play or this place will become the 'ghost town' everyone says it is becoming. Once it's no longer fun for an individual - PvPr, Tamer, PvMr, crafter.. they're going to leave. No one wants that. And this world is too small to think that what I do, or say - and that goes for every player on the shard - doesn't affect at least one other person. Most likely there are ripple effects which aren't evident until sometime later. I'm just a player here, I want to make a positive impact. No matter how the vote goes I'm here. I'll play the game however it shakes out, and when it gets to the point it's more effort to log in than do something else - it'll be time to move on.

Steve · March 2018

Jesus coc wrote a book and its all nonsense.WHY do you even play siege you want insurance your afraid of dying just go play atl or better yet play a dead shard you will love it. You have so much fear for something you have no understanding of and have never tried. Just stock your vendors and leave this kinda talk to the pros

Steve · March 2018

what non pvper is gonna go out of business. NO ONE is selling crimmys ornys kasas on siege that's what people are gonna use from vvv If you don't wear armor plz don't vote or talk in here

FrejaSP · March 2018

In the past, years ago, I voted no but time have changed since then, you can now get much better suits than before Imbuing, reforging and new magic loot.

It is very hard for new PvP'ers to make it on Siege, I have seen so many PvP guilds give up

I belive we need VvV artifacts on Siege and this time my vote is YES

The reasons that made me vote no years ago, are gone now. There will not be as much imbalance between a VvV and a non VvV in PvP as there was in the past. Most imbalance will be in the PvP skills, gear do not make a great PvP'er if you do not know how to PvP.

I'm tired of crafting PvP gear for my customers, because of the pain of adding resist to the suits, I would like to have time for something else, when I login.

It's time to move forward as we can't move back to before AoS, where we had lots of PvP om Siege and the shard was active.

Freelsy · March 2018

FrejaSP said:

In the past, years ago, I voted no but time have changed since then, you can now get much better suits than before Imbuing, reforging and new magic loot.
It is very hard for new PvP'ers to make it on Siege, I have seen so many PvP guilds give up
I belive we need VvV artifacts on Siege and this time my vote is YES
The reasons that made me vote no years ago, are gone now. There will not be as much imbalance between a VvV and a non VvV in PvP as there was in the past. Most imbalance will be in the PvP skills, gear do not make a great PvP'er if you do not know how to PvP.
I'm tired of crafting PvP gear for my customers, because of the pain of adding resist to the suits, I would like to have time for something else, when I login.
It's time to move forward as we can't move back to before AoS, where we had lots of PvP om Siege and the shard was active.

Dilly Dilly

MrTibs · March 2018

Tanager said:

In Trammel, VvV is consensual only - that gear is not used on anyone BUT VvV. Since it is not possible at this time to restrict Siege VvV gear to JUST VvV participants, then I vote no to their existence on Siege. Give that gear 'Mask of Orcish Kin' property where it explodes if you attack non-VvV while wearing it, and I'll change my vote :P

VvV items are used against blues on prodo shards everyday. Siege is not a consensual PvP ruleset shard, it's called Siege Perilous for a reason. Your "points" are invalid.

MissE said:

Hmm no idea how you got that out of what I said. You were the one who said "Siege should have same rules as every shard" I agree, it should have the same rules. One of which is if you are in FELUCCA on prodo shards ONLY the the current active VVV town makes you attackable. If you are in FEL Minoc which is currently the VVV town then being in VVV only makes you attackable to other players if you are in Minoc. You are not attackable in FEL Ocllo etc. That is how VVV works in Fel on prodo.

That is not how VvV works on prodo. If you're VvV you are freely attackable anywhere in Felucca. It does not matter which town is active, if you are VvV, you are OJ anywhere in Fel. Have you ever even used the VvV feature in Ultima?

This is why we can't have nice things.

Cbstev · March 2018

Siege was made to be a pvp shard nothing more the lsoers that are hear collecting stuff to lock down on the floor shouldnt even get to vote. they dont even wear armor they dont wear anything good. they will still be naked hiding not pvping why do they even get a vote. Anyone else find it odd as soon as the No voter said something about using fake acct to vote the nos suddenly had 30 new votes in about a hour. thats about as funny as people of siege talking about uosteam then using steam macros to go thur gates. They opened all facets to pvp on siege because its a pvp shard stop being bitches go play somewhere with insurance and go make me a sammich

Frawg · March 2018

It’s insane to me the straight ignorance of people voting no on this. They don’t even know how VvV works, nor do they PVP but for some reason their opinion is valued?

Frawg · March 2018

You idiots realize VvV items are antique and decay rather quickly? Siege was supposed to be a PVP shard thus why the Felucca ruleset everywhere. Siege was never made to be a PVM shard where you farm on naked stealth tamers... just to lock items down on your castle floors. Come on.

Drakelord · March 2018

<41363127>Lil Jeffy: everyone go to the new uo forums at uo.com clcik siege vote yes for VvV items on Siege.

<41363127>Lil Jeffy: Siege people are so afriad of people playing there they are making fake accts to vote no

<23163668>Rillao: first off you can only open one account since all Game accounts are linked to your master

<23163668>Rillao: and when you use ONE game account to register ther it will LINK all your game accounts there'

<23163668>Rillao: so if you try to register on another game account it will bring you to your first regietered account

<23163668>Rillao: so there no way they can register with fake accounts there'

<23163668>Rillao: since all game accounts are linked'

<23163668>Rillao: and if you do not believe me try to register with another account there'

<23163668>Rillao: my Wife wanted to have her account there but since all our game accounts are linked

<23163668>Rillao: to my master account she found she had my name there

<23163668>Rillao: now I wonder if he read that or was he a runway missle running to another chard to blast this

<23163668>Rillao: false posting

<23163668>Rillao: *shard

<33806277>Zugzug: Hes already on another shard, for sure.

<23163668>Rillao: ya

<23163668>Rillao: ya my wife wanted to get on there to give her two cents and was rather upset to not be able to

<23163668>Rillao: register as another person

<23163668>Rillao: since all accounts are link you can only make one

OK here is one scared cat, rushes over to Sonoma while I am filling a spell book and shouts this false statement off. You cannot register here if you have already done so if all your game accounts are linked to your master account. If you do not believe me ask my wife she stilled pissed that she has not able to say her piece or report a bug/problem.

AmberWitch · March 2018

This just happened ten minutes ago on Baja.

So why should Dev's have faith that any poll would be close to being what the people of the shard really wants? Why do some people feel they have to 'win' at any cost?

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/bg/rb2b5v43jnk6.jpg

Drakelord · March 2018

Same guy, word for word LOL

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Poll and discussion : VvV arties on Siege

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