Poll and discussion : VvV arties on Siege

EM Kincaid

*lights blue touch paper, stands well back*

As I promised, I will be your spokesman in all things Siege. If you want me to be, of course.
I have already asked about the placing of an enhanced spellweaving circle, and will continue to follow up on that.

VvV artifacts have been a bone of contention for some time on Siege. 
There was a vote some time ago, and the "Nay's" won. 
Times have changed. Opinions may have changed - they may not. Let's see.

At the end of March, I promise that I will discuss the results of the poll with Mesanna.
That will either be a discussion about re-enabling the artefacts, or just a confirmation that you want things to remain the same. 

I would like to state ONE very important point right at the start of this:

To the best of my knowledge, Broadsword does not have the resources to assign a developer to a Siege-exclusive feature. So, if you want VvV arties to have different behaviour on Siege to any other shard, you are not very likely to get that. 

Ask for what everyone else has - we'll probably get it sooner or later.
Ask for a variation on what everyone else has - the odds of getting it plummet. 

So, this poll has one question. Only one. We can ask for tweaks further down the road, if there is agreement on those tweaks. But for now, lets give our house a foundation before we worry about what we're going to store in the loft.

Discuss other ideas, by all means. We may take those further in the future. 

Victim_Of_Siege

Thank you for giving us this opportunity. although I don't see it changing much from the past ones at least we can have the discussion again. 

Critical

Thank you Kincaid.

Tanager

In Trammel, VvV is consensual only - that gear is not used on anyone BUT VvV. Since it is not possible at this time to restrict Siege VvV gear to JUST VvV participants, then I vote no to their existence on Siege. Give that gear 'Mask of Orcish Kin' property where it explodes if you attack non-VvV while wearing it, and I'll change my vote :P

In the meanwhile, I think it is fair for every player to have to work to obtain their gear in the same manner as everyone else.

Steve

I say yes, Siege should have same rules as every shard, its not being unfair to let vvv items in, you can either be vvv and use the items or choose not to. Also this will make people do towns much more on Siege because you will lose your vvv items when you die as there is no insurance.  Having these items on Siege will not make the people of siege stealth and hide any less so I don't understand why they are against  it except they don't want more people on the shard.

Frawg

Bringing VvV Arit's to Siege will bring much needed PVP and competition into Towns. Also, It would entice guilds from other shards to start playing siege because it will make suits a little easier to make on the shard. Not everyone has the time to make a character specifically to farm DOOM or Mels for the most used Artis.

My vote is YES 1000 times over.

Optimus

If you want more people to login and play siege, do this. If you want to stimulate the cities, and get the shard bumpin', do this. If you want siege to continue down a path of loneliness and despair until it is a complete L, do not do this.

Real_Chargar

As Our guild has a rule prohibiting trades from virtually almost every guild on the server, unless we're significantly undercutting the typical rates via GIL auctions, I'm going to vote yes, to entice more players to come over for us to taunt when we purchase accounts to keep idocs within the guild!

Corpse

This sounds great I would love to have vvv items on siege!!!

Forsaken

Imo VvV arties should be turned on until a serious discussion takes place as to what really needs to be done to Siege Perilous.

Siege is broken. There are so many new items in the game and people are afraid to wear them outside the safety of their homes. 

Siege wasn't meant for such an item based environment...

Freelsy

Forsaken said:

Imo VvV arties should be turned on until a serious discussion takes place as to what really needs to be done to Siege Perilous.

Siege is broken. There are so many new items in the game and people are afraid to wear them outside the safety of their homes. 

Siege wasn't meant for such an item based environment...

Yes, yes, yes.

There are many underlying issues that need resolved. Implementing VvV arties is a quick fix that can breath some life into the shard. Look at it over the past month... tons of new players. We need them to stay!

Steve

Freelsy said:

Forsaken said:

Siege is broken. There are so many new items in the game and people are afraid to wear them outside the safety of their homes. 

don't be afraid to lose items from a  20 year old game and if your that scared of losing it just go play a  shard with insurance.

MissE

Steve said:

I say yes, Siege should have same rules as every shard, its not being unfair to let vvv items in, you can either be vvv and use the items or choose not to. Also this will make people do towns much more on Siege because you will lose your vvv items when you die as there is no insurance.  Having these items on Siege will not make the people of siege stealth and hide any less so I don't understand why they are against  it except they don't want more people on the shard.

My concern is all those vvv items are available via normal game mechanics, non vvv characters have to obtain them via farming or doing bosses the hard way.  Putting them into VVV on siege allows those into vvv an easy way to get items that others take ages to aquire.  As Tanager rightly points out, on prodo shards VVV is in fel only and only in the city currently on the VVV callout. Non VVV chars can insure their items to avoid losses. So those hard gained items are 'safe'.  Those into vvv on prodo can also insure their items.  On siege if your flagged for VVV you are attackable anywhere anytime by other VVV chars in any town, this in itself is different to every other shard.

I would VVV on siege if it was ONLY in the active town, the fact it is on all the time in every town to be attacked makes it impossible for me. If VVV was ONLY active on the town callout  I could choose to VVV or not, not just become a target in any town any time. I fully understand that all of us on siege are attackable any time once you leave town, that is the beauty of playing on siege, being careful and choosing your times etc.  I would love to VVV but I do not want my chars attackable in every town all the time.

I haven't voted in the above as I see the argument for and against, however if Siege should have the same rules as all shards then if I am VVV and Minoc is the current call out town, I should be 'safe' in Britain etc.

Freelsy

Deleted.

Becca

That is a fake chargar and what she is saying is to disparage Gilfane.  She has been around for about a month imitating chargar,

CharGar

Real_Chargar said:

As Our guild has a rule prohibiting trades from virtually almost every guild on the server, unless we're significantly undercutting the typical rates via GIL auctions, I'm going to vote yes, to entice more players to come over for us to taunt when we purchase accounts to keep idocs within the guild!

This is not the CharGar in Gilfane.  Just trolling as usual.  

Misty

The only reason to not want VvV items on Siege is that you're afraid of competition. This might actually bring a fairly large amount of players back.

Steve

MissE said:

Steve said:

I say yes, Siege should have same rules as every shard, its not being unfair to let vvv items in, you can either be vvv and use the items or choose not to. Also this will make people do towns much more on Siege because you will lose your vvv items when you die as there is no insurance.  Having these items on Siege will not make the people of siege stealth and hide any less so I don't understand why they are against  it except they don't want more people on the shard.

My concern is all those vvv items are available via normal game mechanics, non vvv characters have to obtain them via farming or doing bosses the hard way.  Putting them into VVV on siege allows those into vvv an easy way to get items that others take ages to aquire.  As Tanager rightly points out, on prodo shards VVV is in fel only and only in the city currently on the VVV callout. Non VVV chars can insure their items to avoid losses. So those hard gained items are 'safe'.  Those into vvv on prodo can also insure their items.  On siege if your flagged for VVV you are attackable anywhere anytime by other VVV chars in any town, this in itself is different to every other shard.

I would VVV on siege if it was ONLY in the active town, the fact it is on all the time in every town to be attacked makes it impossible for me. If VVV was ONLY active on the town callout  I could choose to VVV or not, not just become a target in any town any time. I fully understand that all of us on siege are attackable any time once you leave town, that is the beauty of playing on siege, being careful and choosing your times etc.  I would love to VVV but I do not want my chars attackable in every town all the time.

I haven't voted in the above as I see the argument for and against, however if Siege should have the same rules as all shards then if I am VVV and Minoc is the current call out town, I should be 'safe' in Britain etc.

So you would want all the rewards but none of the risk.  

Smoot

I see no reason not to allow them.

They slightly favor mages, but theres so many balancing issues on siege that i dont see the harm in adding to the mix more.

It would at least give dexters a bit of a boost allowing for a crimson cincture, considering the cost and difficulty of obtaining a real one, i wouldnt even bother using real one, but a VVV one would be manageable and easier to replace.

If anything, it might encourage a little pvp.  from my limited siege play, ive not encountered a single pvp encounter on siege (except for EM events)  Maybe ive just been too careful?  I play a swordsman and dont stealth or anything, just never see anyone.  I think it would concentrate the pvp at least a little.

The main problem is that VVV is broken on all shards right now.  You should not be able to get points while stealthed, as its destroyed all point to a VVV battle. 

Del

I could see the pvpers coming back to siege if you put VvV items back in.  now that a lot of players are returning to the game siege had a large pvp population at one time. and if those fellas come back with the current system, they will either go play ATL or just not pvp at all. And in order to get VvV items you need to capture the town I see a lot more incentive on Siege than any other server to claim towns to stack points due to the no insurance policy. Once established in the game people can farm for items but currently I feel the vvv items are a great foundation that allows anyone with a pvp ready template to jump into battle without mooching off their guild. 

MrTibs

Honestly, this shouldn't even be a debate. VvV items should be on Siege. They can't be blessed, it will stimulate the playerbase and give people a reason to go in and fight, and will actually make VvV worth a damn, because let's face it, as of now it has pretty much no use. There were faction items, why aren't there VvV items?

Drakelord

You know that Siege voted No at Stratics, and here its a bunch of Bandits trying to roll that vote over by logging extra accounts, posing as players from that shards to get VvV items on Siege, I hope the staff of Broadsword see what this really is, an attempt to sneak in under the wire and get their way here.  For your information, I voted "NO".

SirAJ

I am for no changes until we see the impact (if any) from endless journey.

Max_Blackoak

If I vote and later on change my mind can I change my vote? ... I'm asking for a friend...

Critical

@Drakelord a lot of people are banned from stratics, plus three years ago it was in favor when there was a poll.  These results don't really surprise me.

Drakelord

@Critical, another concern I have is any VvV item on Prodo shard are for that char only and they Blessed or insured.  If this comes to Siege I can only hope that the "Only can be worn by that character is changed to ANYONE may wear it", and they are NOT blessed in any way.  I would ask that even the one Siege blessing is BLOCKED on all VvV items

Drakelord

Here a good example of that from an IDOC I got

Critical

Yeah if you read what Kincaid said, tweaks can come later.  I agree the owned-by tag should be removed but let's get them in first as Kincaid said and tweak accordingly

Drakelord

Critical said:

Yeah if you read what Kincaid said, tweaks can come later.  I agree the owned-by tag should be removed but let's get them in first as Kincaid said and tweak accordingly

No, let tweak it now before they come to Siege,  it be like this if they don't, one morning you wake up VvV items now on Siege, Siege bless your favorite piece, it has your name on it, cannot lose it if you die.  Those none VvV players with no VvV items are now roadkills because of the this.  Now everyone is crying, those that do not have it and rather not VvV to get it and those that do VvV daily to earn more items and do not wish to give up an item that is Named for them and Siege Blessed.  And the Dev's be like we will look into this maybe next Pub before we can fix this.

MrTibs

I actually think they should stay exactly the same, this way there won't be some out of control flood of antique artifacts that anybody in VvV can use, which would essentially make their normal counterparts obsolete for a large portion of the playerbase. Having them usable only by a single person keeps up the need to do towns, and won't bloat the artifact market. Making a persons VvV artifacts wearable by anybody is actually the worst thing that could happen.

Garth_Grey

Steve said:

Freelsy said:

Forsaken said:

Siege is broken. There are so many new items in the game and people are afraid to wear them outside the safety of their homes. 

don't be afraid to lose items from a  20 year old game and if your that scared of losing it just go play a  shard with insurance.

Steve, tone down the rhetoric, you're not helping the discussion with this kind of comment. Keep it civil and grown up and it might, just might, get implemented.