Poll and discussion : VvV arties on Siege

BoBo

Issue with Swords post is, it doesn't take into account the diversity of gear.  And the fact that this game pvp wise is an item based game.  So say someone like the bo is always going to have a leg up on the competition because the bo has more resources to buy the gear needed.  Pvp is all about items, and it would be more fair to allow all to have access.  That is what the VvV system allows. 

Now for those naysayers that are afraid of getting pked, guess what you gonna get pked no matter what gear the pk is wearin if they are any good.  Most pvpers only hunt people to supply them with more gear.  If the gear was more accessible they wouldn't waste there time. 

So in the spirit of things!  ahhaha that right there is a joke too.  how dare you say that, when stealth in its current form is on the shard, no passive reveal.  what a joke.   Siege was made long ago when gear was all bout the same and it was easily obtainable.  Nowadays good pvpers take time to build a suit, hours and to lose it to a disconnect in 5 minutes is crippling to some. 

Critical

gimme dem arties

Garth_Grey

It won't happen. There are too many people without a vested interest in the shard, voicing their drummed up outrage over the fallout that wouldn't happen .

Drakelord

@FrejaSP ;To Drakelord
Comrades, who are my comrades? 

Why I would assume every player on SP is your Comrade, now as to if they friendly that another point, if they salute with empty hands I call that Comrade friend, brother or sister.  Those that attack my pet or me with no attempt to parlay I call Bandit.  

ban·dit

ˈbandit/

noun

1. a robber or outlaw belonging to a gang and typically operating in an isolated or lawless area.

   "the bandit produced a weapon and demanded money"

   synonyms:

   robber, thief, outlaw, gunman, crook, mugger, gangster, raider, freebooter, hijacker, looter, marauder, bandito;  dateddesperado;  literarybrigand;  historicalrustler, highwayman, reaver

FrejaSP

In my world the term comrade mean friend, mate or ally and can very well be a robber, thief, outlaw, bandit etc at the same time, depending of who you are :-)

Razzputon

Comrade

MrTibs

It's obvious that enough people want VvV brought in that the EM will have to bring this back to Mesanna for a discussion, at which they have to review the pros and cons, and come to their own conclusion.

OlRac

It's obvious that this is a vote and the nays are still in the lead, so there won't be a discussion on it coming to siege. Gotta read the OP. @MrTibs the discussion happens if the yays win the vote

BoBo

Olrac you struggling with reading?  you should go back and read the OP.  the OP clearly states that they will discuss the findings of the pole at the end of march either bout people wanting them or not.  Either way the discussion will happen.  And with this many people wanting them.  They should be reinstated. 

The Bo would love to see this magical pole that took place long ago where the Nays one.  

OlRac

Ya gotta read the paragraph, not one sentence. 

"At the end of March, I promise that I will discuss the results of the poll with Mesanna. 
That will either be a discussion about re-enabling the artefacts, or just a confirmation that you want things to remain the same. "

Or just a confirmation that you want things to remain the same!  

Hence the whole point of doing a vote. In the end only the yays or nays are going to lead to what conversation is had. Last I checked us naysayers are still in the lead, hence no change. 

Critical

the king has spoken

Freelsy

Provide the polling from the first vote a few years ago and lets see how that differs from this vote. Then we can see how the shard views bringing back artifacts. One guild doesn't get to dictate the outcome.

Freelsy

So I did some research on stratics and found a few polls and a few posts with insightful debate regarding the issues.

Each of these polls had the community split 50/50. How in the world did we come to a "Siege has decided to remove artifacts" when 50% of the population still wanted artifacts?

https://community.stratics.com/threads/ok-ok-a-yes-or-no-poll-for-vvv-artifacts-on-siege.374396/#post-2734820

https://community.stratics.com/threads/dev-meet-an-greet.374449/#post-2735163

https://community.stratics.com/threads/jul-15-2016-i-demand-faction-items-are-put-back-on-siege-uo-siege-perilous.374075/

https://community.stratics.com/threads/vvv-artifact-instatement-poll.341038/

Optimus

OlRac said:

Ya gotta read the paragraph, not one sentence. 

"At the end of March, I promise that I will discuss the results of the poll with Mesanna. 
That will either be a discussion about re-enabling the artefacts, or just a confirmation that you want things to remain the same. "

Or just a confirmation that you want things to remain the same!  

Hence the whole point of doing a vote. In the end only the yays or nays are going to lead to what conversation is had. Last I checked us naysayers are still in the lead, hence no change. 

You sound scared that they're going to discuss it. Maybe because it makes sense?

The reason a large portion of the Siege players are voting "No" is because they will have no way to control VvV, because they do not actively PvP, or are just really bad at it. They will be utterly helpless to stop players from attaining and benefiting from these items, and utterly helpless to attain and benefit from them themselves.

These VvV items will be very hard to get, as I imagine you will receive something like 1/5th of what you get on prodo per altar/kill/sigil etc, and there will be more players fighting for them than anything else on the shard. Instead of going and spending hours farming, you can go and spend hours PvPing for some greatly desired [and in demand] item based rewards.

This would definitely renew interest in the shard, and make it actually playable for relatively new players, as opposed to straight up impossible.

Ultima has become more and more item based, Siege included, year by year, and to not allow Siege to grow to adapt to these changes is going to leave it in the dust.

Creeger

Freelsy said:

So I did some research on stratics and found a few polls and a few posts with insightful debate regarding the issues.

Each of these polls had the community split 50/50. How in the world did we come to a "Siege has decided to remove artifacts" when 50% of the population still wanted artifacts?

Your first link is to a poll similar to the one we have in this thread. The “nays” out numbered the “ayes”.

Your second and third links go to what appear to be spinoff threads from the 1st linked pole, as they have about the same dates on them. But they are not poles themselves.

Your 4th link is to a pole that’s not very similar to the pole in this thread. It asked for either no artifacts, or none blessable artifacts that can and be worn by anyone. In that pole the majority of people voted for having the artifacts, but only if their rules were modified to allow anyone to wear them. 

I have not seen any poles where the majority of people want the VvV artifacts, as is, added to Siege. As a few people here keep pretending has happened...

OlRac

+1 Creeger!
Past poll shows yet again that MORE than half the voters didn't wish these arties introduced... y'all can make all the arguments ya wish but the facts are the facts and the numbers are right there. This is a majority vote and the majority will declare whether or not the arties come to siege. It doesn't matter one bit how close the margins get. If even one vote is the deciding factor that we get these arties, I will not complain at all, are you big enough to show the same level of respect to the other half o' the shard? 

Sincerely, 
Lord Ol'Rac Nnod 
Duke o' UWSP and Earl o' Britain

Steve

So that guy was telling people to go vote if they want VVV on siege? NO where near as bad as the No making fake acct to vote no.

Steve

Have you ever seen so many cry baby losers on one forum. Look at these nerds I cant even read any more of these stupid post.  You lsoers are gonna die no matter how this vote goes. It seems enough people are interested and want them,they should put them in.  Not leave them out because some scared siege people made a bunch of fake accts and voted no

Garth_Grey

You have a lot of truth to your posts, if you could just stop with the insults. You're doing so much more harm than good, I don't understand why your friends aren't telling you that in vent/discord.

Garth_Grey

The number of votes in this poll is an absolute joke.

Critical

Steve is a loose cannon he cannot be controlled!

Grim

I only play on Siege rarely, and I don't PvP at all.... but I voted yes.

Siege is stagnant, and anything that *might* give it more life is worth a shot.

Now if only we could figure out something to do with all this legendary loot sitting in people's houses...

Razzputon

Garth_Grey said:

The number of votes in this poll is an absolute joke.

Agreed. I'm done with all of it. If we get arties then I'll roll with it. If not, then I'll roll with that also. At this point any valid argument has been said from both sides.

Garth_Grey

It won't happen but I would love for a Dev or even a moderator to chime in on the number of unique IPs vs account names that voted on this. I have 2 accounts, but I only created one UO Forums account, and I've only voted one time. Can everyone else in this thread say the same, and mean it ? I doubt it.

FrejaSP

If your account are on same master account, you can only make one forum account but both sides can ask friends on other shards to come here and vote and I'm sure both sides did that.

If it should be fair, only account who have a 30 days old char on Siege, should be able to vote on Siege forum.

Garth_Grey

Wrong, if that were the case it would reject anything that's not listed as a master account. I'm fairly confident that alts are able to make accounts here, and that's being done in this poll.

Tjalle

According to Captn Norrington in post #67 your account here seems to be tied to your Mythic Master account:

https://stratics.com/threads/uo-com-publish-99-comes-to-tc1-uo-com-forums.397088/page-2

Tanager

Try to log in with your other account, Garth. It will let you, but you will notice forum name and all user history is the same. It's set up by master accounts. Each master account gets one forum user name and one vote in a poll, regardless of how many paid accounts they might have.

Freelsy

I have Five accounts. I can log into the forums with each account, but each unique account name takes me to my Freelsy forum user. Only able to vote one time.

Freelsy

Creeger said:

Freelsy said:

So I did some research on stratics and found a few polls and a few posts with insightful debate regarding the issues.

Each of these polls had the community split 50/50. How in the world did we come to a "Siege has decided to remove artifacts" when 50% of the population still wanted artifacts?

Your first link is to a poll similar to the one we have in this thread. The “nays” out numbered the “ayes”.

Your second and third links go to what appear to be spinoff threads from the 1st linked pole, as they have about the same dates on them. But they are not poles themselves.

Your 4th link is to a pole that’s not very similar to the pole in this thread. It asked for either no artifacts, or none blessable artifacts that can and be worn by anyone. In that pole the majority of people voted for having the artifacts, but only if their rules were modified to allow anyone to wear them. 

I have not seen any poles where the majority of people want the VvV artifacts, as is, added to Siege. As a few people here keep pretending has happened...

OlRac said:

+1 Creeger!
Past poll shows yet again that MORE than half the voters didn't wish these arties introduced... y'all can make all the arguments ya wish but the facts are the facts and the numbers are right there. This is a majority vote and the majority will declare whether or not the arties come to siege. It doesn't matter one bit how close the margins get. If even one vote is the deciding factor that we get these arties, I will not complain at all, are you big enough to show the same level of respect to the other half o' the shard? 

Sincerely, 
Lord Ol'Rac Nnod 
Duke o' UWSP and Earl o' Britain

The point of highlighting those older threads was not to say " we win, you lose". It was to highlight the fact that there has never been a single decisive point in Siege Perilous' history that the negative replies have significantly outweighed the positive replies or vice versa. The community is damn near split 50/50. If half of your player base wants a particular item...you can't just take them away.

Additionally, from my reading, it looks like the decision to remove VvV items was ultimately based on a M&G with Kronix and Mesanna, that a dozen or so players that attended voted on. I HIGHLY doubt there was a strong mix of debate at that M&G, or that a "majority" of the shard was in favor of the decision.