sdi mage vs sampire damage balance

13

Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    edited December 2021
    There are no diminishing returns on SDI.  Its a direct calculation.

    180 is higher than many players have.  Congrats!

    Riner said:
    Talking about SDI I am curious I have 180 SDI right now, what is the high for a mage?

  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 355
    edited December 2021
    Arnold7 said:
    By the way, a necro mage in wraith form using the death ray against para balron fighting a pet or other player can do an outstanding amount of damage.  Well worth having in a party.

    That would be my Death Ray Tamer/Mage © with his 120 Disco+CB Triton. Btw, he doesn't actually have Necro/SS, he's just Human (20 JoAT) and uses a scroll to get into Wraith Form for the 8% Mana Drain, which lets him sustain Death Ray indefinitely against most foes when dealing hundreds of damage per tick.
    Between the 120 Disco lowering all Resists by -14 (-28 against foes with less than 160 Barding Difficulty), Death Ray further lowering Energy Resist by -10, and then Conductive Blast halving the remaining Energy Resist, any foe is made extremely vulnerable to Energy Damage from anyone.

    Alazi said:
    The strongest combo I've seen for raw damage is Wrestle mastery / RC fire beetle + SDI Mage.
    A RC+AP Fire Beetle is actually better. Armor Pierce applies a +10% Damage Taken debuff for 3 secs to the victim, which even boosts WoD damage. I'll oftentimes pair my Disco/Tamer and his RC+AP Fire Beetle with my Death Ray Tamer/Mage © and his 120 Disco+CB Triton for massive debuffage and damage. Those two with their pets together cause bosses to melt like butter, especially in a big group.


    Btw, Slayer Spellbooks apply to Mysticism's "Nether Cyclone" AoE spell, and it doesn't split damage between targets, it deals full damage to all. It just deals Chaos damage though, so you have no idea what Resist it's going to hit.

  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 175
    Riner said:
    Talking about SDI I am curious I have 180 SDI right now, what is the high for a mage?
    It's 250 after that you don't get any higher even if you have more on the char.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    edited December 2021
    Chrille said:
    Riner said:
    Talking about SDI I am curious I have 180 SDI right now, what is the high for a mage?
    It's 250 after that you don't get any higher even if you have more on the char.
    Gear alone should be 185, anyone got higher? pls share gear list...

    Adding all other booster without town buff, fish? and inscription, i only managed to get 243....


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • ChrilleChrille Posts: 175
    Add grapes of wrath for your last points to reach 250+
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,089
    Pawain said:
    popps said:
    Since we are talking about Spellcasters vs. Warriors, I would like to know, why on earth, while Warriors CAN have their Refinements to adjust their non-medable armor, Spellcasters, instead, cannot equally have "their " Refinements and thus be able to adjust "their " medable armor....

    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/crafting/armor-refinement/

    Armor Refinement allows players to apply Refinements to non-medable armor. 

    Perhaps, a good start could be adding to Ultima Online "also" Refinements for medable armor which then Spellcasters could adjust and use ?

    Because a mage does not need DCI. If refinements for medable reduced LMC then it would be fair.
    Well, considering that, to my understanding, Defense Chance Increase enhances a character's ability to defend him/herself from melee or ranged attacks, I would say that also Spellcasters are affected by low DCI.....

    Even if a spellcasting character is very good at moving around, when casting a spell they still stop still and, thus, increase their chances to be hit by a melee attack and, of course, even if they are great "runners around", they can still get hit by ranged Archery Weapons or Throwing Weapons not to mention Ninjitsu Shurikens and Fukiyas....

    Bottom line is, to my viewing, also Spellcasters can take advantage (and thus be penalized by low DCI) by Defense Chance Increase.

    Hence, I do not understand why Refinements cannot be also made available for medable armor that Spellcasters use.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    Why does your mage have dci? 

    A mage is not a melee toon they had summons now pets to keep things off them. Also can invis.

    Put 45 DCI on your mage and look at your parry chance on your shield after fighting.

    May as well give mages +5 extra resists for free instead. Same thing.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    despite @popps trying to derail us lets stay focused on the current point of my post which is slayer talisman for mages there is zero reason we should not get the extra damage @Kyronix is there a reason slayer  talisman don't work for casting? 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    Cause they gave us books at events.

    To answer both you and popps. The devs understand the game mechanics.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    Pawain said:
    Cause they gave us books at events.

    To answer both you and popps. The devs understand the game mechanics.
    Yes we have slayer books warriors have slayer weapons and talisman there is no reason a talisman shouldn't work for spells 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 



  • Btw, Slayer Spellbooks apply to Mysticism's "Nether Cyclone" AoE spell, and it doesn't split damage between targets, it deals full damage to all. It just deals Chaos damage though, so you have no idea what Resist it's going to hit.


    Great, the UO team should allow meteor swarm, chain lightning, etc, to get the same "it doesn't split damage between targets".   The damage shouldn't be divided between targets, just like "Nether Cyclone".

    Thank you!

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190



    Btw, Slayer Spellbooks apply to Mysticism's "Nether Cyclone" AoE spell, and it doesn't split damage between targets, it deals full damage to all. It just deals Chaos damage though, so you have no idea what Resist it's going to hit.


    Great, the UO team should allow meteor swarm, chain lightning, etc, to get the same "it doesn't split damage between targets".   The damage shouldn't be divided between targets, just like "Nether Cyclone".

    Thank you!

    Exactly! Or have those mean monsters stay away so i can sit in back and be a good caster
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • On the intent to try and boost SDI for mages, there are two other approaches beyond the "talisman" debate:

    1. Introduce a new set of more targeted lesser slayer books.  Balron is an example.
    2. Introduce new artifacts with SDI.  The unused skirt and shirt slots would be interesting.  A new SDI belt would be interesting too.

  • KazKaz Posts: 77
    If you had a slayer talisman that worked for mages the same way they work for melee, i would think the devs would likely have to cap SDI to balance it.
    the overrun on damage would be significant.  




  • MerusMerus Posts: 517
    Pawain said:
    Why does your mage have dci? 

    A mage is not a melee toon they had summons now pets to keep things off them. Also can invis.

    Put 45 DCI on your mage and look at your parry chance on your shield after fighting.

    May as well give mages +5 extra resists for free instead. Same thing.
    The (mostly) obvious reason is PvP where most mages do have combat skill like wrestling.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    Please keep in mind i am talking pure (ish) casters not tamers with magery the mystic/weaver/mage the necro/weaver/mage and yes i have a wrestling parry mage  and I don't pvp 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 355
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    Why does your mage have dci? 

    A mage is not a melee toon they had summons now pets to keep things off them. Also can invis.

    Put 45 DCI on your mage and look at your parry chance on your shield after fighting.

    May as well give mages +5 extra resists for free instead. Same thing.

    My Death Ray Tamer/Mage © has 45% DCI. He has 120 Magery and uses a -0 Mage Wep (Balakai's Shaman Staff) whenever something swaps to me, so is very hard to land hits on. Saved my ass a number of times when a Paragon Balron or Blackthorn Captain swapped from my Triton to me, let me survive long enough to get an invis off. Just to be clear though, that 45% DCI would be useless without the -0 Mage Wep as well. I usually swap to a Slayer Spellbook when mobs are firmly on my Triton.
    For Blackthorn Captains, since SDI doesn't affect Death Ray damage, i'll just stick with my Balakai's Shaman Staff while channeling Death Ray, unless it's a Sampire Captain, then i'll use an Undead Slayer Spellbook. Seen 900+ damage Death Ray ticks on some of them then. Imagine how crazy that'd be if Slayer Talismans also applied to it, double stacking Undead Slayer Spellbook+Undead Slayer Cameo for 1,350+ damage ticks then.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    Why does your mage have dci? 

    A mage is not a melee toon they had summons now pets to keep things off them. Also can invis.

    Put 45 DCI on your mage and look at your parry chance on your shield after fighting.

    May as well give mages +5 extra resists for free instead. Same thing.

    My Death Ray Tamer/Mage © has 45% DCI. He has 120 Magery and uses a -0 Mage Wep (Balakai's Shaman Staff) whenever something swaps to me, so is very hard to land hits on. Saved my ass a number of times when a Paragon Balron or Blackthorn Captain swapped from my Triton to me, let me survive long enough to get an invis off. Just to be clear though, that 45% DCI would be useless without the -0 Mage Wep as well. I usually swap to a Slayer Spellbook when mobs are firmly on my Triton.
    For Blackthorn Captains, since SDI doesn't affect Death Ray damage, i'll just stick with my Balakai's Shaman Staff while channeling Death Ray, unless it's a Sampire Captain, then i'll use an Undead Slayer Spellbook. Seen 900+ damage Death Ray ticks on some of them then. Imagine how crazy that'd be if Slayer Talismans also applied to it, double stacking Undead Slayer Spellbook+Undead Slayer Cameo for 1,350+ damage ticks then.
    So you are complaining that you need + 5 resists?

    Because that is what this derailed part of this thread is about.

    I was talking to Popps, we know he does not have your type mage.  We know he does not PvP.

    So keep the events that happen when you spin 3 times, eat an Apple, Bandage yourself and Bow,  out of this derailed part of the thread.

    Either justify why we need more resists on a mage at the cost of DCI or be smart and know why we cant have that.  Stay on topic of this derail.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    Ok no support for the first 2 suggestions how about my three follow up 

    This brings up three more adjustments 
    1. No true cold spells for mages nothing at all for an area spell and mind blast is ridiculous slow. Add AOE and a decent direct damage cold spell 
    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.
    3 summons,  mage summons are just so 1998 weak and need a buff to be able to compete in today world 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
    Necromancer yes mage no 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    On the intent to try and boost SDI for mages, there are two other approaches beyond the "talisman" debate:

    1. Introduce a new set of more targeted lesser slayer books.  Balron is an example.
    2. Introduce new artifacts with SDI.  The unused skirt and shirt slots would be interesting.  A new SDI belt would be interesting too.

    The dragon slayer is a lesser slayer that does double slayer damage vs ancient wrym, greater dragon, dragon and drakes.... but demon slayer is a super slayer, single slayer for all demons... I think all they need to do is make demon slayer a lesser slayer.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougle said:
    McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
    Necromancer yes mage no 
    It requires a whopping 20 points to maintain.  A worthwhile tradeoff.
    Seth said:
    On the intent to try and boost SDI for mages, there are two other approaches beyond the "talisman" debate:

    1. Introduce a new set of more targeted lesser slayer books.  Balron is an example.
    2. Introduce new artifacts with SDI.  The unused skirt and shirt slots would be interesting.  A new SDI belt would be interesting too.

    The dragon slayer is a lesser slayer that does double slayer damage vs ancient wrym, greater dragon, dragon and drakes.... but demon slayer is a super slayer, single slayer for all demons... I think all they need to do is make demon slayer a lesser slayer.
    The game is one of collectibles, make more lesser slayers for mobs throughout the game -- balron was but one example.  Heck, a virtuebane lesser slayer would be nice!
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    McDougle said:
    McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
    Necromancer yes mage no 
    It requires a whopping 20 points to maintain.  A worthwhile tradeoff.
    Seth said:
    On the intent to try and boost SDI for mages, there are two other approaches beyond the "talisman" debate:

    1. Introduce a new set of more targeted lesser slayer books.  Balron is an example.
    2. Introduce new artifacts with SDI.  The unused skirt and shirt slots would be interesting.  A new SDI belt would be interesting too.

    The dragon slayer is a lesser slayer that does double slayer damage vs ancient wrym, greater dragon, dragon and drakes.... but demon slayer is a super slayer, single slayer for all demons... I think all they need to do is make demon slayer a lesser slayer.
    The game is one of collectibles, make more lesser slayers for mobs throughout the game -- balron was but one example.  Heck, a virtuebane lesser slayer would be nice!
    Yes i was born of the age of shadows you merely... 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,401
    edited December 2021
    McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
    The mage really has alot of other advantages, before we make the mage become better than a tank warrior for tanking.

    I have already said, the warrior needs to run there, wait for spawns to surround and touch him, for the whirlwind bonus to work with bushido.

    It's a different mechanism.

    If anyone want this mechanism, make a warrior.

    Don't ask a mage to become as good as a warrior, or a warrior to become as good as a tamer and mage.

    So now mages can do this same whirlwind while protected with same 70 resist suit and he Can have 45 dci. What then separates the warrior from the mage?


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    Seth said:
    McDougle said:

    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.

    Not true.  Somebody else alludes to the solution in this thread.

    On the other hand, a mage should also be able to leech life with spells while in vamp form.  That was brought up in a separate thread.
    The mage really has alot of other advantages, before we make the mage become better than a tank warrior for tanking.

    I have already said, the warrior needs to run there, wait for spawns to surround and touch him, for the whirlwind bonus to work with bushido.

    It's a different mechanism.

    If anyone want this mechanism, make a warrior.

    Don't ask a mage to become as good as a warrior, or a warrior to become as good as a tamer and mage.

    So now mages can do this same whirlwind while protected with same 70 resist suit and he Can have 45 dci. What then separates the warrior from the mage?


    We have accepted the rejection of improved AOE and are now rejecting other ideas 
    Slayer talisman for mages

    1. No true cold spells for mages nothing at all for an area spell and mind blast is ridiculous slow. Add AOE and a decent direct damage cold spell 
    2. No way for a mage to leech mana perhaps an adjustment to the mastery scaling off real skill level.
    3 summons,  mage summons are just so 1998 weak and need a buff to be able to compete in today world 
    Please select and reject a new idea 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    edited December 2021
    3.  That's why we replaced Summons with much more powerful pets.

    1.  They are not going to add new spells.  

    2. There are only 3 spells I can not chain cast forever with MR 30 while running consume.

    My Archer runs out of mana way before my mage does.

    You are sounding like you never play a mage.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,190
    Pawain said:
    3.  That's why we replaced Summons with much more powerful pets.

    1.  They are not going to add new spells.  

    2. There are only 3 spells I can not chain cast forever with MR 30 while running consume.

    My Archer runs out of mana way before my mage does.

    You are sounding like you never play a mage.
    I assume you have given all your expert opinion by this point and will no longer contribute?
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,322
    Written in stone, refer back 10 years will still be the same.  The devs know the game mechanics.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 380
    edited December 2021
    @McDougle, my advice is to extract the key pieces of your customer service requests from this thread and place them into the "Customer Service" "Bugs" section.  There are certainly parts of what have been written here that I'd support.

    My understanding is the developers have access to the UO source code, and software is very fungible and can be changed without too much fanfare.  Nothing should really be static forever, in particular when there are paying customers requesting changes or pointing out problems.  As a corollary, I had some issues with online purchases and I heard back with resolution within days of raising issues.  This really shouldn't be any different.  It doesn't make sense for non-broadsword staff to make statements as to whether something is set in stone/etc.

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