sdi mage vs sampire damage balance

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  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,200
    edited December 2021
    @ McDougle, my advice is to extract the key pieces of your customer service requests from this thread and place them into the "Customer Service" "Bugs" section.  There are certainly parts of what have been written here that I'd support.

    My understanding is the developers have access to the UO source code, and software is very fungible and can be changed without too much fanfare.  Nothing should really be static forever, in particular when there are paying customers requesting changes or pointing out problems.  As a corollary, I had some issues with online purchases and I heard back with resolution within days of raising issues.  This really shouldn't be any different.  It doesn't make sense for non-broadsword staff to make statements as to whether something is set in stone/etc.

    Adding a new spell to magery is easy?  They have to add the scroll drops, the crafting of it.
    What circle would the new spell fit in?   Maybe they could change Mindblast in some way, but what other magery spell has been changed recently?

    You think this is the first time someone noticed talismans do not work for spells?  There is a reason for that.

    They could revamp summons but it is doubtful they will do that because of NL.  With us only having old tag weapons and armor I doubt they would make summons stronger in NL when we will be weaker.

    Summons in NL should appear stronger, just like they seemed in 1997 to 2000s.


  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    @Pawain i think everyone understands your stance on this why continue posting negativity let people Express other opinions...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 379
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    @ McDougle, my advice is to extract the key pieces of your customer service requests from this thread and place them into the "Customer Service" "Bugs" section.  There are certainly parts of what have been written here that I'd support.

    My understanding is the developers have access to the UO source code, and software is very fungible and can be changed without too much fanfare.  Nothing should really be static forever, in particular when there are paying customers requesting changes or pointing out problems.  As a corollary, I had some issues with online purchases and I heard back with resolution within days of raising issues.  This really shouldn't be any different.  It doesn't make sense for non-broadsword staff to make statements as to whether something is set in stone/etc.

    Adding a new spell to magery is easy?  They have to add the scroll drops, the crafting of it.
    What circle would the new spell fit in?   Maybe they could change Mindblast in some way, but what other magery spell has been changed recently?

    You think this is the first time someone noticed talismans do not work for spells?  There is a reason for that.

    They could revamp summons but it is doubtful they will do that because of NL.  With us only having old tag weapons and armor I doubt they would make summons stronger in NL when we will be weaker.

    Summons in NL should appear stronger, just like they seemed in 1997 to 2000s.


    I made no claims as to how easy something might be.  I also didn't suggest adding new spells.  Usually there is some degree of complexity that changes based on the approach the developer chooses.  The UO developers are best to chime in on this.  I'd wager:
    1. Changing the AOE magery spells like chain light, meteor swarm to not split the damage like various other spells is a straightforward change.
    2. Adding new lesser slayer books/items is of more complexity than #1.  (Balron, virtuebane, etc).
    3. Adding new spells is of more complexity than #2.
    4. Adding a way to select a preferred damage type modifier to spells, is of unknown complexity, though the bard discord mastery allows this.  Quivers also allow this.
    5. Changing talismans for mages is probably more error prone, I remember seeing a video on youtube showing weird odd interactions with WOD and talismans.  One interesting questions is whether it's intentional that slayers double up for melee.
    I'm only guessing here.  The point stands there are plenty of suggestions, apparent open bugs, etc.  I don't know if these things are falling on deaf ears.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,200
    edited December 2021
    1. Sure I would like to be more powerful.  Allowing the AoE magery spells to do max damage to all targets sounds great.  IMO they are already powerful enough.  They kill level 1 spawn in 1 hit.
    But sure lemme kill 10 dragons with 1 chain lightning.  I am for it.

    2. I use slayer books for the dynamic events.  I like having to know what you need to use. 
    Slayer books already come in Super and individual varieties.  If they want to add more individuals, fine by me. IMO these event Paragons should be more difficult than normal ones.  A demon slayer works fine on normal Para Balrons.  I doubt the OP has ever used one on a normal para balron.

    3 and 4  spells have been the same for years, dont fix what aint broke.  We figured out how to kill all the skeletons in Khaldun. The OP probably has never done Khaldun to see what his spells to do mobs that are immune to all damage types but 1.  I have over 200 costumes from Khaldun, Mages are able to kill things. I only used my mage there.

    5. Repeat 2.  I feel our current slayer books allow us to kill everything that is not a dynamic spawn super mob.  The roof is fine as is. 2 players do it every day over and over.  dont fix what aint broken.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    Warriors weapons are very specific did everyone make a different demon slayer for of ice vs for of hythloth? With different elemental damage? Guess what mages (let's qualify this to someone who uses MAGERY for 90% of their damage output) had same spells as always. I carry at least a dozen slayer books trying to optimize. Nothing i have asked for is OP  or hurts another build....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,328
    Secondly, I
    McDougle said:
    Warriors weapons are very specific did everyone make a different demon slayer for of ice vs for of hythloth? With different elemental damage? Guess what mages (let's qualify this to someone who uses MAGERY for 90% of their damage output) had same spells as always. I carry at least a dozen slayer books trying to optimize. Nothing i have asked for is OP  or hurts another build....
    So sad, our warriors need to be very specific in what they bring for the event or quest, it's because the weapons are much heavier and they take up space. If it is anti-life leech, we need to swap out necro! If I cannot reach the target (like Eodon ant queen), I need to swap archery. For every event, we need to know what slayer to bring, mages don't.

    Yes, that is so fortunate for my 185 SDI mage who has a Spellbook Strap and I also carry around ALL the slayers because of the strap, thanks to the Dev team!


    ---

    In fact, we pick characters and gears for different events because it is an MMORPG, and we do not want to be left out. We have different types of mages, warriors, archers, throwers, tamers, tamer mages, tamer bard, bard warrior, so diversified....

    Dev team - just throw us a challenge and our creative player base will come up with a skill combo to deal with the quest.

    Except some players keep telling the Dev team - please I only want to use a mage, or tamer, why is the event not mage or tamer friendly? Why can the warrior do this and that, why not my mage?

    Seriously?




    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    Now if only the spellbook strap worked...
    Improvements to mage doesn't hurt anyone...

    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,328
    edited December 2021
    It is working for me, at least I can carry all of them around without any problems.

    I would agree with the other suggestion about the talisman slayer should apply to mages. I don't know why it's not but it could be a legacy issue (past down from previous dev). But the concern or problem may or may not exist anymore. Perhaps it is time for them to review this - if they have the time. >:)

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    When I change books at times they don't go back in strap i posted this a couple times in bugs forum 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,328
    McDougle said:
    When I change books at times they don't go back in strap i posted this a couple times in bugs forum 

    I reported that bug during TC phase and it was resolved.I just tested it and it is still working.

    I saw your post and that could be due to a bugged spellbook strap, or the particular spellbook. I tested the invasion spellbooks in the above screen capture and they work. I swap those on my hand, in the bag and strap, and they go back to where they come from.

    If yours is not working as intended, I would suggest to page a GM and get this fixed. Recently, the GM fixed and replaced my bugged satchel.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    It's on two separate accounts. i was pondering if it might be my EC macro set up 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,328
    McDougle said:
    It's on two separate accounts. i was pondering if it might be my EC macro set up 
    I just swapped some spellbooks around and now some of them are not returning to the strap! There is definitely a bug here but but but my argument still stands, all the spellbooks are weighing 0 stones and I can still carry all of them on my super sdi mage... :D

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    Seth said:
    McDougle said:
    It's on two separate accounts. i was pondering if it might be my EC macro set up 
    I just swapped some spellbooks around and now some of them are not returning to the strap! There is definitely a bug here but but but my argument still stands, all the spellbooks are weighing 0 stones and I can still carry all of them on my super sdi mage... :D

    Lol indeed!
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 317
    a mage is more a utility character, not a pure dps character.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,046
    Smoot said:
    a mage is more a utility character, not a pure dps character.
    I think the developers understand as we've gotten hooks shield and yukios earrings both great boost what's needed is fine tuning not a major revamp..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    I do agree SDI PvM mages need a boost in pvm.
    They are fine with solo mobs, mostly, they really suffer in large spawn, mainly because of the disruptions, it makes them pretty much unplayable.

    The solutions really is - find a way to completely minimise disruptions in PvM, it would make them far more playable.

    Protection spell just doesn't do it anymore, it is far too slow casting, and the reduction in resist also proves lethal in spawn, with paralysis.
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 379
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    I feel our current slayer books allow us to kill everything that is not a dynamic spawn super mob.  The roof is fine as is. 2 players do it every day over and over.  dont fix what aint broken.
    Let's play it out a bit.  Let's assume 2 players could finish the roof bosses 2x as fast as today, using new equipment.  What's the downside to that?  It's reducing the net time spent in a given roof run.   

    The time spent keying for roof should also be reduced -- say, you key the rooms, and they stay keyed for 12 hours.  So you can do the roof any number of times during that 12 hour window once keyed, without the repeated room grind.  I think that would add to the fun.  Those same 2 players you reference could choose to keep running it all day, or they could get some of their life back.
  • Seth said:

    The dragon slayer is a lesser slayer that does double slayer damage vs ancient wrym, greater dragon, dragon and drakes.... but demon slayer is a super slayer, single slayer for all demons... I think all they need to do is make demon slayer a lesser slayer.

    That's the way it used to be. There was a "Daemon Slayer" Lesser Slayer, and a "Demon Slayer" Super Slayer that included Daemon and Gargoyle under it. One of my friends had a pre-AoS Demon Slayer Juka Bow that was modified after AoS launched, and it ended up with both Demon Slayer and Daemon Slayer on it. He would deal absurd damage to the Dark Father, but would always 1 shot himself if Blood Oathed by DF.

    Single target Necro spells such as Strangulate and Poison Strike (even though it has splash damage and is affected by Conduit) should be made affected by Slayer Spellbooks as well.
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,328
    edited December 2021
    Seth said:

    The dragon slayer is a lesser slayer that does double slayer damage vs ancient wrym, greater dragon, dragon and drakes.... but demon slayer is a super slayer, single slayer for all demons... I think all they need to do is make demon slayer a lesser slayer.

    That's the way it used to be. There was a "Daemon Slayer" Lesser Slayer, and a "Demon Slayer" Super Slayer that included Daemon and Gargoyle under it. One of my friends had a pre-AoS Demon Slayer Juka Bow that was modified after AoS launched, and it ended up with both Demon Slayer and Daemon Slayer on it. He would deal absurd damage to the Dark Father, but would always 1 shot himself if Blood Oathed by DF.

    Single target Necro spells such as Strangulate and Poison Strike (even though it has splash damage and is affected by Conduit) should be made affected by Slayer Spellbooks as well.
    Thanks for the past info, do u remember the numbers for the “absurd” damage for the DF? Because currently my cold mystic spell with dragon slayer is more than 500 per hit. I have not tried the ancient wry but I think damage is at least 200-300 per hit.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,200
    edited December 2021
    Pawain said:
    I feel our current slayer books allow us to kill everything that is not a dynamic spawn super mob.  The roof is fine as is. 2 players do it every day over and over.  dont fix what aint broken.
    Let's play it out a bit.  Let's assume 2 players could finish the roof bosses 2x as fast as today, using new equipment.  What's the downside to that?  It's reducing the net time spent in a given roof run.   

    The time spent keying for roof should also be reduced -- say, you key the rooms, and they stay keyed for 12 hours.  So you can do the roof any number of times during that 12 hour window once keyed, without the repeated room grind.  I think that would add to the fun.  Those same 2 players you reference could choose to keep running it all day, or they could get some of their life back.
    I'm not a speed gamer. I also would like to kill things faster. 

    I just do not see anything changing.

    The title of this thread portrays an imbalance.  Yet no one has posted numbers from a mage, melee toon or archer hitting the same target.  In most cases my Archer does more damage per hit.

    This gets nowhere until there is a proven imbalance in many areas.  Which playing a Mage for many hours a day along with over 3/4 of my shard. I do not see an imbalance.  I res these so called superior melee toons where I play.  The only time I have used a melee toon is in these dymanic Dungeon events.  Which I welcome as a change from my usual play.  But, my melee toons are now mothballed until the next one.  Back to mage/tamers.

    We have a player on LS that is a plain mage that just shoots fireballs at rapid pace and makes EVs.  He plays everywhere and can solo Doom.
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