DEAR DEVELOPERS..... can we please have next Year's Arc be focused on CRAFTING and Crafters ?
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Comments
Yeah everyone here knows exactly what they're talking about and indeed does know best on how every one should play in sandbox games. 99.99% of players agree. /s
Some items are not crafting related and I am missing some items. Refinements are not pictured.
Explain how this is not complicated enough.
With the system of reforging and imbuing, you already have two of your requirements for your main crafter (time consuming and need for knowledge) and it isn’t very popular.
The other suggestion you’ve asked for (no hunting) would require them to remove all ingredients needed for imbuing as well as leather, scales, bones, wool, etc. So where does the crafter get these items?
Also, just a reminder that reforging powerful items has “cannot be repaired” tag; so items “should” eventually need to be replaced.
Questions that need to be answered:
1. How does the crafter learn to create these new and competitive weapons and armor?
2. What would make them competitive to Legendary and other artifacts?
3. How does the crafter get needed resources?
4. How would you make crafting more complicated and time consuming than it already is?
There are players who have been playing a crafter for 22 years and they are not finished. lol
Or, perhaps, the various Crafting stations ?
My point being, that Crafting, over the Years, has been on a trend to be made "more simple", more "streamlined", a faster process....
I am of the idea that this simplifying trend is a VERY dangerous one..... because it makes Crafters become increasingly more subject to become mere "Mules" at the services of Fighing "main" characters and no longer characters being players as main, principal characters by players....
Sure, a number of Resources are needed to make different stuff, but once they are stocked up, how complicated, saved a few exceptions, is the making of things ?
Change all you want. I will have time to do crafting and fun stuff. So your changes are pointless.
Is your goal to make money on crafting and you think if it is changed by your means, you will be the only one that does it? So you will be making money. All of your ideas are based on yourself.
You can make money with crafting now. There are reforged Bukatos that go fro 70M each.
So clicking less has ruined crafting.... Ya I think I am done here.
@popps said.
Sure, a number of Resources are needed to make different stuff, but once they are stocked up, how complicated, saved a few exceptions, is the making of things ?
You have not tried to reforge. The complicated comes AFTER you gather the required ingredients. Gathering is just time consuming.
Right now crafting is complicated and time consuming. FACT
Why do you insist it is not? Especially since you have never reforged.
Many players have skill mules. Few players actually know all of the parts of crafting. I have only dabbled with refinements.
They had to do a lot of this for players physical health reasons. Players were genuinely getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome through the sheer volume of repetitive clicking going on.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Carpal-tunnel-syndrome/
So to be fair, these improvements had to be made to the crafting process. Switching it back, would not be cool. Players were being forced to script to protect their physical wellbeing. And whilst I am against scripting, I get why players do it for Gathering, and Crafting.
I really don't think you appreciate the volume, repetitive nature, and complication of crafting for what you can produce. (As I think it was Pawain who said - try for yourself to get 10x90 charge runic tools, to produce exactly the item you want, and then find you didn't get it, wait until you've done that process a few times. And @Pawain - I liked your picture of crafting items
)
There are so few crafters left now, not because it is too easy, but because it is too hard, and the rewards too little, and they don't have a place within the game really.
In my mind, there are more intelligent, more creative ways to improve Crafting, than just adding more Clicks, and more layers of Complication.
I am still looking for "old" recipes (Elves do not like me). I refuse to go to ATL and buy them. Only recently got enough resources to make 100 runed switches (most of which will put on a vendor) to recharge the many talismans I use in crafting things.
And I'm still working on getting to 115 Imbuing... damn that skill is almost as bad as it was GMing smithing & tinkering when we only had Power Hour...
kirthag.blogspot.com
@Popps Going to add a bit, regarding the relationship between PvM and Crafting. I think I believe completely the opposite to you, but get back to the same place - Crafters should have a more pivotal role in UO.
In my mind, Hunters (PvMers) and Gatherers should mainly be hunting for Crafting resources. Yes - Gold can drop from monsters known for hoarding gold, but in reality, would Monsters be hoarding stashes of Legendary items? Yes Humanoids/other Intelligent/Magical species would I guess. Mostly, you would hunt monsters for a specific hide or ingredient.
So I almost believe, most gear drops should be removed from PvM, and the drops should be the Crafting resources. Then you bring these resources back to Crafters to make the gear. Yes, well designed, unique artefacts such as Crimson, Tangle, Slither etc, should come from Flavoured mobs etc - but there should be a storyline, and reason for that particular Monster for having it.
This way, you bring Crafters back into the game for real.
This could easily be a weeks at a time story line. Get ingredients each week. At the end have them to craft an item. A shirt with stats. The kind you can wear with full armor. Or a Kilt with stats.
It's just like other UO adventures, Whetstone etc.
My opinion about the shortage of Crafters is instead another.... and is due to Looted items being far better, for the most part, as compared to Crafted items (with a few exceptions....).
It simply is not worth the hassle to craft items now, better just go out and get drops....
How would then Crafters starting their business be able to afford the many millions of UO Gold which likely Fighters would ask them for Crafting Recipes and Resources ?
It would be a catch 22 scenario.... Crafters needing millions of UO Gold to start their business (recipes are a must as well as ingredients to make anything) and not having them.....
My argument is really that of being able to see once again Crafting become a Main playing role in Ultima Online, and not just a mere "Mule" character subject to mostly or only supplying one's own Fighters' in game crafting needs....
Why should Crafting be relegated to a SECONDARY role in Ultima Online ?
What is wrong, if I may ask, about wanting it to have its rightfull Role as a Primary, MAIN playing Role just like Fighting has ?
Ha I had a swords miner/smith. Smelt while in combat.
Seriously, crafting does need a bump. What that would be is just a matter of opinion.
Popps is just gonna have to Samp up like the rest of us!
Crafting needs a bump . Thats is a fact. I am totally for making better items.
Crafting can be a main playing role now: Or Primary, Main. (you are just spouting synonyms)
If you want to be a crafter right now you can easily find things to craft for others. Jewelry, 100 % LRC 70 resist suits. dexxer suits, Weapons crafting is in dire need.
Some players do not know that you can improve their template with crafted items. Refinements: Few know what they are or how they can help a template. I could spend hours making bracelets and rings for players that I see daily, but I aint got that much time or desire.
If someone wants to 100% be a crafter, or T hunter, or Fisher or Pirate or etc they can do that now. BUT
All roles in UO are secondary:
We all can use something from another role of the game. That is how the community is bound.
UO has progressed just like RL. You dont have to see all the roles. You can order online.
Making crafting only accessible to players that only do crafting is not going to happen. It goes against the mission of UO.
Last reply. You are just saying the same thing over and over trying to build on repetition., but your foundation is FALSE. Crafting can be a full time role in UO.
My argument is that a crafter should NOT mandatorily "require" Fighting skills (or an alternate character to do the fighting....).
A Crafter should, as I see it, be able to perfectly and normally be able to carry out his/her Profession WITHOUT any need to resort to fighting or be "subject" to Fighters' moods for him/her be able to even carry out his/her Profession (ingredients needed to craft) or even get it started (recipes needed to make items...).
We have a totally, 180 degrees different vision of what Crafting should be, it looks to me.
To my viewing, Crafting should be permitted to be a STANDALONE Profession that is not "that much" dependant on Fighting content to exist....
This is not so, I disagree.
Saved a few, VERY limited exceptions (high end Luck pieces, some Weapons), there is hardly any realistic demand for Crafting services, certainly, not enough for a non-fighting, primary played Crafter character to be able to afford the tens upon tens of millions of Recipes and the tens or hundreds of thousands which some resources needed for Crafting cost, prices imposed by Fighters....
Couple this with the fact that many players have BOTH Crafters and Fighters and, thus, have all their Crafting needs be covered and are fully self-sufficient, and I do not see where this Crafting "Market" might be....
Not large enough, at least, to permit to Crafter to recover the investment of 30, 40 millions of UO Gold for 1 single Crafting Recipe or the stocking up of really expensive Resources some of which are priced by Fighters quite outrageously....
Customers are quite demanding, and when they want something they want it NOW, waiting for them is usually not an option....
Therefore, since a Crafter has no clue what they might be asked to make by a customer, this means that they HAVE TO stock up any and all resources, and in quite a good quantity, so as to be ready for when that customer comes with that particular item request.
Well, I got news..... the stocking up for many expensive Resources (because of their prices gouged up by Fighters) does not come cheap.... it can be VERY daunting to a starting Crafter or one that has not a large UO Bank account....
All of this, KILLS Crafting and limits it to what it is now, pretty much players having a Fighter Main AND a Crafter "Mule" and being self-sufficient in their Crafting needs....
No Market or hardly any for Crafting.
I am sorry, but I remember Crafting being something TOTALLY different in Ultima Online..... back in 1997 and during those initial Years, Crafting WAS a thing, Crafters COULD very well be a Primary Profession for a player who wanted to play a Crafter.....
Then everything changed, and Crafting was made totally subject to Fighting and Fighters' moods....
Well, others may like this, I don't.
I would like to see Crafting make a FULL come back as a Primary playing style in Ultima Online WITHOUT Crafters and Crafting being held HOSTAGE by Fighters and fighting content....
Hi @Popps - I don't think there is any completely standalone skill in UO, and that is not the point, there are meant to be symbiotic relationships between the professions. That is what helps give them all a role to play within the game.
PvPers have the powerscrolls, Trammies have all the Artefact and Loot drops. The relationships get strained when it feels out of balance - for example Sampires being able to complete most game content solo. Scripters being able to gain so much more than normal players. Crafters having not so much of a role in the game. I think PvMers should be pegged back on Loot drops, and they should be gathering ingredients for Crafters, who then make the best gear. In my mind, Crafted gear, should certainly be the best gear, not the other way around. Unless it is a specific Mob storyline based special artefact drop such as Ornament of the Magician - (the best Artefact of all time by the way).
Crafters are not going to be able to magically produce all their ingredients and resources. It is normal practice, for them to start their path as Gatherers, to even gather enough to complete their training. Then it was quite normal for them to pick up a weapon, to hunt some of the basic mobs they needed for other ingredients. Then it would be quite normal for Hunters to have to go out and earn the harder ingredients, such as Peerless, or Stygian Abyss ingredients - all these parts are already in the game.
The problem is, as you say, and I have said in different words, PvM loot is just so much better, and Crafting is too intricate and produces way too little. So you either find ways to boost crafting, boost the items they can make, or reduce what can be gained in PvM. The Intricacy of Crafting, and many of the methods of gaining ingredients are fine (with the exception of the complete randomness you get from the best method of crafting - Greater Reforging) - it does not need to be made more difficult, or have more clicks added.
I think most of us agree Crafting needs a boost. The issue is, how to get there, from where we are now. PvM loot got too strong and unbalanced the game. Players don't want to see even stronger loot, so that rules out bumping the stats on Crafted gear (for some - for others this is OK). Players don't like seeing things nerfed, so it makes it harder to peg back PvM loot - which is what they have been doing in my opinion (We've gone from very common 14 property drops, back to what seems a fixed 8 property drops), it seems like that to me. Players like me, just say delete all the PvM loot, that's extreme, and in practice probably cannot be achieved, and would cause uproar, so whilst I say stuff like that, I get that it is not really an option for the developers.
I think the Developers need to come up with their plan/vision for Crafters in UO, communicate it, so the players know their path, then start implementing it. I don't think a Crafter can go completely Standalone, though as Pawain has said, it is still perfectly possible to function with a Crafter as your main. It is in fact still my second most used character after my PvP Mage. My Mage goes out and does all the exciting stuff, my Crafter chills out in the castle doing stuff. My PvP Dexxer has 3rd most usage, followed by Dungeon Rogue, Thrower, Tamer, Mystic in that order.
From my own point of view.
I don't have any 'mules'
I do have crafters in my family - they are as worthy of respect as my hunter characters.
My hunters hunt for my crafters, my crafters craft for my hunters. It is a symbiotic relationship.
I no more consider my crafters to be 'mules' than I considered myself to be a 'mule' when I was making clothes for myself and my family when we were all younger.
I would be very upset if I found myself excluded from that part of the game because I prefer a more varied playstyle.
I beg your pardon ?
Don't Fighters have "Loot Drops" for quite some cool items from Lesser Magic Items all the way up to Legendary items and Artifacts with unique modifiers ?
It looks to me that Fighters can very well do without Crafters......
While Crafters, currently, have simply not an alternative since it is Fighters who get from fighting the best Recipes and the most usefull resources necessary for Crafting without which there is quite a lot of no High End Crafting, it looks to me that Fighters can very well find their cool items without bothering with Crafters, for the most part.....
I must have a problem in making myself be understood in what I mean because people keep misunderstanding my argument.....
If Crafted items, with a Crafting revamp, will be put ON PAR with Looted Items, NOT BETTER (mind you, NOW, Looted Items ARE better as compared to what items Crafters can make, saved a few, VERY limited exceptions....), please explain to me HOW ON EARTH will then Fighters will become subject to Crafters if they will ALWAYS have the alternative to go fight and Loot for their drops RATHER THEN go buy them from Crafters....
It is NOW that Crafters are subject to Fighters, assuming that a Crafters' revamp will empower Crafters to make same quality items as Looted ones, Fighters will STILL have the ability to disregard the Crafting market and go fight and Loot for their items....
YET, depending how things will be changed and revamped for Crafting, AT LEAST Crafters will be having an opportunity to have a market and sell their wares.....
Have I perhaps explained myself better now ?
This. Crafting will never regress to making your name standing at the forge taking orders again. The best we can hope for is a little love for the crafted suits.
The most important question is why you keep doing this, to every skill, every week?
Regress ?
First, back in days, people was "standing at the Firge taking orders" because there was no Global Chat...
Nowadays, thanking to Global Chat, whomever was to need Crafters' Services could simply ask in Chat if there was any Crafter online to provide the needed Services....
Easy, convenient for both parties.
Personally, I would not see it as a "regress".... but a Crafting Revamp to permig to Crafting and Crafters to make a TRUE comeback as the rightfull important Profession as it once was in Ultima Online.
Perhaps because I am of the naive idea that these Forums are intended to discuss things about Ultima Online, for ideas brainstorming, to provide feedback about Ultima Online and, in general, to discuss ANYTHING related to Ultima Online ?
Discussion is, to my my understanding, bringing up one's own ideas and differying opinions about something, discuss them and then, eventually, those who need to decide upon actually making changes to Ultima Online (the Developers....), would make up their minds hearing all parties involved and think what to do about the game.....
Also to be noted, that I understand that usually those players posting on games' Forums (inluding these Forums for Ultima Online) are a minority of the players' base, and not necessarily a subset that might be representative of the entire players' base preferences....
Therefore, is my opinion, the Developers should listen to the IDEAS presented before them, regardless whether they may be presented by a group of players or a single individual and evaluate the ideas presented, not the numbers of posters on the Forums supporting them....
This, because, as I said, not necessarily those players posting on the Forums could be representative of the entire players' base for that game.
For example, take the recent changes to Treasure Hunting (last Publish).... on these Forums many posters were quite vocal against the changes done and YET, in the game, I have met MANY players approving and enjoying those changes....
So, and I say it again, I think that the Developers should listed to the IDEAS presented to them and evaluate them for the better sake of Ultima Online regardless of how many posters might be for or against those ideas on these Forums....