Stop Breaking Bushido and Just Nerf the Bokuto

McDougle

All bitter sarcasm and smart mouthing aside we must have a pvm voice in any pvp change discussion as historically it seems pvm being affected was not taken into account 

Lynk

quickblade said:

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

nah man, most bok mages are running 120 stam with 20 ssi to swing the hatchet (which is 2.75) at cap.  Upping bok to 2.5 is only going to help bok mages, because base damage range increases with weapon speed.  All you're going to do is add 3-4 dmg per nerve strike.

quickblade

When you say most bushido mages run 120 stam and 20 ssi, I honestly doubt it's the case but I agree on when you say if the bokuto speed is reduced to 2,5s it would increase the base damage, which could be a bad thing, unless they made an exception for the bokuto and kept it's 10-12 base dmg with 2,5s speed.

What about if they nerfed down the base dmg of the bokuto back to 9-11 like it was originally and keeping its speed at 2s, after all, it's a wooden weapon , and the base damage should be less than any other metal weapon at that speed 2s, which are at 10-12 base damage.

Not even mentionning that wood weapons can be enhanced for 'extra stats' that metal weapons don't even have access to.

Yoshi

"at the moment people don't put swing speed on bokutos because it's not required, if the weapon was slower, people would just add swing speed... let us not forget that as a wooden weapon you can even enhance with Ash give 10 swing speed"

sibble

If you really want to nerf hybrid mages then you'd do something like if template has over 200 skill points allocated in casting schools then decrease their weapon damage. *FOR EXAMPLE*

Changes to the weapon directly effect more than just hybrid templates.

quickblade

Yoshi said:

"at the moment people don't put swing speed on bokutos because it's not required, if the weapon was slower, people would just add swing speed..."

and it's exactly my point , which is to force hybrid mages to invest in ssi and stamina increase to hit as fast.
2,5s or 2,75s would be ideal, but like lynk mentionned, if they were to increase it's base damage according to a slower speed, it wouldn't fix the issue at all, it would actually be worse, so they'd need to make an exception for the bokutos and keeping the 10-12 base dmg with 2,5 - 2,75s, this wouldn't hurt the dexxers because most dexxers have high stamina.

But that being said, logically, it would make more sense if they lowered the base dmg of the bokuto to 9-11 since it's a wooden weapon.
I also like sibble idea of having a kind of 'focused hybrid mage' where they would cap the damage if the player has more than 70 magery combined with parry/bush exemple.

Or what about if the chance to paralize from bokuto was like 25-50% of the time, instead of being guaranteed stun on first try. Or like diminushing returns on the nerve strike when spamming it within 2 sec, like -25% dmg everytime time you recast it within 2seconds

Del805

The Issue with the bokuto is not the base damage, On a cursed Target at 60 tactics you hit base damage for 10-14 Then 0-15 hit spell damage. Then the nerve strike is between 15-25 damage.
I do not know how much damage the splinter does but when that Procs it's also Additional damage. This is all done with just 60 tactics, making it inefficient to use anything other than a 60 tactics bokuto character. 

If the (Nervestrike True was based on the player's tactics then more investment is needed to do max damage Nervestrikes, kinda like how Deahstrike is

Yoshi

“

*shrug*, 

With the underwater exploit still active, there’s enough power creep with all the maxed out items that I can fit enough +skill points to have 100 tactics on bok mage with Clean jewellery even”

ezikel

just make that bushido drop fast cast to 0 .

gay

ezikel said:

just make that bushido drop fast cast to 0 .

lmao what a terrible idea.

If you want to actually balance hybrids then you have to take something away from the from both sides of the template, not just from the mage side (in this case reduced SDI). Do this by simply reducing the damage damage weapon attacks do by 1/3, this makes it a lot harder for hybrids to reach armor ignore caps, it reduces base damage attacks (crushing, FoN, nerve strike, conc, double shot/strike etc). Hell simply make it so that if you have a combined total (not real skill) greater than 150 between Eval and Magery your True damage cap becomes 25 and your base damage attacks are reduced by 1/3.

Then tack on a nerf to nerve strike's overall multi part damage as a whole, for everyone.

Then address splintering weapon functionality, implement a cooldown to prevent splinter spam, and a mana cost and prevent it from being able to proc off any special (aka make it's functionality that of Glenda, durability loss is simply a joke) Splinter was neat in that it gave dexers something in between their specials while they waited for mana cost resets and it gave them more pressure vs anything with bandages, except that it came out 15 years too late when dexers don't actually care about their mana cost because the average suit gives them 120+ mana with 16+ MR and 52-55 LMC. Now it's just an overused nuisance that gives two free specials without any meaningful situational cost. There is a reason why people mass produce throw away accounts simply to farm splinters weapons 24/7.

Yoshi

"But warriors having mysticism is fine?

120 bushido/120 parry, 150 hit points and still killed in 1 hit by spellplague glenda shield bash with enchanted weapon "

gay

Yoshi said:

"But warriors having mysticism is fine?

120 bushido/120 parry, 150 hit points and still killed in 1 hit by spellplague glenda shield bash with enchanted weapon "

Addressing the glaring issues of Mysticism dexxers, paired with the shield bash mechanics (and the EC exploit* if they still havent fixed that) is another thread in itself.

But you can just add Mysticism to the list of skills that would reduce the true damage cap (which would also reduce the dmg of shield bash, as it is a PvP capped ability)

We have "focused" mages so why can't we have focused warriors?

Also, this change would affect shield bash mages, reducing their shield bash damage to 25. Just before anyone points that out. Parry is effectively a weapon skill now, with a weapon that cannot be disarmed by an opponent.

*the glenda shieldbash EC exploit isn't something I fully know the mechanics of as it was figured out while I wasn't playing, and I don't use EC. @Lynk or @AngrySQ would be better suited to explaining it probably.

Del805

Again, its really the bokuto. Every other weapon requires more than 60 tactics to be effective. a Hatchet is a strong weapon but it don't paralyze you. the bokuto just can hit for 55 damage with 60 tactics.. so the true damage should match the weapon damage on your character paper doll with a cap at 25. if you invest 120 tactics into your character to hit that threshold you are giving up something in return. but if most players are running 15 base weapon damage I see no reason that the nerve strike itself should exceed that. 

Archangel

Del805 said:

Again, its really the bokuto. Every other weapon requires more than 60 tactics to be effective. a Hatchet is a strong weapon but it don't paralyze you. the bokuto just can hit for 55 damage with 60 tactics.. so the true damage should match the weapon damage on your character paper doll with a cap at 25. if you invest 120 tactics into your character to hit that threshold you are giving up something in return. but if most players are running 15 base weapon damage I see no reason that the nerve strike itself should exceed that. 

so don't invest 120 tactics into the template, and do what the others are doing! sheeesh!