Stop Breaking Bushido and Just Nerf the Bokuto

Del

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash, you can get 100 damage in 1.25 seconds, plus it stuns, and it procs with a splinter. you only need to invest 60 tacts into the temp (plus bushido that gives you a ton of other stuff) 

Move the bokuto to a two-handed weapon... Thx, or cap nerve strike at 15 damage. 

sibble

The problem with your solution is that it sucks - it would completely nerf dexers.

If you want to fix the problem then you do something like "if character has over 60 of either magery, mysticism or spellweaving, then they can't nerve strike".

And I also don't completely agree with that either, there's a better way just no one cares.  I see really great PVP ideas posted on some of these threads, completely ignored by any dev and never implemented.

BECAUSE THE TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS THAT THE DEVS ARE GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT WITHOUT COMMUNICATING WITH THE PVP COMMUNITY.

TO DEVS:  You add a forum to your website so that you can have better communication with your users.  There's even an option to add a poll.  Why not poll PVP changes before implementing them.  I'm not saying let that be the final word but at least take a minute and see what we think...

Del

sibble said:

The problem with your solution is that it sucks - it would completely nerf dexers.

If you want to fix the problem then you do something like "if character has over 60 of either magery, mysticism or spellweaving, then they can't nerve strike".

And I also don't completely agree with that either, there's a better way just no one cares.  I see really great PVP ideas posted on some of these threads, completely ignored by any dev and never implemented.

BECAUSE THE TRUTH, YOU SEE, IS THAT THE DEVS ARE GOING TO DO WHATEVER THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT WITHOUT COMMUNICATING WITH THE PVP COMMUNITY.

TO DEVS:  You add a forum to your website so that you can have better communication with your users.  There's even an option to add a poll.  Why not poll PVP changes before implementing them.  I'm not saying let that be the final word but at least take a minute and see what we think...

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

McDougle

Ninjutsu got nerfed into the grave because of pvp "issues " god help us if bushido is nerfed and some how everyone's sampire is worthless...

Del

McDougle said:

Ninjutsu got nerfed into the grave because of pvp "issues " god help us if bushido is nerfed and some how everyone's sampire is worthless...

that is exactly the point. If You keep messing with bushido, you start to open up a can of worms. swords overall are superior to all melee in terms of bushido, no-dachi, bokuto capt johns hat. 

Yoshi

Del said:

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash,

"it is only the hit spell (normally hit lightning) that is affected by spell focusing sash, and this only hits at equivelent of 80 eval int, nerve strike is not affected by spell focusing"

Del

Yoshi said:

Del said:

The Bokuto is the Problem with bushido. 

If stacked with a focus sash,

"it is only the hit spell (normally hit lightning) that is affected by spell focusing sash, and this only hits at equivelent of 80 eval int, nerve strike is not affected by spell focusing"

I was giving it the benefit of the doubt as well.. soo with 0 di, you can do max damage Nerves... your weapon melee damages a minimum of 10 plus 12=14 damage on a weapon hit it cursed, then anywhere between 15-25 damage with Nerve Strike, and that is with 0 damage increase and 60 tactics, 

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

sibble

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

Del

sibble said:

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

Even for dexxers, its a bit extreme; if you only need the minimum skill with no damage increase to do max damage on a weapon, it's a bit over the top. . The template is not the issue it's the weapon... no matter what variation of a bushido character you PVP on the bokuto significantly scales better than anything. And its not a hard fix either, just scale down damage to 15 max or turn it into a two handed weapon. Players still have their op damage, but players need to decide if they want to go balanced or lose potions. 

CovenantX

sibble said:

Del said:

How would nerfing the bokuto nerf dexxers? If 90% of the pvpers use the same weapon, that indicates the weapon is overpowered.. 

A  one-handed weapon that only requires 60 tactics to hit for 55 damage & swings at 1.25 should not exist 

Making it two-handed would also increase their parry chance for dexxers as well.. otherwise, use a pickaxe like any decent pvper. 

You mentioned focus sash... I find that funny because of the people using bokutos, most are mages right now - so you died to a bokuto mage and ran to the forums to complain about a weapon, not realizing the impact it would have on non-mage users.

Del said:

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

Spamming NS doesn't do anything... so you must be talking about bokuto mages.  A proper spell dump + nerve strike could probably kill someone in two seconds.  The bokuto alone can't kill anyone in two seconds unless they're running around with 70 HP.

  Nope, my bard has 70 hp thank you very much... it takes 3+ hits to kill me.... also don't forget the luck suit! (0 hpi)     maybe with a spell-focusing sash built up it would 2-shot me... 

I guess the OP is subtracting the damage taken while building up the sash though..  that alone changes it from 2s to about 30s. (maybe 15s if the guy being casted on is afk =])

sibble

CovenantX said:

  Nope, my bard has 70 hp thank you very much... it takes 3+ hits to kill me.... 

  

sibble

Del said:

if you only need the minimum skill with no damage increase to do max damage on a weapon, it's a bit over the top.

So this formula for nerve strike bonus damage is completely false?

And that's just for the bonus damage from NS.

You have to also figure the actual weapon damage which is calculated by anatomy, tactics, and DI on your suit.

So it's 120 Bush, 120 Anatomy, 120 Tactics, 100% DI to do max damage with a nerve strike not to mention the 120 Swords you need in order to hit your target.  That's 480 skill points and a lot of DI on your suit if you don't run it on your weapon.

sibble

No offense whatsoever here I don't enjoy any of this.

@Del you've shown 0 knowledge of the subject you've brought up but still insist on changing.

1.  Spell focusing sash does not boost the bonus damage from nerve strike.
2.  Having minimum required Bushido skill does not yield maximum damage.
3.  Having the minimum required Tactics (60) to perform a weapon special does not yield maximum damage.
4.  You said it can stun and proc a splinter, but as soon as you take a splinter tick of damage you are no longer stunned.
5.  Literally everything you said in this comment below is wrong.  You have shown a misunderstanding of gaming mechanics and I'm unsure where you are pulling your facts from.

Del said:

I was giving it the benefit of the doubt as well.. soo with 0 di, you can do max damage Nerves... your weapon melee damages a minimum of 10 plus 12=14 damage on a weapon hit it cursed, then anywhere between 15-25 damage with Nerve Strike, and that is with 0 damage increase and 60 tactics, 

the bok lets you pretty much kill anyone in two seconds. 

There's a plethora of information available to you through multiple websites.  This is not hidden information - it is public.  Your opinion was based on fighting a mage with a Bokuto yet your changes will affect more than just mages...

You got blown up by a spell focusing Bushido mage - there's nothing new here.  The trick to avoiding this damage is to know when it's coming and either run off-screen before the dump happens or use some of the available defensive skills that are offered in the game: Feint, Evade, Smoke Bomb, Mana Shield, Run Away... Whatever you do, don't sit there and take the damage without interrupting them or using a defensive skill.

LearnMe

Buff other weapons.

Seth

Just a 2 cent and off I go. Resigned from pvp permanently recently.

Maybe don’t run, stop running. We all know you can’t kill anyone as long as they are running in a straight line 24/7. Snowpiercer.

Stand within 4x4 space and fight 10 rounds and see which one is best. The winner gets nerfed, lol     I had my experience that parry mage isn’t king, esp. after the nerf. Stick around don’t run and see who is really king. Someone killed several templates with just a bokuto mage, everyone is going for it. I am out of pvp now because it’s too expensive and what works gets nerfed all the time and you lose all investment.

— last words from a dead UO pvp player

hunter11

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Bilbo

Tamers running around with 5 dragons.

Seth

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Oh, I thought the hally mage is coming back in NLS?

Yeah, some used to pvp wearing underwear. There was nothing to nerf!

hunter11

Seth said:

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Oh, I thought the hally mage is coming back in NLS?

Yeah, some used to pvp wearing underwear. There was nothing to nerf!

parry mages are very defensive but if you're a decent caster in a cheap suit you dont need to worry about dexxers problem is you probably wont be able to kill a good caster not enough offensive ability unless you run wrestle parry and use parrying mastery to shield bash but then you need hci its really nice tho and with wrestle you can non stop disarm anyone with a wep just an fyi and can probably make that temp with the armor you own and a cpl hundred mil in jewels so not that expensive even bok mage should be cheap cuffs with resist and sdi captain johns hat a good bok maybe disarm wep and... good/decent casting armor great defensive and offensive ability 

hunter11

and as far as nothing to change from those days yeah there has been a lot that needed to change those days were a joke was all casters you didnt see any decent dexxers until after aos came out maybe even after that 

Seth

hunter11 said:

Seth said:

hunter11 said:

seth since this game has been around pvp has constantly changed @ Seth perhaps you should upgrade with the times i remember mages running around with regs and hallys stuff changes 

Oh, I thought the hally mage is coming back in NLS?

Yeah, some used to pvp wearing underwear. There was nothing to nerf!

parry mages are very defensive but if you're a decent caster in a cheap suit you dont need to worry about dexxers problem is you probably wont be able to kill a good caster not enough offensive ability unless you run wrestle parry and use parrying mastery to shield bash but then you need hci its really nice tho and with wrestle you can non stop disarm anyone with a wep just an fyi and can probably make that temp with the armor you own and a cpl hundred mil in jewels so not that expensive even bok mage should be cheap cuffs with resist and sdi captain johns hat a good bok maybe disarm wep and... good/decent casting armor great defensive and offensive ability.

Yeah, the reason why I used a parry mage is because my scribe mage was quite useless against dexxer. My parry mage has 80 dex after potion and 45 HCI and some SSI so that it can stun, disarm pretty Ok. Add the shield bash, it can pose a threat to the weaker opponent or force them to go into the defensive. Overall against the best players, it has high survival ability but lack the killing power against them - I am only an average player.

Recently I was thinking about streetfighter or mortal combat. There are many different types of characters to choose from and each character has their killer moves, defenses, etc. Its up to us to know when to apply the strength, cover the weakness, and when the opponent makes a wrong move and we can do that dragon punch, or slamming throw for the final KO. There is no worry about nerfing of skills or expensive items in those pvp game. Etc. Such arcade games are even older than UO but they don't keep nerfing each template after 24 years.

So this other reason why I don't play pvp in UO anymore is perhaps there is a lack of variety of templates that actually work like this.

I think its unique in UO. When you cannot win in the game, you can always ask to nerf them in the forum.

Teclo

I also noticed confidence can be cast again the same second it been purged,
some cooldown for confidence should be considered

McDougle

Woof woof says the dog archer....

Ben

McDougle said:

Woof woof says the dog archer....

Ha-haaaa! That's it. I am done. I come home from a late night of meetings at Volvo and shots of Absolute...No more signing on here after drinks. Woof woof. Too much.

quickblade

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

McDougle

quickblade said:

They need to reduce the speed of the bokuto, only way to fix this whole bushido mage thing, by affecting the hybrid mages by forcing them to wear actual dexxer stats like swing speed increase and stamina increase to hit fast on a bokuto, because as it is right now they dont need any of that to hit 1,25s, and it wouldnt nerf the actual dexxers with bokutos because they have high stam to begin with.

So nerf bokuto down to 2,5s base speed, most problems fixed.

This and most pvp fixes punish non pvpers we need better solutions 

Max_Blackoak

who uses bokutos in PvM?!?

McDougle

Max_Blackoak said:

who uses bokutos in PvM?!?

People who enjoy nerve strike? Most 190 luck weapons are bokutos I'd say especially ninjas but brave pvp warriors cried until they were nerfed to nothing 

quickblade

Ignore McDougle, he's got no idea what he's talking about
'punish pvm' and he throws out a bokuto with 190 luck argument and nerve strike in pvm, lol whatever dude.

McDougle

quickblade said:

Ignore McDougle, he's got no idea what he's talking about
'punish pvm' and he throws out a bokuto with 190 luck argument and nerve strike in pvm, lol whatever dude.

Every pvp "fix" has broken something for pvm every single one it's impossible for it not to...

quickblade

I think you are just trying to dig an issue that doesn't exist. I understand sometimes pvp fix might nerf pvm but not always, and in this case the bokuto speed nerf wouldn't affect pvm a second im sorry