Pub 108 - House Decay Rules Feedback

Uriah_Heep

Rafman said:

If they're deleting vet rewards because players didn't earn them - personally, I don't care, i'm fine with that. I assumed they were doing so because of some glitches with certain item types.

Seems to be a big logic gap though - how have any of the other items inside an idoc been earned by any of the idoc'ers? 

It's CYA time, and thats the best excuse they could arrive at in a short time

KHAN

@Bleak @Kyronix at this point and time, with the mess this has become, the best, fairest (in order NOT to benefit the scripters and gold sellers) and probably ONLY thing to do, assuming the goal WAS to try to stop them, is to delete EVERYTHING and call it a day. Because it is pretty obvious that these changes have NOTHING to do with stopping them. Also make house placement random (say 5 days to 14 days) in order to curtail the ones who script place houses, and then sell them for $$$. 

Garth_Grey

Don't worry guys, you'll all get your way and all of your individual favorite things that you all want to get for free won't be changed, and Siege won't be changed because there are no scripters there and it's fine the way it is, rinse repeat ad nauseam.

Dixie_of_Chessy1

Lord_Obsidian_Knight said:

If your saying that deleting the vet rewards is because it was earned by that player does that mean that you will deleting event items as well?  Because they were also earned by a player at some point.  You are going to ruin a lot of people reason of playing by destroying idocs.  Terrible. @ Mesanna @ Kyronix @ Bleak @ #savetheidocs

i actually countered with this as well last night while speaking with Kyronix,  i cant remember exactly how he worded it  but it was something to the effect of ...yes they are a reward , but they arent in the same grouping of reward as a vet reward is considered to be. and that they didnt "as of last night" have any plans of deleting em items in idocs......although personally i think the majority of them look trashy, and are just useless junk...id much rather see them deleted in idocs before seeing vet rewards deleted.....actually like i said im over it, they should just terminate idocs all together...delete it all.  

Danpal

Am ok with some vet rewards being deleted. Soulstone and transfer shields. No use to anyone but the owner.

Char statues should not be deleted and guild stones as well. Both are a way to remember someone or a guild in game.  When I came back I went to a friend's idoc I asked everyone there just for her statue so I can have something to remeber her by.


Please dont delete them and guild stones.

Rafman

KHAN said:

@ Bleak @ Kyronix at this point and time, with the mess this has become, the best, fairest (in order NOT to benefit the scripters and gold sellers) and probably ONLY thing to do, assuming the goal WAS to try to stop them, is to delete EVERYTHING and call it a day. Because it is pretty obvious that these changes have NOTHING to do with stopping them. Also make house placement random (say 5 days to 14 days) in order to curtail the ones who script place houses, and then sell them for $$$. 

lol - they're not going to delete idocs altogether. Just because there's a few overtly expressive people unhappy and complaining continuously - it won't change that.

Idocs are a huge playstyle in UO - just judging by all the posts everytime there's an idoc discussion you can see how popular a topic it is.

These changes they have made are making idocs much more accessible to everyone. It will just grow the playstyle- which is great. Anyone can now know where an idoc is, and when it will fall. That's one of the biggest advantage scripters had. And the new loot system with barrels is a great way of ensuring the loot is spread around more evenly across different participants. ie everyone gets a share, which is what everyone was begging for for the past few years.

People complaining about some aspects of these changes shouldn't lose sight of the fact that overall, these changes are a huge improvement over what was before. 

popps

Dixie_of_Chessy1 said:

So, i talked with Kyronix for a long while on test last night. The team seem deeply offended that we are questioning their loyalty to the players rather than the gold sellers and big scripting teams. I tried to explain to him that by deleting the Vet rewards it would only allow 3rd party sites to make even more money off the hoards of this stuff they had stored.... he didnt seem  to think it would.  I also pretty much begged him to reconsider because of the people who will never make it to getting 15-20 year vet rewards..  i will sum up what he told me best i can... they basically see no reason why we should have access to another persons vet rewards because a person paying for that account had earned them, i countered this by saying that the age restriction should have never been lifted from them then... to which he said no they earned them they can do what they want with them... * go figure cause they cant sell their shields if they want to so that seems an invalid argument to me also"    I ask him if he was even reading the forums to see how unhappy people were about this, they are reading this but he also said that the people at the meetups were largely unhappy about players having vet rewards they didnt earn " even though they still wanted to be free to sell theirs"   it came across to me as the opinions of the people at the meet ups, the people he met in person, those are the people whos opinions they actually value.  " I wonder if he knew how many of those people that were there shaking hands and brown nosing  actually are running gold selling sites, because atleast 3 people that i saw in the photos of the 20th meet up do own gold selling sites....it probably funded their trip to the meet up lol"   

I sold my  vet accounts when i found uo to be hopeless and corrupt. 3 idoc teams ran that packy loading script for over a year with no action taken on them what so ever. they have more in stock than your average idocer , hell they have more in stock than your average scripter will ever have. Normal people will never be able to get a leg up in this game. There was a time i could devote hours and hours to UO, and i did.... i cant do that anymore, i can barely stay logged in long enough to do anything more than play with deco at my house. When i read about the new idoc changes, when i 1st tested them even i was thrilled!  no having to run a shard, no having to time the stupid thing, and no having to sit and wait at 5, 10, and 15 hour hoping that a house will fall and fingers crossed that i get to pick up at least one item before the packy scripters make everything vanish..... i was over joyed at the thought of being able to go to a house when its going to fall and being able to get something i could use to deco my house, a vet reward i needed possibly " a water wheel and garden shed being at the top of my list" ....   I actually lost sleep over this last night, thats something that as a mom i cant afford to do.  For me coming back to UO was a mistake, and the Dev team catering to a certain group of people is a mistake. It will cost them subscriptions,  it will cost them mine.   Im just done guys, im over it... i will never be as valuable of a customer to them as the handful that they keep on the pedestal....

........ they basically see no reason why we should have access to another persons vet rewards because a person paying for that account had earned them........

I have to say that, reading this made me re-consider my stance on whether or not Veteran Rewards should be deleted....

Initially, I thought that deleting them would be an unneded loss to Ultima Online but now, I can see the point of "why" the Developers might want them deleted.

And, to be honest, it is to my opinion an agreeable with point....

It is true and a fact that A Veteran Reward is addressed to a specific account.

Then, the owner of THAT account has the right to do what they want with that Veteran Reward, that is, whether to keep it for themselves or whether to give it to another account/player....

So, having them "drop" from an IDOC would defeat that Account's owner will..... if the Veteran Account items were in that House, this means that the House owner wanted to KEEP them, not pass them to some other account.

So, by letting them drop with the Account, would be like going against the account that earned those Veteran Rewards in the first place....

So, looking at it under this perspective, I can see the logic of wanting Veteran Rewards be deleted and not passed on as IDOCs' drops....

On the other end, though, it is also necessary to consider the possibility, at least in theory, that over time, scripters may have stocked up a large number of these Veteran Rewards from past IDOCs so, this change might end up with the unwanted effect of benefitting scripters as their existing Stock of Veteran Rewards might become more valuable if, from now on, IDOCs will have their Veteran Rewards be deleted....

So it looks odd to me that a change to IDOCs asked by players who have had enough of scripters at IDOCs might, in the end, result in unwanted benefits to scripters....

The same is, I would imagine, with deleting commodity deeds and stackables from IDOCs....

If players will not be able to get these from IDOCs any more, because deleted, and likely we are talking of mainly Resources and Craftable ingredients for the most part, won't Scripters also benefit from such deletion when they might have in stock already, one would imagine, at least in theory, a large stock of Resources and Craftable materials from previous IDOCs ?

Not to mention, that, I would imagine, scripters would continue scripting in UO to gather Resources and Crafting ingredients....

So, it would look to me, deleting from IDOCs Commodity Deeds, Stacked Items which likely could be Resources and Crafting Materials, could likely end up penalizing the players who participate at IDOCs and result in an unwanted effect of benefitting Scripters....

Sure, it is an unwanted consequence, nonetheless, I cannot help not consider how players, for the large majority, to my impression, were asking for changes to IDOCs which would have stopped or at least hurt severely scripting...

KHAN

@Bleak @Kyronix My understanding is that the IDIC changes were to "stop" the rampant scripting/cheating, tied to the RMTs of the "professional" IDOC'rs. In my opinion, These changes fail MISERABLY.

IvonnaSeasmore

well IMO  you might as well delete the whole house since you delete all the good stuff.  Nothing will be left except for junk.  I was looking forward to a fair playing field, but you went to far with deleting the good stuff like vet rewards, commodity deeds and other good stuff.  Looks like I won't be doing the Idocs now.....  *grumbles*

Polaris

Not to forget also.... the website people and gold sellers have already bought over fifty 1000 month old veteran accounts with real money. I know of a prominent Luna guy who was at the 20th meet and greet.... who bought one about 1 week ago. I was going to get a pair of boots from someone (they turned out to be dyed, not original color, so I did not get them... I only had 40m) about a week and a half ago, and he was leaving the game because GL had died and he was too busy in real life. I asked him to please keep some stuff in case he ever comes back, he said nah... he was done for good this time, he had already made deals to sell his account and all to *****.

Of course those guys have bought 50 accounts that are older than any. My account is like 7 or 8 years old, don't even remember. Wife's just got shard shields 5 months ago..... finally we can transfer to Pacific and back. Yet those guys have bought 1000's combined. Why should their "rewards" be worth so much? Why should we not get them from IDOCs..... can someone explain to me again please?

Sorry, that shot up red flags for me. I'm not questioning anybody's loyalty... but just pointing out that some of them expressing opinions may in fact be the wrong ones to be listened to. Those are the gold sellers.........

Cinderella

the problem I see with this is...
I live in an area in the US nicknamed Tornado Alley.
I have lived here for a year and we have had a tornado come through.
And there is always what is referred to as high winds.
I know there is always a risk of tornados, but I love the area.

The current problem with subscriptions being 30 days...
my main account usually goes down at the end of every month.
Every year on my birthday, I can't play my main character...

Lets say a tornado or house fire destroys my home.
And my account doesn't get paid...
I don't always get an email, when an account goes down.
And the card used expires in July... 

I have items in my house, that I would be devastated to lose.
account bound items that I love...
the wedding rings from our wedding 5 years ago...
the shard promotion lanterns.
ALL the soulstones that I keep in my houses, because its easier to switch skills...
rather than to switch chars all the time. (I used to do this after I lost my vet reward soulstones, when one of my houses fell years ago, buts its aggravating when you can't remember which char is holding them)

recently someone returned a soulstone to me, that was from an IDOC of mine.
I got the keep from my husband (when we were just friends) and it was one that he had there. Turns out that the soulstone belonged to someone else from an IDOC he went to there... which is how he got the keep to begin with. 

It was the most wonderful feeling to know that a player kept something because they knew it was in my home. And it was returned to me.... One of the things people has asked for is to make the soulstones not worth cleanup points... so people at idocs don't throw them away (the scripters throw away anything & everything that are worth points). Instead of deleting the account bound/soul bound, commodity deeds, and veteran rewards... please send these items to the owners bank box. Have a gump when they return that says "You have account bounds items from an idoc , in order to retrieve these items , please pay 500 sovereigns now" And give them a set amount of time to retrieve them. And if they don't pay that fee... then they get deleted. 

I know that if something ever happens that causes my homes to IDOC, with the proposed changes I know that I would never subscribe again... Its one thing to lose deco, but to lose personal items and veteran rewards... The thing about vet rewards, is we earned them. Whether they were chosen by us or being bought. We earned the gold that we spent to purchase them. And the thing about soulstones… I have lost one or two for each account when I had to stop playing years ago. Those wouldn't hurt as much as losing the 20 or so ones I currently have. These items should go into the players bank box... And if they don't return because they passed away... Then those are items that aren't in the game any more. And nobody is profiting from them.

Polaris

I would just create a moving crate for account bound items in a player's bank. Soulstones and shard shields automatically get saved to that. It would make a nice warm feeling for a player logging in after 5 years to see..... "Oh hey, I have 5 soulstones!" That's not a bad suggestion for certain.

Skett

When is this going WW @Kyronix @Bleak

Skett

It seems there would be is a lot more at Idocs than vet rewards 

Fortis

it s the third stage of the patch and we pass from extreme right to extreme left whitin 2 weeks..it sadly need more than a month to fix idoc for good...they are trying to fix something big in a short time so it s not manage well

Pawain

Skett said:

It seems there would be is a lot more at Idocs than vet rewards 

Many vet rewards are deco items or house utility items.  If you do not understand why these are wanted, you are not a decorator.  There are many hours of log in time used by players who are at home moving things around.  

Danpal

Why are guildstone getting deleted @Kyronix ;@Bleak

Kirthag

Pawain said:

Skett said:

It seems there would be is a lot more at Idocs than vet rewards 

Many vet rewards are deco items or house utility items.  If you do not understand why these are wanted, you are not a decorator.  There are many hours of log in time used by players who are at home moving things around.  

because we our pixels
I once spent 72 hours over 2 weeks decorating 3 houses

and there are "a lot more" at IDOCS than vet rewards - however, a whole lot of it (majority even) is just gonna sit and decay or go for trash points because what is one person's treasure is not necessarily another's.

Danpal

Kirthag said:

Pawain said:

Skett said:

It seems there would be is a lot more at Idocs than vet rewards 

Many vet rewards are deco items or house utility items.  If you do not understand why these are wanted, you are not a decorator.  There are many hours of log in time used by players who are at home moving things around.  

because we our pixels
I once spent 72 hours over 2 weeks decorating 3 houses

and there are "a lot more" at IDOCS than vet rewards - however, a whole lot of it (majority even) is just gonna sit and decay or go for trash points because what is one person's treasure is not necessarily another's.

When I did my custem 18x18 toke me 6 months to get it how I liked. Wish I would have toke some screen shots of it . When I got my castle I toke most of the decorations to there. 

Have had my castle for 6 years and am still trying to make it look nicer. 

BarefootKinship

I think the soul stones should be saved to the players bank.  Our guild has returned stones to people who have returned after one or even more years.  Soul stones mean a lot of work has been put into skills.  If  a person doesn't get their stones back they may just up and quit.  Please save them.

Joxer_The_Mighty

As an old hardcore idocer I have gotten all the stuff I have from idocs.
I have placed all my castle & keeps myself but 2.  I don't like the aspect of deleting vet rewards, commodity deed, stackable items, house only items... whats left worth anything? Em event items from other shards. I never like those They was just a money grab items anyways. those should all be shard bound items. if your going to Delete vet rewards :Because idocer didn't earn them", well why are they able to be sold then ... those then also should be account bound items then. 
Idocs is how i got all my resources Regs, wood, ingots. IDOCs are great easy way for laid back player to get resources without having to mule days on end for them. I don't  know i don't get it Why you would go through all this to make idocs better for the common player but cut out the items that made it worth doing.
Unless your just slowly trying to make idocs not worth doing so you can just remove them from the game? 

Dasilva

I think thats what they want I think they are tired of hearing Idoc this and Idoc that so now they are destroying the idoc gameplay alltogether

OH btw im selling a dragon statuette 500 mil

Polaris

IDOC is not gameplay.... a player's house falls and people can simply pick up items. Going to the lich lord spawn in Ilshenar was game play. Training in the bone knight room back in the day was game play. Going to the blood dungeon to kill paragon balrons is game play. Doing dungeon blackthorn (before the current fiasco) was game play.

There is no reason left to go to said places, as they do not drop event items.... the EM items need to stop and perhaps IDOCs do need to stop as well. As it is though, I think many are 1000% glad they are doing something to IDOCs in general. Everyone now just has to come to some sort of consensus about what is best. Half of us want to stop the scripters. Half of the people commenting ARE the scripters. That's half the problem.

Dasilva

what they are doing for idocs is asanine and to say that idocs are not a form of gameplay is absolutely silly I am pretty sure a good % of the UO playerbase does idocs for fun/profit you are NOT stopping the scripters by removing idocs, what you ARE doing is destroying the UO Market, like I said earlier Ill sell you a dragon statuette for 500 mil oh your a returning player? better go buy some gold then cause im not lowering my price. like i said destroying  the UO economy. nuh uh your not allowed to script farm those resources you have to do it by hand the way  ppl did 20 years ago, nuh uh you dont get to have imbuing resources someone left behind you have to go farm 2 castles full of armor to unravel in order to get said resources, nuh uh you dont get to get an ethereal for less than 100 mil on VS, you want an ethereal? then you better play for a year or go buy gold so you can afford the ethereal, im sorry the changes they are implementing are BAD, BTW you can look up the monnikor of Dasilva, I have beta tested and tested and been a gm or something of that manner in almost every MMORPG in the past 22 years, I am a mediocre player, meaning I am not very good, BUT I do love MMORPGS and I test/play them with the best interests at heart, and I am not afraid to speak up when a change or something being implemented into the game I enjoy playing is BAD, you can be silly and say "OH Dasilva your just a scripter" but actually no even if i WAS  a scripter I am not saying this change is BAD because of scripting I am saying this change is bad because it is simply that. BAD you think I am wrong? many MANY players in MANY games before you have said I am wrong and 90% of the time they come back to me and say DAMMIT DASILVA you were right!. so yeah this change is bad

Polaris

I saw enough people quit because of you guys... you can say what you want. I am glad they are doing something. It makes me sad, every video I watch on Youtube of Ultima has people running hacks and scripts or showing how to. You guys should really be ashamed... I am guessing you are at an IDOC or five right now......... finally everyone will be able to go and no one will be able to script it all, if there is anyone left to go.

JackFlashUk

Polaris said:

I saw enough people quit because of you guys... you can say what you want. I am glad they are doing something. It makes me sad, every video I watch on Youtube of Ultima has people running hacks and scripts or showing how to. You guys should really be ashamed... I am guessing you are at an IDOC or five right now......... finally everyone will be able to go and no one will be able to script it all, if there is anyone left to go.

The RMT script cheats are already boasting about a workaround, so don't get too excited. seems you are not so knowledgeable about idocs after all

Max_Blackoak

some shards have soulstone graveyards where soulstones salvaged from idocs are kept for players if they return.

On Siege we have several players who keep soulstones to return them to their owners when they come back. If you can't make soulstones go to the player's bank (because that would probably result in overloaded bank boxes) at least please don't delete them, it's often times a huge motivation for those people to return to the game knowing that at least skillwise they don't have to start from scratch.

Dasilva

none of what they are proposing be deleted should be deleted it doesnt help the game in anyway like I have said before  Polaris said:

I saw enough people quit because of you guys... you can say what you want. I am glad they are doing something. It makes me sad, every video I watch on Youtube of Ultima has people running hacks and scripts or showing how to. You guys should really be ashamed... I am guessing you are at an IDOC or five right now......... finally everyone will be able to go and no one will be able to script it all, if there is anyone left to go.

 then by all means do it the right way and BREAK THE SCRIPTS that is the true way to fix things you CAN put in code that will break the scripts ive seen it done many times

popps

Max_Blackoak said:

some shards have soulstone graveyards where soulstones salvaged from idocs are kept for players if they return.

On Siege we have several players who keep soulstones to return them to their owners when they come back. If you can't make soulstones go to the player's bank (because that would probably result in overloaded bank boxes) at least please don't delete them, it's often times a huge motivation for those people to return to the game knowing that at least skillwise they don't have to start from scratch.

I totally agree to salvage Soulstones for when the account owner might come back to Ultima Online.

It was already a mistake, at least to my opinion, to make Soustones be possible to be turned in for Clean Up Points which destroyed many of them from players turning them for Clean Up Points, PLEASE, @Kyronix , @Bleak , do not get them deleted now by default.... one never knows, players might come back to Ultima Online and being able to find their Soulstones again could be a nice finding for them, bringing their coming back to Ultima Online in a much better lighting and mood.

Mordred

@Dixie_of_Chessy_01 told us here and on the other forum that she spoke with @Kyronix and he is "upset" and "sad" with our response? . Ok so @Kyronix and @Mesanna, to avoid been "upset" maybe you should start Listen to us instead of making changes WITHOUT "discussing" with us.
the easy solution that we been asking FOR MONTHS, is to put everything into a moving crate and put on the owners bank and charge him a fee to retrieve when he comes back. HOW hard is that?
We been asking for Months and Months and instead you destroy 80% of all the items, Vet rewards, most deeds and than tell us that we cant have them because we didnt earn them???? well, the OWNER DID, so GIVE back to the owner, put everything back into his bank, so when he return he can have back, since he EARNED.  LISTEN TO US.