Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Phase I *Bugs, Loot, and Guardian Mob Distribution Only*
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Comments
This also allows for new items that are coming *spoiler alert* that will give minor boosts to cartography skill that will increase your chances of having a better quality chest.
As for luck, it has a precedent in determining budget that is used to generate magic equipment. We would logically expand that into the magic equipment generation here, which is what we plan to do.
Will the loot within the chests be more honed towards the professions on the chest? Right now the RNG ( I use RNGhere, as I do not know what the correct terminology is for the property assignment) is just assigning random properties at will. Are there any thoughts or plans for the loot to be more aligned property wise to the chest type? is this even possible with the current loot table and property assignment systems?
I just dug up 6 horde chests with GM cartography and a 21% cartography talisman, partied with one other character. Four of those chests were rusty, one was metal, and one was gold. The details are on the tab called "Randomly Generated Equipment" in this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17SHMAEYnwRJ1o6e_16ov9JKue0DnHi1FzHnxOt-bI8g/edit?usp=sharing ; .
I'm so frustrated right now trying to understand why this is better than what we have currently. I like the resources on the Stash level chests, especially being able to get ML ingredients, as I never get an opportunity to do peerless. But other than that, this does not seem like any kind of improvement over what we already have. I've been using a character with GM cartography and a talisman and you've said luck isn't a factor yet. But everything in the way of the random equipment is pretty much junk and the "extras" rarely spawn. It's nothing but a waste of time unless you're sitting on a pile of low-end maps and only want to quickly gather some gold.
@The_Higgs_1 I would agree with that if there was a worthwhile investment on the front side to warrant the highest end loot on the backside. What you are asking for would require a substantial uptick in the guardian difficulty (people already solo up to a level 3 easily, 4-7s require a bit more effort, but also soloable). I'm not keen on increasing guardian difficulty. Also consider that there are literally hundreds of thousands of maps people are sitting on. They aren't all that difficult to get so some variation in the overall results is required to keep the gameworld in balance.
Also, I've yet to see in the Supply chests any of the legacy minor artifacts. I've done 89 Supply chests and have only gotten 8 of the Publish 67 items (6 surge shields, 2 forged pardons, and 2 runed sashes). Are the legacy minor artifacts turned off or is the chance to get them just really, really small? Do the legacy minor artifacts include any of the ones from the Treasures of Tokuno events that could be turned in to get a major artifact?
Are there any plans to add imbuing ingredients or ML ingredients or something similar to non-Artisan/non-Ranger Stash-level chests dug up in facets other than Malas or Ter Mur?
We will be seeing more antique and heavy artifacts than we see Brittle.
Killing most high HP mobs over and over will give better loot than this. And those need an upgrade.
I toss Artifacts in the trash after every hunt. There are too many properties to get a good roll on a weapon or armor per 100 finds.
Do you realize how many brittle Legendary Artifacts you have to find to get one that is a keeper? There does not seem to be a chance at any good armor or weapons from these chests right now.
Chests should generate different each party member. You should be guaranteed 4 Artifacts in each Horde level. 6 in each trove.
- Minor Magic Item
- Lesser Magic Item
- Greater Magic Item
- Major Magic Item
- Lesser Artifact
- Greater Artifact
- Major Artifact
- Legendary Artifact
There are 4 levels of artifacts. Throw in weight, the many properties that could appear and antique. The chances of getting something useful is slim. All the Antique Prized drops in Khaldun were useless because they have mismatched properties.The average loot that I have seen so far is in the greater/major magic. Ex: 4 lesser magic 3 greater magic 1 major magic
Trove chests should be averaging Greater Artifact. You are adding Fel, remove trap, cartog bonus, Luck Suits and party requirements.
Trove should be getting 1 brittle Legendary, 6 Major Artifacts, 8 Greater Artifacts, 6 Lesser Artifact.
At the highest level as determined by You. That can be the Fel Golden Trove chests.
Iv'e seen an attempt to generate Studded Dex armor in the Ranger Chests. This is GREAT!
You put a lot of thought and work into this. It could be great if the loot is a higher level average.
Personally adding Luck to this will make it so that I will never open a chest.
A chance at a 10 SSI ring alone or with another property would be awesome. Chance at 18 SDI alone.
Even a ring with just FC can be used.
@Margrette - I think there's something related to loot packages where spell channeling only shows up on wands. Not sure off the top of my head though. This is something we will have to look into. The chest getting stuck issue is something we are looking into. I've had it happen to me a few times in testing. But we need more details on how to reproduce it 100% of the time. Please reply with exactly what you were doing to get this to occur so we can squash it.
Regarding all of the loot talk, the original premise as it was explained in the previous thread was (I am paraphasing here) the goal is quality over quantity. The reason everyone is screaming foul right now is that currently this is most definitely not the case. I know this has been hashed a lot but to be very clear:
Before we could, and many of us did run piles and piles of level 1-3 for SoAs. Even with some poor luck you could do 10-15 of these an hour and get 2-3 SoAs per hour.
I personally never bothered with 4 and 5 as the time to benefit was not on my side. Someone else will need to fill this in.
With the 6s and 7s We were guaranteed a fair amount of lesser and greater Artifacts. usually on the order of 10 conservatively. In fel, roughly 50% of 6s had at least 1 Major artifact and probably 20% had a legendary. The numbers for 7s I would guess scaled up pretty linearly. I don't know as I didn't run huge piles of those. Also in fel chests we ALWAYS got an SoT and OFTEN got SoAs. Then there are sashes, refinements, orbs, prdons, I could go on here.
This isn't a "clean legendary" pipe dream. You can run these on production right now and see those numbers jive pretty decently ( I run a 2300 luck suit on dig time).
I understand that the loot passes will take time to get right. I understand you can only act on the feedback at a certain speed. What the dev team has to understand in reading this forum is this is a HUGE shell shock to mappers. The amount of maps that people are sitting on has not changed drastically in the last week. The mappers were still going to get EVERYTHING that was in the current production version in time. This rollout was supposed to be an improvement but it seems like whoever populated the higher level chests had never actually run them in production. I know that might sound unfair, and it may be untrue, but it definitely SEEMS that way as a layman looking at iteration 1 of the chest loot.
I have no doubt all of this is going to be fixed and the new system is going to be an exciting time. I just ask when you read the feedback you understand where the base is coming from when they are adding a bunch of *&^#*@ in sentences. There is, at least for me, a bit of shock and confusion. Some will articulate that better than others. I tend to resort to the best unicode has to offer. <span>
I was under the impression that Luck was not on TC since you have mentioned adding it.
Our old EM used to do monthly events that included Treasure hunting so we could get the new pets. He placed the items in bags on the ground. I have seen the items in the top 2 current levels of T Chests many times. I do the Zippy maps for the quest item. I have unraveled thousands of points from T Chests and Shipwreck Treasure Chests.
There are very few level 6 and 7 maps on nightly players on LS because we gave them to the EM for those events along with white nets.
I play with players that wear luck suits that do not check bodies and when they go public I see they get the same loot that I get. Most wear Luck hoping to get the Pack drop from bosses. They do not even check the boss corpse because they know nothing good is ever there. Even with their high luck suit.
If you think this Loot is what you intended then there is nothing I can do about it. Ill keep using crafted weapons and do content that gives better drops than what I have seen in these T chests.
I was hoping to participate in Forgotten Treasures. So far this is not Treasure hunting upgrade IMO.
It seems many others that have done many Chests on TC do not feel the loot has been upgraded.
You ask us to be specific with what we want for loot. I was, I gave you numbers of the level of loot that I feel should drop in the Chests you deem the best.
I told you in the other thread and showed you pictures of what I can craft. I'm not asking for the best of the best I'm just asking for a chance to get a better item than I can craft.
I get that RNG is a fact of life, but I do not like it. 99% of the time, RNG = grind. I feel ZERO joy in grind. That rare, tiny thrill of "YES, finally!!" simply does not offset the constant "Noooooooo, not again!" for me. I prefer to invest my time in doing something I know will give me a good return, and my targeted in-game activities center around avoiding or at least limiting RNG. So please understand that I have developed an acute awareness of what is and what is not RNG in UO, and please understand where I am coming from with my following observations:
Zippy maps are a guaranteed way to get a specific level of map, specifically in Tram (in my case on Siege, Fel), but the following screencap applies to all chests of this level and higher.
The contents of a Zippy Adept chest:
While the code might be RNG for generating items, I am convinced that it does so in a specific order. In EC, I can see that every single chest has these items at the top, and NEVER fails to have something in that category. Ever. The Zippy item is ALWAYS at the bottom, and therefore I believe the code tosses it in at the end for the quest regardless of the otherwise "fullness" of the chest. Level 6&7 Maps ALWAYS have the green bag containing an artifact at the bottom, and so I believe it ALWAYS tosses that in at the end also, regardless of whatever else is in the chest. These items therefor are not true RNG. These things are currently guaranteed, but are pure RNG with the new system. I choose these maps because, no matter what, my time invested has at least a certain amount of guaranteed reward.
This is the reward for 5 Zippy (adept) quest maps currently on live shards:
The new system has better gold and gems, plus the cute bag holding them, which are guaranteed loot. The rest, however, has been changed to RNG. I am sure that I am not the only one to notice this and find it to be a frustrating change that does NOT count as an upgrade in loot.
This new system adds a small chance at orbs at lower level maps, and that makes me happy. Being able to target specific profession packages is also nice, and I do really like the new items. But the added levels of RNG chest quality as well as the increased RNG of the ''special'' items make me sad. Your statement reads to me that it was perhaps always intended to be this way, but the fact is that it was not. If this is the way it will be, then so be it. Overall, I do like the revamp.
I don't know alll of the details about how the loot has been redistributed among levels and facets and profession packages. What I have seen first hand tho, and from reading on forums, is that it IS more RNG, and nobody likes RNG.
No chance for good loot right now. But it was said the loot bump was coming, and also said that we were gonna have to deal with RT in the future. I have this gut wrenching feeling that this will boil down to old school gets the loot you see now, and if youo want the upgraded loot you will have to use RT.
So I will go ahead and risk doing my maps now, as I have absolutely 000.00 to the 3rd power intentions of training RT.
G'luck, my friends
Originally I was thinking of a Bard chest as well, but I think Kyronix is correct, there just isn't enough to put in it at this time. If we did just a Bard chest, what would go in it? Instruments obviously, but then what? Mana regen orbs maybe, some mana regen gear... there really is not much that is Bard specific.
We could add stuff, like Ice/Acid/Lightning horns to match the existing Fire Horns, but unless you put uses on the horns, you'd get them after a few chests and be done. And now we're into making new loot, which might be beyond the scope of the current publish. Better to merge Bards with something (say Rangers, both groups wander around the landscape right?) then to have a specific chest.
Trust me, I like the idea of a Bard chest. For me, clearly you, and maybe 5% of the player base that would be a fun interesting little addition. But for 95% of the player base those chests would be worthless trash and there would be endless bitter complaints.
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The new system has all that loot, except MiB's. It's just divided up differently. Instead of finding it all in one chest, you can now hunt for it in specific areas. Which reduces RNG, because you're only getting the thing you're hunting for. I can't tell you how many times I've opened a chest hoping for an essence and got a tasty treat. I will be happy to see tasty treats relegated to Rangers. (Ranger maps for sale! 1 DOLLAR!)
I understand you're saying all this used to be in one chest, every time, and now it is divided up and we have to go to different profession chests for it. Hopefully new things will be added and drop rates increased so that each of the new profession chests will be just as worthwhile as the older "all in one" chests. And hopefully the whole system will be easier to develop so we can see more additions to the professions over time.
Anyway, as a result of all this some chests do currently seem empty, but that's hopefully where the new stuff they are planning (and a few drop rate increases) will fill things out a bit. Overall it looks like we'll end up with more than we currently have, we just have to wait for it to get fleshed out.
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The Essences are currently in Malas, which should be Ter Mur (I think!).
MiB's are gone. (Unless someone has found some?)
Creeping Vines...these I honestly don't know about.
Tasty Treats are in Ranger Supply.
Recipe are in Artisan Supply.
Refinements in Artisan Stash. And a lot more of them.
Tmaps in both Stash and Supply, all profs.
Reagents in Mage Stash.
Necro reagents in Mage Stash Malas.
Gems in at least Stash, Supply, Cache. And in significant quantities.
Zippy stuff...probably in Eodon.
Gold in at least Stash, Supply, Cache.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on the chests feeling empty at the moment. That is, I think, an affect of adjusting to a theme based loot system where not everything is in one grab bag chest. However, it will be fun to hunt for just specific things. And trading maps will be fun. Hopefully the next iteration of loot fills a lot of the open space.
Don't panic!
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Special Crafting Materials (Assassin, Warrior & Barbarian, Stash)