An opinion on the bamboo fix.

TanagerTanager Posts: 634
edited March 2019 in General Discussions
Just adding my 2 cents, which has the same value. I feel a need to express myself, but I am not interested in arguing about it. What is done, is done.

The bamboo tiles were a very old glitch, just like steps loading items without stepping into the house. I am pretty sure ''breaking'' staircases in build mode with teletiles is also a glitch. ''Breaking'' deeded items with goza mats is also most likely a glitch. Breedable hops and other peculiar seeds - also a glitch. Some glitches have been allowed to remain because many people enjoyed their happy serendipity.

UO has overland housing, which is visible to anyone who passes by. Even from the very beginning, deco and marketing in UO has been a kind of art form. The bamboo tiles allowed people to create - and display - all kinds of art and services. Not all art is appreciated by all people. I personally do not enjoy glacial borg cubes, but that is just my preference, and there is no way I can avoid seeing it. I am also not a fan of Picasso, but I don't feel a need to insult his art.

This fix has destroyed many works of art (for better or for worse) and removed advertising for useful things like auction safes and transport items. People do not like their art and businesses destroyed, and so there are a lot of unhappy people.

Furthermore, there was no Dev discussion on the matter. There were no efforts to make a settings option for people who either do not like the results or have a computer that lags out. Nothing. Many people have found this lack of consideration to be utterly offensive.

I play in EC, and I never had any issues with lag as a result of deco. I can run past a cluster of castles and get lagged - but that is another problem entirely and has nothing to do with bamboo tiles because those houses do not have them. So imo those people who suffer from lag are running UO on a PC that has insufficient RAM, CPU, or video card, or some combination of the three. This game has grown, and its base requirements have grown also.

It is unfortunate, in my opinion, that a long standing glitch that caused many people joy has been obliterated. I have seen some truly stunning works of perspective ''between'' or ''above'' player houses that added vibrancy to the landscape.

I will miss them.
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Comments

  • xxxVideoxxxVideo Posts: 59
    i7, gf 1080  and i lag near those houses. its not a pc problem its a client problem.
    im super happy with this fix.

  • LeonidasLeonidas Posts: 30
    I7, 32gb ram, fiber net and i use CC and I dont lag at all, now you have your opinion and I have my and I dont like the change, so what now?? Bc no one asked US the paid customers if we would be happy with
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    So you ASSUME that all the player base didn't want this changed, I myself do not have this problem but if it is affecting others and their game play then it needed to be looked into.  You also need to understand that this is not a US game only and we do not know what the other half of UO thinks.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    edited March 2019
    Bilbo said:
    So you ASSUME that all the player base didn't want this changed, I myself do not have this problem but if it is affecting others and their game play then it needed to be looked into.  You also need to understand that this is not a US game only and we do not know what the other half of UO thinks.
    Ok: here is one thought from Italy after a stroll on ATL Luna, from a player that frequently plays on ATL, sometimes at USA peak times, using a normal ADSL line, on a 2017 iMac with Win10 under BootCamp, and without any lag worth mentioning:

    "Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant."
                                                    Publius Cornelius Tacitus, "De Agricola"

    Feel free to use Google Translate or WP at your leisure.


  • The Mayor said NO ART! so all ARTISTIC CREATIONS WILL BE REMOVED!  thats my take...
    at anyrate.. i spent 5 bloody hours clicking stupid tiles just on two floors this morning and im not pleased. at least give us a tool to put all the tiles in the moving crate.. im seriously about to just destroy the house let it fall to the ground,  go buy another plot. just pixels right!  sigh... it was a beautiful creation...was....
    but hey i can move around in the world .005 seconds faster , and the world looks like crap now, the community is polarized even more and you took away our crayons!
    ~meow~ 
  • Ezekiel_ZaneEzekiel_Zane Posts: 326
    edited March 2019
    What is all this "it WAS a beautiful creation" crap.  IT STILL IS!  To you and to anyone else with the desire or need to step into your house.

    It may just look like an empty plot of bamboo to me but I'm fine with that.  If I want to see your house and all your stuff I'll go inside.
  • Nails_WarsteinNails_Warstein Posts: 83
    edited March 2019
    The fact is most people in this game who don't use bamboo tiles did not care either way about this bug, as is the case with most bugs UO has.  What few people that truly did not like the bug, many of them didn't even care to report it.  It was tolerable to most.  How do I know this, because this bug could have been fixed years ago.  Not enough complained to make it go away.

    However those few who did report it, particularly those who are jealous or have a personal grudge against players who employed this bug to (as the original poster put it) provide services, and therefore would email @Mesanna from multiple email accounts as to make the appearance that a large number of people were against this bug, while the truth is most didn't care either way.  Only until recently since the inception of Auction Safes has Auction Safes threatened other people's vendor shops who don't employ this bug.  This threat to their UO profits is why Mesanna was fraught with an onslaught of complaints.  Despite the fact most people who employed the bug for the purpose of displaying their ART have become collateral damage in a war over greed.  Plain and simple.

    On another note, many who employed this bug didn't actually understand this to be a bug.  I know I didn't.  I just believed the bamboo was the default tile that allowed you to load your house publicly as the original poster eloquently stated to show off their works of art. Its an ugly tile to use for any other purpose, so it makes total sense to those who are ignorant that this was its intended use in the game.  

    I didn't even bother with the bamboo until Auction Safes came out.  For the longest time I just had a silent auction house I was happy with.  However the invention of the auction safe changed the game, and to keep up with the times, I redesigned a house for this purpose, and my house was NOT overloaded with items, it didn't block anyone, it was just for Auction Safes.  Now no one can see that I have them.  What's the point of having Auction Safes if you can't even see them?
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    edited March 2019
    ^^^^^  THIS!

    Well said, Nails! :)
  • Ezekiel_ZaneEzekiel_Zane Posts: 326
    edited March 2019
    The fact is most people in this game who don't use bamboo tiles did not care either way about this bug, as is the case with most bugs UO has.  What few people that truly did not like the bug, many of them didn't even care to report it.  It was tolerable to most.  How do I know this, because this bug could have been fixed years ago.  Not enough complained to make it go away.
    None of us knows exactly what the masses think or want because most UO players don't even post on these forums or on Stratics.

    This bug was tolerable and wasn't complained about en masse earlier, because it wasn't as widely abused as it had become.  Just walking around Luna shows how many players and houses were now using this bug.

    However those few who did report it, particularly those who are jealous or have a personal grudge against players who employed this bug to (as the original poster put it) provide services, and therefore would email @ Mesanna from multiple email accounts as to make the appearance that a large number of people were against this bug, while the truth is most didn't care either way.  Only until recently since the inception of Auction Safes has Auction Safes threatened other people's vendor shops who don't employ this bug.  This threat to their UO profits is why Mesanna was fraught with an onslaught of complaints.  Despite the fact most people who employed the bug for the purpose of displaying their ART have become collateral damage in a war over greed.  Plain and simple.
    Nobody is jealous over anyone's stupid Luna house.  Luna hasn't been super relevant since Vendor Search was implemented.  LMAO.  You're right about the auction safes.  Their introduction did indeed exacerbate and greatly increase the exploitation of this bug.  

    UO profits?  Give me a break.  Art?  Sure, about as much as a Walmart is. Please.

    I didn't even bother with the bamboo until Auction Safes came out.  For the longest time I just had a silent auction house I was happy with.  However the invention of the auction safe changed the game, and to keep up with the times, I redesigned a house for this purpose, and my house was NOT overloaded with items, it didn't block anyone, it was just for Auction Safes.  Now no one can see that I have them.  What's the point of having Auction Safes if you can't even see them?
    All anyone has to do to see auction safes is to go inside the house.  It is not complicated at all and there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from advertising their house just like vendors have done in UO for years.

    Without a doubt auction safes need to be implemented into Vendor Search but that's another issue entirely so maybe all you angry auction safe users should be asking for that.

    As for the granite, it was intended for keep and castle owners to moderately customize their homes.  Unfortunately the devs allowed them to be dyed and used in custom houses and so many players took it too far, creating hideous purple and neon green and solid black, disgusting looking structures.  I'm happy they're gone, or at least I don't have to see them.
  • I wasn't saying anyone was jealous of me personally or had any grudge against me personally, I was citing an example I am very well aware of.  

    Zeke I have no quarrel with you.  I am sure you are a wonderful person.  I barely have time to play this game with 3 little boys.  I am expressing an opinion.  There is no need to personalize this argument against me, please stop doing it.  

    I wish you well, and I am glad you are happy by the change.  I am sure you were suffering terribly by it all.  Enjoy the peace you now have from all these house designs.
  • Give me a few moments... I after to go through all the responses from the Dev Team on this....
    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Ivenor said:
    Bilbo said:
    So you ASSUME that all the player base didn't want this changed, I myself do not have this problem but if it is affecting others and their game play then it needed to be looked into.  You also need to understand that this is not a US game only and we do not know what the other half of UO thinks.
    Ok: here is one thought from Italy after a stroll on ATL Luna, from a player that frequently plays on ATL, sometimes at USA peak times, using a normal ADSL line, on a 2017 iMac with Win10 under BootCamp, and without any lag worth mentioning:

    "Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant."
                                                    Publius Cornelius Tacitus, "De Agricola"

    Feel free to use Google Translate or WP at your leisure.


    So supposedly according to you one person out of all the UO players said, you do understand that by repeating what someone says is considered hearsay and the person saying it is more than welcome to make an account and say it first hand.
  • usernameusername Posts: 138
    Tanager said:

    This fix has destroyed many works of art (for better or for worse) and removed advertising for useful things like auction safes and transport items. People do not like their art and businesses destroyed, and so there are a lot of unhappy people.
    ... but it hasn't destroyed anything. Everything that was there before the bug fix is still there. 

    /end
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over 1 year and counting.
    Vendor search rendered useless after Publish 106 – Forsaken Foes on August 14, 2019.
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,242
    edited March 2019

    When I did a walk through of Luna today the extravagant houses are still there.  You just need to walk up a step and see all of the gaudiness in its full gaudy glory.

    I agree they should have made this a configurable option under display options. 

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    Bilbo said:
    Ivenor said:
    Bilbo said:
    So you ASSUME that all the player base didn't want this changed, I myself do not have this problem but if it is affecting others and their game play then it needed to be looked into.  You also need to understand that this is not a US game only and we do not know what the other half of UO thinks.
    Ok: here is one thought from Italy after a stroll on ATL Luna, from a player that frequently plays on ATL, sometimes at USA peak times, using a normal ADSL line, on a 2017 iMac with Win10 under BootCamp, and without any lag worth mentioning:

    "Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant."
                                                    Publius Cornelius Tacitus, "De Agricola"

    Feel free to use Google Translate or WP at your leisure.


    So supposedly according to you one person out of all the UO players said, you do understand that by repeating what someone says is considered hearsay and the person saying it is more than welcome to make an account and say it first hand.
    Are you serious??? :o

    Ah, now I see my error: I quoted Tacitus writing of myself in the Third Person as Gaius Iulius Caesar used to do in the "De Bello Gallico".

    I understand that this conflict of styles could be burdensome to decipher: my deepest apologies!!! :D

    I.

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    TimSt said:

    (...)

    I agree they should have made this a configurable option under display options. 

    And THIS is the wisest observation! 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 874

    My opinion, is I have no idea what any of you are talking about...


    I've never seen a bamboo decorated house on Atlantic, Europa, or Siege, never noticed it, have no idea what they looked like before, and have no idea what they look like now.


    Just shows how diverse UO is, I play 90% of the game content, but I don't do housing or deco, no interest in this - I just want to sell my Felucca castle, for a 3 storey borg cube, that I can design with space, the ability to walk practically between the practical things I want to use, with a certain theme on each of the 3 floors. I have no interest in anyone else seeing it, I just want a practical space to use. Only thing stopping me, is I have no idea about houses, I wouldn't know how to even get myself a borg cube. :(

    I'd like my crafting stations and storage on the ground floor, a library on the second floor including all my bod books, and a roof garden, including all gatherable tree's and items on the roof... A large square space, that allows me to fit it all in, and walk between it all. And yeah, if that could look nice as well, fair enough, I'm a minimalist tidy freak though.



  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    I like how Tenager feels their opinion is so important it requires a whole knew thread, and isn't worthy of being placed into the other 2 open threads on this topic on the front page.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TanagerTanager Posts: 634
    At the time of my post, there was one thread reporting that the bamboo fix was incomplete. I did not read it. There was another thread with a rather negative vibe to the title, and I did not feel compelled to read it either. I was already upset enough. I prefer not to make comments in threads I have not read. I apologize if my massive ego in creating my own conversation is offensive to anyone.

    This ''fix'' was for the sake of people complaining about lag. I never had any. Lag still exists, and it exists in the same places as before. There are many reasons why a player might choose to have a private house but still enjoy adding artful creations to their community. Discussing the change is pointless, it will not be reverted. I just needed to vent in a format where I felt I might be heard.

    Sorry to have wasted anyone's time.
  • Uriah_HeepUriah_Heep Posts: 915
    LOL

    Mervyn...bless his heart.

    Yeah, as long as this went on,  there is one thing it makes me think of.  And that is that it was never a problem to worry about until one or two special people complained about it, and then became a top priority item.  I have become convinced, over the last few years, its not how many have ideas, it's who has ideas.  

    Meanwhile the lag goes on, even with the fix...
  • LeonidasLeonidas Posts: 30
    You got right @Uriah_Heep
    They managed to piss everybody bc of 2 or 3 tht had grudges against each other and now we all paid for... and for those with EC crap computer, what else you want the devs to kill?? Events?? Since you already bitch that so many people attend to them and ur crap computer cant handle.
    maybe we can suggest them to kill Felucca , bc you are getting killed, since is all about you...

    Btw , bc of people like you is that many of us are closing lot of accounts....
  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,724Moderator
    While I realise this is a hot topic, and many people are upset, can we please keep in mind the board's number one rule that other posters are treated with respect?
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Please enlighten us on these 2-3 SPECIAL people that you all are blaming for this.
  • TanagerTanager Posts: 634
    edited March 2019
    Also... just for the record... the vast majority of my dissatisfaction with this fix is the lack of consideration. Yes, it has always been a bug. The devs are fixing bugs. This particular bug, however, had existed for a long time and had become ingrained in the art culture of the community. With a bit more effort involved, the team could have found a way to make the loading of houses an option in settings. Or at the very least explained why not. The EC client, for example, has the ability to ignore the loading of individual items. Did anyone even try to use this to prevent granite walls from showing to them?

    The destruction of town memorials combined with this current change has left me with a very unpleasant taste in my mouth and a dwindling desire to invest in the game's future. No discussion, no explanations. Just a great big hammer.
  • usernameusername Posts: 138
    Tanager said:
    Also... just for the record... the vast majority of my dissatisfaction with this fix is the lack of consideration. Yes, it has always been a bug. The devs are fixing bugs. This particular bug, however, had existed for a long time and had become ingrained in the art culture of the community. 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

    Once again, since you conveniently ignored my previous post, and likely this one too, I will state again: nothing has been destroyed. Any town memorial, building or decoration is still there as it was before the bug fix. If you want to view the house and the decoration you are going to step in to the house anyways. What's the big deal?
    Make this your signature if you are tired of Vendor Search being broken, over 1 year and counting.
    Vendor search rendered useless after Publish 106 – Forsaken Foes on August 14, 2019.
  • Ezekiel_ZaneEzekiel_Zane Posts: 326
    edited March 2019
    Who are these 2-3 people that have so much influence over Mesanna and the devs?  I'd like to become friends with them.

    There's probably not 20,000 players left.  Of that who posts regularly here or on Stratics? One hundred?  Two hundred.  Seems like quite a bit less that that to me.

    Now how many players complained via email or by paging a GM?  By filling out a bug report?  Nobody except the devs knows that.
  • TanagerTanager Posts: 634
    edited March 2019
    I did read it. My response, without naming you specifically, was that many houses are PRIVATE. You cannot walk into them. It would appear that you do not understand why artists are upset over the issue. For me, as I stated, it is not about not being able to force my deco onto others. It is about the utter lack of regard to a very large chunk of the community. My objection is not to the change itself, but the manner in which it was done.

    I am done with this topic. Please accept your win of this ''fix'' with graciousness.
  • LynkLynk Posts: 165
    Good riddance ugly slow loading houses.

    Signed,
    Every fel player on Atlantic
  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 392
    Hmm, "Private" home but still be able to show off your stuff to the public.  Is this the twilight zone, am I missing something?!  Noone came to me when they fixed the roof bugs or the vendor trick years back.  Maybe I should whine about closing my account to retro fix it too.   LOL.   The greedy people who make rl cash off this game are mad now, so when they quit more money will flow back into the game making the game actually better.  So I say have a nice goodbye.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    edited March 2019

    Tanager said:
    (...)
    Please accept your win of this ''fix'' with graciousness.
    Thre is NO win for ANYBODY, because, as a consequence of this "fix" A LOT of Paying Accounts will be closed.

    My two GPs are on the fact that on this issue in short time the Devs will came back on their steps in some form or another.

    PS: We are STILL waiting to hear a peep from Mesanna or some Dev on WHY they have been so inconsiderate of the hundreds of hours of loving work from so many people.

    Ah, BTW: It is interesting to note that of ALL the people happy with this "fix", NO ONE of them is in Deco or "pro" Vendors, but they are ALL of the "kill everything that moves" persuasion.
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