Recovering Power Scrolls from pets

Margrette

I've never seen 105 power scrolls drop at non-Fel champ spawns.

Tim

MissE said:

@ Kyronix how about putting 'pet only' power scrolls in the Illshenar, Malas & Tokuno spawns? Makes them more accessible for players who don't PVP, keeps a 'consumable' item in the game, would increase game content for non pvp templates, and frankly the majority of tamers are NOT into pvp.  Would give players a reason to actually do these spawns and team up. Would not harm the powerscroll market for the pvp'ers who frankly have a monopoly on all scrolls so right now the minority has a huge monopoly over the majority.  

I loved that tokuno sleeping dragon spawn but the only time that spawn rocks is when treasures of tokuno runs as otherwise it is not worth doing.  Ditto for the labyrinth, weald and bedlam spawns.

Or is the dev team just interested in keeping the gold generated from these scrolls in the hands of  the few.  Pet ONLY scrolls in the above would solve your reasoning re not letting the pets have recoverable scrolls.

I agree and would add shard linked to the above or in place of pet only. 
This would make scrolls available on low population shards without raising the howls of protest from pvp crowd. 
Last time I checked vendor search on Pac there were only 5 power scrolls of any type for sale.
If they could be shard limit the pet/player after use (with proper warnings) even better.

I really hate being "forced" to play pvp

KHAN

In reference to my original post, after seeing some of the comments, and discussing it with guild mates, this idea came up. How about making the scrolls available on the corpse, BUT, making the ones "recovered" "for pets only", or something to that effect. That would seem to be a way to keep the "regular" ones hold most of their value, AND allow tamers to use scrolls on pets without having to worry, as much, about any possible "nerfs" or "changes" that happen AFTER using scrolls on them that might render the pets unusable. One example is that I, and others, have pets that we tamed, trained, and used 110/115/120 power scrolls on before the consume damage "nerf" that in retrospect we would have put more hit points on, and used less points in other places, had we of known of the change. Those pets aren't viable now, and are stuck in the stables, just eating and getting fat. Just a thought. Any thoughts @Kyronix

MissE

No my solution to the OP's original request was to add PET ONLY  power scrolls (all levels) to those spawns in Ilsh, Malas and Tokuno to make them worth doing and not affect the power scrolls for players.  Smoot was the one that said 105's were available in them already, I disagree, never seen one.  

The argument that allowing players to reclaim  pet scrolls would destroy the consumable nature of them by @Kyronix "It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable."  would be satisfied, although it probably should of said "we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable in the hands of a few".

The majority of tamers do NOT pvp are not interested in doing fel spawns and just want powerscrolls for their pets for pvm.  Adding Pet ONLY Scrolls  to the other spawns would satisfy tamers and does not affect the Character power scroll market.  You could add Pet ONLY Scrolls to the fel spawns as well so that pvp'ers could still get if they didn't want to do the non fel spawns. There are so many pets in game that need scrolls that the majority of players do NOT have any hope in hell of getting what they need at the current drop rate and the fact that those that are in game are controlled by the few. 

There was really no reason to make it that power scrolls used for players had to be the same ones for pets, it would have made much more sense to include the majority by adding pet scrolls into all spawns on all facets and useable only by pets.  It would of greatly improved player content to have a reason to do those spawns and added a fantastic dimension to the game as a whole. 

However it seems that the devs persistent attempts to drive players to fel seems to dominate again and again for the minority. 

Perhaps a rethink could be done and the system changed. Perhaps the devs didn't think of how hard it was gonna be to scroll pets under this current system.  I have about 20 pets that need scrolls, only TWO of em have 120 wrestle/tactics, none are fully scrolled.  That bloody training gump will be popping up on my screen for the next 20 years at this rate as yet another thing that was 'fixed' didn't actually get fixed as you can't get rid of it unless  you have finished training your pet which you can't do until you get the scrolls.

I seriously hope and pray that the idea of pet scrolls can be looked at. The current system is a total fail.

Zapp

@MissE

Wow, great ideas and thoughts thinks I. 


Side note: I pretty much only use my dragon turtle as my combat pet. It is, or at least I guess used to be considered, a good one, so I never did really look into the whole pet training thing. 

Soooo.... let me get this straight.... pets need power scrolls now????!??!!???
What????!!!!?!???!!!!! 
LOL
(yeah wow, I guess just another way to get the money into the hands of the few hehe)
I guess I really need to do some good research on this!

p.s.
Could you point me in the right direction to get good information on this??

Thanks!

Mariah

Zapp said:

p.s.
Could you point me in the right direction to get good information on this??

Thanks!

https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/animal-taming/animal-training/

Merus

Adding my two cents here:

I see nothing wrong with leaving power scroll just as they are (used for players and pets and exclusively in Fel).

I think the OP comments really speak to the desire to be able to reset pets.  One school of thought would be to just tame a new pet and start over.

The other school of thought would say that many tamers have sentimental attachment to pets and would like to be able to re-do the training.

@Kyronix

Maybe there is some room here to compromise and allow a respec based on the current pet level points less the power scrolls already used?  Basically you would re-roll the pets base stats/resists/regens/special moves and leave skills and scrolls alone then multiply the current pet level by 1501 points and subtract the points already consumed by existing power scrolls.

Seems like this would be super similar to the process used to reset the exploited pets so not to hard to make it a single use token and drop it in the store?

Skett

Like it was pointed out so well on the that other place we spend time 

a mod said have pet power scrolls be different from player scrolls 

I would add have them in both facets tram and fel 

Promathia

Dot_Warner said:

The gold is hoarded, as evidenced by the need for platinum currency to allow the uber rich to continue hoarding past "physical" lockdown and vendor limits.

Uh...that's hardly the reason why Platinum was needed (The currency system is what resolved any issues of "lockdown" or limits, not platinum). The currency system made trades safe and instead of relying on a broker/pure trust, now it can all be handled safely directly from your account. Platinum simply makes the numbers smaller so you don't have to constantly deal with large numbers.

SwordofExcalibur

Promathia said:

Dot_Warner said:

The gold is hoarded, as evidenced by the need for platinum currency to allow the uber rich to continue hoarding past "physical" lockdown and vendor limits.

Uh...that's hardly the reason why Platinum was needed (The currency system is what resolved any issues of "lockdown" or limits, not platinum). The currency system made trades safe and instead of relying on a broker/pure trust, now it can all be handled safely directly from your account. Platinum simply makes the numbers smaller so you don't have to constantly deal with large numbers.

Read recently that trades are not safe in EC due to a bug that lets you change your trade amount in currency before clicking submit.

So, are you talking past tense as far as safe, or was that fixed?  (Last I read, Devs said it’s working as intended.  But please update me.)

Merlin

Smoot 

In short, i see no change needed. 

^^^^

I am with Smoot.

No changes are needed. 

Tyrath

  Just let the pet get reworked and the scrolls are not recovered but stay on the pet they were used on.  The problem is things were fixed that broke pets, mistakes were made building the pets and we end up with stables full of really expensive and useless pets.   So make a retrain option that takes the pet down to a base set of stats, deducts the points the scrolls on it cost from the retraining points and everyone is happy.  No scrolls are getting recovered and otherwise useless pets get to be viable.  

KHAN

Tyrath said:

  Just let the pet get reworked and the scrolls are not recovered but stay on the pet they were used on.  The problem is things were fixed that broke pets, mistakes were made building the pets and we end up with stables full of really expensive and useless pets.   So make a retrain option that takes the pet down to a base set of stats, deducts the points the scrolls on it cost from the retraining points and everyone is happy.  No scrolls are getting recovered and otherwise useless pets get to be viable.  

This, in my opinion, is a VERY viable solution. What about it @Kyronix @Bleak ;

Skett

KHAN said:

Tyrath said:

  Just let the pet get reworked and the scrolls are not recovered but stay on the pet they were used on.  The problem is things were fixed that broke pets, mistakes were made building the pets and we end up with stables full of really expensive and useless pets.   So make a retrain option that takes the pet down to a base set of stats, deducts the points the scrolls on it cost from the retraining points and everyone is happy.  No scrolls are getting recovered and otherwise useless pets get to be viable.  

This, in my opinion, is a VERY viable solution. What about it @ Kyronix @ Bleak 

i agree this at is at the very least needs happen 

KHAN

@Kyronix ???

Archnight

KHAN said:

Tyrath said:

  Just let the pet get reworked and the scrolls are not recovered but stay on the pet they were used on.  The problem is things were fixed that broke pets, mistakes were made building the pets and we end up with stables full of really expensive and useless pets.   So make a retrain option that takes the pet down to a base set of stats, deducts the points the scrolls on it cost from the retraining points and everyone is happy.  No scrolls are getting recovered and otherwise useless pets get to be viable.  

This, in my opinion, is a VERY viable solution. What about it @ Kyronix @ Bleak 

How so? Kyronix already replied with "in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable"... being able to retrain your pet using the same scrolls is no different than getting the scrolls back to retrain your pet. Only difference is that you can't resell the scrolls or use on a different pet, but it would still affect demand and they'd be less of a consumable in the end as most would just retrain instead of buying new scrolls for a new pet

Personally I don't see why most aren't training pets using 115 scrolls, they're so much cheaper and still make a killer pet. The extra 5 points on most of those scrolls barely offer an advantage if you factor in the cost difference, agreed it looks good having all 120's but 115's are still very decent in the end   

Keith???

KHAN

Archnight said:

KHAN said:

Tyrath said:

  Just let the pet get reworked and the scrolls are not recovered but stay on the pet they were used on.  The problem is things were fixed that broke pets, mistakes were made building the pets and we end up with stables full of really expensive and useless pets.   So make a retrain option that takes the pet down to a base set of stats, deducts the points the scrolls on it cost from the retraining points and everyone is happy.  No scrolls are getting recovered and otherwise useless pets get to be viable.  

This, in my opinion, is a VERY viable solution. What about it @ Kyronix @ Bleak 

How so? Kyronix already replied with "in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable"... being able to retrain your pet using the same scrolls is no different than getting the scrolls back to retrain your pet. Only difference is that you can't resell the scrolls or use on a different pet, but it would still affect demand and they'd be less of a consumable in the end as most would just retrain instead of buying new scrolls for a new pet

Personally I don't see why most aren't training pets using 115 scrolls, they're so much cheaper and still make a killer pet. The extra 5 points on most of those scrolls barely offer an advantage if you factor in the cost difference, agreed it looks good having all 120's but 115's are still very decent in the end   

Keith???

Obviously you missed the fact that it is a COMPLETELY different option than the one @Kyronix responded to.

Dukarlo

Just make scrolls shard bound. It's not the people farming the scrolls causing the prices to sky rocket. It's the resellers buying everything up on the small shards and moving them to Atlantic. Scrolls are heavily farmed on small shards but because everyone moves them to atl to sell the small shards have no scroll stocks. People would shop small shards to eat needed scrolls on characters and pets. I know a volume 3 taming primer can be had much cheaper on a small shard because it can't be moved to atl.

AQHF

Dukarlo said:

Just make scrolls shard bound. It's not the people farming the scrolls causing the prices to sky rocket. It's the resellers buying everything up on the small shards and moving them to Atlantic. Scrolls are heavily farmed on small shards but because everyone moves them to atl to sell the small shards have no scroll stocks. People would shop small shards to eat needed scrolls on characters and pets. I know a volume 3 taming primer can be had much cheaper on a small shard because it can't be moved to atl.

If Atlantic is sucking in the entire supply from all the shards, and the prices on Atlantic are still sky high, then I would say the problem is caused by way too little supply to meet demand, and trying to fix the problem by making scrolls shard bound in no way addresses the lack of supply. EJ is coming, too, and those characters can use scrolls but don't generate them either. I think we need a supply fix to keep up with demand. 

Lord_Nabin

I feel the system is fine how it is.

Part of the adventure and mystique of an open sandbox is obtaining what you desire.

You don't have to do everything yourself and many times you need a guild or community to help you out. If you need more power scrolls then get your guild or other community members together and go make it happen. It is all part of the grand adventure in Sosaria. 

When did it ever come to pass that you had to have every part of your character or beast maxed out in order to be successful or have a good time while adventuring. 

Even the lowest of the low, broken, penniless and weak can become an Avatar.... 

Bilbo

AQHF said:

Dukarlo said:

Just make scrolls shard bound. It's not the people farming the scrolls causing the prices to sky rocket. It's the resellers buying everything up on the small shards and moving them to Atlantic. Scrolls are heavily farmed on small shards but because everyone moves them to atl to sell the small shards have no scroll stocks. People would shop small shards to eat needed scrolls on characters and pets. I know a volume 3 taming primer can be had much cheaper on a small shard because it can't be moved to atl.

If Atlantic is sucking in the entire supply from all the shards, and the prices on Atlantic are still sky high, then I would say the problem is caused by way too little supply to meet demand, and trying to fix the problem by making scrolls shard bound in no way addresses the lack of supply. EJ is coming, too, and those characters can use scrolls but don't generate them either. I think we need a supply fix to keep up with demand. 

You will never fix the supply flow.  There are an X amount of players that do the Spawns on a regular basis and they will control the amount of PSs that hit the open market.  With EJ coming in I can see those accounts being used as fodder to beat down the PvMers that attempt to do spawns while the paid PvPers swoop in and kill everything left.

DJAd

If they add power scrolls to tram or make "pet only" scrolls drop in trammel I can imagine a few days after launch there will be threads popping up with people complaining about players camping the boss. Why would anyone need to do a spawn? People would just wait until the boss is up and then bring in a sampire or whatever to kill the champ.

With EJ just around the corner you would be able to have an EJ character at the spawn to watch the progress and then just bring in a main character near the end when the champ is almost up. It will be no different from events. People will complain about multi boxers etc etc. but rather than getting EM drops they will be getting the scrolls.

Eye

Whether tram or fel
Wouldn't be such a bad idea to implement a modified doom "like" system. 
To be eligible to receive power scrolls, one must gain enough points by killing pre-spawn before the champ pops.
It's logical and would force raiders to raid early on, giving a fighting chance to the individual/group who started the spawn.

Garth_Grey

They should be shard bound. People should just travel to a small shard and eat the scroll and go back home. The way it is now only benefits the wealthy vendor owners on Atl. Let them actually fight for their own scrolls the way small shards have to, but it won't happen, and we all know why.

Ivenor

Or the Power Scrolls can be made to be obtainable ONLY with Skill-related quests (as is today for Imbuing), and only ONE of each level (105, 110, 115, 120) can be had by a single Char (not repeatable Quests). Let the players choose after if use the PS on a Char, on a Pet, or sell it on the market, and limit Monsters Drops to SoT, maybe buffing up their number.
I.

Lord_Nabin

Or You can go into general chat on any given shard and let people know what you are looking for instead of just looking for it on a vendor. Having built out characters on many shards over the last year. I honestly never had a hard time getting what I needed through general chat when I didn't see it on a vendor. Sure you might have to wait a week but, I was usually working on another skill or something in the meantime. This really all seems like a lot of drama about nothing. 

KHAN

I think we are getting a little "off course". The topic is "RECOVERING Power scrolls from PETS. The whole discussion on power scrolls in general could fill this forum. LOL

MissE

DJAd said:

If they add power scrolls to tram or make "pet only" scrolls drop in trammel I can imagine a few days after launch there will be threads popping up with people complaining about players camping the boss. Why would anyone need to do a spawn? People would just wait until the boss is up and then bring in a sampire or whatever to kill the champ.

With EJ just around the corner you would be able to have an EJ character at the spawn to watch the progress and then just bring in a main character near the end when the champ is almost up. It will be no different from events. People will complain about multi boxers etc etc. but rather than getting EM drops they will be getting the scrolls.

@Kyronix No one has said put regular power scrolls in the non fel spawns, just create 'pet scrolls' that drop there and there is no reason that those spawns can't be coded to only drop scrolls to those players who are killing the spawn.  Make it that the boss only drops 2-3 scrolls and the rest all drop all during the spawn, so you could get a 120 doing level 2 or 3 of the spawn.  And if you haven't killed a good proportion of the level 1/2 spawn then you are not entitled to a drop from the boss at all. 

Pet only scrolls are NEEDED.  The current system is totally out of kilter and benefits only a few.  Pet scrolls should NEVER have been the same as power scrolls for players, it was a seriously poor design choice and a wasted opportunity to make the non fel spawns relevant and actually worth doing. 

Given that tamers can have 30 odd pets that may need scrolling and and at least 4-8 scrolls per pet, most of us still have that bloody annoying training gump popping up and will do so for the next 20 yrs unless something is done to improve pet scrolling rates.  The fix is simple, pet scrolls in non fel spawns. The fix for that training gump was NEVER a fix, not while the scrolling problem persists.

KHAN

Lord_Nabin said:

"This really all seems like a lot of drama about nothing." 

Thank you for caring enough about "nothing" to respond, not once, but twice.

Pawain

Lord_Nabin said:

Or You can go into general chat on any given shard and let people know what you are looking for instead of just looking for it on a vendor. Having built out characters on many shards over the last year. I honestly never had a hard time getting what I needed through general chat when I didn't see it on a vendor. Sure you might have to wait a week but, I was usually working on another skill or something in the meantime. This really all seems like a lot of drama about nothing. 

How many pets you built recently?  Ive done at least 80.  

Something has changed the power scroll market.