Recovering Power Scrolls from pets

How do you feel about this idea? If you have a pet that is "screwed up" (maybe from a pet revert, a change that makes the pet no longer viable, or even "operator error") you have the option of releasing the pet, and killing it. At death, THE POWER SCROLLS USED ON THE PET ARE ON THE CORPSE, and recoverable. Because let's face it, the scrolls aren't cheap. I am leery of using my 120's simply because there is no telling what may change (i.e. the consume damage "nerf", the changes to some of the specials on the pets, etc...) At this time I probably have 15 +/- (IMO) useless pets with 120's on them (through "changes" after the fact) I would LOVE to have a way to recover those scrolls. How about it?
If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
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Comments

  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    Any thoughts Devs? @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!
  • BubblegumBubblegum Posts: 41
    and congrats on that decision. I for one didn't like that idea, because now you're have players buying the "bad" pet just to kill them and selling the PS off at higher prices.. I always played a tamer and I care for my pets. Lets not just kill them for their hides and Tusks.  hehe..

    Wildfire

  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    Kyronix said:
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!
    Thanks for the reply!!! :) Not the answer I was hoping for of course LOL, and I'm not exactly sure what "major purchasing drivers" has to do with scrolls (already purchased/farmed)on no longer viable pets. But it was nice to see an extremely prompt response. Thanks again. 
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • KHAN said:

     I'm not exactly sure what "major purchasing drivers" has to do with scrolls (already purchased/farmed)on no longer viable pets.
    The UO economy suffers from not having [consumable] items. Once a power scroll is used it is gone. If you need another you have to get it yourself or buy it. Armor and weapons used to be [consumable] items until insurance came around. 

    * I know consumable is not the right word. The correct word is eluding me right now. 
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    edited March 2018
    Good comments from everybody! Thanks. *looks around for the "like" button* ;)
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • DrakelordDrakelord Posts: 1,432
    KHAN said:
    Good comments from everybody! Thanks. *looks around for the "like" button* ;)
    No you can't it, I got it now :P 
    Remove Trap = Bad News
    for
    Treasure Hunters
    Drakelord#5598
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 380
    Kyronix said:
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!

      The bigger problem is why the economy is suffering.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    Kyronix said:
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!


    Completely agree.

    Powerscrolls are a consumable, and one of the most effective consumables in the game and should stay that way.

  • SlayviteSlayvite Posts: 113
    Yes, we have to keep that economy on Atlantic flowing.....
  • Yeah.

    (On refurbished PS) No.
    Dennis the Peasant: "Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." 
    Arthur: "Be quiet!" 
    Dennis: "You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!” 
    Monty Python & the Holy Grail
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 380
    Slayvite said:
    Yes, we have to keep that economy on Atlantic flowing.....
    The needs of the few elite where all that gold cycles to outweighs the needs of the many.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,035
    edited March 2018
    KHAN said:

     I'm not exactly sure what "major purchasing drivers" has to do with scrolls (already purchased/farmed)on no longer viable pets.
    The UO economy suffers from not having [consumable] items. Once a power scroll is used it is gone. If you need another you have to get it yourself or buy it. Armor and weapons used to be [consumable] items until insurance came around. 

    * I know consumable is not the right word. The correct word is eluding me right now. 
    The right word you are searching for is, I believe,"commodified".

    And, again IMO, commodification it is one of the MAJOR problems today BITRW of the crony oligarchical world-wide liberistic late stage "capitalism" (a word that I believe even a doped-to-the-gills Ayn Rand herself would have had "some" difficulties in using to descirbe today hyper-financializated planetary joke of a global "economy"!), making us to live in a world where such "secondary" things as human time and, frequently, life (human and animal) itself are every day that pass more reduced at the same level of things, and on a massive scale never seen before in human history.

    But maybe, just maybe, this is a little out of context speaking of UO.

    Or, again, maybe not, considered the actual UO economical oligarchy of "big" inter-shard scripter-cheaters-specul... ehm, I beg your pardon, I mean ***ILLUMINATE TRADERS*** that has made a million UO gold have the concrete value of argent de poche... >:) ;)

  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,035
    Tyrath said:
    Slayvite said:
    Yes, we have to keep that economy on Atlantic flowing.....
    The needs of the few elite where all that gold cycles to outweighs the needs of the many.
    <3 <3 <3 :)
  • The_Higgs_1The_Higgs_1 Posts: 393
    I know what would drive the economy up, having more content to for more useful items.  Not only would it raise the economy it would also raise the playerbase.  There is tons of content in game already that just needs upgraded a little bit with new drops(i.e. ML Bosses).  Id also like to see them remove the old drops to doom except for the more useful items like the orny and put them on a NPC vendor like blackthorns.  That way if you go down there you have a chance of getting a newer drop versus wasting time to get like a tunic of fire which is useless. 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910

    Ivenor and Co - you are completely correct in your comments of course regarding the economy.

    1% owning 99% of the worlds wealth, points to a massive unfairness and broken down economy in both the real world and UO.

    UO is of course, just a hyper speeded up version of the real world economy, and the issue is, when something is valued more than another, yet both really have equal importance to a community, and take equal time to complete, the people performing the most efficient path come out on top, even though a less efficient path may have more importance to the community - cleaning out the public toilets for example. Wealth does always flow in one direction, and this is wrong.

    But - you cannot expect UO game developers, to solve real world economic issues that have plagued the world for 3,000 years - our best people still don't have a system, or even understand economics yet, all current models mostly developed around world war 2 are falling apart, and nothing new has been presented.

    And this entire conversation, is taking the issue of powerscrolls, to it's complete limit. Solve the world, to solve powerscroll economy, it cannot happen.


  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 1,035
    edited March 2018
    Cookie said:
    (...)

    UO is of course, just a hyper speeded up version of the real world economy, and the issue is, when something is valued more than another, yet both really have equal importance to a community, and take equal time to complete, ***the people performing the most efficient path*** come out on top, even though a less efficient path may have more importance to the community - cleaning out the public toilets for example. Wealth does always flow in one direction, and this is wrong.

    >>> IVENOR: When "efficency" , as in the case of some of the today UO "trade oligarchy", means systematic SCRIPT-CHEATING, e.g., at IDOC, IMO, this people deserve only total confiscation and permanent ban. >:)

    --- --- ---

    But - you cannot expect UO game developers, to solve real world economic issues that have plagued the world for 3,000 years - our best people still don't have a system, or even understand economics yet, all current models mostly developed around world war 2 are falling apart, and nothing new has been presented.

    >>> IVENOR: My rant was NOT directed toward UO devs or EM, that, I'm sure, make MOSTLY of the time (*COFF* clops *COFF*) the BEST they can do, when they can do it, and needing to keep maybe an eye on rents & bills ITMT, as many others of us mere mortals, but to the people that exploit a system. E.g., BITRW, when the Koch Bros. ("nomen omen", as the Romans said...) (in)famously said "I want my fair share, and it is ALL.", they should have been dragged screaming and kicking in fron of a military firing squad, darn!  :D

    --- --- ---

    And this entire conversation, is taking the issue of powerscrolls, to it's complete limit. Solve the world, to solve powerscroll economy, it cannot happen.


    >>>IVENOR. Totally agree, I'm not *so* naive... :)

    But to hopelessly rant is half the fun of a forum... o:)

    Cheers

    Ivenor


    BTW: apologyes fot the mess in the above formatting, but the forum editor is a little threadebare in functions, and my HTML a little rusty... :)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910

    Fair comments Ivenor, I like them.

    I'm the same when it comes to ranting. <3

  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    KHAN said:
    Good comments from everybody! Thanks. *looks around for the "like" button* ;)
    Did you ever find it?
    Kyronix said:
    Is there a LIKE button
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    Bilbo said:
    KHAN said:
    Good comments from everybody! Thanks. *looks around for the "like" button* ;)
    Did you ever find it?
    Kyronix said:
    Is there a LIKE button
    nope! LOL
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    KHAN said:
    Bilbo said:
    KHAN said:
    Good comments from everybody! Thanks. *looks around for the "like" button* ;)
    Did you ever find it?
    Kyronix said:
    Is there a LIKE button
    nope! LOL
    I lost mine too!
  • Dot_WarnerDot_Warner Posts: 233
    Kyronix said:
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!

    :(

    The economy suffers because there has been an unlimited, 24/7 gold spigot turned to full blast for the last 20+ years. Gold "cycles" very, very little - mainly through the same hands. The gold is hoarded, as evidenced by the need for platinum currency to allow the uber rich to continue hoarding past "physical" lockdown and vendor limits.

    Gold from power scrolls goes from buyer to another select few hands on each shard, or straight to Atlantic. This means people on smaller shards go to Atl to find the scrolls that are unavailable on there shard - simply further consolidating the wealth. 

    Since there are no real, viable gold sinks in UO, there is no way for that money to actually leave the system (barring direct dev intervention) so the amounts build, inflation occurs, causing new players look at prices and facepalm. Most player ideas for gold sinks have been completely ignored.
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 380
    Kyronix said:
    It's something we've talked about in the past, in the end we would rather keep the demand for powerscrolls high and keep them consumable.  Our economy suffers already, and powerscrolls are one of the few major purchasing drivers that we have to keep the gold cycling.  Thanks for the feedback though!

    :(

    The economy suffers because there has been an unlimited, 24/7 gold spigot turned to full blast for the last 20+ years. Gold "cycles" very, very little - mainly through the same hands. The gold is hoarded, as evidenced by the need for platinum currency to allow the uber rich to continue hoarding past "physical" lockdown and vendor limits.

    Gold from power scrolls goes from buyer to another select few hands on each shard, or straight to Atlantic. This means people on smaller shards go to Atl to find the scrolls that are unavailable on there shard - simply further consolidating the wealth. 

    Since there are no real, viable gold sinks in UO, there is no way for that money to actually leave the system (barring direct dev intervention) so the amounts build, inflation occurs, causing new players look at prices and facepalm. Most player ideas for gold sinks have been completely ignored.

      SO it is officially working as intended :)
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    @Kyronix how about putting 'pet only' power scrolls in the Illshenar, Malas & Tokuno spawns? Makes them more accessible for players who don't PVP, keeps a 'consumable' item in the game, would increase game content for non pvp templates, and frankly the majority of tamers are NOT into pvp.  Would give players a reason to actually do these spawns and team up. Would not harm the powerscroll market for the pvp'ers who frankly have a monopoly on all scrolls so right now the minority has a huge monopoly over the majority.  

    I loved that tokuno sleeping dragon spawn but the only time that spawn rocks is when treasures of tokuno runs as otherwise it is not worth doing.  Ditto for the labyrinth, weald and bedlam spawns.

    Or is the dev team just interested in keeping the gold generated from these scrolls in the hands of  the few.  Pet ONLY scrolls in the above would solve your reasoning re not letting the pets have recoverable scrolls.

    The other problem with the current system is  you can 'stop' the training gump from forever coming up.  You can only click on the stop training button once you have finished training the pet, the problem still exists as the majority of us can't get the scrolls to finish a pet off so instead of making it so that you could turn that gump of and on until such time as you finish scrolling the damn thing continues to be a huge pain in the butt, it wasn't just a problem with a few unused points it is aproblem of taking like a year or more til you get the scrolls you need per PET.  I still have not got ONE pet that is finished scrolling.  Put a button on that gump that keeps it still active but so you can turn it off til needed.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 309


    Since there are no real, viable gold sinks in UO, there is no way for that money to actually leave the system (barring direct dev intervention) so the amounts build, inflation occurs, causing new players look at prices and facepalm. Most player ideas for gold sinks have been completely ignored.
    vendors remove a vast amount of gold every day.  I dont run vendors like some of the big idocers and "merchant" types, but still have 10mil a day fees.  thats 300m a month 3.6 bil a year.  from just a few vendors.

    I really think gold is leaving the system at a much higher rate than its being created, but the population is much smaller too.  so we still have "inflation" becuase theres less players to spread that gold around.

    would gold - sinks hurt?  no.  ive always thought there could be more, but it also has little to do with prices.  with less gold, stuff just costs more. 

    High prices is a good thing.  it shows a demand and that people are still playing.  If the price is too high, a player has the option to get just about any item in the game himself.  thats the beauty of UO. you dont have to buy anything.  but the option is there if you choose.

    In regards to pets specifically, alot of these complaints are from pvm players who just want to look at numbers.  realistically 110 are not even that expensive, and is all you need for pvm. 

    I havent done a spawn in a few years (used to every morning on atlantic and rarely got raided), but even nowadays me being mostly a "trammy" i wouldnt want to take one of the few draws of fellucca away from that core group of players.  they are essential to the economy, and its one of the few ways for someone not interested in pvm to make some gold.  Theres plenty of pvm ways to make gold to buy said scrolls if the player doesnt want to take the time to find an empty spawn and get them himself. 

    In short, i see no change needed. 
  • SmootSmoot Posts: 309
    MissE said:
    @ Kyronix how about putting 'pet only' power scrolls in the Illshenar, Malas & Tokuno
    theres already 105 scrolls that drop.  with scroll binders you can eventually get enough to to make a 110, which is all most pets really need.
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited March 2018
    I have never ever gotten a 105 scroll from those spawns only tiny up to .5 pinks, since when did they add 105 white ones?  Plus I am saying put in 105, 110, 115 and 120 PET ONLY scrolls, totally different to the normal powerscrolls. It would create a whole new market and give a valuable reason to do those spawns.  Increase the drop rate in fel on scrolls so 12 normal power scrolls and 5 pet scrolls per boss if necessary to keep the pk's happy.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • MissE said:
    I have never ever gotten a 105 scroll from those spawns only tiny up to .5 pinks, since when did they add 105 white ones?  Plus I am saying put in 105, 110, 115 and 120 PET ONLY scrolls, totally different to the normal powerscrolls. It would create a whole new market and give a valuable reason to do those spawns.  Increase the drop rate in fel on scrolls so 12 normal power scrolls and 5 pet scrolls per boss if necessary to keep the pk's happy.

    105's have dropped since the system was introduced.
    -Arroth
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited March 2018
    Well they must be rare as hen's teeth then. I do the Ish spawns a LOT to train pets and have NEVER had a white scroll drop. EVER.

    The UO wiki must also be incorrect as it states: Scrolls of Power: These scrolls can only be found on Champions of Evil that spawn in the Dungeons and Lost Lands areas on the Felucca facet.

    UO Guide states: Power Scrolls are an in-game consumable that raise individual skill caps. Most are earned through the Champion Spawn system, and only on facet Felucca.

    If anyone out there has EVER got a 105 white power scroll at the ilshenar, tokuno or malas spawns please advise.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 749
    edited March 2018

    @MissE

    After reading through the thread again, I see that you are talking specifically about 105's in Ilsh. When I first read your question I thought you meant when were 105's added to the game. That was the question I was answering.

    -Arroth
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