can we have a serious discussion about the spawn and raiding situation

Seems to be a shortage of scrolls on many shards right now. Seems to be a certain group claiming they "scout" all shards and know when someone is doing a spawn no matter which it is and how out of the way it is. Yes I'm biased I love to do spawns and it does suck getting raided by 6 "people" but it's Fel I get that. This group is able to know when to raid at almost all hours right? so either they are scouting all shards and all spawns or something else? I don't wanna wine about, I'm looking for an open discussion cuz this feels like something shady and it's ruining the game (yes for me cuz i love to do them) but it seems so rampant right now
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Comments

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "not allowed to discuss this on this forum"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • gaygay Posts: 358
    edited January 2023
    What is there to discuss? You get scouted, either by bot relaying information to a discord server via a webhook, or by someone who just scouts a lot.

    If you're on atl what you can do is sit in brit sewers felucca and kill the one that starts it's route there. Or goto Tera keep and sit in the one tile hall before the sparkles, all of the bots that check dungeons use the sparkle routes. That's just two examples of an endless amount of things you can do to harass those bots, game mechanics and your imagination are the limiting factors.
  • all you can do is make some friends and try to fight them off. whether they're doing something shady or not is irrelevant to the fact that they are coming in and taking the spawn from you. in order to keep the spawn you will need to be able to fight them off. 
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • gay said:
    What is there to discuss? You get scouted, either by bot relaying information to a discord server via a webhook, or by someone who just scouts a lot.

    If you're on atl what you can do is sit in brit sewers felucca and kill the one that starts it's route there. Or goto Tera keep and sit in the one tile hall before the sparkles, all of the bots that check dungeons use the sparkle routes. That's just two examples of an endless amount of things you can do to harass those bots, game mechanics and your imagination are the limiting factors.
    This is what I wanted to discuss. what are others doing to help themselves. I did not know this  so the information is appreciated. Love any info to harrass bots so ty
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    edited January 2023
    Seems to be a shortage of scrolls on many shards right now. Seems to be a certain group claiming they "scout" all shards and know when someone is doing a spawn no matter which it is and how out of the way it is. Yes I'm biased I love to do spawns and it does suck getting raided by 6 "people" but it's Fel I get that. This group is able to know when to raid at almost all hours right? so either they are scouting all shards and all spawns or something else? I don't wanna wine about, I'm looking for an open discussion cuz this feels like something shady and it's ruining the game (yes for me cuz i love to do them) but it seems so rampant right now

    I am not aware there is an issue to even discuss.
    I have an anti scout character, we spawn in teams, we fight the players who raid us, we raid others, we manually scout.
    I'd invite these players to Europa, our game is about fighting at spawns :)
    There is no powerscroll shortage on Europa, we get them when we want them.
  • OK. please delete then

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    OK. please delete then

    Still a valid query, just saying I wasn't aware haha :)

    Last time I invited everyone over, they came, and wiped us out, but in the end we won, but this is what I play for, war and dominance in Felucca. :)

    It could well be the issue on Atlantic, but not on many other shards.
  • I'll say here what I said in Gen Chat last night on Great Lakes:

    Playing UO purely to raid every single spawn on every shard makes about as much sense to me as the villains in Sci-Fi/Fantasy stories who aim to destroy the universe.

    Those villains will end up destroying themselves along with everything in existence, so what's the point?

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?

    Sure, you go to Fel you run the risk of getting raided or PKed - everyone who goes to Fel understands and accepts that, so that's not even part of the discussion. The discussion is: why raid every single spawn on every single shard at every available opportunity? At least 50% of the people running spawns are people who need scrolls. (Either for their characters, pets, guild mates, or to sell.) They aren't PvPers, and usually have no intentions of fighting back. Only running, with hopes to survive long enough to recall to Tram when possible. The other 50% will give a fight back when raided. The raiders know who is who, they've been around long enough.

    It's incredibly selfish and short-sighted for people's defense of such practices as "well, I enjoy fighting in Fel". Fine, good for you. Not everyone does, and getting attacked randomly by people with ghost bots and illegal third party programs every single time they're trying to do something for their own game play isn't "fun".
    ~ Jennifer-Marie

    "Insanity is a naturally occurring mutation; humanity has just managed to perfect it." -- JMK [[me]]
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    edited January 2023

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe this is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
  • PaladinBobPaladinBob Posts: 52
    edited January 2023
    Cookie said:

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe it is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel yes. It's Fel. Like Jenn said we get that. It's only a Hysteria until there is some proof. Maybe it's speculation but thats why I said I wanted to have a discussion about it. There should be a group that can set bots or "something" to watch spawns on several shards get a notification about it, go raid then hop on another shard to do. If you want the reward of raiding, put in the work and scout. Maybe the games not for me anymore but this part of the "cheats or scripts or whatever" is a hard pill to swallow

    Also I think thats the point,the group doing it, doesnt seem to be in it for the pvp and using whatever methods they are using to do it. So they don't care about an invite to a shard to raid spawns cuz thats not what they are playing at. They are using some way to do what they are doing and its ruining things.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    edited January 2023
    Cookie said:

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe it is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel yes. It's Fel. Like Jenn said we get that. It's only a Hysteria until there is some proof. Maybe it's speculation but thats why I said I wanted to have a discussion about it. There should be a group that can set bots or "something" to watch spawns on several shards get a notification about it, go raid then hop on another shard to do. If you want the reward of raiding, put in the work and scout. Maybe the games not for me anymore but this part of the "cheats or scripts or whatever" is a hard pill to swallow
    I've seen this happen before, I've even been part of a set-up that did that on Atlantic quite successfully. It's a lot of effort, the people running it fall apart in the end. The chances of them doing it on all shards is highly limited - an Urban (UO) Myth.  We fought them on Europa before - and won - it was intense. There are things you can do to stop them, it all becomes part of the game - as I say, I have an anti scout character - Tracking, Detect Hidden, Stealth, Ninja, Hiding, Necro, SS - this scenario gives a real Scout a point to his existence. Very fun character, used to track down and eliminate these spawn cams. Hunt them, learn their patterns, ambush them. Counter them, feed off them :) 

    This is the point of the game and PvP. Stop thinking you can easy-mode everything solo like you do in Trammel, team up, use your brains, some of us like the challenge.
    We are Alice in Borderland. :)


  • What guild or group of people is raiding you on a consistent basis?
  • Cookie said:
    Cookie said:

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe it is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel yes. It's Fel. Like Jenn said we get that. It's only a Hysteria until there is some proof. Maybe it's speculation but thats why I said I wanted to have a discussion about it. There should be a group that can set bots or "something" to watch spawns on several shards get a notification about it, go raid then hop on another shard to do. If you want the reward of raiding, put in the work and scout. Maybe the games not for me anymore but this part of the "cheats or scripts or whatever" is a hard pill to swallow
    I've seen this happen before, I've even been part of a set-up that did that on Atlantic quite successfully. It's a lot of effort, the people running it fall apart in the end. The chances of them doing it on all shards is highly limited - an Urban (UO) Myth.  We fought them on Europa before - and won - it was intense. There are things you can do to stop them, it all becomes part of the game - as I say, I have an anti scout character - Tracking, Detect Hidden, Stealth, Ninja, Hiding, Necro, SS - this scenario gives a real Scout a point to his existence. Very fun character, used to track down and eliminate these spawn cams. Hunt them, learn their patterns, ambush them. Counter them, feed off them :) 

    This is the point of the game and PvP. Stop thinking you can easy-mode everything solo like you do in Trammel, team up, use your brains, some of us like the challenge.
    We are Alice in Borderland. :)


    This is good info and i can tweek a toon with those skills to try this. May I ask what you do then, do you go around hunting down bots with that toon and killing them? Don't they just come right back? Are there more obvious spots to find them or just stand near a sparkle detect hidden until something pops up?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    This is good info and i can tweek a toon with those skills to try this. May I ask what you do then, do you go around hunting down bots with that toon and killing them? Don't they just come right back? Are there more obvious spots to find them or just stand near a sparkle detect hidden until something pops up?
    I have replied in private message, I hope you find that helpful.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    What guild or group of people is raiding you on a consistent basis?
    I'm interested also, I want to add them to my little black book :)
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,101
    We have raiders on pac but they patrol regularly same on Cats Origin spotty mostly safe unless zerg guild of the week visiting 
  • Cookie said:
    What guild or group of people is raiding you on a consistent basis?
    I'm interested also, I want to add them to my little black book :)

    Its probably Cartel, they are pretty eazy kills. Would love to know!
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited January 2023
    “Quit blocking bots please
    they are for information purposes only

    the minister of trade at the docks in tram barks location of IDOCs and Krampus, champ scout bots do same thing in fel.
    go page GM on minister of trade instead…

    minister of trade fel should bark when champs being worked so people don’t have to run bots”

    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 1,334
    Have to admit this aspect of the game has never made much sense to me but know some players like the suspense and others enjoy preying on other players so I just accept it as part of the game’s culture that never really worked out well commercially for UO.  After being forced to create Trammel, developers continued to limit access to scrolls to Fel. with the hope of forcing enough players to go there that would satisfy the needs of the PvP players that play there.  Don’t think that planning ever worked out as intended.

    Allowing players to set up bots to monitor the spawn areas that produce scrolls makes it easy for raiding players locate and kill those players taking the risk to obtain scrolls.  Don’t quite understand why developers think that this practice encourages players to do those spawns.  But, on the down side anyway do not think there are that many active players left in the game to pursue that activity on most shards.

    When players set up characters on other shards to farm scrolls on those shards because they get raided frequently on their home shard you know this is a problem on at least some shards.  To be honest already have most the scrolls I need and enough gold to buy the few I don’t have so really don’t need to waste my time in Fel risking my life for a usually worthless piece of crap.  Just hoping the game lasts longer than I do, but from what I see anymore that’s not a good bet.  Sorry UO.




  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited January 2023
    “They should shard bound power scrolls too, stop this solo play from a few greedy shard shield veterans from ruining economy of live shards where the younger players who are taking more genuine risk and playing the game as intended are receiving less reward as the scrolls are worth less having to compete with veteran players obtaining scrolls uncontested.
    The veteran players like myself are perfectly capable of defending themselves at a champ spawn. It’s 14 year vet reward, don’t need to give such advantage to people like me.

    then people wouldn’t need to run bots on dead shards either

    I’m a believer on being tough on crime, and tough on the causes of crime”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,101
    edited January 2023
    Yoshi said:
    “They need to shard bound power scrolls too, stop this solo play from a few greedy shed shield veterans from ruining economy of live shards”

    then people wouldn’t need to run bots on dead shards either

    I’m a believer on being tough on crime, and tough on the causes of crime”
    I'd suggest that the market for players is greatly tapped out and simply creating pet power scrolls available in tram would fix the problem 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited January 2023
    “it’s actually pretty lame, action is 95%+ at yew gate on Atlantic because spawns rarely get done (I have access to many guild’s bots logs so I know how many are being done per day)
    yet amazingly powerscroll market is constantly flooded…

    Shard bounding scrolls will make for better pvp fights”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    Seems to be a shortage of scrolls on many shards right now. Seems to be a certain group claiming they "scout" all shards and know when someone is doing a spawn no matter which it is and how out of the way it is. Yes I'm biased I love to do spawns and it does suck getting raided by 6 "people" but it's Fel I get that. This group is able to know when to raid at almost all hours right? so either they are scouting all shards and all spawns or something else? I don't wanna wine about, I'm looking for an open discussion cuz this feels like something shady and it's ruining the game (yes for me cuz i love to do them) but it seems so rampant right now
    Scripted, and automated CAMs.....

    That is what the real problem is, to my opinion.

    When raiders can put up multiple clients instances with scripted automated CAMs that use no time of the player which then report any presence in the area with a buzzer to whomever player is running them so that they can then raid the Spawn, there is not much that players willing to run the spawns can do.

    What should be done, is to effectively KILL the ability for players to monitor these spawns in a scripted, AFK automated way whether it is using Ghost Cams OR hidden EJ characters CAMs.

    Until then, if there is players running such a scripted, automated set up to monitor all Champ Spawns, I do not think that there is much that the players can do.

    We have players here Monitoring Champ Spawns with means which go against the TOS... therefore, to my opinion, this is by all means a DESIGN issue and it should be the Developers who should address it and put it to end, somewhow.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited January 2023
    gay said:
    What is there to discuss? You get scouted, either by bot relaying information to a discord server via a webhook, or by someone who just scouts a lot.

    If you're on atl what you can do is sit in brit sewers felucca and kill the one that starts it's route there. Or goto Tera keep and sit in the one tile hall before the sparkles, all of the bots that check dungeons use the sparkle routes. That's just two examples of an endless amount of things you can do to harass those bots, game mechanics and your imagination are the limiting factors.
    I entirely disagree.

    Saved a few exceptions who might be following the TOS, most players monitoring the Spawns are using, to my understanding, ways that go against the TOS.

    Therefore, it should NOT be the responsibility of players to stop this monitoring BUT, rather, it should be the Developers who should adjust the mechanics of the game so as NOT to make such monitoring as possible.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    Cookie said:

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe it is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel yes. It's Fel. Like Jenn said we get that. It's only a Hysteria until there is some proof. Maybe it's speculation but thats why I said I wanted to have a discussion about it. There should be a group that can set bots or "something" to watch spawns on several shards get a notification about it, go raid then hop on another shard to do. If you want the reward of raiding, put in the work and scout. Maybe the games not for me anymore but this part of the "cheats or scripts or whatever" is a hard pill to swallow

    Also I think thats the point,the group doing it, doesnt seem to be in it for the pvp and using whatever methods they are using to do it. So they don't care about an invite to a shard to raid spawns cuz thats not what they are playing at. They are using some way to do what they are doing and its ruining things.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel....

    I do not think that the argument is players monitoring Champ Spawns in Felucca and then raiding them IF players are doing it AT THE KEYBOARD and actually spending their time looking at a screen where their character is that Monitors that spawn....

    The one and most noteworthy issue is, to my opinion, that many, among these players are NOT investing their actual time doing that monitoring but are using scripted, automated BOTs, perhaps multy-cliented on single computers, which then report to some discord Channel whenever actual presences are witnessed at those spawns.

    And then, raiders actually reach that spwn and raid it.

    It is the scripted, automated AFK Botted monitoring which, to my understanding, is against the TOS, which is the problem here and which, therefore, should be addressed by the Developers and made not possible, somehow, to be carried out.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    Cookie said:
    Cookie said:

    Raiding every active spawn on every shard will end up with no one doing spawns at all eventually, so what's the point?
    I don't believe it is happening, and If so, I invite them to Europa - we will bury them for you :)

    We are doing 10+ spawns per day without trying, and often raiding a couple.

    Posts like this, often create Hysteria amongst Trammies as you all buy into it. Felucca was always about teamwork.
    I think you're missing the point. If someone is running a spawn and someone else is actively scouting the spawns and raid you thats the risk you take when you go to fel yes. It's Fel. Like Jenn said we get that. It's only a Hysteria until there is some proof. Maybe it's speculation but thats why I said I wanted to have a discussion about it. There should be a group that can set bots or "something" to watch spawns on several shards get a notification about it, go raid then hop on another shard to do. If you want the reward of raiding, put in the work and scout. Maybe the games not for me anymore but this part of the "cheats or scripts or whatever" is a hard pill to swallow
    I've seen this happen before, I've even been part of a set-up that did that on Atlantic quite successfully. It's a lot of effort, the people running it fall apart in the end. The chances of them doing it on all shards is highly limited - an Urban (UO) Myth.  We fought them on Europa before - and won - it was intense. There are things you can do to stop them, it all becomes part of the game - as I say, I have an anti scout character - Tracking, Detect Hidden, Stealth, Ninja, Hiding, Necro, SS - this scenario gives a real Scout a point to his existence. Very fun character, used to track down and eliminate these spawn cams. Hunt them, learn their patterns, ambush them. Counter them, feed off them :) 

    This is the point of the game and PvP. Stop thinking you can easy-mode everything solo like you do in Trammel, team up, use your brains, some of us like the challenge.
    We are Alice in Borderland. :)


    There are things you can do to stop them, it all becomes part of the game - as I say, I have an anti scout character - Tracking, Detect Hidden, Stealth, Ninja, Hiding, Necro, SS - this scenario gives a real Scout a point to his existence.

    And ?

    Players, because of a flawed mechanics which permits automated, scripted BOTs to be used on computer multi-clienting these monitoring characters should actually spend their own playing time to track down, with a GREAT expenditure of their (limited) playing time, to find these scripted, automated monitoring BOTs ?

    And to what purpose, if I may ask, when a downed Botter immediately prompts to be replaced ?

    Players should invest a considerable chunk of their playing time to find these BOTs which can then be restarted "on the fly" ?

    Really ?

    It should be the Developers, to my opinion, who should make changes to the mechanics of the game so that the running of these scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs were NOT possible to start with.... and NOT ask to players to engage in a futile activity to spend large chunks of their limited playing time to track down these Monitoring botters only to then see them being replaced in no time even when they eventually find them....
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    Yoshi said:
    “Quit blocking bots please
    they are for information purposes only

    the minister of trade at the docks in tram barks location of IDOCs and Krampus, champ scout bots do same thing in fel.
    go page GM on minister of trade instead…

    minister of trade fel should bark when champs being worked so people don’t have to run bots”

    minister of trade fel should bark when champs being worked so people don’t have to run bots

    How about, instead, the Designers change the mechanics so that players have to "actively" Monitor Spawns OUT OF THEIR OWN PLAYING TIME, instead of being able to use scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs off of computers running multiple UO clients at once all of which, to my understading, is against the TOS ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    edited January 2023
    popps said:


    I do not think that the argument is players monitoring Champ Spawns in Felucca and then raiding them IF players are doing it AT THE KEYBOARD and actually spending their time looking at a screen where their character is that Monitors that spawn....

    The one and most noteworthy issue is, to my opinion, that many, among these players are NOT investing their actual time doing that monitoring but are using scripted, automated BOTs, perhaps multy-cliented on single computers, which then report to some discord Channel whenever actual presences are witnessed at those spawns.

    And then, raiders actually reach that spwn and raid it.

    It is the scripted, automated AFK Botted monitoring which, to my understanding, is against the TOS, which is the problem here and which, therefore, should be addressed by the Developers and made not possible, somehow, to be carried out.

    I think at some point players and developers are going to have to accept that scripting is part of gaming evolution.

    You know as well as I do, Miners, Lumberjackers, BOD fillers, Monster/Item farmers, Event Participators have been scripting away without consequence FOREVER in Trammel. You cannot point to just the one activity that upsets you, because it is in Felucca. These activities in Trammel are the reason for most of UO's problems. I love the guy who goes on about UO's commerciality when it is the PvPers maintaining the entire game, and always has been.

    Much of UO systems have been built with Scripting in mind even, this is why BOD filling, Mining etc, have been made so much harder. Blackthorns Dungeon? Cleared of content and mobs because of AFK Play - the correct decision for Trammel - but not for Felucca as we were able to enact player Justice and easily kill a player who was AFK farming. For Felucca, it just ruined some great game content.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,974
    edited January 2023
    Cookie said:
    popps said:


    I do not think that the argument is players monitoring Champ Spawns in Felucca and then raiding them IF players are doing it AT THE KEYBOARD and actually spending their time looking at a screen where their character is that Monitors that spawn....

    The one and most noteworthy issue is, to my opinion, that many, among these players are NOT investing their actual time doing that monitoring but are using scripted, automated BOTs, perhaps multy-cliented on single computers, which then report to some discord Channel whenever actual presences are witnessed at those spawns.

    And then, raiders actually reach that spwn and raid it.

    It is the scripted, automated AFK Botted monitoring which, to my understanding, is against the TOS, which is the problem here and which, therefore, should be addressed by the Developers and made not possible, somehow, to be carried out.

    I think at some point players and developers are going to have to accept that scripting is part of gaming evolution.

    You know as well as I do, Miners, Lumberjackers, BOD fillers, Monster/Item farmers, Event Participators have been scripting away without consequence FOREVER in Trammel. You cannot point to just the one activity that upsets you, because it is in Felucca. These activities in Trammel are the reason for most of UO's problems. I love the guy who goes on about UO's commerciality when it is the PvPers maintaining the entire game, and always has been.

    Much of UO systems have been built with Scripting in mind even, this is why BOD filling, Mining etc, have been made so much harder. Blackthorns Dungeon? Cleared of content and mobs because of AFK Play.
    I am sorry, but I think that games are intended to be "actively" played by players and not scripted using automated BOTs which permit to players to achieve in-game things while not being actively controlling their character.

    It defies, to my opinion, the entire concept of "playing a game".

    Unfortunately, to my understanding, there is players who do not see Ultima Online as a game to play but, rather, as a way to make real money... so, in order to make this money making process more efficient, BOTs are used which can run on their own, without having the user have to invest any of their own time at the botted process.

    Then, the items get sold for real money or the in-game gold obtained from their in-game selling is sold for real money.

    Powerscrolls, are no different, to my opinion, and their Monopoly, reached thanking to the large use of scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs to then raid the Champ Spawns, is used to artificially corner the market, control Powerscrolls' prices and thus fetch more gold from their sale and, for those who then sell that gold (or the powerscrolls themselves) for real money, fetch more real money from their selling.

    This, at least to my opinion, does NOT help the game but, rather, kills it considering how players have to already spend money for a monthly subscription, and often also on the UO Store with Sovereigns which also cost Real Money.... if they then need to "also" have to spend more real money to buy items or Powerscrolls that are too hard for them to get, because of mechanics and of Raiders which can easily Monitor any and all Champ Spawns thanking to the use of scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs and multi-clienting off of a single computer, eventually some players might realize how playing UO might not be worth all of this expenditure of their real money and they might go play other games for less expenditure of their money that still bring them enjoyment and fun.....

    And Ultima Online looses players base, of the good players, mind you, those who actually want to play the game, not exploit it for monetary gains....

    To my opinion, all of these scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs activities should be ended by the Developers with appropriate changes to the mechanics of the game and the TOS fully enforced.... because their going on actually damages UO, not helps it..... if players want to Monitor Champ Spawns, they should be forced to have to do it actually using their own in-game time, ACTIVELY controlling the characters doing such Monitoring, and not using AFK scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs and multi-clienting off of a single computer that use none or hardly any of their time at the keyboard.

    @Mesanna , @Kyronix , how about making changes to UO so that people can NO LONGER use scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs using none or hardly of their actual in-game time to control these Monitoring characters ?

    Sure, "some" changes were done to Ghosts used as "Ghosts CAMs" but, clerly, they are not enough not to mention that Endless Journey characters are being used, also, very extensively, as "Hidden EJ CAMs" that Monitor these Spawns through automated BOTTed scripts that require hardly any of a players' time to be controlled, because scripts run them.... until they detect activity at a Champ Spawn and report to perhaps a Discord Channel or elsewhere for them players to gang up and Raid that Spawn.

    I think it as necessary that the Developers stop all of this, and force players to have to "actively" Monitor Champion Spawns actually controlling their character being at the keyboard, and not through some AFK Botted, Monitoring script that runs in the background...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,328
    popps said:

    I am sorry, but I think that games are intended to be "actively" played by players and not scripted using automated BOTs which permit to players to achieve in-game things while not being actively controlling their character.

    It defies, to my opinion, the entire concept of "playing a a game".

    Unfortunately, to my understanding, there is players who do not see Ultima Online as a game to play but, rather, as a way to make real money... so, in order to make this money making process more efficient, BOTs are used which can run on their own, without having the user have to invest any of their own time in the botted process.

    Then, the items get sold for real money or the in-game gold obtained from their in-game selling is sold for real money.

    Powerscrolls, are no different, tp my opinion, and their Monopoly, reached thanking to the large use of scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs to then raid the Champ Spawns, is used to artificially corner the market, control Powerscrolls' prices and thus fetch more gold from their sale and, for those who then sell that gold (or the powerscrolls themselves) for real money, fetch more real money from their selling.

    This, at least to my opinion, does NOT help the game but, rather, kills it considering how players have to already spend money for a monthly subscription, and often also on the UO Store with Sovereigns which also cost Real Money.... if they then need to "also" have to spend more real money to buy items or Powerscrolls that are too hard for them to get, because of mechanics and of Raiders which can easily Monitor any and all Champ Spawns thanking to the use of scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs and multi-clienting off of a single computer, eventually some players might realize how playing UO might not be worth all of this expenditure of real money and they might go play other games for less expenditure of their money.....

    And Ultima Online looses players base, of the good players, mind you, those who actually want to play the game, not exploit it for monetary gains....

    To my opinion, all of this scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs activities should be ended by the Developers with appropriate changes to the mechanics of the game and the TOS fully enforced.... because their going on actually damages UO, not helps it..... if players want to Monitor Champ Spawns, they should be forced to have to do it actually using their own in-game time, ACTIVELY controlling the characters doing such Monitoring, and not using AFK scripted, automated Monitoring BOTs and multi-clienting off of a single computer that use none or hardly any of their time at the keyboard.
    I get that this is your genuine opinion.

    My opinion is that UO is almost unplayable due to the time investment required and huge breadth of content in the game, any new player basically cannot catch up.

    My sons, playing their kids games, regularly hit their AFK scripting programs before they go to school, and leave their pc's playing for them while they are at school (Minecraft, Pet Simulator, Roblox, Beeswarm Simulator etc). Gaming progression often finds its way into real life - see the old macros that found their way into Excel spreadsheets etc - the point being - yes, everyone in the world is after more efficiency - this is not a bad thing.

    People are busy, we have real lives, many UO activities take an insane amount of time to complete, there are unnecessary timesinks built in everywhere. Opening monster corpses after you have manually opened the first 2 million, becomes a godsend when you can automate it.
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