What Is The Real World Official Stance On Using Scripts?

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  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 603
    edited June 27
    What I have learnt from this is that the Dev team do not play this game, or log in, if they did they would discover in a nanosecond that people are scripting the eggs.

    I also think they do not read the boards, or most certainly Mesanna no longer does. There is no way in hell she is unaware of this egg script outrage, but the lack of action against EJ accts in just shocking. By not allowing EJ access to game contact tiles events would stop 90% of the egg scripting we are exposed to on a daily basis, and anyone stupid enough to run the script with their master acct deserves what they get

    Even now Mesanna has not explained why she will NOT restrict EJ accts.

    So I guess they just do their work on NL that no-one cares for and go home/log off without even checking quality control. Oh wait, that stoned fella on the live feed should do this shouldn't he?

    Anyone know what he actually does?  he seems to be missing a blatant run of cheating! Quality assurance?
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    "I wasn't really complaining about the scripts, it doesn't actually bother me at all, they're all fairly minor things, nothing game breaking"
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  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 938
    Read a lot but not all of the posts here.  No special shield so don’t play on Atlantic at all and to be honest have no desire to play there.  Bots are a pain but with a rune set for Britain’s farms and a few others can compete with them now.  Point is if they have been tolerated since 1997 that is good evidence that developers can’t can’t effectively deal with them and if they could maybe they would lose 25% of the player base since I think most people playing this game have been playing it for a long time.

    Did read that switching everyone to the EC would solve the problem but that potential solution crashed and burned when attempted or at least seriously discussed.

    Problem, as I see it, is that eggs are too easy too pick up.  Bots recall in, pickup the egg and recall out.  Maybe if picking up the egg involved something like answering a question or keying something in to prove the player is a human would resolve this or at least slow them down. That would slow things down playwise but most bots I see, although not all, are fairly stupid.  Some can’t see eggs inside or outside of houses.  Answering a question or having choose to do a second task easy for a human might help to solve this as far as the eggs go.  Anyway, just a thought.  Can’t play tonight so doing this instead.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited June 28
    keven2002 said:
    Good running list there and perfect example of why I stopped actively PvPing. When people use the auto potion / trapped box it's pretty obvious when they don't have resist because they are running through para and para field like it's nothing (while still flagging you) and aren't poisoned for more than a fraction of a second ever (I've had guys go through 30 pots by just poisoning them repeatedly). If they are using these scripts, they really don't even need any resist because poison/para are totally negated and throw an auto apple on top and even curse won't be applied for long. These guys are almost impossible for me to kill. 

    I've also noticed something that looks like a script (maybe it's not but who knows) the few days when Destard was open in Fel on ATL where a person was dismounted but started spamming "all follow me" as they were running around healing/teleporting/curing their mount and was able to keep their mount alive (mainly because it followed them the whole time) and run off. Meanwhile, I get dismounted and can't even pull my mounts health bar before it's poisoned and AI spammed to death.
    "Having auto drink cure and auto trapped box does not negate requirement for resisting spells at all, there are more than 2 spells that are affected by resist. And the fact they actually get poisoned or paralized albeit for a split second is still enough. Once you mana vamp someone, they are out of the fight. 


    okay some clients will auto display your mount's healthbar, 
    but almost all actions you can actually make a macro for on official classic client. Obviously it's not possible in most situations to manually pull your own mount's healthbar when you're surrounded by enemies so.
    I have a macro to pull my own mount's healthbar:
    select nearest: follower

    I also have a macro to pop a new VvV horse and mount:
    uoassist, use object type + menu selection
    then use uo macro: say all follow me
    select nearest follower, use selected target  
    (this is perhaps a bad example because there is a bug on official classic client where if you're in combat mode it won't work, but i'm sure it will be fixed soon)

    1vs1 scripts do very little, nobody is impossible to kill, if they are their template is so defensive that they will be unable to kill you either."

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  • SethSeth Posts: 2,749
    Arnold7 said:
    Read a lot but not all of the posts here.  No special shield so don’t play on Atlantic at all and to be honest have no desire to play there.  Bots are a pain but with a rune set for Britain’s farms and a few others can compete with them now.  Point is if they have been tolerated since 1997 that is good evidence that developers can’t can’t effectively deal with them and if they could maybe they would lose 25% of the player base since I think most people playing this game have been playing it for a long time.

    Did read that switching everyone to the EC would solve the problem but that potential solution crashed and burned when attempted or at least seriously discussed.

    Problem, as I see it, is that eggs are too easy too pick up.  Bots recall in, pickup the egg and recall out.  Maybe if picking up the egg involved something like answering a question or keying something in to prove the player is a human would resolve this or at least slow them down. That would slow things down playwise but most bots I see, although not all, are fairly stupid.  Some can’t see eggs inside or outside of houses.  Answering a question or having choose to do a second task easy for a human might help to solve this as far as the eggs go.  Anyway, just a thought.  Can’t play tonight so doing this instead.
    Yup, it is a 1997-era issue. We can't blame all the hacks developed during the hay days of Ultima Online. By the time EC was introduced the population was probably in decline. There are more attractive games out there.

    However, I still disagree to use Captcha to test real players.

    Yeah, it blocks bots so those players can simply... move on and don't play. But the active players are the idiots who has to answer Captcha codes.


    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited June 28
    "Twitch apparently bans streamers who are caught using cheats. And have a 0 tolerance. 

    I would be interested to know how this works with UO.


    I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

     "
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  • poppspopps Posts: 3,300
    edited June 28
    Yoshi said:
    "Twitch apparently bans streamers who are caught using cheats. And have a 0 tolerance. 

    I would be interested to know how this works with UO.


    I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

     "

    I just had a quick browse, people stream on official servers using unofficial client...

    Please correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.... would that perhaps mean, that by simply looking at Videos of Ultima Online the Developers could easily identify players using "unofficial" clients which were to be against the TOS and take whatever appropriate action would be needed against those accounts ?

    Out of curiosity, how long did it take you for that "quick" browse ?

    Would it be a time reasonably short enough for a Developer or Game Master who would want to identify players using "unofficial" clients in violation of the TOS ?

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited June 28
    "well popps, if you go on youtube and search for uo pvp atlantic (or any shard) and sort by this month, let me know if you find a single person using official client..


    But at the end of the day, they are paying customers, they are paying for something that should be free of defects..
    who is really in violation of ToS? i would say that broadsword QA are violating some sort of consumer ToSs if the customer feels forced to download fixes from a third party source, as the product they are paying for doesn't work.

    select next hostile: magpie.......

    don't we as consumers have any rights at all when we prepay a 6 month subscription??
    maybe not"
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  • TimTim Posts: 712
    Yoshi said:
    "well popps, if you go on youtube and search for uo pvp atlantic (or any shard) and sort by this month, let me know if you find a single person using official client..


    But at the end of the day, they are paying customers, they are paying for something that should be free of defects..
    who is really in violation of ToS? i would say that broadsword QA are violating some sort of consumer ToSs if the customer feels forced to download fixes from a third party source, as the product they are paying for doesn't work.

    select next hostile: magpie.......

    don't we as consumers have any rights at all when we prepay a 6 month subscription??
    maybe not"
    No
    You are "entitled" not to use the offered services no more no less.

    PS the customer is rarely right.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited June 28
    "I think i should get a cent refund each time i am hit with nerve strike and the debuff doesn't show, how this is still a thing?
    nobody else complains cos nobody use this client anymore"
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  • SethSeth Posts: 2,749
    edited June 29
    It should be easier than NLS, to make a EC version 2.0 with switchable graphics.

    I believe they can block access based on client type. E.g. If we don't patch client they blocked our login. They can tell us alot of users are still using CC which is why its not sunseted but yet upgraded. So why not blocked CC after fixing EC 2.0 that can switch between new and old graphics and then force CC sunset.

    I still think the 3rd party are hooked up to official clients to login. It's unlikely a completely standalone client remade with its own graphics file, etc.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    All the speculation is useless when the developers have chosen ostrich style......
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited June 29
    “If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

    I will maybe create an account on twitch and report all the UO players as cheating and see if they all get banned. If twitch with its 0 tolerance on cheating doesn’t say it’s cheating then maybe they have more info than us”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
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  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Yoshi said:
    I don't think twitch is gonna care and even if they did it only removes them from twitch the end result is nothing...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 51
    Yoshi said:
    “If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

    I will maybe create an account on twitch and report all the UO players as cheating and see if they all get banned. If twitch with its 0 tolerance on cheating doesn’t say it’s cheating then maybe they have more info than us”
    You got a lot of time on your hands don't you bud?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,741
    Oreogl said:
    Yoshi said:
    “If they have dropped support for official clients (which by the 4+ year old bug list it appears like they have) and are encouraging us to source our own by turning a blind eye, the least they can do is provide a safe download link. 

    I will maybe create an account on twitch and report all the UO players as cheating and see if they all get banned. If twitch with its 0 tolerance on cheating doesn’t say it’s cheating then maybe they have more info than us”
    You got a lot of time on your hands don't you bud?
    He's busy waiting for stat loss to wear off 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 2
    “Some gaming industry affiliates such as Twitch or other streaming services take the view that cheating actually has a negative impact on gaming as an industry (even though Broadsword may not take that view) and will take steps to discourage if.

    If such a third party wants/needs to view a list of approved programs for Ultima online, where do they find this list?

    Giving them a link to a random forum moderator’s comment advising “to my knowledge x is approved” is not going to be sufficient.
    How can one streamer prove that UOAssist and any mapping program is allowed? and O***n or R***r is not? 
    To that note, a forum moderator may edit out a name in this comment, again the same question, where can we find a list of names of programs we are allowed to name (other than that which is the personal opinion of the forum moderator and it shall remain personal opinion until the list is displayed on the website or under Ts and Cs)”
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  • poppspopps Posts: 3,300
    edited July 2
    Yoshi said:
    “Some gaming industry affiliates such as Twitch or other streaming services take the view that cheating actually has a negative impact on gaming as an industry (even though Broadsword may not take that view) and will take steps to discourage if.

    If such a third party wants/needs to view a list of approved programs for Ultima online, where do they find this list?

    Giving them a link to a random forum moderator’s comment advising “to my knowledge x is approved” is not going to be sufficient.
    How can one streamer prove that UOAssist and any mapping program is allowed? and O***n or R***r is not? 
    To that note, a forum moderator may edit out a name in this comment, again the same question, where can we find a list of names of programs we are allowed to name (other than that which is the personal opinion of the forum moderator and it shall remain personal opinion until the list is displayed on the website or under Ts and Cs)”
    Personally, I fail to understand how anyone could not see cheating as fundamentally detrimental and hurting to games and to the Games Industry....

    I mean, "who" would want to play the same game together with fellow players who cheat ?

    I have a hard time understanding how a Game Developer, a Game Publisher or someone who work in the Games Industry could not see eradicating cheating from Games as a # 1 Priority....
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 2
    “The issue here is, there are no clear rules on what is cheating and what is not cheating.
    in shooter games, auto aim programs are considered cheating - so the program targets for you.
    In uo if the player is automatically targeted for you (from a third party player sending the target to all players in the alliance) that could be construed as auto aim or even multi boxing no?

    also in shooters, wall hacks are not allowed (a program that allows people to see other players who are behind walls. And in uo in unofficial client you can see behind walls that official clients can’t see (and you can target the player/ground if in line of site too) so this could be construed as a wall hack.

    Also if unofficial client allows you to run and cast spells slightly faster, albeit just due to being able to run the game at a higher FramePerSecond, this could maybe be considered a speed hack?

    There are no clear rules on what is allowed and what is not allowed especially since in EC you can also do so many automatic actions”
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  • SethSeth Posts: 2,749
    I think it is clear what is cheating. It is also clear why they can't remove them 100%. The answers are in 5 pages of forum thread for those topic.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 5
    "generally i don't mind people using the all hacks included client with inbuilt speeder to run faster and cast faster, because i am experienced player and it helps less experienced people compete.

    But why they are letting 15-20 year old vets who don't need, use such cheats?
    stupid


    From uo wiki:
    Moving Shot – This special move allows archers or throwers to fire while on the move. This shot is somewhat less accurate than normal, but the ability to fire while running is a clear advantage. damage is always physical regardless of other damage modifiers including quivers and Consecrate Weapon

    Allowing people on a faster client to turn ANY special into moving shot where you can catch up to people on the move hit them with whatever and they can't do the same to them unless they are splintered is stupid

    Please restrict the cheats to players <5 year account"

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  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 1,339
    Yoshi said:
    Please restrict the cheats to players <5 year account"

    Please tell us old wise one tell us how this can be done
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 5
    "simple, on login check account age, if age = 60> months deny login instead of accept for unofficial client.

    I dont' care if one person cheats, but it just takes 2 people on faster client to spam AI or any weapon special or any spell on you when you're moving,

    Also, why you even going into stat loss when killed by cheaters?
    should not lose stat or gold even
    or if broadsword have to accept all logins from unofficial client, then just reduce their movement/casting speed to normal at least

    People who are playing 10, 15 years, do not need to cheat against new players who are not using cheats"
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 6
    "this is a total joke
    people who are perfectly able to play the game without cheating, running round yew right now on live shard on client that makes them run at double speed,
    it's pathetic

    let us imagine they for some far fetched reason didn't record what client people are logging in with,
    here is a way to tell:
    if person casting spell can cast 2 x faster and run 2 x speed then they are using cheat client,
    hope this info helps.."

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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 6
    "please at least cap movement speed to normal speed,
    if you're using official client, and you disarm someone, they will not stand still and let you hit them with 3 hits Armor ignore for example, they will move away and you won't be able to hit them.
    but if you're using cheat client, you can just disarm someone and catch up to them and hit with 3 x any hit, no splinter even required because the client is so fast
    hit like moving shot but you can do Armor ignore of nerve strike or anything

    Why are they allowing people to do this?

    there are already a ton of extra scripts etc built in, isn't that enough advantage already?
     don't need added advantage of running and casting faster"
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  • Acid_RainAcid_Rain Posts: 226
    @Seth
    Thanks 4 linking my thread of +4yrs ago. Interesting to see just how much progress has been made. :D

    Said at the time its was my ‘biggest curiosity’ for UO. I’ve given up on it as they have also, apparently. Its why I haven’t logged in to play in years.  :(

    In b4 the lock...
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 2,012
    edited July 6
    “For example 
    If you have entered yourself into the Atlantic mage pvp tournament 
    https://forum.uo.com/discussion/10851/atlantic-pvp-mage-tournament#latest

    I would say you probably do not need to use performance enhancing client, as you’re a self confessed accomplished mage.
    Yet I recognise some names on the list are those who do.

    Not necessary at all”


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  • SethSeth Posts: 2,749
    should pvp start naked and the participants run into the arena to pickup items to equip in order to kill the other. 

    Think
    #hungergames 
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
  • SethSeth Posts: 2,749
    Acid_Rain said:
    @ Seth
    Thanks 4 linking my thread of +4yrs ago. Interesting to see just how much progress has been made. :D

    Said at the time its was my ‘biggest curiosity’ for UO. I’ve given up on it as they have also, apparently. Its why I haven’t logged in to play in years.  :(

    In b4 the lock...
    If they are as quick to debug as to lock a thread, the game would have a better future.
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 
    ESRB warning: Some Blood. LOTS of Alcohol. Some Violence. LOTS of Bugs
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