This Is Really Getting Old

vortex · May 2022

Arroth_Thaiel said:

Estel_Randir said:

From multiple threads I have read during this event explaining the EC targeting system, that is exactly what is being done via the EC.

No one who is running around in Auto-Follow is using the EC. They are using the CC, with xtra's. Those extras can be far more efficient than the default CC.

You make it sound as though this is an EC issue. It is not. You are not competing with the EC. Stop trying to make this an EC thing.

This is a CC with xtra's issue.
You are competing with the CC with xtra's.

The default CC has difficulty competing with the CC+xtras.

Estel_Randir said:

The CC targeting macro is not nearly as powerful. There is no auto looping in the macro system and there is also lag in the CC macro system that will not allow you to be nearly as efficient at spam targeting as the CC+xtras. ... you will still be "outgunned" by those using the CC+xtras target system.

That's what you are actually seeing.

Exactly...

keven2002 · May 2022

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Yep. I ran into Atlantic Destard last night around 11 PM PST on my Macer, and all three levels were completely dominated by scripters. The Devs just need to flat out release Sudiva into Destard every now and then so she can clean house of all the afk scripters.

dvvid said:

All day and all night scripting in Destard on Atlantic. Great event.

Estel_Randir said:

@ Kyronix. The point to the developers (in case it got lost in sidetracks) is a large portion of players are sick of trying to compete for drops in rather limited spawn areas versus single players who are running 3-5 accounts - a large portion of whom clearly seem to be doing so illegally. It is not just one person doing this, I see multiple people doing this day in and day out. You, the developers have created roughly only 3 small areas in the entire dungeon that are worth fighting in. So these players are attempting to monopolize the spawns. Some of them then set up vendors houses outside the dungeon to sell the drops so they can carry the cash back to whatever shard they came from. They do this on my shard.

@Kyronix - Are you paying attention? The scripting is getting out of hand. If you guys can only make the spawn work in those static locations and you can't do anything about the people multi-boxing just open Fel. What's the harm at this point?

Pawain · May 2022

keven2002 said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Yep. I ran into Atlantic Destard last night around 11 PM PST on my Macer, and all three levels were completely dominated by scripters. The Devs just need to flat out release Sudiva into Destard every now and then so she can clean house of all the afk scripters.

dvvid said:

All day and all night scripting in Destard on Atlantic. Great event.

Estel_Randir said:

@ Kyronix. The point to the developers (in case it got lost in sidetracks) is a large portion of players are sick of trying to compete for drops in rather limited spawn areas versus single players who are running 3-5 accounts - a large portion of whom clearly seem to be doing so illegally. It is not just one person doing this, I see multiple people doing this day in and day out. You, the developers have created roughly only 3 small areas in the entire dungeon that are worth fighting in. So these players are attempting to monopolize the spawns. Some of them then set up vendors houses outside the dungeon to sell the drops so they can carry the cash back to whatever shard they came from. They do this on my shard.

@ Kyronix - Are you paying attention? The scripting is getting out of hand. If you guys can only make the spawn work in those static locations and you can't do anything about the people multi-boxing just open Fel. What's the harm at this point?

Yes this kinda. Fix the problem in Tram where the event is. Too many conspiracy theorists who think punishing legit players is fixing the problem.

I would like to see this in fel tho. Those sets of 5 Gargoyles will be wiping all of you out on 2 seconds if they can take down the paras in Destard in 1 second.

Open the hole back up!

JenniferMarie · May 2022

I posted a fairly well thought out solution in another thread. TL:DR - if they can't or won't do anything about scripters/cheaters, then just put multiple spawn points throughout the dungeon that spawn the way Destard did the first 36 hours of this event. That will provide multiple points for legitimate players to group up and kill things, getting quite a few drops, and making all those scripters' work obsolete because players will be able to claim all of the rewards they want for themselves and won't be buying things on VS.

That said, any character that is on Auto-Follow is using CC to play - whether they're just using the straight OSI CC or using CC with some kind of third party program. There is absolutely no auto-follow option in EC. Yes, EC macros can be pretty OP but most legitimate players who use EC macros don't set them up in a way that negates "playing". (Speaking from personal experience and from conversations with other people on my home shard who play EC.)

ForeverFun · May 2022

JenniferMarie said:

I posted a fairly well thought out solution in another thread. TL:DR - if they can't or won't do anything about scripters/cheaters, then just put multiple spawn points throughout the dungeon that spawn the way Destard did the first 36 hours of this event. That will provide multiple points for legitimate players to group up and kill things, getting quite a few drops, and making all those scripters' work obsolete because players will be able to claim all of the rewards they want for themselves and won't be buying things on VS.

That said, any character that is on Auto-Follow is using CC to play - whether they're just using the straight OSI CC or using CC with some kind of third party program. There is absolutely no auto-follow option in EC. Yes, EC macros can be pretty OP but most legitimate players who use EC macros don't set them up in a way that negates "playing". (Speaking from personal experience and from conversations with other people on my home shard who play EC.)

There are likely legitimate reasons they had to pull the "instant respawn" pile of the first ~2 days of the event. "Server Stability" was referenced by a UO developer, and people posted that at least ATL crashed.

You can see speculation on that here:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/75023/#Comment_75023

Until the underlying issues are fixed which led to the stability issues, I doubt very much you'll see the "instant respawn" pile turned back on. Even if the stability and lag issues are fixed, you may not see these types of piles surface again, as broadsword could well have been monitoring the drop rates, and decided they were simply too high.

JenniferMarie · May 2022

ForeverFun said:

Until the underlying issues are fixed which led to the stability issues, I doubt very much you'll see the "instant respawn" pile turned back on.

I never said I wanted the "instant respawn pile" turned back on - I suggested in the other thread having numerous spawn points:

First Level - the Dragon Pit, the southeast corner where the Platinum/Crimson Drakes and Water Elementals spawn, the northeast corner (champ spawn area), and further up the west side near the entrance to the second level

As well one spawn point on the second level and one on the third.

This would spread people out, so that you don't have 20, 30, 40, or 50+ people all piled on top of each other plus the corpses.

Pawain · May 2022

I doubt we will the the pile again not because of stability issues but because the devs are stingy.

Since they said they can not make more spawn points in Destard, the best solution provided by a poster was to expand the fey invasion to another dungeon that we already have used.

dvvid · May 2022

I don’t really understand why they can’t make more spawn points. Previous dungeons with this kind of event had mobs throughout the entire dungeon. Why not Destard? Maybe they should have chosen a different dungeon if Destard had this issue. Disappointing.

ForeverFun · May 2022

JenniferMarie said:

ForeverFun said:

Until the underlying issues are fixed which led to the stability issues, I doubt very much you'll see the "instant respawn" pile turned back on.
I never said I wanted the "instant respawn pile" turned back on - I suggested in the other thread having numerous spawn points:

First Level - the Dragon Pit, the southeast corner where the Platinum/Crimson Drakes and Water Elementals spawn, the northeast corner (champ spawn area), and further up the west side near the entrance to the second level

As well one spawn point on the second level and one on the third.

This would spread people out, so that you don't have 20, 30, 40, or 50+ people all piled on top of each other plus the corpses.

I read this below quoted part of your message to mean you wanted instant-respawn as was the case for the 36 hours of the event, just in multiple locations. The kill rate is related to the drop rate, which is related to the respawn rate. I doubt we'll see that again anytime soon.

"then just put multiple spawn points throughout the dungeon that spawn the way Destard did the first 36 hours of this event."

I doubt that is possible due to the reasons and speculation as mentioned previously.

Also, as an experiment, if you got to Atlantic, walk to a place which has no spawn or other visible action. Still today, you'll be lagging beyond playability. I get a freeze every 2 seconds just walking around, as well as rubber banding. That's with particle effects = no (or the more useful Particle Effects = Player/target), with no other visible activity for at least a screen.

A problem is this dungeon (as apparently are others) are hosted on a single server, and that server appears to be saturated.

dvvid · May 2022

If the scripters in the piles didn’t lag the entire dungeon, I’d have less of an issue with the event. But since it ruins it for everyone, the suggested message is start scripting and join the pile. Although seems like the piles are too saturated even for more scripters at this point.

Lord_Frodo · May 2022

Seth said:

@ Mariah @ Rorschach
So forum banned players can return to post by setting up a new account?

Each Master Account gets a log on to the forums, so if one Master gets banned then another Master can log in with a different user name

Yoshi · May 2022

Seth said:

Yoshi said:

Seth said:

They added gear change cool down in EC so as to match CC players.

Then they should remove auto follow in CC so to be on par with EC.

"this is incorrect,
instant gear change was added to CC, at the same time it was requested to add a cooldown to both clients on gear change, the cool down was added to both clients intentionally to prevent a range of issues"

Keep telling lies and forwarding your agenda.

Kyronix said:
This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance.

Thread:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/2373/undress-dress-macro-addition-to-classic-client

“you highlighted the first part, not the bit about maintaining balance, the delay I am sure is intentional, it was requested, from memory, there was a short period where you could insta swap between clothing on test on CC.

No need to resort to calling someone a liar

on the topic of removing the follow feature from CC to increase parity between both clients, i don't have a problem with it, it's only ever used for multi-clienting, (which isn't illegal)”

popps · May 2022

Pawain said:

popps said:

Mariah said:

This behavior, whether using multiple characters or not, is harassement and should be reported as such. Following you around the dungeon to spoil your game play is, and always has been, against the rules.
It sounds as if they were using the CC 'follow' command and you were the target of the command.

It helps if your journal clearly shows that you have requested them to stop.

This behavior, whether using multiple characters or not, is harassement and should be reported as such.

I am sorry to say that, in the past, I have reported suspected in-game behaviour against Ultima Online's TOS and this, in regards to the same characters, and yet, regardless of my repeated reports, I have kept seeing the same characters continuing the same behaviour in the same dungeon...

I need to conclude that, either my reports were found as baseless in my suspect that they were being played against the TOS OR, that, regardless my reports, for reasons beyond my knowledge, no action was taken against them...

Of course, I have no clue which of the 2 holds true... I can only say that I saw multiple characters being used, to my judgement, in a way that was against the TOS, reported them multiple times, and kept seeing those characters playing out with that same pattern after my reports.

A GM probably talked to them and they responded.

I have 3 monitors. I could have all my accounts doing something and if I had fast reflexes and the coordination of a 60 yr old instead of a 100 yr old, You may think I was a bot.

The thing is, that those 3 Sampires were really playing out synchronized with one another, at least to my opinion.... and 2 of them were always on trail of a leading one...

Sure, the player controlling the leading Sampire was very likely at the keyboard but my report was not about AFK scripting but, rather, about using third party utilities to control, with the stroke of 1 key, 3 characters at once which, regardless whether the player is there pressing the keys, is, to my understanding, against the TOS (multi-something ?) ....

Of course that the player responded to the GM.... he was there... the issue of the page, was not AFK but, as I said, suspected control of 3 accounts with Third Party utilities (too much sunchronized with one another to be controlled by 1 player individually, to my opinion...) in order to have all 3 accounts respond to the same one keys pressed.... something that, I understand, is against the TOS....

Seth · May 2022

Yoshi said:

Seth said:

Yoshi said:

Seth said:

They added gear change cool down in EC so as to match CC players.

Then they should remove auto follow in CC so to be on par with EC.

"this is incorrect,
instant gear change was added to CC, at the same time it was requested to add a cooldown to both clients on gear change, the cool down was added to both clients intentionally to prevent a range of issues"

Keep telling lies and forwarding your agenda.

Kyronix said:
This is to increase parity between the functionality between both clients as well as maintain balance.

Thread:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/2373/undress-dress-macro-addition-to-classic-client

“you highlighted the first part, not the bit about maintaining balance, the delay I am sure is intentional, it was requested, from memory, there was a short period where you could insta swap between clothing on test on CC.
No need to resort to calling someone a liar

on the topic of removing the follow feature from CC to increase parity between both clients, i don't have a problem with it, it's only ever used for multi-clienting, (which isn't illegal)”

You said:, "this is incorrect,"

I am correct to say that first and main reason is to provide parity, and offers solid evidence. Who cares if there are other reasons if my one reason is correct.

Seth · May 2022

Seth said:

Let's say if u pissed off someone, it is proven possible that they can easily get even 10 characters to auto follow u and shoot arrows or cast fast fire ball spell. So you can't play at all.

Multi-client and auto follow.

EJ is fine, since fireball is fast and require low magery.

So sad for a paid game. This was not the reason why I signed for this game.

correction,

I am not sure if this possible but I was referring to multi-boxing and auto-follow being a very disruptive game play method. We already know MB is illegal and if it works during auto follow then it's worse.

Estel_Randir · May 2022

On a final note. In the CC you cannot hold down a target macro (to spam it) with AI included and hit the next mob that spawns with AI every time because it is a toggle. When I say every time, I am referring to back to back to back instant spawns within seconds of each other. You can have a separate key for AI and one for spamming a target macro. But you would have to be superhuman to sit for hours and do the following: I have sat in game for hours, watching, and competing against archers who AI kill a spawn within a tenth of a second of spawning, turn around AI and kill the next spawn within a tenth of a second of spawning and they are killing these mobs within a period that is not humanly possible to continually do by having a 2 macro setup. There is obviously something else going on. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to legally do what I am seeing with any consistency. And I have tried. And that is all I have to say on the matter, other than it gets old.

Arroth_Thaiel · May 2022

Estel_Randir said:

...In the CC you cannot hold down a target macro (to spam it) with AI included and hit the next mob that spawns with AI every time because it is a toggle. When I say every time, I am referring to back to back to back instant spawns within seconds of each other...

You are correct.
You cannot do this in CC.
You cannot do this in CCUOA.
You cannot do this in EC.

Estel_Randir said:

...because it is a toggle.

Estel_Randir said:

There is obviously something else going on. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to legally do what I am seeing with any consistency.

Estel_Randir said:

...it gets old.

Yes.

McDougle · May 2022

The continued silence from the developers is a joke at this point..

vortex · May 2022

McDougle said:

The continued silence from the developers is a joke at this point..

True

Yoshi · May 2022

Pawain said:

I would like to see this in fel tho. Those sets of 5 Gargoyles will be wiping all of you out on 2 seconds if they can take down the paras in Destard in 1 second.

Open the hole back up!

"All the scripters in the pile would be killed with 1 conflag potion, (with 91 alchemy) which is a normal fel template, have done it before, easy gold, don't even need to cast any spells"

username · May 2022

I posted this in the other thread but I will post it here too since it's relevant:

I would also like to make it abundantly clear: This cheating is not unique to Destard: it's been going on since Doom. Just because people are standing still this time don't be fooled... On Atlantic specifically there were the same dozen sampires running around 24/7 killing stuff the entirety of Doom, Khaldun, Deceit, Fire Dungeon, Hythloth ToTs: https://forum.uo.com/discussion/9597/anything-going-to-be-done-about-the-sampires-running-on-atlantic-hythloth-24-7#latest

Stay vigilant.

Skittlez1337 · May 2022

Pawain said:

keven2002 said:

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Yep. I ran into Atlantic Destard last night around 11 PM PST on my Macer, and all three levels were completely dominated by scripters. The Devs just need to flat out release Sudiva into Destard every now and then so she can clean house of all the afk scripters.

dvvid said:

All day and all night scripting in Destard on Atlantic. Great event.

Estel_Randir said:

@ Kyronix. The point to the developers (in case it got lost in sidetracks) is a large portion of players are sick of trying to compete for drops in rather limited spawn areas versus single players who are running 3-5 accounts - a large portion of whom clearly seem to be doing so illegally. It is not just one person doing this, I see multiple people doing this day in and day out. You, the developers have created roughly only 3 small areas in the entire dungeon that are worth fighting in. So these players are attempting to monopolize the spawns. Some of them then set up vendors houses outside the dungeon to sell the drops so they can carry the cash back to whatever shard they came from. They do this on my shard.

@ Kyronix - Are you paying attention? The scripting is getting out of hand. If you guys can only make the spawn work in those static locations and you can't do anything about the people multi-boxing just open Fel. What's the harm at this point?

Yes this kinda. Fix the problem in Tram where the event is. Too many conspiracy theorists who think punishing legit players is fixing the problem.

I would like to see this in fel tho. Those sets of 5 Gargoyles will be wiping all of you out on 2 seconds if they can take down the paras in Destard in 1 second.

Open the hole back up!

My favorite when trammies think they have a clue about PvP. Let me enlighten you, why do you never see groups of multiboxes at the gate or defending spawns? It’s because they suck, any mage that is competent would just use fields to pick that group apart. I was at a fel em event I killed a group of 9 of them with ease. This problem would never happen in fel, because pvpers would always take the PvP before the PvM.

McDougle · May 2022

This would indeed happen in destard under the current setup do to poor design and application close your eyes and imagine all of the spawn popping up in one spot....

Theo · May 2022

McDougle said:

The continued silence from the developers is a joke at this point..

They literally can’t afford to ban players at this point. It’s super simple to find the scripters if you wanted.

There are plenty of ways to automate the identification of a number of scripted problems.

dvvid · May 2022

They gave this event to the scripters. Great.

username · May 2022

dvvid said:

They gave this event to the scripters. Great.

Psst... they've given them all to scripters. Just the last few were a bit less noticeable.

keven2002 · May 2022

Estel_Randir said:

On a final note. In the CC you cannot hold down a target macro (to spam it) with AI included and hit the next mob that spawns with AI every time because it is a toggle. When I say every time, I am referring to back to back to back instant spawns within seconds of each other. You can have a separate key for AI and one for spamming a target macro. But you would have to be superhuman to sit for hours and do the following: I have sat in game for hours, watching, and competing against archers who AI kill a spawn within a tenth of a second of spawning, turn around AI and kill the next spawn within a tenth of a second of spawning and they are killing these mobs within a period that is not humanly possible to continually do by having a 2 macro setup. There is obviously something else going on. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to legally do what I am seeing with any consistency. And I have tried. And that is all I have to say on the matter, other than it gets old.

This. I agree 100%. I've tried a bunch of different macros in CC to try to figure out how to essentially auto-toggle AI every single shot and then apply that to targeting stuff and be able to essentially hold down a button to spam it (like holding down a button to cast wither) so I can actually hit something. To my knowledge it's not feasible using CC.

I am starting to get extremely frustrated by the lack of communication from Kyronix who is normally pretty good when we are dealing with an actual problem like we have with Destard. It's almost like they aren't even trying anymore. It kind of reminds me when someone gives their 2 week notice at your job... they are technically stilled getting paid and they might produce some work in that time but good luck having them fix any issues with that work.

Seth · May 2022

They can stop the event and decide what to do next. There is no fun for most of us except for scripters if status quo.

keven2002 · May 2022

Seth said:

They can stop the event and decide what to do next. There is no fun for most of us except for scripters if status quo.

Sadly I agree (at least from ATL point of view). It's a pretty huge let down for me considering that I literally was looking forward to a treasures event since January... the first couple days was fun because everyone was rewarded but now it's such a grind to actually get drops (forget about getting much from the scripter pile) with things either being too far spread out (level 1) or level 2 being abandoned because there are 2 paragon shadow wyrms.

That excitement I've had with every other treasures event is not there for Destard; the Devs have geared it towards scripters/bots to the detriment of those that actually enjoy killing stuff to earn drops. On top of that, there is a total lack of communication from the team which tells me they really do not care what we think. This is one of the few events I can remember where the feedback was mostly negative with only a few people saying it's fun.

popps · May 2022

Theo said:

McDougle said:

The continued silence from the developers is a joke at this point..

They literally can’t afford to ban players at this point. It’s super simple to find the scripters if you wanted.

There are plenty of ways to automate the identification of a number of scripted problems.

They literally can’t afford to ban players at this point.

I fail to understand, though, why those bans were not done, in large numbers, to send a clear message out to all UO players to follow strictly the TOS rules, when Ultima Online had a players' base large enough to be well capable of absorbing those account lost....

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This Is Really Getting Old

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