Treasures of the Fey Feedback

Feigr · May 2022

Khyro said:

Feigr said:
It's not a slope. It's an MMO. That's part of running an MMO. Every MMO changes the meta and chases it. That's the model. Violet brought up other games as argument. I don't think it's a good argument because this MMO doesn't do the same thing.

I've never said "just make a" anything to anyone. I'm not complaining either. I'm just stating my opinion and perspective. To me, I had more fun the first couple of days. That's my take.

I didn't mean to imply you said that to anyone, just that a lot of others whining right now have said that.

Meta's exist in all MMOs, but I would say in most MMOs the Meta is a lot more driven by pre-defined classes and easier to balance. Any "class" in UO is player made and there are endless combinations of them.

Sampires are meta for a lot of content, how do you deal with that without ruining the class? They have added anti-life leech mechanics and there has been some anti-armor ignore mobs as well. It's very difficult to balance without outright killing a playstyle completely and then you have a lot of angry people.

Tamers can be tamers, or they can be mage tamers, or they can be spellweaving mage tamers, or they can be archer tamers, or they can be bard tamers, etc. You can't make a change to pets/taming without affecting all of those playstyles at once, and to varying degrees of potency.

This is going to get more off-topic, but Sampre to me isn't the problem. It's that you need a sampire to melee monsters at all. Balancing isn't always about removing the viability of one thing. Sometimes it's bringing something else up.

Like thieving could get drops from chests or stealing.

Fishing could get drops in the dungeon.

Parrying could be buffed.

Egg to ingot conversion could cost less so a person doing that method is getting similar rates for effort.

Paragons that get dropped on tamers could have a scaling drop rate depending on how long the paragon was fighting. Similar to the honor mechanic.

Merus · May 2022

MsScarlett said:

I don't know, I just feel like drops should be across the board sort of equal. If an archer can get x amount then a tamer should be as well. I should not have to create a whole other character or adjust game files to be able to participate in the event. My monthly sub price is the same as everyone else.

While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree with this.

Players who put in the time to optimize their template and gear for maximum efficiency shouldn’t be artificially limited by players who aren’t willing to do the same. Yes, you pay the same sub and have the same opportunity to put in the same effort to maximize your characters… if you choose not to that’s fine, but you shouldn’t expect the same reward.

Pawain · May 2022

Khyro said:

Feigr said:
It's not a slope. It's an MMO. That's part of running an MMO. Every MMO changes the meta and chases it. That's the model. Violet brought up other games as argument. I don't think it's a good argument because this MMO doesn't do the same thing.

I've never said "just make a" anything to anyone. I'm not complaining either. I'm just stating my opinion and perspective. To me, I had more fun the first couple of days. That's my take.

I didn't mean to imply you said that to anyone, just that a lot of others whining right now have said that.

Meta's exist in all MMOs, but I would say in most MMOs the Meta is a lot more driven by pre-defined classes and easier to balance. Any "class" in UO is player made and there are endless combinations of them.

Sampires are meta for a lot of content, how do you deal with that without ruining the class? They have added anti-life leech mechanics and there has been some anti-armor ignore mobs as well. It's very difficult to balance without outright killing a playstyle completely and then you have a lot of angry people.

Tamers can be tamers, or they can be mage tamers, or they can be spellweaving mage tamers, or they can be archer tamers, or they can be bard tamers, etc. You can't make a change to pets/taming without affecting all of those playstyles at once, and to varying degrees of potency.

Since day 1 there is very little spawn in the 2 Water ele areas and the spawn area. Now there is not much in the large entry area. Sounds like they can not increase those areas, so the pile worked great when it was there. Now you can only find decent numbers of spawn at the ramps which was the same on day 1.

If you don't like the pile you can kill stuff in the rest of the dungeon.

I have seen no tweeks other than removing the pile. We had fun doing the pile, they should bring it back and lower the drop rates. A lot of players had fun there. At least we could kill things.

Our Sampires could target in the pile, I have no idea how they were doing it, I tried multiple templates on it.

MsScarlett · May 2022

Violet said:

I didn't see you be vocal on the forums about not getting as many drops during Hythloth as others were. The discrepancy has always been there and may be why they tried to introduce eggs as an alternative. Only other way to do this would be to create artificial limits on drops "10 max per hour" and that itself would make a whole lot of people unhappy too.

I am not getting near as many as Hythloth. You say I have not been vocal, however you are not in the same alliance therefore you really can't say how vocal I was in game. Sorry I don't have as many posts under my belt as you do, doesn't make my point or feelings less valid.

drcossack · May 2022

Khyro said:

Feigr said:

Violet said:

MsScarlett said:

I don't know, I just feel like drops should be across the board sort of equal. If an archer can get x amount then a tamer should be as well. I should not have to create a whole other character or adjust game files to be able to participate in the event. My monthly sub price is the same as everyone else.

Sadly they have never been. There is always be a meta in every game. A class or skill set that performs above others for a task. People min/max to achieve the best use of their time. Past treasures events it was sampires. First two days it was necros/spellweavers. Now it's changed again.

I didn't see you be vocal on the forums about not getting as many drops during Hythloth as others were. The discrepancy has always been there and may be why they tried to introduce eggs as an alternative. Only other way to do this would be to create artificial limits on drops "10 max per hour" and that itself would make a whole lot of people unhappy too.

Other online games will swap the meta or at least chase it much better. Complaining about the existing meta is healthy IMO.

It's a slippery and dangerous slope. Just look at the whining by some people on day 1-2 of the event by Sampires when the "piles" were active. They were complaining they couldn't get "70 drops an hour" anymore with their sampires because casters were useful for once. It's also very difficult to balance the meta in UO when you can literally put any skills together that you want.

It's a bit humorous though, a lot of these people whining were the same people that would say "just make a sampire" when other classes complained during previous treasures events. The shoe was on the other foot, and they were demanding changes instead of wanting to adapt.

On Day 1 when Origin first got it, I used my tamer (at the start), only to discover that pets were all but useless. Later that day, the pile/grinder method was discovered & people took advantage, me included. I optimized it further on LS by adding necromancy to the template. In 2 days of farming on LS, I was able to turn in 605 drops (with potions.) Could I have used a more optimal spell than earthquake? Probably. But it was more than capable of getting the job done.

Leaving lag issues, scripting, and server crashes out of it, why should players be punished for finding the most optimized ways to do content? Because that's exactly what happened. Sampires AND mages were able to farm Destard. Tamers could too, they just had to be a little creative with how they pulled it off. The devs could have fixed the lag/server issues without fixing the way players farmed their drops.

ForeverFun · May 2022

Violet said:

The problem came with server stability. Altantic crashed. On Chesapeake the lag was so much that the bag I was putting my treasures drops in was not even updating the count. The medium population shards were encountering stability issues on weekday nights, had they allowed that to go into the weekend like it was, it would have been more than Atlantic that was down. And then everyone would have been unhappy. If it wasn't for that issue, I'm sure we would still be farming in huge piles.

The "server stability" issue called out is interesting. I wonder what the root cause of the stability issue is? Memory leaks? That's the type of thing that should be debugged and fixed (just like the lag at EM events). Broadsword should turn the "pile" back on test center, and reproduce the problem there, and fix the issue.

This weekend also provides time for broadsword to consider the financial/economic tradeoffs. They'd be able to assess the before/after glorious potion sales, for instance.

One thing seems certain -- the demand for less grind, more spawn and more action seems like clear feedback from this. The start of this event seemed to prove that in spades.

Another thing seems certain -- the scripters are adapting faster than the average player. How many of those are EJ accounts, that are effectively taking away from the paying customers?

Violet · May 2022

MsScarlett said:
I am not getting near as many as Hythloth. You say I have not been vocal, however you are not in the same alliance therefore you really can't say how vocal I was in game. Sorry I don't have as many posts under my belt as you do, doesn't make my point or feelings less valid.

I said vocal " on the forums", where feedback will be heard. I made absolutely no mention of in game. Your feelings are your feelings and I'm not invalidating them.

The discrepancy has been there since Deceit, that is merely stating a fact. People that work more efficiently or are willing to adapt are rewarded more. Again, a fact, that is how the treasures system has worked since Deceit (except now they added an additional way for people who struggle with Treasures events to get drops). Facts don't invalidate how you feel, they are just the reality of the situation.

During Hythloth many players played differently the first week of the event than they did later on. I saw little to no tamers on levels 3 and 4 at the beginning. They adapted and moved to more lucrative spaces as time progressed. However a tamer was still not pulling in 60-70 an hour (with potion) like a warrior in the same space was.

A lot of the anti-tamer mechanics in the current treasures events are due to how many tamers have played past content: squatting in a spot while invisible with the pet on guard. Now there are anti-squatting mechanics, anti invis mechanics and pets deal halved damage to paragons.

Khyro · May 2022

drcossack said:
On Day 1 when Origin first got it, I used my tamer (at the start), only to discover that pets were all but useless. Later that day, the pile/grinder method was discovered & people took advantage, me included. I optimized it further on LS by adding necromancy to the template. In 2 days of farming on LS, I was able to turn in 605 drops (with potions.) Could I have used a more optimal spell than earthquake? Probably. But it was more than capable of getting the job done.

Leaving lag issues, scripting, and server crashes out of it, why should players be punished for finding the most optimized ways to do content? Because that's exactly what happened. Sampires AND mages were able to farm Destard. Tamers could too, they just had to be a little creative with how they pulled it off. The devs could have fixed the lag/server issues without fixing the way players farmed their drops.

I mean, you can't just ignore "lag issues, scripting, and server crashes"... the stated reason for the changes were server stability issues (exactly those issues you want to ignore), not because people were getting "too many drops" or working together.

The side effect of the changes made for server stability was less dense spawn.

Despite what you and others may think, I don't think having servers crashing daily or unplayable lag is something they can just ignore for the 2 month duration of this event.

drcossack · May 2022

Khyro said:

drcossack said:
On Day 1 when Origin first got it, I used my tamer (at the start), only to discover that pets were all but useless. Later that day, the pile/grinder method was discovered & people took advantage, me included. I optimized it further on LS by adding necromancy to the template. In 2 days of farming on LS, I was able to turn in 605 drops (with potions.) Could I have used a more optimal spell than earthquake? Probably. But it was more than capable of getting the job done.

Leaving lag issues, scripting, and server crashes out of it, why should players be punished for finding the most optimized ways to do content? Because that's exactly what happened. Sampires AND mages were able to farm Destard. Tamers could too, they just had to be a little creative with how they pulled it off. The devs could have fixed the lag/server issues without fixing the way players farmed their drops.

I mean, you can't just ignore "lag issues, scripting, and server crashes"... the stated reason for the changes were server stability issues (exactly those issues you want to ignore), not because people were getting "too many drops" or working together.

The side effect of the changes made for server stability was less dense spawn.

Despite what you and others may think, I don't think having servers crashing daily or unplayable lag is something they can just ignore for the 2 month duration of this event.

There is no MMO player on the planet (regardless of game) who would say that the game's developers shouldn't fix those issues. But there's a way to do it without overly punishing players. I've done the event on 3 different servers. Of the 3, Atlantic was the worst, by far. Origin only really lagged because of the reapers, which prompted me to comment on it in gen chat.

keven2002 · May 2022

Khyro said:
I mean, you can't just ignore "lag issues, scripting, and server crashes"... the stated reason for the changes were server stability issues (exactly those issues you want to ignore), not because people were getting "too many drops" or working together.

The side effect of the changes made for server stability was less dense spawn.

Despite what you and others may think, I don't think having servers crashing daily or unplayable lag is something they can just ignore for the 2 month duration of this event.

This is true but go check out ATL right now. There is still MAJOR scripting going on with people still just hanging out in literally 2 spots on level 1 and that's also causing some heavy lag in those areas. The only thing that isn't going on right now (to my knowledge) is server crashes but that being said, how many other shards crashed before due to this? Another thing to think about is the decrease in lag/crashes really just due to the fact that people like me (who do not wish to run around Destard for 45min looking for stuff to kill for 10 drops) have simply stopped going because it's not worth my time?

It's hard to ignore the fact that this event, the dungeon & egg collecting, is a scripters paradise. Is everyone scripting the spam zone? Nope not at all... but those are the same people that were also not scripting on day 1 while getting great amounts of drops and having fun. The changes they made have 100% benefited scripters and been a detriment to all of those who choose not to. Same thing with the eggs which started being scripted like 3 days after it began in March. I didn't get on a soap box much about it because the rewards were purely decorative but now that they are worth turn-in points it's just one more avenue for bots to get easy money.

Yoshi · May 2022

“I have afk farmed enough drops for everything I wanted for personal use, and have no plans to return to trammel.
There were no buttons for me to press, so I have no plans to continue to monitor a game that doesn’t require interaction.

none of this nonsense happens in fel,

There were some idocs in fel today and it was a lot of fun. Compared to how much people complain about bots at trammel idocs, I can assure you nobody was able to use any bots.

we blew up 3 Brittania ships in the process

AND we even stopped the house placement scriptors and placed house legitimately.

who’s idea was it to have this event in trammel?”

Jepeth · May 2022

To return to the original purpose of this thread, I want to offer some feedback on the event as a whole. This feedback is both for the team for the current non-pile incarnation of the event and also for the players who read this and maybe can be persuaded to see the event a little differently than the last seven pages of Sturm und Drang suggest.

It’s going to be a long read. If the length of this bothers you then I suggest you leave the page and go play Ultima Online.

I’m going to speak about:

Rewards
Location
Mobs
Eggs
Lessons for the next one

Rewards

This is a strong event for rewards. No doubt this is why people reacted so forcibly about the original drop rate potential of the pile. The Treasures of Ice event showed us that if the rewards aren’t super appealing there will be only so much time people devote to these experiences. Their novelty isn’t enough anymore: good rewards make for a good time.

As always the Book of Lore story with new art is my favorite reward. Someone earlier in this thread compared these events to one-off mobile game updates but through this lore you can see the larger connection to the game’s story. These books are such a steal at a drop per page.

I love the hell out of the decorative plinth. It’ll be the reward I claim the most of hands down. Decorative stones and marble counters are always popular items on vendors and these plinths with their slightly reduced footprint are excellent.

The mud doesn’t appeal to me, personally, but I know all the goblins on my shard are super excited about it! That they do the slippy thing is fun.

The three reward title deeds are really fun! I’m all about those titles and I foresee every rares dealer/museum owner wanting that collector of curiosities title.

Love that birdhouse to go with some of the parrots from Easter. That it’s made from the remains of a Treefellow is gruesome/a nice touch.

The Cloak of Light/Wing Armor of Light is, if I’m not mistaken, a fulfilled request from someone here on the forum. They were asking for its return and the dev team came through; thanks for that.

Everyone loves the Serpent’s Jawbone.

The Certificate of Valor gives me some pause. It’s a reuse of the starchart art, which is fine, but it did not appear in the original email newsletter. I assume it replaces the ribbon that was featured in the letter. Why was the ribbon dropped? That’s a really lovely piece of art that is not available to players and seems to be used sporadically by the EMs as lockdowns.

Holy cats I love the Ankh of Devotion. More virtue content is ALWAYS appreciated but it’s so damn useful! That’ll be locked down in basically every house till the end.

Solaria’s Secret Poisons returns. Anything that gives the earring slot a little use is always welcome!

I’m pretty intrigued by the silverbranch bow and silver tipped cyclone. The invasion bane bows don’t fire very fast and have disappointing specials. For an ABC archer I think that bow would be a huge help in the right circumstances.

I can’t speak about the apron too much as I don’t pvp and others have posted about its use already. Lots of pvp folks have posted about their displeasure about the event not being in Felucca; fine, that’s your prerogative. But getting items included in these events for just you all has to feel kinda nice, right? As a roleplayer that virtue ankh and the virtue candles made me feel a bit noticed by the team for this event. Let’s all be thankful that our niches are still part of the plan!

I don’t use whips and don’t play fencers or macers and so I truly can’t speak about whether those are good or bad. The only thing I can say, however, is that it's a weapon with seven mods. That’s pretty good!

The Grimoire of Nature 30% SDI Fey Slayer and Weald Codex 50% SDI spellbooks are too expensive. I like them and may take them even though I don’t need them. But that’s a steep cost. There’s a real bottleneck with magery that our team tries to fix with more SDI. These books have utterly killed the business of crafting spellbooks like the Scrapper. I both want people to have affordable 50% SDI books like how so many of us got them from the Invasions but I also want there to be a meaningful reason to have Inscription. That’s a discussion for later, though.

I have saved the two best items for last. The Serpent Skin Quiver and the Serpent Skin Wing Armor are excellent. SSI, luck, DI, and a little more anatomy for a cost that is doable for most people over the course of the event. These are the two items that are going to be super popular after the event ends, much like the Morphius Epaulets. Getting 45 HCI and 100 DI and even around 200 stamina is fairly cheap and easy. Getting to 60 SSI is not cheap. I’m telling all the returning players in my alliance to not sleep on these.

Jepeth · May 2022

Location

We’ve had Deceit, Ice, Fire, and Hythloth for these events. And Tokuno, too, of course but that was a bit different. This dungeon presents significant challenges that the others did not have. Fewer choke points, more wide open spaces, and yes, a smaller spawn. I think we were going to get to Destard eventually for these events cause how many dungeons can these things really happen in? Or a better question: when will we start repeating locations? People are upset about the wide open space not being full of spawn, but would they be madder if this was happening in Wind with the terrible, terrible geography, narrow tunnels, and relatively small footprint? I like the Treasures events tremendously, but I worry that the team is boxing themselves in on them always being a dungeon.

Should the event be in Felucca? Sure, just turn off the champion spawn. Let the dungeon spawn tagged monsters like it does in Trammel. If PVPers want to compete for a less cramped space they can do so without the added bonus of champion spawn density. There’s a pretty toxic strain of thought on these forums that “Trammel players shouldn’t comment on PVP/Felucca issues” as if the game was completely bifurcated. Both facets are intermingled and these problems don’t exist in a complete vacuum.

One final thought in this section about ‘the pile.’ Far be it from me to trash a beautiful, spontaneous moment of emergent gameplay but it was clear that the pile was causing server issues. It got fixed during the week after Atlantic was crashing. If the pile went into the weekend where more people across the game could have done it on their servers I think we’d have seen even bigger issues. Yes, we all saw the promised land of the pile and got told we had to go back into the desert; it sucks. Let’s move on.

Mobs

Damn that paragon shadow wyrm is mean, eh? I can handle basically everything else on my archer or my dragoon as bushido and healing are still incredibly useful defense abilities. Time, spacing, slayers, and the right weapon resists make all the difference; until the wyrm hits you with a dump truck of necro spells. That para greater dragon is no slouch, either, with that hard-hitting dragon breath hit, but that can be mitigated. Ultimately, though, I actually think the paragons are a step down in difficulty compared to Hythloth. I’m sure others will disagree here, but I measure this in the utter carnage a para balron could inflict in a narrow tunnel versus the wide open space of Destard. You can escape things pretty well in Destard if you know your way around.

Eggs

Turning eggs in for ingots! Genius! I cannot overstate how good of an idea this is. I am one of these people who think that content in the game should be approachable by every play style. Not every build will be the build for every event, mind you, but there are people who only play thieves, only play crafters, only play tamers, only play janked up characters from the late 1990s that are still only about 40.1 in every skill. They’re not going to min-max these events but they should be included. If I want to RP my treasure hunter mage as a guy out in the wilderness finding these eggs for the Curio Collector so as to earn tangible rewards, then that makes me a hell of a lot happier than being forced into the same old archer/sampire/dragoon strategy for these events. Beyond that, it just gives us some options. I get burnt out on grinding these events in a couple of weeks because I feel compelled to get as many items as I can at the start. Giving us a calmer method of earning the rewards after we get a little burnt out on grinding is super, super welcome.

I would strongly, strongly suggest this design mechanic carry on into other Treasures events somehow.

Lessons for the next:

This is a much bigger event than the previous Treasures events but I honestly believe it’s the best one yet. I think the deco rewards are excellent, the weapons are good, the titles are great, and the gear rewards are great. There are downsides to the event, sure. The pile gave people an incorrect idea of what the event could be, but I’m sorry I believe most of the complaints people have had are borne out of greed. We all want an insane drop rate for minimal effort; it’s just not going to happen. For reasons both technical and philosophical the pile didn’t work. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that this is a much bigger event when previously a lot of the complaints were “these events are getting too samey! You’re wasting time on NL and not doing anything new!” We got really interesting new rewards, new mechanics to get rewards, challenging new foes to fight, and more.

For our team my advice would be the following:

Consider the eventual bottleneck that only having these in dungeons is going to produce. Part of the fun of these events is rediscovering our old dungeons. That will eventually run out.

Keep including items like the quiver/wing armor which reduces the cost of making a fully realized, and competitive character. They and the talisman don’t replace the cameo; that’s great. But they will help more people get useful characters built cheaply; that’s wonderful.

Keep including items like the ankh and lore book which tie the event to the game’s greater narrative. Ultima’s lore is rich and deep. Don’t assume people don’t want to read or don’t want to experience the story. I would love to see an even greater connection to lore in these events.

Keep including mechanisms like the egg turn-in to bring a greater diversity of characters into new content. Everyone can man a cannon on a high seas ship. Everyone can sit at the tavern and roleplay. Everyone can re-experience the game’s map looking for eggs. Not everyone can PVP. Not everyone can min-max a sampire.

I would, personally, like to see more spawn in Destard. But as I mentioned earlier, on a non-potion using ABC archer I can get about 18-20 drops in an hour, not even in my luck hour. This is in line with what my dragoon and archer could also do in Hythloth. I don’t really know if that’s on the high-end of what players can do or not but if the team chooses not to increase the spawn then we still have eggs we can gather. I’m personally okay with that.

Pawain · May 2022

Very nice write up, shoulda made a new thread so it is not lost here.

About the bow and quiver.

The 2 best quivers we have:

I agree with what you said for an ABC Archer.

The Serpent skin is quite good.

The SSI and a little damage increase are nice. it has luck on a cloak slot.

If you are building a basic archer from scratch it is a nice Quiver.

For my Archers:

I have an Archer tamer and an Archer bard .that wear Despicable.

The Archer/ Bard has 804 points 4 x 120 bard Chiv, Arch, Tact
No Anatomy.
So the new quiver is not an option for him. It would just give SSI and luck.

The Tamer/Bard has Anatomy.

So to serpent skin is an option. I would decrease Anat by 5 and increase Archery by 5.
He also uses the +5 dex, so I would have to either lose str or intel or get more dex on my suit.
He also uses the HCI so I would have to use the ear rings with HCI.

If he switches he would have less str or intel, have 5 more SSI and have 125 luck.
So it would cost me some gold to upgrade his suit by 5 dex.
He is already at 60 SSI with the town buff.

I do have an archer that is put together from soulstones. He has Arch, Tact, Anat, SS, Necro, chiv focus.

I did take him to another shard and did a Shrine Battle with him. I was hoping Animate Dead would help distract foes, but the dead just walked around, they dont work at shrine battles.

I would Have to add Bushido to him and remove some things. He is just using a basic quiver so the new one would be good for him. Except he can not travel with it... So would be dumb for me to build him around shard bound items. He is my traveling Archer. So he will not get one. Kinda bummer since I wasted time building him in my head.

The Weapons:

The Bow
It is a Yumi so it needs Bushido, to do double shot. None of mine have that.
But an ABC archer does, Fast speed and has Double Shot.
It does Fire damage.
I would guess most players imbue their weapons. But is is better than the runed driftwood bow IMO. It has Mana leech.
But it also has Life Leech and no stamina leech. So IMO archers should not be getting hit and if you do with this bow your stamina is going to drop. So you swing slower.

It does have bane so it could be good for peerless groups where you just stand and shoot.
Other than the bane you could imbue better.

I do use Bane bows on Lighthouse on toons that I just set to shoot. Also use them to kill Crazed Mage because I also just set them to shoot while I control other toon.

The Cyclone
Same setup as the bow. No AI.
Same description.

For bows and throwing weapons, I imbue those to fit the stats of the specific character.
I could not use either of these to full benefit.

But if you are making a new toon you could build around them.

The Whips.

The have more stats than you can imbue on.

My basic whip has DI, HML, HSL,HLL Then I can add 1 thing. HLD is a good choice.
Then you have the bonus hit fire area and hit harm.

They are 100% physical damage so they would make a very nice general use whip.
Whip is 1 hand with Whirlwind.

IMO the whips are the best designed of the weapons.

I would like to get a set of those for 300 points.

So to sum up the weapons in my opinion The Cyclone and Yumi are good for a target that you can stand and shoot at. Depending on target resist, usually AI is better. Bane is nice for high HP targets to finish them off.

If the distance weapons had the stats of the whips, they would be spectacular! But the devs are stingy with items.

The whips are well designed to make a general purpose 1 handed WW weapon.

Glad this lasts a long time. I need a lot of points.

drcossack · May 2022

Jepeth said:

Location
Should the event be in Felucca? Sure, just turn off the champion spawn. Let the dungeon spawn tagged monsters like it does in Trammel. If PVPers want to compete for a less cramped space they can do so without the added bonus of champion spawn density. There’s a pretty toxic strain of thought on these forums that “Trammel players shouldn’t comment on PVP/Felucca issues” as if the game was completely bifurcated. Both facets are intermingled and these problems don’t exist in a complete vacuum.

The problem is that the anti-pvp crowd wants Fel completely removed...or, at the very least, they want the ONE exclusive reward (powerscrolls) added to Tram. I don't see the point of that when they already have over 90% of the game's content in the "safe" ruleset. Comparatively, the pvp'ers have gotten NOTHING in all the time I've been playing this game. In Publish 25, we got a bunch of pvp changes (that are still in place to this day), the biggest of which was eliminating 5/6 mage casting. In more recent years, we got the flop of a system known as VvV. It was implemented (poorly) and nothing has been done with it since. How many years has that been?

As far as turning off the champ spawn if this was added to Fel: Why? It might be the "easy mode" way to farm drops, but you'll still have to work for them, in a different way: fighting pvp'ers.

You're correct, Trammel players should not comment on something they don't participate in. The pvp'ers, however, HAVE to participate in pve content...which, by itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it's never been the primary focus of our play time.

There are people in this game who RP. There are people who decorate their houses. There are people who log in just to socialize & chat with people they've known for years. In the case of the first two, how many people (who don't participate in those aspects of the game) feel the need to comment on them? Not very many, if anyone does it at all. It's no different for Fel & pvp - the people commenting on it may live there, but that doesn't mean they play there. Their opinion about Fel/pvp means nothing.

Yoshi · May 2022

“This @Jepeth guy
why would ANYONE hunt in fel destard where there is even a chance of being PKed if there was no champ spawn??

were you not here for the hythloth event? No champ spawn in fel, no reason to goto fel dungeon. Dungeon did not get visited. There was sometimes 1 guy on Atlantic there (N1ghtmare).

No wonder people have a ‘toxic’ opinion that trammel players shouldn’t comment on fel.

You’re 100% example of part of the problem. This event has been a disaster because someone somewhere up the line has listened to someone like you. Give yourself a pat on the back for job well done”

keven2002 · May 2022

Good morning @Kyronix . Decided to check Destard this morning at 6:30am on ATL just to see if maybe I could get some drops in the "spawn zone" and it's already being camped by the bots. When you get a second you should really go check it out.

Want an easy test? Do like I did, cast stone wall between the bot pile and the spawn and watch how the mobs are perfectly safe with nobody actually running through my walls to go kill the target but as soon as the wall drops; boom the target is dead within .01 seconds.

Image: https://forum.uo.com/uploads/editor/s1/8wi7bnv4ez42.png

I think the bots have had enough of a leg up on people that actually want to play so it is now time to open up Fel dungeon.

Others who want to complain about Fel being too easy to get drops from the spawn (likely the same ppl who complained about drops being too easy day 1) do not need to go to Fel if they think it's too easy. Those people are free to stay in the safety of the Tram scripter sanctuary and loop the AI/Target Hostile macro in EC.

McDougle · May 2022

keven2002 said:

Good morning @ Kyronix . Decided to check Destard this morning at 6:30am on ATL just to see if maybe I could get some drops in the "spawn zone" and it's already being camped by the bots. When you get a second you should really go check it out.

Want an easy test? Do like I did, cast stone wall between the bot pile and the spawn and watch how the mobs are perfectly safe with nobody actually running through my walls to go kill the target but as soon as the wall drops; boom the target is dead within .01 seconds.

I think the bots have had enough of a leg up on people that actually want to play so it is now time to open up Fel dungeon.

Others who want to complain about Fel being too easy to get drops from the spawn (likely the same ppl who complained about drops being too easy day 1) do not need to go to Fel if they think it's too easy. Those people are free to stay in the safety of the Tram scripter sanctuary and loop the AI/Target Hostile macro in EC.

Again I say yes open fel but bring ps dropping champ to tram at same time..

Yoshi · May 2022

McDougle said:

Again I say yes open fel but bring ps dropping champ to tram at same time..

"So everyone can move their afk char on the altar on tram and get constant supply of 120 powerscrolls?"

Seth · May 2022

Yoshi said:

No wonder people have a ‘toxic’ opinion that trammel players shouldn’t comment on fel.

Trammel players "need not" comment on Fel if they don't play in Fel. What is so "toxic" about this?

Well, sure, you can ask Trammel players to give Toxic comments about how Fel should be played, even if its none of their business since they don't play there.

Calling all Trammel players, please proceed to talk about Fel.

MsScarlett · May 2022

So after being told that if I was not getting drops that I should modify my game play in order to do so, I decided to go where the archers were congregated on their own pile area. You know where they stand and one shot everything before heading down to level 2. Of course, everything gets killed faster than I can tell my animal to all kill so instead I tell him to all guard me while I drop earthquakes. First thing is someone yells for me to get out of their area and same person then asks if I am multi boxing. I am one person with one animal and die plenty without needing to multi box whatever that means. I even try to be of assistance by when they got knocked off their swampy and the swampy dies I try to rez sometimes you can tell when someone is scripting or afk just by the fact they don't respond when you ask to sanction the rez over and over. Anyway, I get we were not suppose to get tons of drops. Where people said they got over 1000, I got 200 so yes way less than some templates, but I never got told to leave an area that was deemed not for me. I don't know the answer on how to fix things. This is strictly my feedback.
P.S- Tram player so I have no feedback on Fel haha

McDougle · May 2022

Yoshi said:

McDougle said:

Again I say yes open fel but bring ps dropping champ to tram at same time..

"So everyone can move their afk char on the altar on tram and get constant supply of 120 powerscrolls?"

You want constant safe drops we want ps seems a fair exchange (all my characters and pets are fully scrolled and I haven't bought a ps in years)

keven2002 · May 2022

McDougle said:

Again I say yes open fel but bring ps dropping champ to tram at same time..

This isn't a negotiation where Tram should get X if Fel gets Y. For all intent and purposes, Tram already has the spawn and the scripters are making out pretty well.

The difference here is that you are asking for something that has never been done before for these events (allow PS in Tram) which we know won't happen and trying to leverage that against my request (and many others) to just turn on Fel which is something that has been done for almost every single treasure event. Ultimately, I'm just asking for the ability to play the event while taking a risk of being pk'ed on top of the paragons that will not has the bot piles to quickly kill. The reward for that risk is PS.

One is realistic and the other is not.

Jepeth · May 2022

drcossack said:

There are people in this game who RP. There are people who decorate their houses. There are people who log in just to socialize & chat with people they've known for years. In the case of the first two, how many people (who don't participate in those aspects of the game) feel the need to comment on them? Not very many, if anyone does it at all. It's no different for Fel & pvp - the people commenting on it may live there, but that doesn't mean they play there. Their opinion about Fel/pvp means nothing.

So here's the problem I have with this line of thinking. What is the acceptable level of playtime to qualify someone for speaking about Felucca? Mind you we're discussing gameplay mechanics, here. These are systems in a video game, not societal abstraction.

Someone lives in Felucca, but that's not good enough: are they allowed to comment?
Someone runs a thief in VvV to farm the virtue and vice paintings: are they allowed to comment?
Someone farms powerscrolls in Felucca on a shard many of y'all consider dead: are they allowed to comment?
Someone began the game in 1998, but they've left and returned a bunch of times: are they allowed to comment?
Someone gathers resources in Felucca but as reds aren't out roaming around for lumberjacks: are they allowed to comment?

Does a person have to be one of the couple dozen PVPers on Atlantic to qualify for "speaking about Felucca" privileges? How much PVP is the right amount for you?

Turn this around a bit. You say 90% of the game is in Trammel. Are you partaking in literally every aspect of the game in Trammel so as to qualify to speak about its gameplay mechanics? No, because that'd be silly.

Yoshi said:

You’re 100% example of part of the problem. This event has been a disaster because someone somewhere up the line has listened to someone like you. Give yourself a pat on the back for job well done”

Thank you, next.

McDougle · May 2022

Maybe i was a happy pvm dog archer and pvp got my template destroyed maybe I'm the best pvper on the planet everyone is entitled to a opinion

keven2002 · May 2022

I decided to go to Origin after becoming frustrated with how scripted ATL was at 6:30am.

I was killing stuff for about 20min or so and was able to get 4 drops (admittedly this could be higher if I had more than just a mage on Origin) and there were not any bot / script piles setup at this point. I was looking to do an hour just to compare drop rates without a bot / script pile present but my time was cut short because there was a paragon shadow wyrm / weald protector / crystal lattice floating around which I have no chance at solo'ing so I just packed it up and decided to try to grab eggs. For the next 40minutes I went egg hunting and I was able to pickup 150 eggs by casually recalling around (no real rush). It was pretty laid back and easy but terribly boring... I also did not like needing to have all the eggs in my main pack and targeting each one doing it one at a time.

My takeaway from a very short sample size:

It's going to be tough sledding for anyone not botting/scripting on ATL because it's completely different than Origin is right now. There is the obvious botter piles auto killing everything so even 4 drops in 20min is tough for me with any of my chars (I use CC) but the bots are also running rails and picking up majority of the eggs... there is no way I can pickup more than maybe 20 eggs on ATL in 40min (and that is if I'm lucky). No matter how you slice it, ATL needs some sort of fix.

For a shard that isn't ATL things seem backwards with the current dungeon drop rate versus drop rate using eggs. Admittedly my setup was optimized (assuming sampire would be best) for the dungeon so I might have been able to get more drops in Destard BUT that also kind of proves my point even further. I need an optimized build with fully built suit/ slayers / skills etc to pull let's say 20 or so drops an hour in Destard. I'll even go as far as to say 25-30 drops. I was able to pull 15 drops in about 40min which I could have also optimized if we take that approach. So with a build that could literally be a new char with 100% LRC and 75magery (no other skill needed) just casually recalling around, I would be around 200-250 eggs an hour aka 20-25 drops. That seems very lopsided and like the risk vs reward relationship is broken.

Feigr · May 2022

Funny. I just got 10 in 5 minutes on Atl.

Don't judge my UI. I literally just created a character, bought a horse, and ran two spots on the route I've posted many times.

keven2002 said:

there is no way I can pickup more than maybe 20 eggs on ATL in 40min (and that is if I'm lucky). No matter how you slice it, ATL needs some sort of fix.

Archangel · May 2022

keven2002 said:

I decided to go to Origin after becoming frustrated with how scripted ATL was at 6:30am.

I was killing stuff for about 20min or so and was able to get 4 drops (admittedly this could be higher if I had more than just a mage on Origin) and there were not any bot / script piles setup at this point. I was looking to do an hour just to compare drop rates without a bot / script pile present but my time was cut short because there was a paragon shadow wyrm / weald protector / crystal lattice floating around which I have no chance at solo'ing so I just packed it up and decided to try to grab eggs. For the next 40minutes I went egg hunting and I was able to pickup 150 eggs by casually recalling around (no real rush). It was pretty laid back and easy but terribly boring... I also did not like needing to have all the eggs in my main pack and targeting each one doing it one at a time.

My takeaway from a very short sample size:

It's going to be tough sledding for anyone not botting/scripting on ATL because it's completely different than Origin is right now. There is the obvious botter piles auto killing everything so even 4 drops in 20min is tough for me with any of my chars (I use CC) but the bots are also running rails and picking up majority of the eggs... there is no way I can pickup more than maybe 20 eggs on ATL in 40min (and that is if I'm lucky). No matter how you slice it, ATL needs some sort of fix.

For a shard that isn't ATL things seem backwards with the current dungeon drop rate versus drop rate using eggs. Admittedly my setup was optimized (assuming sampire would be best) for the dungeon so I might have been able to get more drops in Destard BUT that also kind of proves my point even further. I need an optimized build with fully built suit/ slayers / skills etc to pull let's say 20 or so drops an hour in Destard. I'll even go as far as to say 25-30 drops. I was able to pull 15 drops in about 40min which I could have also optimized if we take that approach. So with a build that could literally be a new char with 100% LRC and 75magery (no other skill needed) just casually recalling around, I would be around 200-250 eggs an hour aka 20-25 drops. That seems very lopsided and like the risk vs reward relationship is broken.

Lol, I just saw you on Origin arriving at an egg farm just as I was leaving, hehehe. Happy egg hunting! (beats the drop rate, huh?)

oh, and now you beat me to that farm, hehehe!

keven2002 · May 2022

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

Archangel · May 2022

keven2002 said:

Decided to make a push on seeing how many eggs I could really collect in 30min and then gonna try to make a push on ATL to see how many drops I can get from Destard in 30min. I will post my results shortly

That would be most illuminating!

I stop my egg gathering so you get a chance at the whole spawn

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