Can throwers have more love (or less hatred) from developers?

Dear All, I want to talk about thrower weapons and artifacts. 
1- Treasure maps. 
You cannot  get any throwing weapon in Trammel, Felucca, Malas and Ilshennar. This is OK and reasonable. By lore Ilshennar should have some. There was old gargish city there, remember? But even when I am lucky to get ranger treasure map in Ter Mur I am getting ton of bows and crossbows. Warrior maps are OK - you can alter some weapon. But you cannot alter a bow.  Please remove archery ranged weapons from Ter Mur ranger maps. 
2- Message in Bottle. 
There are gargish ships, pirate captains give some gargish loot, but there are no artifacts for gargoyles in chests. Driftwood soul glaive will be good.
3 - BMV Ararat - shadowlords have artifact crossbow (bane) but not a Soul Glaive
4- Stygian abyss Medusa has a good artifact composite bow and no throwing weapon
5- Eodon - Aloron armor set is not alterable. 
Currently only usefull arties are Covetous Blight of Tundra  (lesser slayers, 100% cold) and Valkyrie Glaive. There are no throwing weapon for ninjia (like Yumi) and throwing has no impact on shuriken throwing (silly, yes?). Also throwers have no wooden throwing weapon. Boomerangs should be wooden.  Dont know if Fey slayer from gathering Evidence is good - cannot make Rouser to spawn a quest mob, even I killed lots of them. 

Proposition to add new artifacts to : Minions of Scelestus (book quest reward for killing tons of them is really so low!) and Night terrors.  
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Comments

  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited February 10

    It is tough as a Gargoyle to be fair, I've been building 4 over the last few months. On one level, they are a very basic character, and they don't need much to get going, you can get right into the game fast. on another level, when it comes to properly gearing them, it is hard.

    The inconsistency is really hard, but what is also hard is that most of the rewards/artefacts for Gargoyles are given out through top end play only.

    There are very limited ways of getting any decent armour as you level your character up.

    For me, it wasn't so much an issue, I have an entire veteran guild behind me helping me, but for a starter it would be pretty hard I think.

    I would like to see more selection, more updated stuff, and more cohesive equipment, and even sets of weapons etc, but then I'm like that across the board, for all gear and equipment, but yes, you really notice it on gargoyles.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited February 10

    I lost my ability to edit - to summarise gargoyles using Chess terminology, they have an opening game, and an endgame, but they have no middle game.

    I don't put what has happened to Gargoyles as lack of love, or hatred, to me they are just a system that has got left behind a bit, along with so many. They were implemented, they get forgotten about. To me, it is so important to maintain systems that are implemented. I do agree, they could use a bit of work to update them a bit, it doesn't have to be so much, like I say for all the old systems, just a tweak here and there would make them much more fit for purpose.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,904
    the fact that none of the throwing weapons have whirlwind attack is shameful ....
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,626
    Cookie said:

    It is tough as a Gargoyle to be fair, I've been building 4 over the last few months. On one level, they are a very basic character, and they don't need much to get going, you can get right into the game fast. on another level, when it comes to properly gearing them, it is hard.

    The inconsistency is really hard, but what is also hard is that most of the rewards/artefacts for Gargoyles are given out through top end play only.

    There are very limited ways of getting any decent armour as you level your character up.

    For me, it wasn't so much an issue, I have an entire veteran guild behind me helping me, but for a starter it would be pretty hard I think.

    I would like to see more selection, more updated stuff, and more cohesive equipment, and even sets of weapons etc, but then I'm like that across the board, for all gear and equipment, but yes, you really notice it on gargoyles.

    I think a whole lot of issues that many Gargoyles lament, to my understanding, would just go away overnight if way, but WAY more armor from Humans and Elves was to be altered for Gargoyle....

    The problem, to my opinion, is that the armor pieces that can be altered are way too few....
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,626
    McDougle said:
    the fact that none of the throwing weapons have whirlwind attack is shameful ....
    Indeed, the options for Throwing weapons are much limited as compared to other Combat skills...

    You have no double shot or double strike option either for Throwing while it is present for other combat skills....
  • GwenGwen Posts: 163
    McDougle said:
    the fact that none of the throwing weapons have whirlwind attack is shameful ....
    Archers also dont have whirlwind. Throwers have not so bad mystic arc. But it is for boomerang which is 6 tiles range. So it is worse than magic bow lightning.
    Gargoyles also have no Frenzied whirlwind weapon, But it is out of this topic scope. 
    popps said:
    Indeed, the options for Throwing weapons are much limited as compared to other Combat skills...

    You have no double shot or double strike option either for Throwing while it is present for other combat skills....
    Throwing is not a combat skill - it is even not included in special move mana cost reduction (200 skill points -5 etc..). 
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 690
    I don't play a garg at all, so the last thing I want is to start getting a 50/50 mix of garg stuff for everything. 
    I think
    whatever race you are completing content with should come into play across the board (for loot) rather than just a few events being race specific drops. I believe the "treasures of" events gives drops based on garg vs non-garg which I think should be the norm across monster drops/treasure chests/SOS chest/etc.

    popps said:

    I think a whole lot of issues that many Gargoyles lament, to my understanding, would just go away overnight if way, but WAY more armor from Humans and Elves was to be altered for Gargoyle....

    The problem, to my opinion, is that the armor pieces that can be altered are way too few....
    I'd agree that more things should be able to be altered. The only drawback to that is that gargs have 1 less armor slot (I believe no gloves equiv) but I'd just assume that slot wouldn't be able to be altered. 

    I think having more things being alterable and getting more race specific drops based on whatever toon you do stuff on, there wouldn't be much more effort needed to do anything.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,904
    gloves of feudal turn into kilt
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,626
    Gwen said:
    Throwing is not a combat skill - it is even not included in special move mana cost reduction (200 skill points -5 etc..). 
    Throwing is not a combat skill ?

    In what sense ?

    To my viewing, combat is anything that hits targets.... when a Thrower throws a weapon and hits a Target, they get into a fight, so how is that not considered a combat skill ?

    I do not get it.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 163
    keven2002 said:]
    I don't play a garg at all, so the last thing I want is to start getting a 50/50 mix of garg stuff for everything. 

    The only drawback to that is that gargs have 1 less armor slot (I believe no gloves equiv) but I'd just assume that slot wouldn't be able to be altered. 
    Same slot QTY for armor. kilt is as gloves.    But garg amulet (neck) and earrings (helmet) cannot be enhanced. 
    Also gargs have no clothing slots, so cannot use 3 more slots with arcane stones. This is not a big trouble anyway 

    I am not asking 50/50 for everything. But TerMur Tmaps should give gargish treasures. All other facets- let them be as they are now. 

  • GwenGwen Posts: 163
    popps said:
    Gwen said:
    Throwing is not a combat skill - it is even not included in special move mana cost reduction (200 skill points -5 etc..). 
    Throwing is not a combat skill ?

    In what sense ?

    To my viewing, combat is anything that hits targets.... when a Thrower throws a weapon and hits a Target, they get into a fight, so how is that not considered a combat skill ?

    I do not get it.
    The Mana Cost of each special move can be reduced if the warrior’s skills are high enough. Add up the skill points for Swords, Mace Fighting, Fencing, Archery, Parrying, Lumberjacking, Stealth, Poisoning, Bushido and Ninjitsu. If the total lies between 200 and 299, subtract 5 from the Mana Cost. If the total is 300 or more, subtract 10 from the Mana Cost.
    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/special-moves/
    Throwing is not included. 
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,626
    Gwen said:
    popps said:
    Gwen said:
    Throwing is not a combat skill - it is even not included in special move mana cost reduction (200 skill points -5 etc..). 
    Throwing is not a combat skill ?

    In what sense ?

    To my viewing, combat is anything that hits targets.... when a Thrower throws a weapon and hits a Target, they get into a fight, so how is that not considered a combat skill ?

    I do not get it.
    The Mana Cost of each special move can be reduced if the warrior’s skills are high enough. Add up the skill points for Swords, Mace Fighting, Fencing, Archery, Parrying, Lumberjacking, Stealth, Poisoning, Bushido and Ninjitsu. If the total lies between 200 and 299, subtract 5 from the Mana Cost. If the total is 300 or more, subtract 10 from the Mana Cost.
    https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/combat/special-moves/
    Throwing is not included. 
    I am just guessing here.... maybe just an oversight and Throwing was left out while it should have been put in being used for Combat like the included skills are ?

    I am just guessing here, as I said....
  • Throwers are very prominent among EM item hunters. Something tells me that this is because they have some advantages that haven't been highlighted in this thread.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,626
    Throwers are very prominent among EM item hunters. Something tells me that this is because they have some advantages that haven't been highlighted in this thread.
    I totally fail to see what these advantages might be for a Race/Skill with so few weapons and much harder options for armor as compared to other Races and Skills...

    Even as Tamers they cannot ride their Mounts....

    The only 1 advantage that I can think of, is the very few Flying paths available in the Abyss which, though, for a long time for some where not even usable because broken.....

    So, really, it looks odd to me to hear about advantages for Gargoyles Throwers....
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,904
    easy targeting and no waste of ammo soul glavine have range of 11 
  • ElvisElvis Posts: 20
    Why can’t gargoyle fly up wall with wings.  Too fat?  Why no flying carpet mount?
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 456
    Why can't they fly over a stream or a river that's a better one.  They can only fly were others can walk.  Does not make to much  sense to me.  Also, really the lack of different kinds of weapons.  Don't find many throwing weapons for sale.  Have to rely on the toxic sliths in Tel Mur for my inventory.  Don't really care too much for the special moves either.  Kind of a frustrating race to play.  Can fly while casting RC though and that is big advantage over other races that have to walk.  Have not tried a melee weapon on mine.  Throwing does not qualify to use best skill weapons.  Maybe, they might play better using melee weapons instead of throwing weapons.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,904
    My Pally/thrower is strong did very well in both deceit and ice now if only bushido worked properly with ranged weapons...
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 313
    Elvis said:
    Why no flying carpet mount?
    You're being facetious here but my mage character would love a flying carpet vanity mount.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 268
    edited February 11
    Arnold7 said:
    Have not tried a melee weapon on mine.  Throwing does not qualify to use best skill weapons.  Maybe, they might play better using melee weapons instead of throwing weapons.

    Garg Melee does not perform as well as Human/Elf melee do. Biggest reason is they can't ride a Swampy for 12-20% PvM Damage Reduction. Second is, they don't have very many good artifacts, or even Weapon Special combinations. Plus most Garg Macing weps don't inflict extra Stamina Damage. Garg Melee is flat out inferior to Human/Elf melee. My first Gargoyle char was a Swordsman/Paladin, before i switched him to Thrower/Paladin.

    While Gargoyles have less total slots than Humans/Elves, their armor does have much higher base resists to compensate for that. For the most part, they can quite easily reach all 70s Resists with just Exceptional/Imbued armor.
  • XrisXris Posts: 128
    popps said:
    Throwers are very prominent among EM item hunters. Something tells me that this is because they have some advantages that haven't been highlighted in this thread.
    I totally fail to see what these advantages might be for a Race/Skill with so few weapons and much harder options for armor as compared to other Races and Skills...

    Even as Tamers they cannot ride their Mounts....

    The only 1 advantage that I can think of, is the very few Flying paths available in the Abyss which, though, for a long time for some where not even usable because broken.....

    So, really, it looks odd to me to hear about advantages for Gargoyles Throwers....

    I'm curious as well. Is it just the range and flight that give it a boost in certain scenarios? Or is there something that's on the dl that I dont know? I have no gargs they dont look great on cc.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,127
    edited February 11
    When you have a group of Throwing Gargs, they do a lot of damage and fight from a distance.

    I got the correct weapons for Ice. My thrower did as well as he was Melle toon. Since they just had Anat, Tac,weapon skill. Neither could kill the 3 top paragons.  Distance toons need more SSI.  I think it is a fair trade off.  Learn how to play the build. A RC is great for a thrower.  I got over 100 garg pieces of Ice making each Garg suit twice.

    Build Jewels from 10SSI with 15HCI.  They are common and cheap unless I just made a buying run and bought the cheap ones.
  • VladimirVladimir Posts: 41
    Lets be honest here, we can ask and suggest all that we want here and aint going to happen!!!
    The Devs focus now are 100% into the Coming Soon (2025) new Shard, seems to me that they gave up on the prodo shards, they cant fix 1 bug without breaking 20 others, they cant fix VS, they cant fix EJ Gen Chat spammers, so lets forget about all this current bugs and lets make a new shard and hope that everyone start to play, so we can merge all 20+ shards into 6'ish and hope for the best.

    We players been asking the devs for years and years and years to address the current bugs and gave them ideas and all we hear is that will be on the next patch or soon or it is on the to do list.
    Can we ask the devs to show us the current "To Do List" ? and an ETA for it?.

    This topic is a perfect example, It is very hard to make a Garg suit, I think that Exodus is the only few places that drop some decent pieces, crafting garg pieces is a nightmare, convert existent human pieces into garg is another nightmare, some pieces work, some not, only few pieces facing some sort of direction and not other?? I mean why???

     
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 456
    The toxic liches to the east of Tel Mur give decent drops.  Mages can harvest them with a reptile slayer pretty easily.  Without a reptile slayer it's a little more work but not much. They also provide what you need to complete Tel Mur hunter's quest and the Tel Mur library quests.  Forgot the names of the quest givers but they are not hard to find.  Be prepared to cure poison, they have a pretty poisonous bite. 
  • XrisXris Posts: 128
    Pawain said:
    When you have a group of Throwing Gargs, they do a lot of damage and fight from a distance.

    I got the correct weapons for Ice. My thrower did as well as he was Melle toon. Since they just had Anat, Tac,weapon skill. Neither could kill the 3 top paragons.  Distance toons need more SSI.  I think it is a fair trade off.  Learn how to play the build. A RC is great for a thrower.  I got over 100 garg pieces of Ice making each Garg suit twice.

    Build Jewels from 10SSI with 15HCI.  They are common and cheap unless I just made a buying run and bought the cheap ones.

    Why are they preferred over an archer is I guess what I'm asking?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited February 11
    Xris said:

    Why are they preferred over an archer is I guess what I'm asking?

    Starting a Garg thrower is easy, no mount needed, no ammunition needed. They are ranged, and can stand away from EM event bosses, so stand an equal chance of getting something.

    Due to this, a lot of cross sharders, build them on every shard, to take part in all events. They are quick to knock up to an ok standard.

    But when you try to get to middle game, to play one properly on your own shard, or even end game, it is much harder, then you notice the lack of equipment and options for them.

  • Garth_GreyGarth_Grey Posts: 1,175
    Xris said:
    Why are they preferred over an archer is I guess what I'm asking?

    Their range with a soul glaive is 1 higher than any bow, and glaives don't run out of arrows.

    You and Several Others like this.


    Please make the Grizzled Mare a 5 slot mount, it's incredibly rare and deserves it.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,127
    Xris said:
    Pawain said:
    When you have a group of Throwing Gargs, they do a lot of damage and fight from a distance.

    I got the correct weapons for Ice. My thrower did as well as he was Melle toon. Since they just had Anat, Tac,weapon skill. Neither could kill the 3 top paragons.  Distance toons need more SSI.  I think it is a fair trade off.  Learn how to play the build. A RC is great for a thrower.  I got over 100 garg pieces of Ice making each Garg suit twice.

    Build Jewels from 10SSI with 15HCI.  They are common and cheap unless I just made a buying run and bought the cheap ones.

    Why are they preferred over an archer is I guess what I'm asking?
    Yes range and no arrows make a difference.  Souls Glaives are like a Composite Bow you need 60 SSI and 210 Stamina for make max speed like the composite.

    The weapon is metal so you don't need a fletching tool to reforge.

    So once you get the suit the normal hits are nice.  If you use slayers you can deal high fast damage when using 2 or more throwers. 

    Hardest to find really nice necklace and earrings.  The other pieces are easy to find and vendors they sell garg armor cheaper than others.
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    Pawain said:
    Xris said:
    Pawain said:
    When you have a group of Throwing Gargs, they do a lot of damage and fight from a distance.

    I got the correct weapons for Ice. My thrower did as well as he was Melle toon. Since they just had Anat, Tac,weapon skill. Neither could kill the 3 top paragons.  Distance toons need more SSI.  I think it is a fair trade off.  Learn how to play the build. A RC is great for a thrower.  I got over 100 garg pieces of Ice making each Garg suit twice.

    Build Jewels from 10SSI with 15HCI.  They are common and cheap unless I just made a buying run and bought the cheap ones.

    Why are they preferred over an archer is I guess what I'm asking?
    Yes range and no arrows make a difference.  Souls Glaives are like a Composite Bow you need 60 SSI and 210 Stamina for make max speed like the composite.

    The weapon is metal so you don't need a fletching tool to reforge.

    So once you get the suit the normal hits are nice.  If you use slayers you can deal high fast damage when using 2 or more throwers. 

    Hardest to find really nice necklace and earrings.  The other pieces are easy to find and vendors they sell garg armor cheaper than others.
    It's actually only 55 SSI and 210 Stamina (unless something has changed recently). I have a Garg thrower/Tamer that uses soul glaives. She started out life as an archer/tamer. But I made her a gargoyle because I can also move at mounted speed, with a 5 slot pet fighting. 
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • KyronixKyronix Posts: 957Dev
    Looking over the notes from the Treasures rewards thread I don’t recall any specific gargie stuff, and I’m not saying we’re going to Ter Mur buuuut might make sense to have some gargie stuff.  Especially after we meet, well... You’ll see. :)
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