Pet only powerscrolls

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Comments

  • TchallaTchalla Posts: 22
    Xris said:
    Tchalla said:
    Xris said:

    Anyone could go to origin and farm scrolls then flood the atl market with them. YOU could hold the market if you wanted. If I get pked spawning, I rez and go back. If they rez kill me I log off and try again later. Everyone here seems to agree ghost cams are probably the worste thing that's tolerated by the dev team. 120 scrolls have always required risk, and I DO here your issues. You should not have to see ghost cams outside every spawn, then have a PKer come that kills you with their scripts. They shouldn't move scrolls to tram, they should fix the problems that make getting them so unfair.
    You don't see the issue with a player or group of players having that much control in a video game meant for fun and entertainment? The whole power scroll system is broken, and it was made worse by making them usable for pets.

    I'm saying you could control it if you wanted to. But you dont, you want developers to give you easy access to end game items. I agree making pets use them was a bad idea. 
    No... I'm saying it shouldn't be possible for ANYONE to be able to have that much control over that desirable a commodity. It's not about me. I don't care if I get killed (I actually find the death graphics humorous). It's all about other players having that much control in a game.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,180
    Shard bound powerscrolls in Trammel spawns FTW!
  • TimTim Posts: 690
    Of course the elephant in the room is the cash sale web sites. You could get a transfer token for 2,000 sovereigns ($25) and go to a low population shard. Then you only have to hope not to be jumped and actually get the Power scroll you want. Or you could go to one of the many web sites and pay cash. At the moment a 120 wrestling is going for $6.95. Given the alternatives as they stand I'm not going to criticize anyone who wants to pay and play just please don't deal with that A-- hole Avatar. Last time I looked I counted 4 alternative. 

    The fact that they can be sold for real money explains why there are so few on VS.

    I and I think the majority of players would prefer not to deal with them but when the alternative is dealing with PKers and the guilds that own the real source, let me get my wallet.

    Power scrolls in Treasure chests was a good first steps but I still haven't seen a good argument agains opening up the supply to non Fel arias. Make them much harder in Tram or put them on the UO store but do something.

  • UrgeUrge Posts: 728
    I would have no problem in tram as long as it promoted group play. Somewhere in the area of an em event in terms of difficulty. Impossible to finish solo or just a couple players.

    Just adding them to current ilsh spawns does nothing but further encourage single play. 
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 379
    While it is uncomfortable to discuss, I think Tim hits the nail on the head. There is an alternative source for powerscrolls that plays hell with the supply and demand for them. 

    Pet only powerscrolls as the OP suggested would ease the pressure. Maybe an equitable solution is for full powerscrolls to remain coming from champion spawns, up to 110 powerscrolls to remain from Felucca treasure chests, and then pet only power scrolls available from horde and trove level Trammel treasure chests.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    edited June 2020
    I'm sorry, but I fail to see the logic in all content rewards being available regardless of play style.  There should be items in game that are available to certain play styles that aren't available to others.  This promotes group play and commerce.

    I absolutely detest BoDs.  Hate em!  I have fully skilled crafters on 4 or 5 shards... but I don't and won't do BoDs.  However, sometimes I find myself in need of a clothing bless deed... Fort powder... Runics...  I don't complain and whine that I can't get those items killing monsters.... I go and buy them on vendors.

    I'm not a super big fan of ships.  They are slow and clumsy... and cannon firing (while improved) is still overly tedious.  But I like having tritons on my tamers and some of the other decorative rewards.  Do I whine and complain that all the high seas rewards should be on other monster loot as well?  No.  I've supplied myself through a combination of doing the content, even though it isn't my favorite, and buying some when I see a good deal.

    Fel has power scrolls.  Playing in Fel often requires a playstyle and mindset that comes with much greater risk.  For those willing to endure (or those who enjoy) this playstyle there should be some unique reward.  No one is prevented from going to Fel, just like no one is prevented from doing BoDs or Pirates.  Why should we change the game just because someone wants the reward but doesn't like the content?  There are plenty of ways to mitigate the risks... get scrolls from T-maps, join a Fel guild, make a Fel alliance, build spawning characters on less populated shards.  The only real thing keeping the price of powerscrolls high is the relatively few players willing to take the risk.  But to complain that the price is high while at the same time saying you are unwilling to take the risk... wth people?  At the end of the day there is plenty of high value drops in the tram ruleset.  Go farm the roof for a while and sell the drops until you have enough to by the scrolls you want.
  • TchallaTchalla Posts: 22
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 490
    Yeah, i stopped trying.

    There is no point in trying to get someone so set on their point of veiw to see it from the other side.

    Maybe we should make a post about how all trammel droos should be moved to fel, like it was pre aos, bit they woukd just tell us to go play seige.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    Norry said:
    Yeah, i stopped trying.

    There is no point in trying to get someone so set on their point of veiw to see it from the other side.

    Maybe we should make a post about how all trammel droos should be moved to fel, like it was pre aos, bit they woukd just tell us to go play seige.
    Right... if Trammel ruleset is so great it shouldn't need any drops for people to play there... *eyeroll*
  • drindethdrindeth Posts: 24
    edited June 2020
    Pawain said:
    This is not PvP. They do not wait until you get to the boss. They pk you during the spawn then run around hoping to res kill you. When you leave they leave.
    It's just a player that likes to harass other players.  It should not be a playstyle in 2020s UO.
    that is why there is only one facet with fel rulesets. 

    not really a reason to take powercrolls out of fel tho. they were always suppose to be a risk v reward situation. you dont have to spawn to get scrolls. you can do multiples of other farmable trammel contents that will get you enough gold to buy them from the people who dont find it as annoying to be in felluca for pretty much the only reason to be there. thats just part of the uo "economy" pvpers are the hunters you are the tailor. they want your cloths you want their furs and meat.

    i dunno. i guess my point is its not really a broken system just because you dont feel like dealing with pvp because you want scrolls and think they are priced too high. there is so much of the game you can farm uncontested and get items worth way more than the scrolls. attain and sell these items then buy the scrolls.....  very easy solution that dosnt take the "fun" out of what other people are doing in a sandbox pvp area....

    edit: i just realized this thread is 3 pages long. my disclaimer is i didnt read past like post 5 and dont really plan on it. i claim stoned on this one if someone already said these things.
  • NorryNorry Posts: 490
    Pretty much. Even gave exampkes of what to farm to sell, and was accused in one way or another of scripting
  • TchallaTchalla Posts: 22
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase doesn't want to deal with it. And how do I know it's the majority? Look at how robust Trammel is... then look at how dead Fel is. It's not about me. I couldn't give two spits about it myself. I pay for the power scrolls. It has never been about me. It's about the people in charge catering to a distinct minority of players that have a history of griefing other players instead of doing the smart thing and placating a majority of players that prefer to not have to deal with mental children that take great pleasure in making other players miserable.


  • TimTim Posts: 690
    The economy argument is bull as long as there are web sites who's main product is Power scrolls. When enough of the player base would rather "pay to play" to make that a money making proposition there is a problem.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    Merus said:
    I'm sorry, but I fail to see the logic in all content rewards being available regardless of play style.  There should be items in game that are available to certain play styles that aren't available to others.  This promotes group play and commerce.

    I absolutely detest BoDs.  Hate em!  I have fully skilled crafters on 4 or 5 shards... but I don't and won't do BoDs.  However, sometimes I find myself in need of a clothing bless deed... Fort powder... Runics...  I don't complain and whine that I can't get those items killing monsters.... I go and buy them on vendors.

    I'm not a super big fan of ships.  They are slow and clumsy... and cannon firing (while improved) is still overly tedious.  But I like having tritons on my tamers and some of the other decorative rewards.  Do I whine and complain that all the high seas rewards should be on other monster loot as well?  No.  I've supplied myself through a combination of doing the content, even though it isn't my favorite, and buying some when I see a good deal.

    Fel has power scrolls.  Playing in Fel often requires a playstyle and mindset that comes with much greater risk.  For those willing to endure (or those who enjoy) this playstyle there should be some unique reward.  No one is prevented from going to Fel, just like no one is prevented from doing BoDs or Pirates.  Why should we change the game just because someone wants the reward but doesn't like the content?  There are plenty of ways to mitigate the risks... get scrolls from T-maps, join a Fel guild, make a Fel alliance, build spawning characters on less populated shards.  The only real thing keeping the price of powerscrolls high is the relatively few players willing to take the risk.  But to complain that the price is high while at the same time saying you are unwilling to take the risk... wth people?  At the end of the day there is plenty of high value drops in the tram ruleset.  Go farm the roof for a while and sell the drops until you have enough to by the scrolls you want.
    Go farm the roof for a while and sell the drops until you have enough to by the scrolls you want.
    The problem with that is, that the vast majority of those pkillers holding tight the Monopoly of Powerscrolls, "also", for the most part, have their PvM characters doing the Roof etc. etc.

    So, it is not like they need much of that anyways, because they get them on their own, likely...

    I am sorry, but really, at least to my opinion, the way that Powerscrolls have been added to Ultima Online I think has permitted to a small number of players to corner their market and, therefore, gouge their prices as up as they wanted, thus resulting in probably the # 1 cause to the ridicolous inflation that has plagued Ultima Online over the years and that has forced many players to absurd grinding to put together such ridicolously high amounts of gold needed to buy Powerscrolls at those artificially inflated price (because of a cornered market and a Monopolyin the hands of only a few players).

    Some players may have endured through such mindless, extensive and wearing grindings, but many many others may have not wanted to get through all of that and thus may have moved on to other games with the result that all of this, may have deprived Ultima Online of their subscriptions and, thus, of revenues much needed for its upkeep and enhancement.

    I am convinced that permitting to players to "corner the market" for any items, particularly if highly needed for gameplay such as Powerscrolls are, is extremely detrimental to the overall game because it may alienate those players who have to go through mindless, extensive and wearing grinding to put such high amounts of gold together to afford Powerscrolls purchase.

    And it may lose players and subscriptions to the game thus reducing its resources for maintainance and enhancement.

    That is why I insist on saying that alternate ways for players to get Powerscrolls should be made available, it is needed to "break" that Monopoly and cornering of the market of only a few players so as to bring prices down to more reasonable and affordable levels from the grandest majority of players.

    I insist on saying that up to 115s should have been made available in Treasure Maps across ALL Facets, not only those in Felucca, and a rare chance at getting 120s should have been made available for Hoard and Trove Treasure maps digged in Felucca.

    In this way, a reasonable and effective alternative way to get Powerscrolls other then at Champion Spawns would have been made available to players and this would have pacified prices for Powerscrolls making them more affordable across the board for all players, because of increased competition.

    That is at least how I see it.
  • XrisXris Posts: 130
    Tchalla said:
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase doesn't want to deal with it. And how do I know it's the majority? Look at how robust Trammel is... then look at how dead Fel is. It's not about me. I couldn't give two spits about it myself. I pay for the power scrolls. It has never been about me. It's about the people in charge catering to a distinct minority of players that have a history of griefing other players instead of doing the smart thing and placating a majority of players that prefer to not have to deal with mental children that take great pleasure in making other players miserable.



    UO has had pvp in their formula since day 1. They literally moved everything to tram rules except PS. Just because you need to scroll your pet doesn't mean it should get easier.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,180
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    Then why have I never gone to a spawn and seen PvPers there doing it?  I go there pop the idol. The PKs show up when they happen to look at that spawn, they kill whoever is there, then wait around to res kill them, then leave if everyone leaves.
    Exactly what play style is that other than Griefing?

  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    Pawain said:
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    Then why have I never gone to a spawn and seen PvPers there doing it?  I go there pop the idol. The PKs show up when they happen to look at that spawn, they kill whoever is there, then wait around to res kill them, then leave if everyone leaves.
    Exactly what play style is that other than Griefing?

    If pvpers never do spawns how do they have all the scrolls?  Surely (based on the attitudes in this thread) there isn't enough other people doing them to account for all the scrolls via raiding.  Perhaps they are just a little better at picking when and where to spawn to get their scrolls.

    I spawn regularly.  This week I've probably done 8 or so.  Was lucky enough that none of mine were raided.  I also raided 1 spawn.  1 v 1 and I was better than my opponent.  Now, I don't spawn on the same character I use to raid.  PvP on the PvP facet isn't in and of itself griefing.

    I don't sell powerscrolls, either on vendors or for $.  I use them on my own characters and pets, or give them away.  In the last couple weeks I gave away two 120 archery scrolls and two 120 magery scrolls.
  • TchallaTchalla Posts: 22
    Xris said:
    Tchalla said:
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase doesn't want to deal with it. And how do I know it's the majority? Look at how robust Trammel is... then look at how dead Fel is. It's not about me. I couldn't give two spits about it myself. I pay for the power scrolls. It has never been about me. It's about the people in charge catering to a distinct minority of players that have a history of griefing other players instead of doing the smart thing and placating a majority of players that prefer to not have to deal with mental children that take great pleasure in making other players miserable.



    UO has had pvp in their formula since day 1. They literally moved everything to tram rules except PS. Just because you need to scroll your pet doesn't mean it should get easier.
    Power scrolls didn't exist when the split happened. Power scrolls were added to Fel because the PvPers were pissing and moaning that Fel was dead and they needed something to lure people back. It's as simple as that.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    Tchalla said:
    Merus said:
    Tchalla said:
    Comparing having to deal with PKers to having to do BoDs or ride on a boat is about the dumbest comparison I've heard in a while.

    The pandering to the PK playstyle has been detrimental to the game almost since its inception. The "don't take away the bait" screams get old. If the Fel ruleset is so great, then it should hold up without the power scroll lure just fine.

    Of course, everyone that reads these boards knows better.
    You only say that because YOU dislike the PKers.  I spawn pretty regularly.  I've been raided and done the raiding.  I will take dealing with PvP over the mind numbing (at least to me) BoD system anyday.  You seem to fall into the same trap that too many other players do... that because YOU don't like it, it must mean no one does, which simply isn't true.  There are players who love pvp just as there are players that love BoDs.  Neither one deserves to be removed from the game based on the dislike of the other group.
    I'm saying that the majority of the playerbase doesn't want to deal with it. And how do I know it's the majority? Look at how robust Trammel is... then look at how dead Fel is. It's not about me. I couldn't give two spits about it myself. I pay for the power scrolls. It has never been about me. It's about the people in charge catering to a distinct minority of players that have a history of griefing other players instead of doing the smart thing and placating a majority of players that prefer to not have to deal with mental children that take great pleasure in making other players miserable.


    You and I must have a very different definition of robust.  I will grant you that most of the activity is in the tram based facets... but that is because most of the desirable content is in the tram based facets.  I also think you find far more of the "mental children" in tram... just look at some of the griefing that goes on at EM events, or some of the shenanigans that go along with elections, or some of the nonsense with the current invasions.  The simple truth is that there are some a$$hat$ who play our game... they aren't going anywhere, and they aren't an excuse to remove content.

    I am also guessing that the number of players who do BoDs would also be in the minority.... that isn't justification for getting rid of content either.

    PvP has always had a place in UO, and IMO it should continue.  Like all specific playstyles, I do believe it should have unique rewards for those who participate in it.
  • DinoDino Posts: 27
    edited June 2020
    I think it's wrong to limit the problem to PowerScrolls and PvP.
    The question is always how much time you are willing to spend on things
    you don't like to achieve your goals. When most of the mechanics were
    developed in this game, the economy was still reasonably good. Nowadays,
    any alternative to Champion Spawns is, in my opinion, an almost
    unreasonable amount of time. I very much hope that the announced
    expansion will change something in this direction. Otherwise, I'm afraid
    that the servers will continue to empty and the lights will go out at
    some point.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited June 2020

    Surprised I haven't seen this thread and commented.

    Trammel should not have any loot drops full stop, it should be deleted, or, it should be a safe space for meeting, talking, housing, training and crafting. This notion you then get free loot given out on top of it is ridiculous. Point 1. (The economy would not be in such bad shape - scrolls wouldn't even cost 80m, if gold and loot drops only occurred in Felucca, you would not be able to script farm all day long with zero risk and just constantly and exponentially increase the gold supply). See Siege - where the economy is in the correct shape and you can actually farm gold for anything you need.

    Point 2. No Powerscrolls should not go to Trammel, and there should not be separate pet ones - again, the interlinking of the game aspects between playstyles and roles is what it is all about, there should be more interlinking, not less. There used to be Player Towns, where you all grouped together, to offer support and help between roles - now it's become a 1 player game, which is the downfall.

    And point 3. What about 200m Cameos and stuff from Roof in Trammel? Tamers churn through Roof all day long, with ZERO RISK. The highest value drops remain in Trammel, which is a nonsense. I've never had a Cameo drop. Get one of those, buy 3 of your 120 scrolls. 200m Event Drops. 200m Slithers. Invasion 50% SDI Spellbooks 250m.

    Point 4, I'm currently knocking off say 5 spawns per day, I'm never raided, I usually go with say 2 other people, we do them in 30 minutes. Just mix up where you go, PvPers are notoriously lazy, and DO NOT SCOUT - 99% will not walk further than Yew Gate. Except on Atlantic, where everything is so gold driven it's insane and they do have spawn cams. The only main scouting run pvpers do, is Despise, though to Destard, then maybe Terra to Star Room. Do not do those spawns, it's just stupid. There are about 15 other spawns, which in total, take about 30 minutes to scout, and pvpers will not do it, maybe once a day maximum if you are hardcore like me.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited June 2020
    Tim said:
    The economy argument is bull as long as there are web sites who's main product is Power scrolls. When enough of the player base would rather "pay to play" to make that a money making proposition there is a problem.

    There is a problem with the players mentality and attitude in my opinion.
  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    edited June 2020
    Cookie said:

    Surprised I haven't seen this thread and commented.

    Trammel should not have any loot drops full stop, it should be deleted, or, it should be a safe space for meeting, talking, housing, training and crafting. This notion you then get free loot given out on top of it is ridiculous. Point 1. (The economy would not be in such bad shape - scrolls wouldn't even cost 80m, if gold and loot drops only occurred in Felucca, you would not be able to script farm all day long with zero risk and just constantly and exponentially increase the gold supply). See Siege - where the economy is in the correct shape and you can actually farm gold for anything you need.

    Point 2. No Powerscrolls should not go to Trammel, and there should not be separate pet ones - again, the interlinking of the game aspects between playstyles and roles is what it is all about, there should be more interlinking, not less. There used to be Player Towns, where you all grouped together, to offer support and help between roles - now it's become a 1 player game, which is the downfall.

    And point 3. What about 200m Cameos and stuff from Roof in Trammel? Tamers churn through Roof all day long, with ZERO RISK. The highest value drops remain in Trammel, which is a nonsense. I've never had a Cameo drop. Get one of those, buy 3 of your 120 scrolls. 200m Event Drops. 200m Slithers. Invasion 50% SDI Spellbooks 250m.

    Point 4, I'm currently knocking off say 5 spawns per day, I'm never raided, I usually go with say 2 other people, we do them in 30 minutes. Just mix up where you go, PvPers are notoriously lazy, and DO NOT SCOUT - 99% will not walk further than Yew Gate. Except on Atlantic, where everything is so gold driven it's insane and they do have spawn cams. The only main scouting run pvpers do, is Despise, though to Destard, then maybe Terra to Star Room. Do not do those spawns, it's just stupid. There are about 15 other spawns, which in total, take about 30 minutes to scout, and pvpers will not do it, maybe once a day maximum if you are hardcore like me.

    I am afraid that I cannot agree, and this, for the simple reason that, to my opinion, the # ONE reason for prices getting out of whack and becoming crazy is AVAILABILITY of those items which, in turn, drives prices downwards because of COMPETITION.

    Well before pets needed Powerscrolls, prices where already extremely high for Powerscrolls and THAT drove UO inflation up the roof since a very limited number of players controlling the Powerscrolls' spawns would basically Corner their Market and set whatever prices they wanted for them...

    Guess what ? Most of these players decided to set prices for Powerscrolls higher and higher and some more higher...

    Couple that with other items drops which where hard to come by and required a ridicolous amount of time invested into midless grinding whose players getting them would "also" set their prices as ridicolously high to A ) - reflect the time invested into trying to get them and B ) - To get sufficient gold to buy the Powerscrolld which they needed for their Templates, and one gets a pretty good idea of why inflation in Ultima Online went up the roof and beyond....

    AVAILABILITY, this is was screwed up UO's economy, to my opinion...

    THEN, starting from the Asian shards, even before Shard Shield Transfers, some players started to get Powerscrolls from Asian Shards and sell them to Western Shards but this, was still not sufficient to contain the rampant inflation.... at most, some lucky players on Western Shards would be able to save up a bit when having to buy this or that Powerscroll but it was not significant enough to make a dent to UO's rampant inflation...

    THEN, Shard Shields came and players started to more actively go to lower populated Shards to farm for Powerscrolls and bring them to other more populated Shards to sell them and THIS, started to make that dent into Powerscrolls inflated prices.... some, though, would still remain way too high priced, IMHO.....

    Then came Pets' Training which totally screwed up again the economy bringing back the problem of Powerscrolls availability which pushed the prices for all those Powerscrolls which now were also needed for pets (and a single Tamer may have MANY pets to want to scroll up....).

    So, as we can see, the issue here is AVAILABILITY of items which drive prices up and screws the economy driving up crazily the inflation.

    When a handfull of players PREVENT other players from doing Champion Spawns for powerscrolls and sit on their scrolls to artificially drive their prices up (corner the market, so to speak...) so that they can ask whatever they want for a Powerscroll, because they have the Monopoly of them, this is BAD for the game, overall, to my opinion, because it can drive players AWAY from the game since they then have to alienate themselves into a mindless grinding gameplay which gets old and boring after a while.

    And they LEAVE the game, stop paying their subscriptions and, thus, Ultima Online reduces its capacity of resources for it upkeep and enhancement.

    So, in order to BREAK such a Monopoly, the only one way that I see as possible is to significantly INCREASE the availability of Powerscrolls so that, through pricing competition, prices would go down....

    As I said, making Powerscrolls available in Treasure Chests was a step in the right direction to increase such availability and thus prices to go down, finally, but it was TOO LITTLE and stopped TOO SHORT.

    To my opinion, in order to significantly increase the availability of Powerscrolls so as to drive their prices down, Powerscrolls up to 115s should have been made available on ALL facets, with 120s having a rare chance to show up in Hoard and Trove Chests on the Felucca Facet.

    Even through binding, one needs to gather 10 x 115s to make a 120 and to find all same 115s it is not like one does 10 Treasure Maps, but they will need to be a whole lot more before one can find 10 of the same kind of 115s....

    So, it would still take a considerable time to find enough 115s through Treasure Hunting to make a 120.

    With 110s, it is quite impossible, me thinks, it takes 12x 110s to make a 115 and then 10x 115s to make a 120. That means, that some 120 SAME TYPE 110s are needed to make a 120.

    That means, a WHOLE LOT of Treasure Maps, possibly thousands, before one can find 120 of the same exact type 110s.

    And since a Treasure Map has a 1% chance of showing up on a Monster, that means a HUGE amount of Monsters' killing before one can find all those Maps to be then digged up to make a 120.

    So, as I said, the CURRENT mechanics that limits up to 110s in Treasure Chests and only in Felucca, does not make even a tiny little dent into the availability for 120 Powerscrolls.

    Hence, prices for them remain ridicolusly high due to the Monopoly of just a few players controlling their Spawn and, availability.

    At least, that is how I see it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited June 2020

    The Rampant Inflation can only happen, because there is too much gold in the game. Yes - availability is the other side of supply/demand/gold supply equation But;

    1. It is not just happening to powerscrolls, it is happening to everything, all the previous items I mentioned.

    2. Again, look at Siege, a pure Feluccan shard, where the economy has stayed balanced, because gold generation is maintained at the correct pace.

    Both of the above points, debunk your Availability theory. Players are farming them non stop all over. The problem is down to too much gold being in the system which is driving the prices of everything up.

    Having said that, it is a true fact, that even for me, farming them all the time, we don't see a 120 every drop. I got a 120 Anatomy today, I got a 120 Resist 2 days ago. It is 1x120 per say 5 spawns sometimes. It's hard work, the same as Cameo's, 50% SDI Invasion Spellbooks, and Event Items. As someone said, you cannot enjoy every aspect of the game, and this is one aspect where they really have got the balance correct, so there is absolutely no point messing it up.

    I do accept availability is part of the equation, but it is not actually the driving part here, and it is not out of balance.

    You can do something about the Availability issue right here, right now, yourself. Go out and farm some, get a team together - this is a sandbox game, this is the entire point of it!!!!!!!!!! You write your own Destiny.

    People like you, the perceived monopoly, the injustice is all in your mind. You just want to play a victim. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to help you see. I once had a Director took me outside at work, and he said, I'm sick of you playing the victim here, you can change everything yourself if you don't like it, and whilst he pissed me off, he was correct, so I went inside, and I changed everything.


  • poppspopps Posts: 3,026
    edited June 2020
    Cookie said:

    The Rampant Inflation can only happen, because there is too much gold in the game. Yes - availability is the other side of supply/demand/gold supply equation But;

    1. It is not just happening to powerscrolls, it is happening to everything, all the previous items I mentioned.

    2. Again, look at Siege, a pure Feluccan shard, where the economy has stayed balanced, because gold generation is maintained at the correct pace.

    Both of the above points, debunk your Availability theory. Players are farming them non stop all over. The problem is down to too much gold being in the system which is driving the prices of everything up.

    Having said that, it is a true fact, that even for me, farming them all the time, we don't see a 120 every drop. I got a 120 Anatomy today, I got a 120 Resist 2 days ago. It is 1x120 per say 5 spawns sometimes. It's hard work, the same as Cameo's, 50% SDI Invasion Spellbooks, and Event Items. As someone said, you cannot enjoy every aspect of the game, and this is one aspect where they really have got the balance correct, so there is absolutely no point messing it up.

    I do accept availability is part of the equation, but it is not actually the driving part here, and it is not out of balance.

    You can do something about the Availability issue right here, right now, yourself. Go out and farm some, get a team together - this is a sandbox game, this is the entire point of it!!!!!!!!!! You write your own Destiny.

    People like you, the perceived monopoly, the injustice is all in your mind. You just want to play a victim. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to help you see. I once had a Director took me outside at work, and he said, I'm sick of you playing the victim here, you can change everything yourself if you don't like it, and whilst he pissed me off, he was correct, so I went inside, and I changed everything.


    Well, it is debatable whether players can or not change things in UO and in particular with Powerscrolls....

    There is an inherent problem with PvP.... and it is, that while many do it fair and square, unfortunately, there is others who, instead, use "out of the way" means, tricks, hacks, perhaps even cheats, to gain themselves that edge over others...

    Ghost Cams and Hidden EJs Cams scripted and AFK being only one of the cheats which "some" players may put to use to cut others out of making those changes by themselves which you mention...

    A lot of players do not want to get into any of that and, therefore, they simply do not want to mess with PvP if they may have a good chance to bump into other players using those cheats and hacks to gain themselves an edge....

    I happen to think that, these players who do not want to deal with PvP because they do not want to deal with the "issues" sometimes connected to PvP, not all of PvP, but of some PvP I hope we can agree with,  should have reasonable, effective and functional ways to get their Powerscrolls and this should not mean go to grind for gold to then be able to afford their exorbitant prices set by those few who control their availability.

    Putting 110s in Treasure Chests only in Felucca simply does not do it.... it is not enough, way too many same 110s are needed to bind into a 120 and while 1 character might need 1 Tactics or Anatomy or some other 120, a tamer may need 10 or more of those for all of his/her tamed pets....

    It is flat out impossible to come by all 120s a player might need, using Treasure Hunting as it is.

    Reducing artificially the availability of these Powerscrolls because the mechanics consent to just a handfull of players to control them and corner the Market is, to my opinion, definitively a game stopper for many players who then cannot scroll up their pets as they might want or need, besides wanting or having to fullfill the 120s needs of their templates.

    And this for what ?

    To make those few players who control those spawns be able to become uber wealthy in Ultima Online?

    Are we serious ?

    Really, @Bleak and @Kyronix ?

    How can you think that the Status Quo which reduces the availability of Powerscrolls and keeps driving up inflation in UO as well as forcing many players into alienating grinding to put together the gold to buy them might be a good thing, overall for Ultima Online ?

    Personally, I happen to think it is not, and that the availability of 120s should be significantly increased.

    Which it does not mean making them drop more often at Champion Spawns, this would do very little since, I would expect those few players controlling their Monopoly, to just put them in Powerscroll Books to sit there and thus continue to keep Cornering their Market by artificially making them scarce.

    No.

    The only way to make the availability of 120s increase, and thus prices finally go down for them, is by introducing "alternate" ways for ordinary, non PvP players to be able to get them with mechanics that no player could control in any possible way.

    Only in such a way, 120s would become more available, noone could control their availability, and their prices would finally go down due to pricing competition.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 913
    edited June 2020

    You basically want them on tap. That's not pricing competition, that's over-supply.

    Whilst you maintain the price rate and playstyle of all the Trammel High-End items? Just wondering. Because I'd like an alternate way to get all the Trammel rewards, via a Feluccan playstyle.

    I believe, if you joined our guild for a bit, you would "see" the other side, and see how simple, yet how effective it all is. Or any Guild that does all gaming content. It's not this huge monopoly controlled by the Uber Wealthy you think it is. To describe us as such is quite laughable - we just play the game.

  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,077
    I believe the better way to buy power scrolls on many shards is through general chat. Many players don't put them on vendors, or put them on at silly prices, because they want them to go to players on their shard, not bought up and shipped to Atlantic. I very often see them sold for far lower prices through chat.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 6,180
    GymCookie said:

    Surprised I haven't seen this thread and commented.

    Trammel should not have any loot drops full stop, it should be deleted, or, it should be a safe space for meeting, talking, housing, training and crafting. This notion you then get free loot given out on top of it is ridiculous. Point 1. (The economy would not be in such bad shape - scrolls wouldn't even cost 80m, if gold and loot drops only occurred in Felucca, you would not be able to script farm all day long with zero risk and just constantly and exponentially increase the gold supply). See Siege - where the economy is in the correct shape and you can actually farm gold for anything you need.

    Point 2. No Powerscrolls should not go to Trammel, and there should not be separate pet ones - again, the interlinking of the game aspects between playstyles and roles is what it is all about, there should be more interlinking, not less. There used to be Player Towns, where you all grouped together, to offer support and help between roles - now it's become a 1 player game, which is the downfall.

    And point 3. What about 200m Cameos and stuff from Roof in Trammel? Tamers churn through Roof all day long, with ZERO RISK. The highest value drops remain in Trammel, which is a nonsense. I've never had a Cameo drop. Get one of those, buy 3 of your 120 scrolls. 200m Event Drops. 200m Slithers. Invasion 50% SDI Spellbooks 250m.

    Point 4, I'm currently knocking off say 5 spawns per day, I'm never raided, I usually go with say 2 other people, we do them in 30 minutes. Just mix up where you go, PvPers are notoriously lazy, and DO NOT SCOUT - 99% will not walk further than Yew Gate. Except on Atlantic, where everything is so gold driven it's insane and they do have spawn cams. The only main scouting run pvpers do, is Despise, though to Destard, then maybe Terra to Star Room. Do not do those spawns, it's just stupid. There are about 15 other spawns, which in total, take about 30 minutes to scout, and pvpers will not do it, maybe once a day maximum if you are hardcore like me.

    If there was no trammel, the game would have ended in 2004.

    That's the short version of what popps tried to say. I'm glad you had to read all of his novel. Now you know how deflating fel is.
  • MerusMerus Posts: 511
    popps said:
    Cookie said:

    The Rampant Inflation can only happen, because there is too much gold in the game. Yes - availability is the other side of supply/demand/gold supply equation But;

    1. It is not just happening to powerscrolls, it is happening to everything, all the previous items I mentioned.

    2. Again, look at Siege, a pure Feluccan shard, where the economy has stayed balanced, because gold generation is maintained at the correct pace.

    Both of the above points, debunk your Availability theory. Players are farming them non stop all over. The problem is down to too much gold being in the system which is driving the prices of everything up.

    Having said that, it is a true fact, that even for me, farming them all the time, we don't see a 120 every drop. I got a 120 Anatomy today, I got a 120 Resist 2 days ago. It is 1x120 per say 5 spawns sometimes. It's hard work, the same as Cameo's, 50% SDI Invasion Spellbooks, and Event Items. As someone said, you cannot enjoy every aspect of the game, and this is one aspect where they really have got the balance correct, so there is absolutely no point messing it up.

    I do accept availability is part of the equation, but it is not actually the driving part here, and it is not out of balance.

    You can do something about the Availability issue right here, right now, yourself. Go out and farm some, get a team together - this is a sandbox game, this is the entire point of it!!!!!!!!!! You write your own Destiny.

    People like you, the perceived monopoly, the injustice is all in your mind. You just want to play a victim. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm trying to help you see. I once had a Director took me outside at work, and he said, I'm sick of you playing the victim here, you can change everything yourself if you don't like it, and whilst he pissed me off, he was correct, so I went inside, and I changed everything.


    Well, it is debatable whether players can or not change things in UO and in particular with Powerscrolls....

    There is an inherent problem with PvP.... and it is, that while many do it fair and square, unfortunately, there is others who, instead, use "out of the way" means, tricks, hacks, perhaps even cheats, to gain themselves that edge over others...

    Ghost Cams and Hidden EJs Cams scripted and AFK being only one of the cheats which "some" players may put to use to cut others out of making those changes by themselves which you mention...

    A lot of players do not want to get into any of that and, therefore, they simply do not want to mess with PvP if they may have a good chance to bump into other players using those cheats and hacks to gain themselves an edge....

    I happen to think that, these players who do not want to deal with PvP because they do not want to deal with the "issues" sometimes connected to PvP, not all of PvP, but of some PvP I hope we can agree with,  should have reasonable, effective and functional ways to get their Powerscrolls and this should not mean go to grind for gold to then be able to afford their exorbitant prices set by those few who control their availability.

    Putting 110s in Treasure Chests only in Felucca simply does not do it.... it is not enough, way too many same 110s are needed to bind into a 120 and while 1 character might need 1 Tactics or Anatomy or some other 120, a tamer may need 10 or more of those for all of his/her tamed pets....

    It is flat out impossible to come by all 120s a player might need, using Treasure Hunting as it is.

    Reducing artificially the availability of these Powerscrolls because the mechanics consent to just a handfull of players to control them and corner the Market is, to my opinion, definitively a game stopper for many players who then cannot scroll up their pets as they might want or need, besides wanting or having to fullfill the 120s needs of their templates.

    And this for what ?

    To make those few players who control those spawns be able to become uber wealthy in Ultima Online?

    Are we serious ?

    Really, @ Bleak and @ Kyronix ?

    How can you think that the Status Quo which reduces the availability of Powerscrolls and keeps driving up inflation in UO as well as forcing many players into alienating grinding to put together the gold to buy them might be a good thing, overall for Ultima Online ?

    Personally, I happen to think it is not, and that the availability of 120s should be significantly increased.

    Which it does not mean making them drop more often at Champion Spawns, this would do very little since, I would expect those few players controlling their Monopoly, to just put them in Powerscroll Books to sit there and thus continue to keep Cornering their Market by artificially making them scarce.

    No.

    The only way to make the availability of 120s increase, and thus prices finally go down for them, is by introducing "alternate" ways for ordinary, non PvP players to be able to get them with mechanics that no player could control in any possible way.

    Only in such a way, 120s would become more available, noone could control their availability, and their prices would finally go down due to pricing competition.
    There is equally as much, if not more, cheating that goes on to farm content in Tram than there is in Fel for pvp.  I think most players wish all of it could be fixed, but that is a ship that sailed a long time ago.

    I consider myself half-way decent at pvp, but far from those who are really good at it.  If the cheating, zerg guilds really had the stangle hold on power scrolls you claim they do, there is no way I would be able to get them with solo play... yet I seem to manage just fine getting the ones that I need and have enough to give some away.  If you pop Despise on Atl during evening prime time of course you're going to get raided.  Pop an out of the way T2A spawn on Legends and you can probably run it for hours without any issues.  I think the real issue with tooo many people is that they just want powerscrolls on easy mode.  They don't care that powerscrolls actually are already attainable by pretty much anyone, they just want to keep complaining.
This discussion has been closed.