PvP Combat Changes - Evasion + Splintering

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  • PaithanPaithan Posts: 116
    xxxVideo said:
    Cazador said:
    You guys do realize these “nerfs” do very little and I think that’s strategic to not ruin your character ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Shatter potions..should NOT exist. Period @ Bleak. Bad implementation. Ever try to play an archer/swords elf with 4-5 bows 2-3 weps and 15 of each potion.. lol.

    Evasion in itself isn’t broken. The problem is having high defense mages that can form, eveade, confidence on the run with 50 weapon skill. A simple evasion fix isn’t depreciating returns etc etc and have everyone like Cetric pull out his abacus to figure out sweet spots. Just make it absorb x% Of damage  based on Real Bushido/Weapon Skill. It would virtually eliminate -mage weapon 50 skill evades and open up other play styles.

    Notice no one mentions mana shield? Moving on...

    Since you guys thought it would be smart to ruin SDI mages. Which I for one was sooo against and predicted exactly this. You guys insisted..to quote! “It will Even the play field” none of that happened. Non Parry Mages are absolutely destroyed. If anything they need a huge buff. Leave the parry dropping SDI to 20, and increase cap SDI back to 40% with scribe and no parry. They’re squishy anyways.

    I’m happy with any splinter fix. Double/Triple splinters is broke. I would petition to add a double immunity/debuff personally. Example
    if Player A splinters Player B. Player A’s weapon goes on “Splinter Cooldown” for 5 seconds. And Player B goes on force walk immunity(not bleed) for 15 seconds. The reason for the attackers cool down. Is to not needlessly break your weapon in vain. 
    This. Except attacker cd on splintering. You guys completely forgetting about dexers. Poisoning splintering was nerfed due to mages, and dexers got screwed with that, now you are going to completely destroy them.
    Poison splintering was nerfed because people cried that they couldn't heal because they could get a roll of needing 10+ cures on an LP.  The devs instead of making it so you get a guaranteed cure after X amount of cures decided to take splintering off because they listened to a few people cry instead of thought about what was the underlying issue.
  • KoDKoD Posts: 14
    I think this evasion nerf should hit if you have magery or mystic or necromancy on the template... I think a melee dexer is already weak enough nowadays. It's impossible to kill someone 1vs1 fast when they are on mount. Splinter disarm doesn't work anymore, everyone runs parrying... it's really difficult to get a kill nowadays. The evasion nerf should not apply on melee dexers. Those templates will be useless even more. 
  • KoDKoD Posts: 14
    You will do this evasion nerf...everyone will run spellweaving mastery with the mana shield up... Mages, Necros or Mystics will be fine... instead dexers will be even weaker... I think it's not a correct change. Evasion nerf should not apply if you have only dexer based skills. 

  • I don't want to derail the thread but it would be nice if you could start a new thread where we can discuss PvP balance changes not related to the 3 you mentioned. There is quite a bit of things in PvP that should be tweaked / nerfed / changed / removed it would be nice to have an entire publish focused around making PvP even better and more balanced.

    A lot of issues were already brought up in this thread and there are many more things that could be improved on that would greatly enhance the PvP experience. PvP balance really deserves a deep dive publish that really attempts to address as many issues players have as possible  instead of just putting in a bandaid fix on three issues and leaving the rest untouched for years.
  • ashash Posts: 4
    Balance pvp.  Make it so a non-parry character has the equivalent to gm parry with a melee wep or wrestle.  This way we don’t ALL have to have parry.  Then, lower effects of parry and evade to make it so you’re not un-hittable.  It’ll bring in new temps and allow archers and dexers to still be viable.  Having 0 parry shouldn’t make your template crap.  Right now you have incredibly defensive templates (evade/mana shield) and those that have the crazy jewels that can add offense to it.  I’d say even it out for everyone.  Parry/bush shouldn’t be as much of an impact.  This way you can play offensive temps and risk no parry but still not get hit every single time.  While archers and dexers don’t have to play against all evaders because the effect isn’t worth it as much.  Take the power away.  Archers still hit you (a little more then now) and casters still dangerous as they can fit more offensive stuff (if they want to roll with the given 100 parry with 120 melee wep or wrestle).

    This could be tweaked but I’m thinking raising non parry but livable temps and lowering high parry/bush temps (maybe just with casters) would be fun.
  • CetricCetric Posts: 151
    edited December 2019
    I always kind of felt like dexers should have something how eval+ anat = defensive wrestle for disarm protection.  like ur anat+tact or something like that.  and the whole disarmable shields discussion was a neat thought.
  • ashash Posts: 4
    The splinter changes seems fine.  

    The shatter effects should be like 5 pots max... no real reason for it in game other then trolling.

    and evasion should scale down.  First spell 100%, second 80%, third 60%, and so on to zero.  This is damage evaded... so on second spells you start taking some damage.  So 1v1 it’s still pretty good as it takes away from offense to use.  But in big guild fights you aren’t evading 800 points of damage and getting away easy.  This will teach us all some awareness (especially me).

    if we are worrying about being interrupted while evading, maybe that’s the reason why it’ll effect casters even more.  Can’t cast while taking damage but you can still swing a wep.
  • LordGandalfLordGandalf Posts: 39
    edited December 2019
    Evasion should still work the same but set to a certain amount of damage imop, like attutement for example. this by setting a cap depending on their parrying and bushido levels

    ex1: 100hp for 120bush 120parrying (real skill)
    ex2: 65hp for 90bush 60parry (real skill)

    And i really think its a bad idea to nerf evasion on pure warriors and strongly suggest that the nerf targets dexers with magical skills (magery, mystic). I'm sure there is already something wrong with it, some players can evade like crazy with 0 parrying and single handed weapons, maybe that's what u should be looking at for a star :)
  • Readjust the nerf to pets in pvp you previous did... slight overnerf never corrected
  • PaithanPaithan Posts: 116
    Can a dev weigh in ?  It seems like they tweaked the nerfs and are calling it a day.

    @Bleak
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 598
    As far as I know there were only a couple people that actually tested.

    Bleak stood at yew gate on TC for a couple hours Saturday, announced it and was waiting actual testing and feedback but nobody was willing to even show but me. 

    If nobody cares enough to show and provide feedback why would they be in a hurry? 
  • CetricCetric Posts: 151
    he posted he was going to be a yew gate on TC shortly in a test center thread with light activity on like a saturday morning, and you expected a big turn out?  i tested it on my own just fine.  i didnt even have the chance to stop if i wanted to.
  • I'd love to test but we can't copy from Siege Perilous, so I'd have to farm up a splintering weapon, farm up a decent suit etc etc etc....nope, don't think I can help there :-/
  • PaithanPaithan Posts: 116
    Urge said:
    As far as I know there were only a couple people that actually tested.

    Bleak stood at yew gate on TC for a couple hours Saturday, announced it and was waiting actual testing and feedback but nobody was willing to even show but me. 

    If nobody cares enough to show and provide feedback why would they be in a hurry? 
    I don't see it posted anywhere in this thread... and people have lives.  Kinda need a heads up for somethin like that.

    That being said, I have tested it and provided my feedback in here already.  I did not know he needs me to say it to him in game. Kinda the whole point of this forum, ya know?
  • any news on how to avoid nerfing bushido dexxers who don't need nerfing?
    I still believe that the nerf should only apply when magery or mysticism are on the template...
  • CetricCetric Posts: 151
    any news on how to avoid nerfing bushido dexxers who don't need nerfing?
    I still believe that the nerf should only apply when magery or mysticism are on the template...


    I don't disagree but don't think you limit it to just those two casting schools without seeing a big gravitation towards chiv evade chars for fisting.  You'd have to apply it to all casting schools or across the board to hit home.
  • UrgeUrge Posts: 598
    Paithan said:
    Urge said:
    As far as I know there were only a couple people that actually tested.

    Bleak stood at yew gate on TC for a couple hours Saturday, announced it and was waiting actual testing and feedback but nobody was willing to even show but me. 

    If nobody cares enough to show and provide feedback why would they be in a hurry? 
    I don't see it posted anywhere in this thread... and people have lives.  Kinda need a heads up for somethin like that.

    That being said, I have tested it and provided my feedback in here already.  I did not know he needs me to say it to him in game. Kinda the whole point of this forum, ya know?


    It's posted twice on the front page. I agree a heads up would be nice.

    As far as the forum, it's more of an eye opening dramatic effect when you can visually see someone taking no damage with multiple people doing full combos.

  • PaithanPaithan Posts: 116
    Urge said:

    It's posted twice on the front page. I agree a heads up would be nice.

    As far as the forum, it's more of an eye opening dramatic effect when you can visually see someone taking no damage with multiple people doing full combos.

    Fair point. I skip to the stuff I have not read.

    I also *hope* devs have seen evasion in action by now... lol
  • LynkLynk Posts: 125
    Evade nerf should apply even to non casting dexers.  The arguments of "they have a hard enough time killing people" doesnt really apply, since it isnt an offensive nerf.  No one should be able to take a 6 person dump and walk away 1/2 life.
  • but isn't that the usual choice between strong defense vs strong offense? Templates only become overpowered when they are able to combine both, which clearly is the case with bushido mages.
    If the nerf applies to bushido dexxers as well then they will become completely obsolete and I don't think that is the goal of this nerf.
  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 333
    edited December 2019
    Keep the diminishing returns for evade as described in the OP as of 12/18/2019 (pvp only)

     add a diminishing returns for normal parry chance, resetting back to max chances following 8-10 seconds since the last successful parry (pvp only)

    Allow Evasion to be used with "Use Best Weapon Skill" weapons.  (both pvp & pvm)

     *Remove Bushido's Parry chance penalty while a shield is equipped. (both pvp & pvm)
     
     *Disable Evasion with "Spell Channeling" weapons & disable evasion while holding a shield. (both pvp & pvm).

     That'll fix Parry,, you won't have any template evading 200-300 damage in pvp (unless the 18% (min DR) RNG decides to favor the hell out of that person?) and you won't have the highest burst damage templates evading at all - mage variants.



    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • MerusMerus Posts: 300
    Just an idea to take a slightly different approach on the evasion changes.  I think a lot has been talked about but we aren’t addressing the underlying issue, which IMO is all the +skill templates.

    I would propose no changes to evasion if the skill total is 730 or less.  An across the board evasion reduction of 25% and a 15 second cool down for templates with between 731 and 760 skills.  Then an across the board evasion reduction of 50% and a 20 second cool down for templates above 760.

    Obviously those could be tweaked some with testing but really think we need something that ties it back to total skills to implement a penalty.
  • OptimusOptimus Posts: 21
    edited December 2019
    This is being made much too complicated.

    There needs to be a nerf across the board for evasion. Not just mages or hybrids, but right across the board. No template should be able to take a full 4+ person sync dump and walk away at half life. This is pretty much all about that one spell making somebody essentially invincible for 6-8 seconds. Bushido mages/hybrids aren't the problem, evasion is. We want more template diversity and creativity, not less. Stop trying to bottleneck everybody into a few OP templates, because that's exactly what will happen without an equal nerf to evasion.

    Continue with the diminishing returns on evasion, as outlined in the updated post by Bleak, and make shields disarmable. Evasion will still be useful, especially in 1on1s and smaller group situations, but it won't be a 1 button guaranteed survival button anymore.

    Continue with the splinter nerfs outlined in the updated post by Bleak, and eliminate the hit% increase of splinter with focus attack. With the defense nerf, 60% focus and chain splinters should not be required, and would be extremely OP. As it is, group PvP is overwhelmingly reliant on splinter. On the other side of this coin however, bring back splinter proccing on infectious strike.

  • UrgeUrge Posts: 598
    Not sure how I feel about disarming shields but as a dexer I would appreciate the opportunity to land a hit or two on some people.
  • BleakBleak Posts: 127Dev
    edited December 2019
    TC has been updated and patch notes adjusted.
    • Reduced Shatter potion throwing range to 8 tiles.
    • While players are in combat with other players equipping +skill items will have a 15-second delay to increasing skill.
  • PaithanPaithan Posts: 116
    edited December 2019
    Bleak said:
    TC has been updated and patch notes adjusted.
    • Reduced Shatter potion throwing range to 8 tiles.
    • While players are in combat with other players equipping +skill items will have a 15-second delay to increasing skill.
    That's a start.  I'd like to see it even less. 5 or less.

    I think skill delay should be 5-10s tops and scale based on how many items you swap.

    Also, evasion is still too powerful.  This won't do anything.
  • LynkLynk Posts: 125
    While the skill pt swap kills 4 of my suits i think its a good change as stated.
  • Good fixes @Bleak ! Now out a timer of 3 sec for casting walls. Fix wrestling disarm ti have a timer like all other disarm specials. And make anniversary ponies not summonable while in combat
  • Or VvV horses for that matter 
  • CetricCetric Posts: 151
    Great, now tone down evasion a bit more and make Shields disarmable.  Be cool to see some offensive buffs get thrown in while we're at it but 
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