KYRONIX, please, tone down Mana requirement for Taming "As One"

poppspopps Posts: 4,120
edited February 21 in General Discussions

The Mana Requirement for the "As One" Taming Mastery is way, but way too high.

What is the point to introduce new Pack Instinct pets like Shadow Hounds if keeping them alive is a nightmare because trying to heal 5 separate pets in a fight is a serious issue and using the "As One" Taming Mastery as it now is, takes really, but really way, waaaay too much mana ?

Apparently, as of now, to run As One a Tamer would need about 3.6 mana per second which would take, roughly, 120 Med, 115 Focus (quite a lot of skill points to have to squeeze into a Taming Template) 150 Int and 30 MR and this, just to run As One, forget about Greater Heals on pets or casting other spells...

Furthermore, because masteries use mana based on a character's "real" skill level of Taming and Lore, this means that "just" to be able to run the As One Mastery as it now works, the use of taming/lore skill points on items is a no-no thus making such a taming template an issue.

Please, seriously, reduce, and quite some, the Mana consumption when using the Taming "As One" Mastery.

Thak you.




Comments

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,576
    edited 12:30AM
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    Pawain said:
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing skill rings.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.

    I've kept a party of 7 alive in the fountain with bard songs as one ain't nothing 
  • VioletViolet Posts: 426
    edited 12:23AM
    I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

    Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

    You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

    Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    edited 12:33PM
    Violet said:
    I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

    Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

    You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

    Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?
    Well, pack instinct pets are already a nightmare enough to deal with for a Tamer (walking them in and out of hunting locations with the spawn continuously aggroing each and every pet in the group just one example that comes to mind), their use is very limited sufficiently as you and other experienced Tamers point out, since they are very weak to AoE damage (a bug ? intended ?) which makes them not usable in hunting scenarios where the target frequently uses AoE damage that wrecks the pack instinct pets, as well as in hunting locations where there is too much spawn to be able to effectively control a pack of pets... making their use further limited because As One demands too much mana, to my opinion, further reduces the already very limited uses for pact instinct pets.

    What is the point of having pets which can hardly be used once in a blue moon and just take up Stables space, I wonder ?

    Wouldn't it be better to make their usability more possible, so that UO Tamers can use them with more spawns rather then too few ?

    Using a Bard as others suggested might help but, I see it more of a work around and it also needs another player or a secondary account while I am of the opinion that a Tamer should be able to have a sufficient number of hunting grounds to be able to use pack instinct pets at on his/her own and have fun with them, without needing to have to use a Bard on another account in order to then be able to use pact instinct pets...
  • vortexvortex Posts: 242
    popps said:
    Violet said:
    I have to disagree with this, Popps.  The cost of as one is fine.  There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  

    Taming template is 240 to 360 skill points, taming, lore, vet.  That leaves you with 360-480 skill points to use (not including +skill gear) 

    You want it all with no sacrifices. Make friends with a bard.

    Where have you tried to use pack animals where as one hasn't been sufficient?
    Well, pack instinct pets are already a nightmare enough to deal with for a Tamer (walking them in and out of hunting locations with the spawn continuously aggroing each and every pet in the group just one example that comes to mind), their use is very limited sufficiently as you and other experienced Tamers point out, since they are very weak to AoE damage (a bug ? intended ?) which makes them not usable in hunting scenarios where the target frequently uses AoE damage that wrecks the pack instinct pets, as well as in hunting locations where there is too much spawn to be able to effectively control a pack of pets... making their use further limited because As One demands too much mana, to my opinion, further reduces the already very limited uses for pact instinct pets.

    What is the point of having pets which can hardly be used once in a blue moon and just take up Stables space, I wonder ?

    Wouldn't it be better to make their usability more possible, so that UO Tamers can use them with more spawns rather then too few ?

    Using a Bard as others suggested might help but, I see it more of a work around and it also needs another player or a secondary account while I am of the opinion that a Tamer should be able to have a sufficient number of hunting grounds to be able to use pack instinct pets at on his/her own and have fun with them, without needing to have to use a Bard on another account in order to then be able to use pact instinct pets...
    Just leave them in your stables till you understand where to use them correctly.i really have no idea why your even trying or if your even trying and just starting a debate that you never listen to your replies and then move to another random topic...
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 1,079
    How long have masteries been in game Popps?

    So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

    TOUGH SHIT

    clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

    No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

    Get over yourself

    Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

    Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one


  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,576
    Such a nightmare to take them out of the stable.

    Like you have taken them out.  :D. Sounds like you have never taken a non mount out of your stable.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120

    How long have masteries been in game Popps?

    So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

    TOUGH SHIT

    clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

    No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

    Get over yourself

    Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

    Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one



    The Taming "As One" is only 1 Mastery among many and, particularly specific when using pack instinct pets.

    I use Masteries all the time, plenty of them. That said, "As One" I think is way, but way too much mana requiring to the point that we see UO players often having to use a Bard in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct pets.

    Sorry if I happen to think that it makes no sense to me that, in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct, one has to have a Bard also, just because the Taming "As One" Mastery which supposedly should permit to UO Tamers to hunt with pack instinct pets, requires, as it is, way too much mana...
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,576
    @popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

    You also did not answer.

    What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    Pawain said:
    @ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

    You also did not answer.

    What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?
    And lmc 
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    And it cost exactly the same as consume damage and you've never complained about it..
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    Pawain said:
    @ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

    You also did not answer.

    What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?

    As I mentioned in the OP, "Apparently, as of now, to run As One a Tamer would need about 3.6 mana per second which would take, roughly, 120 Med, 115 Focus (quite a lot of skill points to have to squeeze into a Taming Template) 150 Int and 30 MR and this, just to run As One, forget about Greater Heals on pets or casting other spells..."
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 1,079
    popps said:

    How long have masteries been in game Popps?

    So you have just started using them and you don't like them and want them changed?

    TOUGH SHIT

    clearly you have no idea about anything in game, as per usual

    No, they will not be changed to accommodate you

    Get over yourself

    Once again I don't want any chance of MY gameplay affected by your stupidity 

    Stop posting Kleenex inducing self indulgent fiddle bait and go play on your PC, ideally another game, you clearly are 100% shit at this one



    The Taming "As One" is only 1 Mastery among many and, particularly specific when using pack instinct pets.

    I use Masteries all the time, plenty of them. That said, "As One" I think is way, but way too much mana requiring to the point that we see UO players often having to use a Bard in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct pets.

    Sorry if I happen to think that it makes no sense to me that, in order to play a Tamer with pack instinct, one has to have a Bard also, just because the Taming "As One" Mastery which supposedly should permit to UO Tamers to hunt with pack instinct pets, requires, as it is, way too much mana...
    you are one player

    you do not speak for others, so stop asking for changes that suit you

    if you cant maintain the mana then think how YOU can sort it out

    there are no cheat modes for you

    The Dev's will not change things just for you

    if you cant make it work thats your failing isn't it

    The pets are crap anyway
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    @ popps with this extensive testing you did, how long does as one last for you.

    You also did not answer.

    What is ur MR, meditation, skill level?
    And lmc 

    The above is at 40% LMC CAP.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    Grimbeard said:
    And it cost exactly the same as consume damage and you've never complained about it..

    Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.

    While consume damage can very well suffer interrups without endangering significantly the well being of the pet, interruptions to The One due to lack of mana is an entire other story since usually pack instinct pets have low hits and can thus be killed in a few blows, depending on the MoB that they are fighting with.
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 1,079
    popps said:

    Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.


    then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

    it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

    You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

    I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

    Just play the game or leave Popps

    Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


    How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

    just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

    Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

    Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    popps said:

    Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.


    then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

    it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

    You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

    I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

    Just play the game or leave Popps

    Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


    How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

    just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

    Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

    Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time

    To sort the problem, I would need to get a Bard as other players do to handle pack instinct pets because too much mana is needed to have a Taming Mastery work for taming ?

    No thanks, I'd rather have the shortcoming be fixed rather then have to use a work around in order to be able to use pack instinct pets when playing a tamer.

    Or, just give up using pack instinct pets...

    Yet, I do not understand why things have to be the way that they are, period, and not, instead, be improved and made better to enhance the gameplay enjoyment of players.

    Why should a UO player who wants to play a Tamer and wants to use pack instinct pets have to use a Bard just because, who knows why, the mana requirement for The One was set as being too high as it now is ?

    The way I see it, players should be free to use a Bard alongside with a Tamer if they wish so but not because they "have to" if they want to use pack instinct pets because the mana consumption of the very necssary The One Taming Mastery has been set as too high.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    popps said:
    popps said:

    Because, to my opinion, consume damage is not as crucial as The One is, with pack instinct (weak) pets.


    then YOU have to sort out YOUR problem

    it is totally unreasonable of you to expect the Devs to change how the game has been running for YEARS just because you are crap at it or want 5 crappy pets

    You are the most selfish player I have ever come across in the game

    I assume everyone in game just ignores you and you feel this is your personal agony line or self pleasure debate tool

    Just play the game or leave Popps

    Nobody cares about your drama and we certainly do NOT want the game we have been playing for years to be abused because you just don't cut it


    How come you have never had this issues before? pack hunting has been a thing way before these dumb pets arrived

    just stable them like everyone else or release them, like I said they are crap anyway

    Go tame a blaze cu if you have so much time on your hands and have a good moan that one did not crack out after 5 mins of trying to get one

    Better still go on test and work out the new champ spawn and let us all know how to do it when its live, Oh wait, no, you don't do anything for others, I cant wait for you to start crying about that when you don't get drops every time

    To sort the problem, I would need to get a Bard as other players do to handle pack instinct pets because too much mana is needed to have a Taming Mastery work for taming ?

    No thanks, I'd rather have the shortcoming be fixed rather then have to use a work around in order to be able to use pack instinct pets when playing a tamer.

    Or, just give up using pack instinct pets...

    Yet, I do not understand why things have to be the way that they are, period, and not, instead, be improved and made better to enhance the gameplay enjoyment of players.

    Why should a UO player who wants to play a Tamer and wants to use pack instinct pets have to use a Bard just because, who knows why, the mana requirement for The One was set as being too high as it now is ?

    The way I see it, players should be free to use a Bard alongside with a Tamer if they wish so but not because they "have to" if they want to use pack instinct pets because the mana consumption of the very necssary The One Taming Mastery has been set as too high.
    You can choose to use them or not...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,840
    edited 8:51PM
    In a sense I get popps question.
    He is asking it in terms of taming, I've often asked it in many other areas.
    Whilst taming, pack animals, has zero interest to me, I get his point.
    Sometimes it feels like in UO, to make 1 step forwards, people feel as if we need to take an equal step backwards somewhere, to maintain some fictional line in the sand "balance".
    I often find this quite annoying myself.
    Quite often, an area of the game then becomes this overly complicated layer on layer, such as crafting, which has now almost become pointless - when Underworld, Stygian Abyss, and Imbuing were amongst some of the best game design ever.
    But reforging.... That took it to an insane level.
    Taming is in danger of going there, a few elite, who really know their thing, taking it to a place no-one can understand what the heck is going on.

    I'm going to rephrase the question a bit for him, and it's one I ask a lot in so many areas.
    Why can't we just have it more simple, what is the problem with a bit of quality of life in the game, making it a bit easier? (and therefore more playable/fun for the average person).

    Why do I have to repair my armour, once every single day, along with so many small areas of time wasting functionality, when I just want to play, etc.

    @Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
    There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
    Why?

    The risk of taking something so far down the complicated road, is no-one can follow.
    It happened in pvp, and in crafting.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,840
    Pawain said:
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.
    And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. :)
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    Cookie said:
    Pawain said:
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.
    And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. :)
    The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,840
    Grimbeard said:
    Cookie said:
    Pawain said:
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.
    And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. :)
    The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...
    I'll take your word for it, but if popps is having those sort of issues with tamers, and pets, you should see me. ;)
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    Cookie said:
    Grimbeard said:
    Cookie said:
    Pawain said:
    They are Masteries, meaning you have worked your skills to maximum and know how to build a suit to play this template.

    Do you have 30 MR?
    What is your meditation skill?
    What are your Mastery skills?

    Mastery 3 is not made for NOOBs wearing +30 skill jewels.

    https://www.uo-cah.com/mastery-mana-regen
    https://www.uo-cah.com/in-depth/mana-regen-masteries

    As One was not intended to be run indefinitely. 

    As one is the pinnacle of the Mastery abilities, it is for Masters of taming.

    Try running 2 songs in a full party with a Bard.
    And Pawain, the ultimate elite tamer response. :)
    The point is that running as one no different than using consume damage popps is creating an issue where none exists it just takes practice he wants to take his new pack out and kill end game monsters I'd suggest starting out with mid range creatures learn how your pack works then take it out to real world...
    I'll take your word for it, but if popps is having those sort of issues with tamers, and pets, you should see me. ;)
    When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,840
    edited 9:26PM
    Grimbeard said:

    When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 
    I would not be seen dead on a sampire. :)


    {and in terms of pvp or crafting, I would probably have to admit, it has gone further than most people can handle}.
  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,594
    Cookie said:
    Grimbeard said:

    When you start playing  a sampire you have to learn timing etc correct? 
    I would not be seen dead on a sampire. :)


    {and in terms of pvp or crafting, I would probably have to admit, it has gone further than most people can handle}.
    Ok when you first started pvping was  it hard?   did you get better with practice?  This no different 
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,120
    Cookie said:
    In a sense I get popps question.
    He is asking it in terms of taming, I've often asked it in many other areas.
    Whilst taming, pack animals, has zero interest to me, I get his point.
    Sometimes it feels like in UO, to make 1 step forwards, people feel as if we need to take an equal step backwards somewhere, to maintain some fictional line in the sand "balance".
    I often find this quite annoying myself.
    Quite often, an area of the game then becomes this overly complicated layer on layer, such as crafting, which has now almost become pointless - when Underworld, Stygian Abyss, and Imbuing were amongst some of the best game design ever.
    But reforging.... That took it to an insane level.
    Taming is in danger of going there, a few elite, who really know their thing, taking it to a place no-one can understand what the heck is going on.

    I'm going to rephrase the question a bit for him, and it's one I ask a lot in so many areas.
    Why can't we just have it more simple, what is the problem with a bit of quality of life in the game, making it a bit easier? (and therefore more playable/fun for the average person).

    Why do I have to repair my armour, once every single day, along with so many small areas of time wasting functionality, when I just want to play, etc.

    @ Violet - I'm going to use you as an elite Tamer example here, I used to see this so much in crafting;
    There has to be a downside of using pack animals and they are supposed to be situational. Furthermore, they aren't for everyone.  
    Why?

    The risk of taking something so far down the complicated road, is no-one can follow.
    It happened in pvp, and in crafting.

    As in regards the downside of using pack animals, my argument is, that to my viewing there already are plenty... there is no need to add on top of all the downsides that already exist, also that of having so much mana as necessary to use the The One taming Mastery...

    Having to control multiple pack animals rather then only 1 is not easy, to watch separate health bars, heal them separatedly, watch multiple pack pets going on their own towards side targets who aggro them, having all sorts of issues and control problems when having to walk multiple pack pets through side spawn before reaching the wanted hunting ground, having to deal with multiple pets much weaker and, thus, easier to get killed (and thus in need to being resurrected) and so forth.

    Not to mention, that the The One taming Mastery already has the downside of having to be close to the pack pets for it to work..

    Was it really, also needed to have such a high mana requirement when it is such a fundamental tool to help keep one's own pack pets alive during a fight ?

    I happen to think that there are already plenty downsides to using pack pets in UO for a tamer, also adding, on top of them, such a high requirement of mana for a fundamental tool needed to keep the pets in the pack alive, has been too much towards the downsides...

    This is why I am suggesting to reduce, and quite some, the mana requirement to upkeep the The One taming mastery, so as to permit to UO tamers to more frequently want and decide to use pack instinct pets rather then single pets.

    The more the variety possible for the taming skill to use more varied pets, the more I happen to think the fun would be towards keeping players' interest in the game high.
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