VvV artifacts should be nerfed.

VvV artifacts should be nerfed to match their base item stats they definitely should not exceed those in power. In return the real items should be buffed up to atleast their VVV counterparts or better.

Ideally they all should just be removed because giving out freebie artifacts is bad design since it makes content like Peerless and Doom less desirable to do but also decreases the value of those drops because these items are better in quality then the originals. So at a minimum the VvV items should be worse in statistics then the real items.


Comments

  • maybe try out Siege Perilous... we don't have the VvV artifacts
  • cobbcobb Posts: 172
    Why? When did this become a problem? 

    The bonus is very small. I dont bother using any vvv artifacts on my pvm characters. They are antique and wear out fast.

    Also you leave yourself open to getting attacked by any VVV ppl at a spawn.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    The vvv artifacts are more powerful than the normal ones....no sh Sherlock? That’s the whole point! Why? Why? Why? would people wear the antique vvv artis if the non antique real ones were as good??

    what??
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PinkertonPinkerton Posts: 105
    Uhhhhh if other people are at your spawns they are probably ok with attacking you anyway.


    Free arties that are more powerful than the ones you get from hours of farming peerless is a dumb, dumb idea.

    Yeah they are antique but do about 2 hours of capping stuff in cities (usually without any opposition on small shards) and then you can replace them.
  • PinkertonPinkerton Posts: 105
    Mervyn said:
    The vvv artifacts are more powerful than the normal ones....no sh Sherlock? That’s the whole point! Why? Why? Why? would people wear the antique vvv artis if the non antique real ones were as good??

    what??
    Because it literally takes no effort to get them?  Critical thinking, bud.  Try it sometime. 
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited August 2018
    But you have to be in VvV to use them, it’s to encourage people to join VvV. Although there is a point to be made that you should not automatically start with 2k points. That IS an issue.

    the issue is not with the artifacts but the ease of being able to get them by obtaining points without opposition. I posted something similar before, you should not be able to cap towns without opposition.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TempestTempest Posts: 22
    The issue is that they are more powerful then items that players spend countless hours trying to acquire which devalues their product.

    What difference does it make if you don't use them on your PvM characters? and how is 3 faster cast recovery on the crystalline ring only a slight boost?

    The real versions should be more powerful then the VvV counterparts that way actually doing content in the game remains valuable. People don't want to have powerscrolls be obtainable in trammel so why should superior versions of trammel content be given out for 'free' in felucca?

    The best and most logical option would be to switch the items over putting the VvV stats on current real versions and giving vvv artys the weaker stats.

    The whole point of faction artifacts is a catch up mechanic so players can get into pvp easier but why should those items be superior to real versions? there is no justification for that and should be fixed. Players would use the weaker antique items if they cannot afford the real version that is after all the whole point of them. @Kyronix
  • PinkertonPinkerton Posts: 105
    Only make them usable in Fel.

    When I am gearing a new PvM character I always join VvV and go get their welfare arties then never again step foot in Fel.  Even though they are antique, they last quite a while with the proper care.

    Yes I abuse that system, but It is kinda silly not to, since it is so broken and dumb.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited August 2018
    Originally it was discussed to only make the vvv artis work in fel, I beleive they made it so that the durability wears down faster in trammel. 

    Obviousrky there’s no point making the real Artis more powerful, cos I would just use the real artis. You talk about “easy to obtain” but it’s easier to obtain real artis by just buying them from player vendors, and it lasts forever, no repair needed even .Vvv Attis are char bound, as are silver points, and you have to be in vvv. I would say vvv Artis are harder to obtain and definitely harder to maintain. 

    People mey find this hard to believe, but I’ve heard of some players who couldn’t ride a vvv horse as they ran out of silver and couldn’t be bothered to claim the altars. If people get killed and looted because they had no way of remounting, it shows it’s not so easy to maintain vvv items. I also regularly loot people and find no supernovas.

    vvv horses only last 8 deaths, so have to be replaced every few days. Definitely would be nice and easy for me if they made all real artis as good as vvv, and I suspect the original poster would also find it easier. 

    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • TempestTempest Posts: 22
    Sure for main characters it would be easier in the long run to use real artifacts but the price would raise. And since most players tend to play multiple shards they should not be rewarded with higher quality VvV artifacts over the real version. VvV items should be weaker then the real version but still usable by those that cannot afford to acquire the actual item.

    People not being bothering to claim altars actually helps my side because the VvV items last quite a long time without needing to be replaced and the entire VvV town system isn't enticing enough to lure people there to fight if it was then everyone would have massive stockpiles of silver readily available for purchase of replacement parts.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited August 2018

    I have the opposite point of view.

    PvP rewards should be the top end gear, because PvP is the endgame and the hardest game content, with the most difficult objectives, if done properly. You aren't just beating a monster that moves from side to side a little, you are beating an intelligent human being. You aren't just being given stuff to drop in your backpack.

    Antique VvV artifacts just don't cut it. No-one uses them, and no-one wants them. because they wear out so fast. PvPers don't want or use them. They offer no incentive to VvV.

    The problem with this game now, is the opening posters form of thinking has been allowed to take over, all the PvPers have been driven from the game. This is the reason for the game decline. It is true now, any debate on this topic, will be swamped by PvM Trammies, because they are all that's left. They don't see how anyone could like any other form of play, because they have got rid of them all.

    This is why Mervyn's new Felucca shard isn't such a bad idea, it would be a place that all the old players who left could come back to. It would also be a place that newer younger players, who like the fun and excitement of PvP, messing around and killing people could come to.

    Or as Max says, come to Siege. I really would encourage all PvPers (or old school, or younger guys who want to have more fun) to move there, yes it can feel empty (everyone having stealth doesn't help), yes it's harder, but if it got going, the ruleset could lead to a far more fun style of play. Then we don't need to bother with these sort of opinions. Can leave them to it.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    Cookie said:

    I have the opposite point of view.

    PvP rewards should be the top end gear, because PvP is the endgame and the hardest game content, with the most difficult objectives, if done properly. You aren't just beating a monster that moves from side to side a little, you are beating an intelligent human being. You aren't just being given stuff to drop in your backpack.

    Antique VvV artifacts just don't cut it. No-one uses them, and no-one wants them. because they wear out so fast. PvPers don't want or use them. They offer no incentive to VvV.

    The problem with this game now, is the opening posters form of thinking has been allowed to take over, all the PvPers have been driven from the game. This is the reason for the game decline. It is true now, any debate on this topic, will be swamped by PvM Trammies, because they are all that's left. They don't see how anyone could like any other form of play, because they have got rid of them all.

    This is why Mervyn's new Felucca shard isn't such a bad idea, it would be a place that all the old players who left could come back to. It would also be a place that newer younger players, who like the fun and excitement of PvP, messing around and killing people could come to.

    Or as Max says, come to Siege. I really would encourage all PvPers (or old school, or younger guys who want to have more fun) to move there, yes it can feel empty (everyone having stealth doesn't help), yes it's harder, but if it got going, the ruleset could lead to a far more fun style of play. Then we don't need to bother with these sort of opinions. Can leave them to it.

    I guess i just don't truly understand how does people who do not want to PVP affect those that do ? PVPers can fight like minded players anywhere anytime even on regular shards there is VvV the ability to start guild wars so you can fight on tram facet i do not see what is missing ? I am not flaming nor trolling just want to understand 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited August 2018
    McDougle said:
    I guess i just don't truly understand how does people who do not want to PVP affect those that do ? PVPers can fight like minded players anywhere anytime even on regular shards there is VvV the ability to start guild wars so you can fight on tram facet i do not see what is missing ? I am not flaming nor trolling just want to understand.


    The list is endless my friend. :)

    In theory, you are completely correct, and I personally get that some people do not want to PvP.

    I personally play the entire game, this is what certain people often don't appreciate, I probably PvM, Craft, (I don't deco), more than they do.


    At the core of it for me, it is the solution they implemented that is the problem.

    They create a safe place for the non PvPers to go to, then they give that safe place triple the amount of rewards....? This does not make sense in any scenario whatsoever.

    Safe place for Housing = fine. Safe place for Deco = fine. Safe place for Crafting = fine. Safe place for chatting/socializing = fine.

    Safe place for 200m golds worth of EM drops??? This will destroy the game balance and economy, it will direct all players to this safe place to play.

    Safe place for PvM hunting? Again, this will unbalance the Risk/Reward aspect of the game. I would argue that no Resources or Gold should be obtainable in Trammel.

    Such a Safe place that Scripting, Unattended Macroing, Multi-Clienting, Multi-Boxing can all run rampant with no consequence or possibility of Player Justice balancing out the game and stopping it? The economy then gets destroyed, which affects the PvPers - because the game is broken for all at this point. Yet some players continue to justify it.

    Such a Safe place that you can have voluntary Guild Wars - this is like Boxing with cotton wool gloves. You don't get the feel or emotion from it, there is no excitement generated. Again, no feeling of risk or reward.

    Edit - The Safe Gamezone also has far more Land Masses, and all new game content added to it? This blatantly affects the PvPers, and has been for way too long now. This is just too in your face Illogical and unfair to even comprehend.

    Edit2 - This Safe place, and the incredible loot that is generated from it, are both responsible for wiping out many gamestyles. Crafters, Thieves, PvPers, Resource Gatherers, Dungeon Rogues, Pure Mages, Pure Warriors - all going the way of the Dodo. But as long as the Tamers and Sampires are happy in Trammel collecting endless Risk free Rewards...?

    Surely you can see how all of this completely affects the Game Balance, it breaks the game, and the economy, and this is what affects the PvPers. You cannot combine 2 versions of the game, one which is easy-mode, one which is normal mode, give the easy mode guys unlimited rewards for no risk, put them in the same Shard and expect it not to affect the game balance which in turn affects the normal mode guys.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 3,742
    here is where a large amount of the non PVP crowd reads that what you are missing is victims. i don't believe this to be the case for the same reason i don't kill ettins i think the majority of PVPers are not PKers no thrill in it. 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,257
    edited August 2018
    McDougle said:
    here is where a large amount of the non PVP crowd reads that what you are missing is victims. i don't believe this to be the case for the same reason i don't kill ettins i think the majority of PVPers are not PKers no thrill in it. 


    If we are missing victims, why is Mervyn asking for a brand new Felucca shard to take him away from the Trammel ruleset?

    Why have I left Europa, and am advocating PvPers to come and join me on Siege where there are no "Victims"?

    Both of these options are 100% consensual, and are not forcing anyone to join them.

    Adding a Trammel playstyle alongside a Feluccan playstyle was forced onto Feluccans, and continues to be so, even though it has destroyed the game in our opinions. And we keep being told we are nothing, don't count, there is nothing wrong with the game, etc.

    Let us go then? Let us have what we want?

    The Trammel PvMers can stay put for all we care. We want out, and we want a game that is more balanced, more fun, open to a wider amount of playstyles, and has the thrill of random PvP associated with it, like the original game started out with.

  • CovenantXCovenantX Posts: 886
    Nerfing VvV items won't really work at this point.

    Original content needs to be brought up to be slightly more powerful than VvV versions, because it takes more effort AND time to obtain one of them.

    VvV versions didn't need to be stronger than the original items, because they were essentially free.   Now, people don't really use any of the VvV items except the Crimson Cincture & Stat-loss/Supernova potions, everything else is ignored for the most part, because global loot & other static artifacts are better.

    The Devs need to add more competition between equipment, set bonus pieces, Pvp & Pvm oriented. Weapon/Shield, Bow/Quiver,  Ring/Bracelet/Necklace.   Talisman/Robe etc, possibilities are near endless...  But, the content should be equally divided between Trammel Ruleset & Fel-ruleset.  so that it encourages multiple playstyles.

    or they could open a non-transferable fel-only shard without the siege restrictions as others have suggested.  Both would be even better, mostly because of the inflated economy though, If that could get fixed, We'd be set.
    Remove or change casting focus & poison immunity it reduces the need for "Player Skill" it's garbage. rant2 Bring timing back and eliminate chance in pvp!
    ICQ# 478 633 659
  • SyncrosSyncros Posts: 116
    McDougle said:I guess i just don't truly understand how does people who do not want to PVP affect those that do ? PVPers can fight like minded players anywhere anytime even on regular shards there is VvV the ability to start guild wars so you can fight on tram facet i do not see what is missing ? I am not flaming nor trolling just want to understand 
    Guild war option is a joke, well its barely an ok option but its not ok that non combatant classes get flagged pvp as well. Also its a timed thing and limited to only guilds that want to war each other (less ppl to fight etc...)

    PvP items should only be good for pvp with some nerf added in when used vs PvM, like 15% reduction or so.
     
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