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We need new quality mage items

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    edited March 4
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:

    Miss and interrupted are the trade off mechanics.

    Agreed, it is a trade off mechanic.

    However, mages can decrease the chance that they are interrupted.

    Warriors have HCI cap and that's it brother.

    Cookie said:

    Mages also have line of sight, and range issues.


    And warriors have to be within 1 tile to even get a chance of swinging.

    We can go back and forth all day here.


    Except where you give me 1 point - I can give you 5 with no possible response - because, it IS that unbalanced.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    edited March 4
    Cookie said:

    Except where you give me 1 point - I can give you 5 with no possible response - because, it IS that unbalanced.
    @Cookie it's because of the impact of that 1 point where I'm trying to save time by not bothering with the rest.

    Warriors have to be within 1 tile of a person to have just a chance at hitting.

    That doesn't sound more impactful than any other point you've posted?

  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    @Cookie Why I haven't responded to your walls of points:  there isn't a need to.

    Until you can dispute the fact that a dexer has no chance versus a parry mage - what is the point in discussing points?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    edited March 4
    sibble said:
    Cookie said:

    Except where you give me 1 point - I can give you 5 with no possible response - because, it IS that unbalanced.
    @ Cookie it's because of the impact of that 1 point where I'm trying to save time by not bothering with the rest.

    Warriors have to be within 1 tile of a person to have just a chance at hitting.

    That doesn't sound more impactful than any other point you've posted?


    That equals - Mages have to stand still to cast. Therefore giving you the chance to be within that 1 tile to hit. We have 1 completely equal trade-off there.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    edited March 4
    Cookie said:

    That equals - Mages have to stand still to cast. Therefore giving you the chance to be within that 1 tile to hit. We have 1 completely equal trade-off there.

    The difference is a dexer has to chase the mage to get next to you, the mage being the leader, has the potential of making cuts while they run.  1 simple cut will get off a Cure easy.  If you've ever chased someone in UO you'd understand what I'm talking about.

    Again, what is the point in discussing differences if the agreement is that a dexer has no chance versus a parry mage.  That is unbalance.  Removing 5-8% block chance is not going to break parry mages.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    sibble said:
    Cookie said:

    That equals - Mages have to stand still to cast. Therefore giving you the chance to be within that 1 tile to hit. We have 1 completely equal trade-off there.

    The difference is a dexer has to chase the mage to get next to you, the mage being the leader, has the potential of making cuts while they run.  If you've ever chased someone in UO you'd understand what I'm talking about.

    Again, what is the point in discussing differences if the agreement is that a dexer has no chance versus a parry mage.  That is unbalance.  Removing 5-8% block chance is not going to break parry mages.
    No-one agrees the dexxer has no chance vs a parry mage, most players think Dexxers are completely out of control. :)

    My point, is you are approaching this wrong.

    Parry is not the issue, parry has been forced upon pure mages. Fix that, and mages can rebalance, and drop parry.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:

    Miss and interrupted are the trade off mechanics.

    Agreed, it is a trade off mechanic.

    However, mages can decrease the chance that they are interrupted by:
     1 - Including weapon skill
     2 - Adding Anatomy
     3 - Adding Wrestling
     4 - Using Mage weapon
     5 - Adding Parry

    Cookie said:

    Mages also have line of sight, and range issues.


    And warriors have to be within 1 tile to even get a chance of swinging.

    We can go back and forth all day here.

    Right and dexers can reduce theirs by hitting the mage, running out of range, buildings etc.  It doesn’t go beyond the 67.5%. Also including the mages are static when casting etc.  Dexers can also use evasion and have resisting spells etc.


    We can note dexers also use ranged weapons.


  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    edited March 4
    Cookie said:

    No-one agrees the dexxer has no chance vs a parry mage, most players think Dexxers are completely out of control. :)
    Then I will end my debate with you here because I'm obviously having a discussion with someone who is lacking PVP experience, no offense.

    There is no chance a pure dexer, ranged or not, has versus a parry mage.

    You sit there and die or run.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    edited March 4
    sibble said:
    Cookie said:

    No-one agrees the dexxer has no chance vs a parry mage, most players think Dexxers are completely out of control. :)
    Then I will end my debate with you here because I'm obviously having a discussion with someone who is lacking PVP experience, no offense.

    There is no chance a pure dexer, ranged or not, has versus a parry mage.

    You sit there and die or run.

    Think about that. Warrior never runs out of hits. Parry Mage has to run out of mana - and I've already given a thesis on the Parry Mages mana issues - and in fact SDI issues.

    It is not actually possible for the warrior to lose. If played by a warrior who knows what they are doing :)
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    Sorry for hijacking the thread @psycho.

    yes new mage items would be great.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    edited March 4
    Oreogl said:
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.

    That's not true at all, 1v1 I'll take a mage dump while swinging if I know the person doesn't have parry and I actually have a chance to hit them.

    In the other scenario, you want to argue someone isn't taking the dump: so they run.  That is the only option then, run away from the fight.

    The thread has not been hijacked, this is a discussion on a reason about why I don't think new mage items would be great.

    Stronger mage items equate to stronger parry mages which are already broken.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    edited March 4
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.

    That's not true at all, 1v1 I'll take a mage dump while swinging if I know the person doesn't have parry and I actually have a chance to hit them.

    In the other scenario, you want to argue someone isn't taking the dump: so they run.  That is the only option then, run away from the fight.

    The thread has not been hijacked, this is a discussion on a reason about why I don't think new mage items would be great.
    I’m pretty sure we all know his this works.  I’ve played plenty of dexers too.  You’re not spending the whole time running away from parry mages, especially when there’s multiple ways to heal through mana dumps.


    If you miss your chance you run, heal/chug and wait for RNG to put a successful chain together along with any other part of the template splinter/slow, bleed, pots/novas, shurikens, DP, ds etc.




  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    edited March 4
    Oreogl said:
    Sorry for hijacking the thread @ psycho.

    yes new mage items would be great.

    Ha. :)

    I do agree, more Mage items could be useful - in pvm and pvp, I was just expressing my pvp preference.

    I'll apologise in guild if I have to. :smiley:
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.

    That's not true at all, 1v1 I'll take a mage dump while swinging if I know the person doesn't have parry and I actually have a chance to hit them.

    In the other scenario, you want to argue someone isn't taking the dump: so they run.  That is the only option then, run away from the fight.

    The thread has not been hijacked, this is a discussion on a reason about why I don't think new mage items would be great.

    Stronger mage items equate to stronger parry mages which are already broken.
    Sorry man, I can’t address all the edits.

    New items devolved into a Parry nerf discussion.  I’d say it was hijacked or at a minimum strayed from the original post.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    Cookie said:
    Oreogl said:
    Sorry for hijacking the thread @ psycho.

    yes new mage items would be great.

    Ha. :)

    I do agree, more Mage items could be useful - in pvm and pvp, I was just expressing my pvp preference.

    I'll apologise in guild if I have to. :smiley:
    Lol.  always up for more PvP gear.  The reactive paralyze shield would be nice.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    Oreogl said:
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.

    That's not true at all, 1v1 I'll take a mage dump while swinging if I know the person doesn't have parry and I actually have a chance to hit them.

    In the other scenario, you want to argue someone isn't taking the dump: so they run.  That is the only option then, run away from the fight.

    The thread has not been hijacked, this is a discussion on a reason about why I don't think new mage items would be great.
    I’m pretty sure we all know his this works.  I’ve played plenty of dexers too.  You’re not spending the whole time running away from parry mages, especially when there’s multiple ways to heal through mana dumps.


    If you miss your chance you run, heal/chug and wait for RNG to put a successful chain together along with any other part of the template splinter/slow, bleed, pots/novas, shurikens, DP, ds etc.





    So you went from:
     1.  No one's sitting there eating a mana dump whether parry or not
     2.  There's multiple ways to heal through mana dumps
     3.  Just get lucky.

    Oreogl said:

    New items devolved into a Parry nerf discussion.  I’d say it was hijacked or at a minimum strayed from the original post.

    OP suggests new items get added to buff mages, I simply mentioned if you nerf parry mages then I would be OK with it - the thread strayed when you and cookie delved into reasons why parry mages shouldn't be nerfed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,260
    sibble said:

    OP suggests new items get added to buff mages, I simply mentioned if you nerf parry mages then I would be OK with it - the thread strayed when you and cookie delved into reasons why parry mages shouldn't be nerfed.

    I want to be very clear - I do not mind if Parry Mages are nerfed, but in order to do that, Pure Mages have to be made viable, there has to be somewhere for mages to go, or they will cease to exist completely.
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    Cookie said:
    sibble said:

    OP suggests new items get added to buff mages, I simply mentioned if you nerf parry mages then I would be OK with it - the thread strayed when you and cookie delved into reasons why parry mages shouldn't be nerfed.

    I want to be very clear - I do not mind if Parry Mages are nerfed, but in order to do that, Pure Mages have to be made viable, there has to be somewhere for mages to go, or they will cease to exist completely.

    Agreed
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    :D sibble said:
    Oreogl said:
    sibble said:
    Oreogl said:
    Anyone who has pvped is not sitting there eating a mana dump whether the mage has parry or not.

    That's not true at all, 1v1 I'll take a mage dump while swinging if I know the person doesn't have parry and I actually have a chance to hit them.

    In the other scenario, you want to argue someone isn't taking the dump: so they run.  That is the only option then, run away from the fight.

    The thread has not been hijacked, this is a discussion on a reason about why I don't think new mage items would be great.
    I’m pretty sure we all know his this works.  I’ve played plenty of dexers too.  You’re not spending the whole time running away from parry mages, especially when there’s multiple ways to heal through mana dumps.


    If you miss your chance you run, heal/chug and wait for RNG to put a successful chain together along with any other part of the template splinter/slow, bleed, pots/novas, shurikens, DP, ds etc.





    So you went from:
     1.  No one's sitting there eating a mana dump whether parry or not
     2.  There's multiple ways to heal through mana dumps
     3.  Just get lucky.

    Oreogl said:

    New items devolved into a Parry nerf discussion.  I’d say it was hijacked or at a minimum strayed from the original post.

    OP suggests new items get added to buff mages, I simply mentioned if you nerf parry mages then I would be OK with it - the thread strayed when you and cookie delved into reasons why parry mages shouldn't be nerfed.
    No one intentionally eats the mana dump, but if they do it’s not like you’re not mashing the chug button for what 40-50 points plus whatever or their skill you got.  Healing/confidence etc.

    I mean we haven’t even discuss disarm yet.  The only template that’s able to keep a solid 67.5% is spending 240 skills for wrestling and parry.  Otherwise, and I’ve continually did this any mage with a weapon is disarm and spam AI and whatever that template had.  I mean let’s be real.  

    Of course we did, because it shouldn’t even be a conversation to nerf parry mages.


  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,115
    edited March 4
    @psycho

    I'm lost. We have great mage items from head to toe.  
    The only slots that do not have a legendary quality item is the neck slot and bracelet that are specifically for mages.

    Every other slot has a great item.
    No room for Hawkwinds but I hope you know about it.

    What exactly are you looking for that we do not have already?

    temp.png 571.7K
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    edited March 4
    Pawain said:
    @ psycho

    I'm lost. We have great mage items from head to toe.  
    The only slots that do not have a legendary quality item is the neck slot and bracelet that are specifically for mages.

    Every other slot has a great item.
    No room for Hawkwinds but I hope you know about it.

    What exactly are you looking for that we do not have already?





     
    I think more variability in gear with more eaters, HP regen/HP increase etc.  

    As alluded to earlier, for one example, no one needs 6 pieces of sdi gear when it’s capped for PVP or other capped stats.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,115
    edited March 4
    Sorry I did not see PvP in the OP or title.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    Pawain said:
    Sorry I did not see PvP in the OP or title.
    That was more of an example.  



  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    Add: Earrings of the Battlemage - 12% SDI, 4% CF, +10 skill

    Remove: 6% block chance from parry mages.

    Fair trade?
  • OreoglOreogl Posts: 294
    sibble said:
    Add: Earrings of the Battlemage - 12% SDI, 4% CF, +10 skill

    Remove: 6% block chance from parry mages.

    Fair trade?
     :D 

    If I believed we would never have the nerf parry mage conversation again I’d totally take it up.

    But I don’t believe a 3% overall reduction is going to change anything.  Then it’d have to be another 6% for a sick mage ring or something lol
  • sibblesibble Posts: 113
    Oreogl said:
      :D 

    If I believed we would never have the nerf parry mage conversation again I’d totally take it up.


  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,029
    Pawain said:
    @ psycho

    I'm lost. We have great mage items from head to toe.  
    The only slots that do not have a legendary quality item is the neck slot and bracelet that are specifically for mages.

    Every other slot has a great item.
    No room for Hawkwinds but I hope you know about it.

    What exactly are you looking for that we do not have already?

    I think all the items OP listed are outdated 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 9,115
    Grimbeard said:
    Pawain said:
    @ psycho

    I'm lost. We have great mage items from head to toe.  
    The only slots that do not have a legendary quality item is the neck slot and bracelet that are specifically for mages.

    Every other slot has a great item.
    No room for Hawkwinds but I hope you know about it.

    What exactly are you looking for that we do not have already?

    I think all the items OP listed are outdated 
    Along with hundreds of other drop/rewards items.

    Kyronix smartly chose not to update old things but instead to make new ones.

    But, the new Serpents Bite Tali is an updated Orb.  Shugs Rainment  is updated Rune Beetle.        
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • quickbladequickblade Posts: 303
    edited March 4
    When it comes to parry, as I said before, most player's concerns are about the 1-hand setup in pvp being too strong defensivly + offensively, what needs to happen is  a nerf to the 1-hand setups by -10% parry chance down to 25% from 35%. This way it doesn't hurt PVM sampires who use 2-hands setup still at 40% chance parry, and the shield setups would stay at 35%.

    It's that simple, this is due for years now.

    Do you know that 25% parry chance is the equivalent of around 50% DCI (defense chance increase) in term of chance to dodge an attack? Still a pretty damn good chance in my honest opinion for a 1-hand setup
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