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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited September 2021
    "Mariah, everthing you have stated is true. I do not beleive anything you have just stated was in question (at least by myself)

    The beetle went wild when i dropped my animal lore to below 108 to simulate VvV statloss or discordance, and commanded the beetle multiple times until it went unhappy then wild"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • poppspopps Posts: 4,019
    Pawain said:
    Larisa said:
    You're example is null Merv...per the patch notes:

    • All pack animals will continue to go wild based on their loyalty.

    Since you received the message that your pet was rather unhappy, you knew...as a tamer...that it was low on loyalty and thus should have fed it. The fact that it went wild is absolutely supposed to happen.
    That unhappy message appears about 1 second before the pet goes wild. You have no time to feed it.

    Plenty of players  have lost pets. Now y'all are saying it is their own fault.
    Not to mention, that these messages can pop up while in the middle of a large spawn, with tons of creatures trying to kill you and a WHOLE LOT of text popping up all over the place.

    I mean, it is not difficult to actually miss seeing that warning message AND, since as you mention the time frame is extremely short, in messy and chaotic situations (which is where this incidents are most likely to occur...) one just either does not notice the wanring message, or has not the time to react.

    And the pet is lost.
  • LarisaLarisa Posts: 1,209
    I still don't understand how this happens. I have been playing a tamer for a very long time and I have never lost a pet nor have I had a pet drop below Extremely Happy. I give a command and if I hear the snarl or whatever the sound happens to be to let me know it's not very happy, I feed it right off. I always have sounds on so I can hear that sound. I have never gotten the message that it's unhappy or that it looks around desperately...why does this happen to some and not all?

    I have been to many many events, spawns, insane areas with my pets. 

  • Petra_FydePetra_Fyde Posts: 1,454
    k, my thoughts. I don't do VvV as a rule, but I have used my thief to steal sigils - to overcome the problem of stat loss I had a pair of  insured shadow dancer leggings in my pack, despite having 120 real skill.  Would an experienced VvV tamer have a similar precaution? ie a pair of +15 tame/lore jewels to swap for his regular jewels until the stat loss wore off? 

    I can't really say much about the pet going wild. I have always fed my pet at the first refusal bark, and never given a command till I've done so, so they've never gone below 'extremely happy' and in the years I've played a tamer I've never had a pet go wild.
    I also can't say much about pets going wild in Shadowguard, because although I've been there many times, with groups including several tamers, I've never seen it happen.  Perhaps we've just been lucky.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "Larisa,

    I am in complete agreement with you, i have never had a pet go wild (have lost a triton that went poof but did not go wild), but apparently people do, and they are changing the rules to guarantee pets do not go wild,

    but i am questioning why they are allowing it to happen to scrolled 5 slot giant beetles,,,
    sometime down the road, a giant beetle owner will get very upset.

    With the new changes, tamers will feel comfortable moving skill away from taming/lore so they have borderline control over their pets and invest skill in something else. Making the this pet riskier to own, I know a giant beetle is a danger, now you know (because i pointed it out to everyone here) but some poor saps will never see/remember this thread"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    I will point out that someone who has a 5 slot scrolled beetle is well aware and probably skilled at taming can you keep a unbonded beetle alive at the crazed? I don't know why you're so hot for this nonsense but i promise all your fears are unfounded 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,020
    edited September 2021
    McDougle said:
    I will point out that someone who has a 5 slot scrolled beetle is well aware and probably skilled at taming can you keep a unbonded beetle alive at the crazed? I don't know why you're so hot for this nonsense but i promise all your fears are unfounded 
    So a player doing Pirates has his beetle full and his wife is screaming at him to get the F off the computer NOW. So he logs off like he always has done. He goes out of town the next day and when he returns 2 days later, he should be happy his fully scrolled and trained Beetle is gone?  But if was any other pet type it would appear next to him.

    Maybe he should lose all the scrolls on his toon also since we should be punished for not following the mandated steps for that action.  He logged off on his ship not a safe log out spot.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    If your relationship with your SO is this poor you have far worse things to worry about and should take time away from UO ...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    Yoshi said:
    "if there are hard rules such as, keep your pet well fed, and have high taming then i would agree the majority of the time pets have gone wild would be down to the owner.
    But in 3 years time when it has all been forgotten about that pets ever went wild, and newer people are playing the game, you're going to have some upset giant beetle owners..

    In the future, tamers will not be worried if their pet is unhappy. And will not think twice about spamming commands. So these giant beetles will be at greater risk

    Why have these crazy obscure rule exceptions just because the creature has a pack?"
    OMG Are you serious, you have ZERO idea what you are talking about.  Just because you are senile please do not include every body else in your little world.  Tamers listen to their pets.  Tamers heal their pets.  Tamers rez their pets.  Any player other than you knows all about Pack Animals, even the lonely miner working tirelessly in the depths of a forgotten cave.  PLEASE stop trying to give advice or fix something you know nothing about.  You screamed until the cows came home about the auto stable and the DEVs listened to you so much that they did NOTHING about it and here is hoping that the DEVs in their wisdom will do the same with your useless ranting and raving about pets again which you have proven numerous times that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
  • Lord_FrodoLord_Frodo Posts: 2,421
    Larisa said:
    So following up on my test from yesterday regarding the 24-hour time limit on logged out non-mountable pack animals being deleted.

    I logged out at 11:20 AM on September 13th. Right now it's 12:47 PM on September 14th. Logged in and my non-mountable pack llama logged back in with me with all of the items in it's pack.

    Something still isn't working.

    Logging back out at 12:48 PM on September 14th at the Moonglow Inn.


    I waited 2 days and lost mine.  24 hours in UO is not always the same as 24 hours in real time that is why I did 48 hours.
  • PlayerSkillFTWPlayerSkillFTW Posts: 619
    edited September 2021
    McDougle said:
    Yoshi said:
    "publish 111 is supposed to prevent any pets from going wild, i'm not sure why they're allowing this to happen with fully scrolled 5 slot giant beetles just because they have a backpack? (even when empty)

    Also, please tell me how you're able to maintain animal taming/lore at 108 skill while under VvV stat loss or discordance

    asking for a friend



    Please note, i do not own a 5 slot beetle, i am only trying to protect new players from getting upset"
    So much of this is nonsense 
    First you have no 5 slot billons of gp beetle 
    Ok these new players you're trying to protect
    How would they have a billion dollar beetle?
    And to suggest a  new player would be pvping with said imaginary beetle is absurd 
    Let it go merv/yoshi like i said you do good stuff sometimes but really barking at the wind here..

    T-Hunter/Tamers oftentimes have 5 slot Giant Beetles to kill the spawn and haul the loot. Lvl 4/5 Ilshenar T-Maps can spawn Enslaved Satyrs, which will Discord you and drop your Taming/Lore below 108 (even from 120 real skill).
    Lady Mel is surrounded by Enslaved Satyrs that'll discord you.
    The Fey Spawn of the Blackthorn Captain pods also has Satyrs that'll discord you.
    Lvl 3 of the Twisted Glade Champ (in Twisted Weald) has loads of Satyrs that spawn.
    I've heard that the new Pub 111 Dynamic Champ Spawn in Mistas also has Satyrs that spawn in it.
    Changelings (including Travesty) can use Discord on you if they transform into a player that has Discord skill.
    As mentioned before, Juo'nar has a "Necrotic Touch" ability that functions similarly to Discord when he hits you with it.

    There are numerous ways a Tamer could lose a trained/leveled/PSed 5 slot Giant Beetle.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    PlayerSkillFTW said:
    McDougle said:
    Yoshi said:
    "publish 111 is supposed to prevent any pets from going wild, i'm not sure why they're allowing this to happen with fully scrolled 5 slot giant beetles just because they have a backpack? (even when empty)

    Also, please tell me how you're able to maintain animal taming/lore at 108 skill while under VvV stat loss or discordance

    asking for a friend



    Please note, i do not own a 5 slot beetle, i am only trying to protect new players from getting upset"
    So much of this is nonsense 
    First you have no 5 slot billons of gp beetle 
    Ok these new players you're trying to protect
    How would they have a billion dollar beetle?
    And to suggest a  new player would be pvping with said imaginary beetle is absurd 
    Let it go merv/yoshi like i said you do good stuff sometimes but really barking at the wind here..

    T-Hunter/Tamers oftentimes have 5 slot Giant Beetles to kill the spawn and haul the loot. Lvl 4/5 Ilshenar T-Maps can spawn Enslaved Satyrs, which will Discord you and drop your Taming/Lore below 108 (even from 120 real skill).
    Lady Mel is surrounded by Enslaved Satyrs that'll discord you.
    Lvl 3 of the Twisted Glade Champ (in Twisted Weald) has loads of Satyrs that spawn.
    I've heard that the new Pub 111 Dynamic Champ Spawn in Mistas also has Satyrs that spawn in it.
    Changelings (including Travesty) can use Discord on you if they transform into a player that has Discord skill.
    As mentioned before, Juo'nar has a "Necrotic Touch" ability that functions similarly to Discord when he hits you with it.

    There are numerous ways a Tamer could lose a trained/leveled/PSed 5 slot Giant Beetle.
    There are many ways a player can be debuffed none of them automatically lead to a pet going wild as has been explained. @Kyronix having these effects show on our debuff bars so important!! 

    All these examples are far flung freak extremes that might affect. 001 of the population and as we all know the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited September 2021
    “Please delete all my posts in this thread, I retract any interest in assisting with info on giant beetles, apologies to anyone who was offended by my comments”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,020
    McDougle said:
    If your relationship with your SO is this poor you have far worse things to worry about and should take time away from UO ...
    Was just a hypothetical.  Could replace with I was playing late at night and using a beetle to carry things.  And the power went out and stayed out till I went to bed and I got up early and went out of town.  But since you have no intelligent response you try to belittle someone.  Similar to Frodos only alternative.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Pawain said:
    McDougle said:
    If your relationship with your SO is this poor you have far worse things to worry about and should take time away from UO ...
    Was just a hypothetical.  Could replace with I was playing late at night and using a beetle to carry things.  And the power went out and stayed out till I went to bed and I got up early and went out of town.  But since you have no intelligent response you try to belittle someone.  Similar to Frodos only alternative.
    Paddy cakes don't get salty you offer a hypothetical situation i offer a hypothetical solution....
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 895
    edited September 2021
    Several cases of "no good deed goes unpunished" here, starting with the new work from the devs to prevent pets from going wild.

    Some things to consider:
    • It isn't always possible to do controlled logouts/exits from the game.  I've had internet outages that last days, with no warning.
    • Skills dropping can be offset with skill jewels/items in many cases.  The indicators that skills have dropped, or pets are unhappy should be more visible in the UI (buff bar as mentioned, pet labels on screen should change color, etc).  Relying on text notifications in chat window is bad, as popps notes.
    • Further limiting EJ accounts seems like a good idea.
    • Outright deleting items should always be approached carefully.  Err on the side of NOT deleting.  Differentiate to EJ if needed.
    • There is a finite number of items / objects that can exist on any shard.  Only the devs know for sure how close any given shard is to this limit.  There may be very good reasons for limiting the cases where hundreds of items can be stored "for free".  On the other hand, if these limits are a problem, maybe the limits need to be fundamentally increased (likely not a trivial change).

  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    Pawain said:
    McDougle said:
    I will point out that someone who has a 5 slot scrolled beetle is well aware and probably skilled at taming can you keep a unbonded beetle alive at the crazed? I don't know why you're so hot for this nonsense but i promise all your fears are unfounded 
    So a player doing Pirates has his beetle full and his wife is screaming at him to get the F off the computer NOW. So he logs off like he always has done. He goes out of town the next day and when he returns 2 days later, he should be happy his fully scrolled and trained Beetle is gone?  But if was any other pet type it would appear next to him.

    Maybe he should lose all the scrolls on his toon also since we should be punished for not following the mandated steps for that action.  He logged off on his ship not a safe log out spot.

      That is not really hypothetical.  I live 40 miles North of the middle of Nowhere and it is not uncommon for the power to randomly go out and be out for a few hours to 2-3 days.  The internet is from a Verizon tower that occasionally something breaks in and when it does its 3-5 days on average before the crew gets here, figures out what needs replaced and gets back with parts and gets it working again. Wife figured out a decade or so back that yelling at me is pointless because I just tune her out and ignore her :) 

      I think you know that as a general rule I don't do cheap pet builds and that the beetles are the least expensive of my builds but still not cheap with 120 Wrestle/Anat/Tact/Resist/Parry/Focus / Med  And depending on shard have a value of 450 MIL - 500 Mil of scrolls on the beetles. 

     I also have after these last 3 tamer builds on the new shard I believe 63 Real Skill legendary tamers most with 42 stable slots, so when the power goes out  or the tower goes down for several days, it is a bit of a challenge to remember which tamer on which shard was off of the beetle on a boat when the involuntary log out occurred.  LOL but I do have two big Cat Diesel Generators and Hughes Sat internet for backup (Which is like almost not having internet at all) and can have Gen Power up and running within a hour and almost internet when I remember where I put the Hughes PW. I am gonna bet most folks however do not have their own 300KW power plant and most don't have secondary internet. And then there was that one time that the big ice storm hit and we had no power other than a little 12W Generac because someone forgot to have the fuel truck deliver the 4000 gallons of diesel in October and fill the gen/equipment tanks up.  3 weeks before all the trees across the road leading to here were cleaned up and the powerlines back up and running.  And yep I was on a boat with 6 tamers 3 of which had blue beetle not mounted and stuff in their packs.  Guess I should take a 1.5 Plat loss when that happens again....... at least I should following some of these really smart peoples logic.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    You can point out fluke extremes all day it changes none of the facts and in fact points out that some people care more for the greater good than others..  @Mariah doesn't seem to be much more of value will be discussed here ...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    McDougle said:
    You can point out fluke extremes all day it changes none of the facts and in fact points out that some people care more for the greater good than others..  @ Mariah doesn't seem to be much more of value will be discussed here ...

     Not extreme flukes at all, actually common things for many. Just because they are outside of your limited experience does not mean it is extreme or a fluke.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 1,538
    I don't understand how you all get so worked up about tamers. :)
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    Cookie said:
    I don't understand how you all get so worked up about tamers. :)

      Probably has something to do with the huge investments made into top tier pets and the time sink in training them up. I would imagine if you had hundreds of plats invested into your stables that you would get worked up as well.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited September 2021
    Tyrath said:
    Pawain said:
    McDougle said:
    I will point out that someone who has a 5 slot scrolled beetle is well aware and probably skilled at taming can you keep a unbonded beetle alive at the crazed? I don't know why you're so hot for this nonsense but i promise all your fears are unfounded 
    So a player doing Pirates has his beetle full and his wife is screaming at him to get the F off the computer NOW. So he logs off like he always has done. He goes out of town the next day and when he returns 2 days later, he should be happy his fully scrolled and trained Beetle is gone?  But if was any other pet type it would appear next to him.

    Maybe he should lose all the scrolls on his toon also since we should be punished for not following the mandated steps for that action.  He logged off on his ship not a safe log out spot.

      That is not really hypothetical.  I live 40 miles North of the middle of Nowhere and it is not uncommon for the power to randomly go out and be out for a few hours to 2-3 days.  The internet is from a Verizon tower that occasionally something breaks in and when it does its 3-5 days on average before the crew gets here, figures out what needs replaced and gets back with parts and gets it working again. Wife figured out a decade or so back that yelling at me is pointless because I just tune her out and ignore her :) 

      I think you know that as a general rule I don't do cheap pet builds and that the beetles are the least expensive of my builds but still not cheap with 120 Wrestle/Anat/Tact/Resist/Parry/Focus / Med  And depending on shard have a value of 450 MIL - 500 Mil of scrolls on the beetles. 

     I also have after these last 3 tamer builds on the new shard I believe 63 Real Skill legendary tamers most with 42 stable slots, so when the power goes out  or the tower goes down for several days, it is a bit of a challenge to remember which tamer on which shard was off of the beetle on a boat when the involuntary log out occurred.  LOL but I do have two big Cat Diesel Generators and Hughes Sat internet for backup (Which is like almost not having internet at all) and can have Gen Power up and running within a hour and almost internet when I remember where I put the Hughes PW. I am gonna bet most folks however do not have their own 300KW power plant and most don't have secondary internet. And then there was that one time that the big ice storm hit and we had no power other than a little 12W Generac because someone forgot to have the fuel truck deliver the 4000 gallons of diesel in October and fill the gen/equipment tanks up.  3 weeks before all the trees across the road leading to here were cleaned up and the powerlines back up and running.  And yep I was on a boat with 6 tamers 3 of which had blue beetle not mounted and stuff in their packs.  Guess I should take a 1.5 Plat loss when that happens again....... at least I should following some of these really smart peoples logic.
    “I also suffer power outage a lot, sick of logging back in dead because the pet went immediately to stables and whatever it was attacking kills me, would much prefer for pet to goto stables when my char disappears from the game, not when my connection disappears.”
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • VioletViolet Posts: 408
    edited September 2021
    On live servers, packies with items in their packs have been going to the offline temp stable after about an hour or so of log out time, including ej packies This was actually not anything new and has been in the game for awhile. the packie would not disappear after 24 or even 48 hours.  I haven't seen a fuss about it til this patch when someone  thought it was a new mechanic.

    Bleak has been messing with the offline temp stables for least the past year and a half, a lot of it since people complained they couldn't find their pets when they crossed the blackthorn bridge. 
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    Yoshi said:
    Tyrath said:
    Pawain said:
    McDougle said:
    I will point out that someone who has a 5 slot scrolled beetle is well aware and probably skilled at taming can you keep a unbonded beetle alive at the crazed? I don't know why you're so hot for this nonsense but i promise all your fears are unfounded 
    So a player doing Pirates has his beetle full and his wife is screaming at him to get the F off the computer NOW. So he logs off like he always has done. He goes out of town the next day and when he returns 2 days later, he should be happy his fully scrolled and trained Beetle is gone?  But if was any other pet type it would appear next to him.

    Maybe he should lose all the scrolls on his toon also since we should be punished for not following the mandated steps for that action.  He logged off on his ship not a safe log out spot.

      That is not really hypothetical.  I live 40 miles North of the middle of Nowhere and it is not uncommon for the power to randomly go out and be out for a few hours to 2-3 days.  The internet is from a Verizon tower that occasionally something breaks in and when it does its 3-5 days on average before the crew gets here, figures out what needs replaced and gets back with parts and gets it working again. Wife figured out a decade or so back that yelling at me is pointless because I just tune her out and ignore her :) 

      I think you know that as a general rule I don't do cheap pet builds and that the beetles are the least expensive of my builds but still not cheap with 120 Wrestle/Anat/Tact/Resist/Parry/Focus / Med  And depending on shard have a value of 450 MIL - 500 Mil of scrolls on the beetles. 

     I also have after these last 3 tamer builds on the new shard I believe 63 Real Skill legendary tamers most with 42 stable slots, so when the power goes out  or the tower goes down for several days, it is a bit of a challenge to remember which tamer on which shard was off of the beetle on a boat when the involuntary log out occurred.  LOL but I do have two big Cat Diesel Generators and Hughes Sat internet for backup (Which is like almost not having internet at all) and can have Gen Power up and running within a hour and almost internet when I remember where I put the Hughes PW. I am gonna bet most folks however do not have their own 300KW power plant and most don't have secondary internet. And then there was that one time that the big ice storm hit and we had no power other than a little 12W Generac because someone forgot to have the fuel truck deliver the 4000 gallons of diesel in October and fill the gen/equipment tanks up.  3 weeks before all the trees across the road leading to here were cleaned up and the powerlines back up and running.  And yep I was on a boat with 6 tamers 3 of which had blue beetle not mounted and stuff in their packs.  Guess I should take a 1.5 Plat loss when that happens again....... at least I should following some of these really smart peoples logic.
    “I also suffer power outage a lot, sick of logging back in dead 4 mins later because the pet went immediately to stables and whatever it was attacking kills me, would much prefer for pet to goto stables when my char disappears from the game, not when my connection disappears.”

     Yep that is annoying! And the connection lost pop up always seems to happen when you are neck deep in Mobs or fighting a boss LOL.
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    When my wifi goes out i turn on my mobile hotspot to get my character safe... again these are fringe events.. 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    McDougle said:
    When my wifi goes out i turn on my mobile hotspot to get my character safe... again these are fringe events.. 

    Don't you have somewhere or someone else to troll?
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Turning to personal insults the strategy now cuz I'm really good at that. But none of your arguments change the facts that this is both needed and well implemented...
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    edited September 2021
    McDougle said:
    Turning to personal insults the strategy now cuz I'm really good at that. But none of your arguments change the facts that this is both needed and well implemented...

    Still Trolling I see and what personal insults? I am making those about you on my FB Group, Not here ;)

     I don't even know what facts you are babbling about, I am simply expressing a concern that very expensive pets will be lost when VERY Common things like power outages and internet goes down.  And you mumble something about turning on your mobile hotspot.  Guess what when the Wireless tower is broke THERE IS NOT WIRELESS HOT SPOT.  Just because you don't grasp it does not mean it is not a real concern for many of us. So keep arguing whatever these facts are and trolling with yer snide little comments. Now I need to figure out if there is a block feature on this forum because as far as I can tell you rarely offer anything constructive and even more rarely know what you are talking about out side of maybe housing and deco topics.  Not a personal attack just calling it how I see it. Now please leave me alone before I tell you what I really think.

  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,020
    Violet said:
    On live servers, packies with items in their packs have been going to the offline temp stable after about an hour or so of log out time, including ej packies This was actually not anything new and has been in the game for awhile. the packie would not disappear after 24 or even 48 hours.  I haven't seen a fuss about it til this patch when someone  thought it was a new mechanic.

    Bleak has been messing with the offline temp stables for least the past year and a half, a lot of it since people complained they couldn't find their pets when they crossed the blackthorn bridge. 
    So @McDougle and @Lord_Frodo are making an issue about something that is already in the game and it was causing no problems or exploits. We did not have Luna full of packies. 

    So because of their ignorance of game mechanics we now have a system where pets won't go wild... except for pack animals including giant beetles.

    But the ignorant must stick to their guns and not accept the reality that no Change needed to be made.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • TyrathTyrath Posts: 542
    Pawain said:
    Violet said:
    On live servers, packies with items in their packs have been going to the offline temp stable after about an hour or so of log out time, including ej packies This was actually not anything new and has been in the game for awhile. the packie would not disappear after 24 or even 48 hours.  I haven't seen a fuss about it til this patch when someone  thought it was a new mechanic.

    Bleak has been messing with the offline temp stables for least the past year and a half, a lot of it since people complained they couldn't find their pets when they crossed the blackthorn bridge. 
    So @ McDougle and @ Lord_Frodo are making an issue about something that is already in the game and it was causing no problems or exploits. We did not have Luna full of packies. 

    So because of their ignorance of game mechanics we now have a system where pets won't go wild... except for pack animals including giant beetles.

    But the ignorant must stick to their guns and not accept the reality that no Change needed to be made.

    Yep if it ain't broke....... Why fix it.
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