What would be the best tank build/s for a character to soak up damage, avoid damage, maintain aggro, lower monster defense, and stay alive without having someone else heal you? Any thoughts?
“you answered your own question, archer/thrower with hit lower attack & hit lower defence”
Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
I'm suspecting @Mandark that you mean an actual "tank" character, 0 DPS, as in other MMO's?
Yes, there is. Normally you'd work in a guild with an x-healer and bards to keep the tank alive. So, you are going to have someone else healing you.
I use a Paladin 0 DPS build: Healing Anatomy Chivalry Parry Resist Wrestling (or Alchemy)
The above build is always with a group and an x-healer. This frees up the bards and the x-healer from having (most) any defense and going full DPS. Of course you have to remember the old rule - a dead character does 0 DPS.
The above build is Healing and Anat, for cross heals, or heals on self when needed. Chiv for cure, heal, and Dispel Evil. The tank is the dedicated character for dealing with Revenants. Parry for defense (and that sweet, sweet shield slot), Resist for defense, Wrestling for Paralyze mostly. You could go Alchemy instead of Wrestling if you need additional 80% EP healing/cure pots, etc.
All the tank does is heal, dispel evil, and control aggro. Very effective in a group/guild for keeping things tidy, no good at all for solo obviously. You could run as the point in a group without x-healer support, but you get overwhelmed pretty easily.
For gear: Stack HP and HPR, all the Eater you can get (either Damage or individuals), DCI, and reflective paralyze.
The initial build idea came from a buddy of mine who was the dedicated raid tank in WoW for a number of years and couldn't figure out why you'd want to run one toon trying to do both DPS and Tank. Took him a while to understand UO's design and some of it's quirks that lead players toward solo play.
In summary, yes, there is a 0 DPS Tank build. Yes, it is effective. Yes, you need a group that will fight tactically and not run around like idiots (and you'll have to trust them to loot share).
Based on the OP, I would still argue the Sampire is the best viable option.
OP says character, not template, which would exclude pets. Including pets it would be subject to the damage type of the mob as to which pet would be best.
OP says without others healing you, which eliminates x-healers or extra bards.
That leaves self healing with bandages or spells, hp regen, spirit speak, or life leech to stay alive through all the damage “soaked up”. With limited exception, life leech is the most effective of those.
Based on the OP, I would still argue the Sampire is the best viable option.
OP says character, not template, which would exclude pets. Including pets it would be subject to the damage type of the mob as to which pet would be best.
OP says without others healing you, which eliminates x-healers or extra bards.
That leaves self healing with bandages or spells, hp regen, spirit speak, or life leech to stay alive through all the damage “soaked up”. With limited exception, life leech is the most effective of those.
My bard doesn't need anyone to heal me
Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way...
Based on the OP, I would still argue the Sampire is the best viable option.
OP says character, not template, which would exclude pets. Including pets it would be subject to the damage type of the mob as to which pet would be best.
OP says without others healing you, which eliminates x-healers or extra bards.
That leaves self healing with bandages or spells, hp regen, spirit speak, or life leech to stay alive through all the damage “soaked up”. With limited exception, life leech is the most effective of those.
My bard doesn't need anyone to heal me
That is likely dependent on what you are tanking. Pretty sure your not going to survive toe to toe with something like a peerless or Putrifier…. even a balron is likely to take you down after a minute or so if you can’t kill it.
Obviously your bard template has some survivability to it, but I would still argue is less effective than a sampires life leech.
I will explain as to why im interested in learning about a character soaking up damage and surviving without heals from others. Last night i was a part of multiple events of Osiredon the Scalis Enforcer and there were only pets and summons on him soaking up damage. So i said to myself, why isnt there a character build that allows one to tank bosses such as this without having to rely on others to live, as well as keeping agro? That character would be super effective. So far @Arroth_Thaiel 's build seems to be what im asking about. It looks pretty tanky and sounds like tons of fun. Except for the part about having to rely on a healer.
However, what @Merus suggest about a sampire having the best heals for survival seems without having heals from others sounds like the best route as well. So im currently trying to put together a character with max resist/ max eater/ capped life regen/ as well as life drain with 120 parry/120 bushido/120 fencing (just because i had it soul stoned)/ 120 resist spells/ 120 music/ 120 discord/ 100 necro. See how that pans out. Any input?
Mandark, if you're playing without other characters supporting the tank, follow Merus suggestions, or something similar. Only if you have the purposeful support of one or more other characters does the opportunity for a "tank" (0 DPS) really exist. When you said "I’m talking about strictly soaking up damage potentially for group content", I thought you meant a coordinated group.
If you're talking about playing with a group that isn't working with you (which is what you seem to be describing with Osiredon), a tank build will just get you killed - a lot - and it is not much fun, trust me. People will see you at the front of the fight and stand behind you, lure too you, invisi around you, etc. You will just get overwhelmed. A character just can't heal that much solo in UO. Also, you will not get looting rights. Uncoordinated groups in UO are the same has having additional enemies trying purposeful to get you killed.
As you describe it more, it doesn't sound like what you're looking for is a "tank" in the generalized description of MMO's, but rather some type of defense weighted Sampire. Which is what Merus has been suggesting.
Your shard does not have tamers? Our community hunts rarely have melle toons. We learned about taming long ago. In a few weeks a you can build a tamer that can do 95% of the content solo.
@Arroth_Thaiel Thank you for the suggestions. That makes sense to me. Is there a scale in which a player will gain looting rights? Such as x% damage to x target, or is it just if you land a few hits you are now tagged?
Thank you others too for your advice. Very much appreciated.
I'll let someone else talk looting rights details. A good rule of thumb is top 16 damagers (damage defined as: dealt, taken, healed) although for certain creatures you have to hit some threshold to get looting rights, even if only 3 or 4 characters are doing damage.
UO does not have tanks. It has chaining specials and then channeling that damage into life leech to maintain health, aka the sampire. There is really no other template that can take damage quite like the sampire. Of course, it begins to fail when you have monsters with anti-life leech.
There isn't really any kind of meaningful aggro mechanic either - generally speaking, monsters stick to a target unless the targets moves a certain distance away, or if they have some kind of script that causes them to target random players. The only worthwhile exception to this is, if you stand on the same tile as a monster, it will attack you even if it's targeting a different player.
I know you were asking about templates, but this is uo. So, in terms of things that can make you tankier.
Weapon Mods
Hit Fatigue: Once a targets stamina drops below 30 it's attack speed goes from 1.25s to 2s. a 60% Drop in Melee DPS.
Hit Lower Attack: This is a bit more difficult to explain since it scales based on your skill, your defense chance increase, and your opponents combat skill, but it's roughly a 25% Increase in your block rate.
Hit Mana Drain: *Not enough Data on what bosses this actually works against well enough to matter*
Abilities
Stagger: -60% Swing Speed Increase Useless on Most bosses Unless paired with Hit Fatigue. Targets only need 180 Stamina to make Stagger pointless. BUT once their stamina is low enough, it can take them from swinging every 2 seconds to every 5 seconds. a 150% Drop in Melee DPS
Pierce: Extra Stamina Damage, and Stamina Drain on the Target. Pairs well with hit fatigue to drop their stamina Quickly.
Feint: 50% Damage Reduction dealt to you.
Spells:
Stone Form: Cannot be cursed, cannot be poisoned, Cannot be bled. Free +5 To all resist caps, and still maintain 45% Defense Chance Increase. Requires heavy skill investment though. Cannot be on mount.
Tiger Form: +20% Defense Chance Increase, +5 Defense chance increase cap if you aren't refined. 4% Chance to Evade any attack. Downside, Can't do any weapon specials, or cast any spells.
Evasion: Chance to dodge spells and breath attacks, Timer dependent on Tactics + Anatomy. Dodge Chance based on Bushido + Parrying.
Confidence: Super hit point regeneration until you take damage. With bushido mastery becomes much more better.
Attunement: Would have to ask a more experienced Spellweaver, but I think at most generates a shield negating 87 Points of melee damage at a p6, with a 2 minute cooldown. 50% Chance to be cast as a human, but is a smaller shield at 20 skill. Works well When paired with damage reductions like Spirituality, Refinements, an armored swamp dragon, Fish pies, and Peacemaking Buffs.
Mirror Image: Chance to divert damage to your mirror image scales with your Ninjitsu Skill. can pump out 1 image per second at 4/6 casting. Successful Diversion can break combat on target. Downside, can't be on mount, they die to any damage, so weak to anything that aoes.
Peacemaking Masteries: Not really viable to use for yourself, but something to keep in mind. 30% Damage Reduction, +21 Hit Point Regeneration that stacks with gear/confidence.
Items:
Barrab Hemolymph Concentrate
+10 HP for 5 minutes. Over cap. Cannot use confidence while under the effects. <- Idiotic
Fish Pies. Can only use one at a time. 5 Physical Damage Soak 5 Fire Damage Soak 5 Cold Damage Soak 5 Poison Damage Soak 5 Energy Damage Soak
Paroxy Swamp Dragon: 13% Damage Reduction. Armor Never Breaks
Refinements: Increased resist caps for lowered defense chance caps, or Lowered resist caps for increased defense chance caps.
Enhanced Bandages
Eaters: Useful for the first minute of a fight. After that, lose their effectiveness since you have to not take damage for 3 seconds to build an eater charge.
Virtue
Spirituality At Knight reduces damage by 20%, 200 HP shield.
Assuming Can't leech life from targets. These are some of the more tanky builds.
Full Evasion Timer, Can Chug Potions, Feint, Pierce, Bandis,
Hit Fatigue + Hit Lower Attack
Armored Swamp Dragon Use Spirituality Shield at start of fight until hit Fatigue/Hit lower attack kicks in 5 Soak Pie based on Main damage of Target Refine Based on Main Damage of Target
If you add on the Peacemaking Mastery and the Provocation mastery. Not much in the game should be able to kill you.
4/6 Casting. Pump those images. Won't have mana for much else besides feint and images.
Barrab Hemolymph Concentrate
Use Spirituality Shield at start of fight until hit Fatigue/Hit lower attack kicks in 5 Soak Pie based on Main damage of Target Refine Based on Main Damage of Target
Comments
My namesakes current build
120 music/provo/disco
90 healing/anatomy/tactics/archery
Yes, there is. Normally you'd work in a guild with an x-healer and bards to keep the tank alive. So, you are going to have someone else healing you.
I use a Paladin 0 DPS build:
Healing
Anatomy
Chivalry
Parry
Resist
Wrestling (or Alchemy)
The above build is always with a group and an x-healer. This frees up the bards and the x-healer from having (most) any defense and going full DPS. Of course you have to remember the old rule - a dead character does 0 DPS.
The above build is Healing and Anat, for cross heals, or heals on self when needed. Chiv for cure, heal, and Dispel Evil. The tank is the dedicated character for dealing with Revenants. Parry for defense (and that sweet, sweet shield slot), Resist for defense, Wrestling for Paralyze mostly. You could go Alchemy instead of Wrestling if you need additional 80% EP healing/cure pots, etc.
All the tank does is heal, dispel evil, and control aggro. Very effective in a group/guild for keeping things tidy, no good at all for solo obviously. You could run as the point in a group without x-healer support, but you get overwhelmed pretty easily.
For gear: Stack HP and HPR, all the Eater you can get (either Damage or individuals), DCI, and reflective paralyze.
The initial build idea came from a buddy of mine who was the dedicated raid tank in WoW for a number of years and couldn't figure out why you'd want to run one toon trying to do both DPS and Tank. Took him a while to understand UO's design and some of it's quirks that lead players toward solo play.
In summary, yes, there is a 0 DPS Tank build. Yes, it is effective. Yes, you need a group that will fight tactically and not run around like idiots (and you'll have to trust them to loot share).
OP says character, not template, which would exclude pets. Including pets it would be subject to the damage type of the mob as to which pet would be best.
OP says without others healing you, which eliminates x-healers or extra bards.
That leaves self healing with bandages or spells, hp regen, spirit speak, or life leech to stay alive through all the damage “soaked up”. With limited exception, life leech is the most effective of those.
Obviously your bard template has some survivability to it, but I would still argue is less effective than a sampires life leech.
However, what @Merus suggest about a sampire having the best heals for survival seems without having heals from others sounds like the best route as well. So im currently trying to put together a character with max resist/ max eater/ capped life regen/ as well as life drain with 120 parry/120 bushido/120 fencing (just because i had it soul stoned)/ 120 resist spells/ 120 music/ 120 discord/ 100 necro. See how that pans out. Any input?
If you're talking about playing with a group that isn't working with you (which is what you seem to be describing with Osiredon), a tank build will just get you killed - a lot - and it is not much fun, trust me. People will see you at the front of the fight and stand behind you, lure too you, invisi around you, etc. You will just get overwhelmed. A character just can't heal that much solo in UO. Also, you will not get looting rights. Uncoordinated groups in UO are the same has having additional enemies trying purposeful to get you killed.
As you describe it more, it doesn't sound like what you're looking for is a "tank" in the generalized description of MMO's, but rather some type of defense weighted Sampire. Which is what Merus has been suggesting.
Just can't handle raids solo.
1 tamer 1 melee or archer toon with the proper weapons can take out a para Balron or Lich Lord in a fraction of the time they could solo it.
Thank you others too for your advice. Very much appreciated.
There isn't really any kind of meaningful aggro mechanic either - generally speaking, monsters stick to a target unless the targets moves a certain distance away, or if they have some kind of script that causes them to target random players. The only worthwhile exception to this is, if you stand on the same tile as a monster, it will attack you even if it's targeting a different player.
Weapon Mods
Hit Fatigue: Once a targets stamina drops below 30 it's attack speed goes from 1.25s to 2s. a 60% Drop in Melee DPS.
Hit Lower Attack: This is a bit more difficult to explain since it scales based on your skill, your defense chance increase, and your opponents combat skill, but it's roughly a 25% Increase in your block rate.
Hit Mana Drain: *Not enough Data on what bosses this actually works against well enough to matter*
Abilities
Stagger: -60% Swing Speed Increase
Useless on Most bosses Unless paired with Hit Fatigue. Targets only need 180 Stamina to make Stagger pointless. BUT once their stamina is low enough, it can take them from swinging every 2 seconds to every 5 seconds. a 150% Drop in Melee DPS
Pierce: Extra Stamina Damage, and Stamina Drain on the Target. Pairs well with hit fatigue to drop their stamina Quickly.
Feint: 50% Damage Reduction dealt to you.
Spells:
Stone Form: Cannot be cursed, cannot be poisoned, Cannot be bled. Free +5 To all resist caps, and still maintain 45% Defense Chance Increase. Requires heavy skill investment though. Cannot be on mount.
Tiger Form: +20% Defense Chance Increase, +5 Defense chance increase cap if you aren't refined. 4% Chance to Evade any attack. Downside, Can't do any weapon specials, or cast any spells.
Evasion: Chance to dodge spells and breath attacks, Timer dependent on Tactics + Anatomy. Dodge Chance based on Bushido + Parrying.
Confidence: Super hit point regeneration until you take damage. With bushido mastery becomes much more better.
Attunement: Would have to ask a more experienced Spellweaver, but I think at most generates a shield negating 87 Points of melee damage at a p6, with a 2 minute cooldown. 50% Chance to be cast as a human, but is a smaller shield at 20 skill. Works well When paired with damage reductions like Spirituality, Refinements, an armored swamp dragon, Fish pies, and Peacemaking Buffs.
Mirror Image: Chance to divert damage to your mirror image scales with your Ninjitsu Skill. can pump out 1 image per second at 4/6 casting. Successful Diversion can break combat on target. Downside, can't be on mount, they die to any damage, so weak to anything that aoes.
Peacemaking Masteries:
Not really viable to use for yourself, but something to keep in mind. 30% Damage Reduction, +21 Hit Point Regeneration that stacks with gear/confidence.
Items:
Fish Pies.
Can only use one at a time.
5 Physical Damage Soak
5 Fire Damage Soak
5 Cold Damage Soak
5 Poison Damage Soak
5 Energy Damage Soak
Orange Petals: Poison Resistance
Armored Swamp Dragon: 20% Damage Reduction. Armor Breaks
Paroxy Swamp Dragon: 13% Damage Reduction. Armor Never Breaks
Refinements: Increased resist caps for lowered defense chance caps, or Lowered resist caps for increased defense chance caps.
Enhanced Bandages
Eaters: Useful for the first minute of a fight. After that, lose their effectiveness since you have to not take damage for 3 seconds to build an eater charge.
Virtue
Spirituality
At Knight reduces damage by 20%, 200 HP shield.
Assuming Can't leech life from targets. These are some of the more tanky builds.
Samurai
120 Fencing (leafblade)
120 Tactics
120 Bushido
100 Parrying
100 Anatomy
100 Healing
100 Resist
+40 Skill Increase Required
Full Evasion Timer, Can Chug Potions, Feint, Pierce, Bandis,
Hit Fatigue + Hit Lower Attack
Armored Swamp Dragon
Use Spirituality Shield at start of fight until hit Fatigue/Hit lower attack kicks in
5 Soak Pie based on Main damage of Target
Refine Based on Main Damage of Target
If you add on the Peacemaking Mastery and the Provocation mastery. Not much in the game should be able to kill you.
Ninja
120 Fencing (leafblade)
60 Tactics
120 Ninjitsu
100 Parrying
110 Anatomy
110 Healing
100 Resist
Feint, Bandis, Images
Hit Fatigue and hit lower attack on weapon.
4/6 Casting. Pump those images. Won't have mana for much else besides feint and images.
5 Soak Pie based on Main damage of Target
Refine Based on Main Damage of Target