Fall Dynamic Events Discussion

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  • LandicineLandicine Posts: 9

    The event in felucca is also dumb and should not happen especially when the dungeon has an active champion spawn. It doesn't promote pvp like the supporters say it's just blue sampires that have nothing to lose and get way better drop rates then anyone possibly can in trammel.  Even if you waste time to go down and kill them all their drops are insured and they will just come back 5 minutes later and start again all the while making even more money off powerscrolls. 

    Look at ice dungeon when it was in felucca it had no champion spawn so no one bothered go there.

    It's fine on Atlantic because its the only server that actually has population enough to justify felucca being included but even there doesn't bring additional PvP.  It's just 20 blues down there farming the spawn all day and night but thats better then the 2 or even solo player doing the spawn themselves on all these crap shards like LS, Baja, Napa.  

    I take slight issue with LS being called a crap shard, and if these events don't happen to Felucca, it would pretty much doom Felucca to continued decline.

    That said, I do think tweaks to the Fel side should probably happen. I've spent more time in Felucca than Trammel because the rewards are better and the risk is minimal (5 murder attempts, 2 successful, with many more deaths to paragons and my own incompetence than pvp). I think the champ spawn is a nice boon, but without any sort of risk, it feels a little cheesy.

    It also isn't worth fighting rather than running. If I kill the red, I get as little as he will get from me. A simple fix is to make a chance at a drop from kills (either murders or justice) with a few safeguards to prevent farming alts.

    I think adding "cursed" to Felucca only would simply make the drops from that facet worth less for collectors and not actually prevent farming by people clever enough. It would however increase the feel bad of losing a 1-5 million gold item and make even fewer people spend time in Felucca.


  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,284
    Have the number of paragons dynamic to the number of people in the area / dungeon and despawn them if necessary. For example if you are the only person in Fire there should not be a  large group of paragons chasing after you. Quite frankly the large number of paragons in Fire when there a only a few people there is why I stopped playing the event after a few days. Ice had a workable number that I could handle either with fighting or evading when I was not in the mood for a protracted fight.

    Add invasion spell books to the reward list. 


  • Mene_DrachenfelsMene_Drachenfels Posts: 203
    edited July 20

    This type of events would actually served much better without all these “gold monsters. ” Farms of exchange items can be avoided by the Dynamic Spawn in the dungeon, you have to run around, and look for the monsters. The focus of Tresures of. . - Events should really be on the exchangeable items, but not on the slaughtering of Paragon crowds.
    Even if you acted as tamer with well-trained pets using the tactics Pawain often described here, you as a single player still have far too low chances of survival, especially at high end paragons like Balrons or Fire Demons. They change their target often enough for unrecognizable reasons from the pet to the tamer.

    In my humble opinion, the hit points of these “gold monsters” are too high. When I asked about it, an answer came that these are probably 5 times as high as normal. Really? Must this really be? Some of these “goldies” are quite tough – some of them can be 20 minutes or more. If you catch one like that, it’s very time-consuming. So you wonder why you can’t just take twice or three times the amount of hit points, especially since these guys have to constantly auto-reveal you, because they just mean you’re cheating.

    As a Tamer/Mage this circumstance often takes away the only self-protection I have at the moment and ensures only one thing – namely permanent death with player chars and well-trained pets. If this happens a couple of times for the player, because then there are facts, as described by TimSt or AmberWitch here, namely that the “goldies” accumulate or some “very brave” warrior pulls them along, only one thing is really guaranteed: Deathrobe. The body reacts with stress, which it does not really necessarily need. At some point, anger comes, and if you don’t change to succeed, you don’t want to go on. I can only repeat myself here: Permanent death stinks and is just not fun. But it seems like you can’t do without these events.

    So – why does it have to be? Why is it suddenly impossible to do without permanent death? Why aren’t the “normal” Ilsh-Paragons enough, which are bad enough as Balron or Greater Dragon, Ancient Wyrm etc. Why does it have to be made even worse? Just because of the action? Just because only because a few people are screaming for it, who are then not to be found in the game? What about the other mess of folks? Just because maybe some particularly nasty EM or even a dev found it super-cool and then started to provide high end boss monsters with massive hitpoints? But I still think it’s OK, if you can expect that there are teams that can handle these monsters well.

     

    Please consider the following suggestion:
    Adjusting much too high hit points at the higher Paragons – here in Fire that would be for me: Balron, Fire Demon, Lava Elemental (this is partly a real nasty sock) and Succubi.
    If there are only a few players in the dungeon, adjust Paragon Spawn or make sure that the stay time of previously spaced Paragons is shortened. I just don’t know how long a spaced monster is in time before it disappears on its own – maybe 2-3 hours or more, but at such events it’s just too long. Here I would welcome much shorter periods of, say, 15 or 30 minutes if no one is in the dungeon. If you can’t do it without Paragons.
    There remains the problem of these “superheroes”, who just run away from such goldies and then expose them to completely innocent people. What really protects us from the stupidity of these players, I haven’t figured out yet.

    Another points that disturb me massivly is this "timely-set". Do we really need to mingle this smart-phone gaming industry? Or are we perhaps rather proud of the fact that the UO has been something like a rock in the surf for 25 years, to which we always like to return, no matter how stormy it is?


    ----

    Treasures of Tokuno was so successful as a “Global Event” because the event lasted for a long time, the drop of arties was exchanged in a relatively rapid sequence, and because the exchangeable arties were all of a lasting value to the player, because the  they didn’t have any “special” features like “Antique”, “Briddle”, “Cursed” etc. Those artifacts are pure. Of course, they also break down in battle, but they are fully repairable and you can bring back the full 255 points through PoF. That – and that alone is the decisive factor that matters to most players who fight battles in this world. Equipment has to be durable here, I can’t imagine a soldier who thinks it’s cool that he’s gonna stand naked in front of his archenemy just because his weapon or his equipment suddenly vanish into thin air. Even if we have an oversupply of items for our equipment, at some point after many very long searches you finally have your stuff together, and you don’t want to tinker with it anymore.




    A little less ego-thinking, know-it-all and rumbling compared to others who aren't so "great" and the UO-life would be a whole corner easier

    (Ein bisschen weniger Ego-Denken, Besserwisserei und Rumprollerei anderen gegenüber die halt nicht so "toll sind" und das UO-Leben wäre ne ganze Ecke einfacher)







  • DragoDrago Posts: 248
    Bilbo said:
    Drago said:
    Bilbo said:
    McDougle said:
    Bilbo said:
    Drago said:
    RE: Removing antique property

    Introduce item to the game that can remove antique property from an item (quest or rare drop). 
    Restrictions:  limited to 1 per character, 7 per shard.  This might allow a happy medium,
    Mass EJ Accounts would be no problem to fix the limit.
    Make EJ accounts not eligible...
    3 Paid Accounts would give me 525 of them for my home shard or 525 of them to sell on Atl. 
    People with just 1 Account could use 175 of them and then 10 days later delete the gift chars and make new ones for what 150 more per account, why limit them when the work around is simple unless you really want the devs to dig that deep into the code.  What other drop has a limit on it.

    1. Make shard bound
    1. You can only have 7 on 1 shard at a time per account (doesnt matter who converted it).
    People will just take their stuff with them shard hopping, so now I suppose you will say make the gear shard bound.

    Thats what I just said.  Clearly you didn't read my post.  What % of the playerbase actually shard hops? aside from gold farmers? I doubt its the majority. I have 2 paying accounts and 1 EJ. I never use my EJ and never shard hop.

    If shard bound causes other balance issues we cannot think of , maybe instead:
    • have the antique property removed and durability cap decreased from 255.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 678
    Kyronix said:
    Further, as we look to our Treasures of Halloween event we want to make sure we address concerns there as well, so anything you would like to see us do specifically here is the place to let us know!  There's been a fair amount of negative feedback about the "Antique" property on various items.  While it would be great to hang on to these items forever, we also have to think long term impacts of the growing power of these items.  So, any thoughts on what would make those items more palatable while keeping that in mind are welcome.  Feel free to share any other feedback or reward items you would like to see re: these events as well but please keep it constructive, and be specific.  We cannot take action on ambiguity.  Thanks in advance for the feedback!
    Alternatives to the Antique items now:
    • Brittle / Replica classification instead (150 Durb - cannot POF). For splintering weaps - make them Brittle and max 255/255 Durb as they will wear down fast regardless.
    • Keep Antique but make them super OP and reduce cost. The items would eventually break but this allows people to get a few of the weapons to use without having to choose between the weapon and something like HCI earrings or SSI Eps or 250 luck items. What I mean by "super OP" is either something to the effect of a Double Axe with 100/100/75 LL ML SL + 50% hit spell + 50% HLD + 50% area effect + relevant slayer + 100% relevant damage type OR hatchet with 50% DI/hit lightning/lower defense/purge magic + 25% splinter + balanced.
    For the Dynamic Champ (many have already said): 
    • Participation drops need to increased. I can't say what change needs to be made since the logic of the drops hasn't been provided but it needs to be much higher than it was. There were days in between drops on my sampire when working 5-8 spawns back to back... I never received more than 1 drop a day per char.
    • Needs to be an incentive to keep doing the spawn past the first 2 levels. This could be from a 25% to receive a participation drop from the champ or another "Champ only" drop or a named artifact drop (ie Scholar's Halo or Hawkwind Robe or Tangle etc). This could also be from a bump in the corpse loot; ideally I think this would involve allowing these champs only to return "no-name" legendaries with an assorted mix of max properties.
    For the "Treasures of" Halloween: 
    • There needs to be better spawn AI outside of the champ spawns. What I mean by this is when there is a large increase in monsters being killed, there should also be a bump in the spawn rate automatically. This might be the way it's supposed to be in theory but it doesn't really act this way in reality because when I go to Tram side to kill stuff it seems like I'm doing more searching for stuff to kill than actually killing stuff I find. 
    • I understand the power creep concern but we still need usable gear. At the very least we should be able to get previous drops like boots of escaping / cloak of aug / SSI eps etc. I think we still need a couple desirable new pieces though because in the event I have plenty of boots/cloaks/eps/etc I still want a reason to work the event.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 163
    TimSt said:
    Have the number of paragons dynamic to the number of people in the area / dungeon and despawn them if necessary. For example if you are the only person in Fire there should not be a  large group of paragons chasing after you. Quite frankly the large number of paragons in Fire when there a only a few people there is why I stopped playing the event after a few days. Ice had a workable number that I could handle either with fighting or evading when I was not in the mood for a protracted fight.

    Add invasion spell books to the reward list. 


    Paragons are good. They scare away AFK grinders. The more normal mobs are killed the more paragons appear. 1 of 20.  Killing paras one by one is OK. Killing all stuff and running around whirwinding will spawn lots of paragons. 

    @keven2002 Rabbit pages:  I was coming there with all my chars , got pages. One time I sent my craft there. No fighting skills, just Automaton  (tinkered). And he got  page.  So in theory that is 6 pages per day per account . That is lots of pages if you really need them. I tried , got several times and returned to Yukio grinding. Gave most of pages I got to other players. 

    @Mene_Drachenfels ; for tamers and survival , you need to adapt your tamer. 
    I started this event as tamer- bard. My relaxing PVM char. Did some Yukio runs. Found that quite slow. Made Necro-Tamer-Thrower. Got more tritons. Did earrings way faster. 
    Fire event: I used this tamer-thrower, adapted, changed gear (lots of gear) . Grinded and traded lots of arties. Changed pets ,later  changed skills (necro => healing, tired of para horses and dogs killing me).  Now I can fight Lord Liches, Succubuses , Fire Daemons, Lava eles (paragons , of cource). Can fight para balrons next to the stairs (to retreat).  Averagely have 1 deathrobe per 2-3 Wildfire Arties. 
    Went to Fel. Changed pet again. To the one that can be on his own, fight para Succubus and even Semidar and get score without death each time. I have no vet on me of cource. 
    So you CAN play there as tamer. Just need to adapt your playing style, gear , macroses, skills, pets , everyting. .If you just want to stay with "Consume" on, half-AFK, while your pet is fighting - this event is not for you. Pentagram room  will work may be. Till para balron will spawn there. 

    Yes, I get deathrobes. But it is interesting.  What  you are asking - is something like farming painted caves. Just stay aside and let your pet do the job. This is not how event should be. 
  • Mene_DrachenfelsMene_Drachenfels Posts: 203
    edited July 21

    So you know me so well thanks to your life experience that you judge my playing style, even though we've never crossed paths personally and play-wise? And you have carried this game for over 20 years here and kept it alive? So you're in my moccaassins and running in them, are you?

    If so, you're probably also over 50 years old , have now added some aging ailments like deteriorating eyesight and diminished responsiveness plus various other ailments that you have to deal with on top of a congenital physical disability? How do you adjust for that? That would be interesting to know!

    Maybe I am not better than you. But if you really want to help, you should first get to know the person who writes here about his problems. It's also interesting that you get unsolicited advice of your kind again and again, mostly from players who make their gameplay on this player-made shopping paradise - namely on Atlantic, and not on a low-level shard like Drachenfels or Baja, which you probably don't care about . If your view here is only one-sided, your comparisons are very lame, because the basic systems on the shards may be the same, but the ratios have not been right for a long time.

    I had already written that I tactic in the game like Pawain does here
    ( https://forum.uo.com/discussion/8923/tips-for-treasures-of-wildfire#latest ) recommends. So you seriously want to recommend fitting a 6 x 120 Mage/Tager (Taming, Lore, Vet, Mage, Eval, Medi) with Taming Mastery III. Invasion Slayer Spellbooks are available, and my Armor itself was made by an armor builder specialist and matured and ready except for a minor quirk in Poison Resi. As can be seen from the file, this Armor comes in at +39 INT, +44 MI, + 32 MR, +64 LMC, 2/3 FC/FCR, and 91 and now 73 SDI respectively (48 from the best Invasion Spellbook without Slayer, 30 from Demonslayer). Please tell me how else you'd like to customize this, with usable armor pieces that don't have Antique, Curse, or Briddle and are immediately available without having to search long?
    However, thanks to the excessive Atlantean pricing policy, my best Cu (Chival/Mortal Strike) is only skilled to 115, and something urgently needs to be adjusted here - but the pricing policy, not the Cu.

    As you can see, I have now made myself pretty naked. It would now be interesting to know whether and to what extent you want to follow me and expose yourself in this way. And no, I don't have any urge to push skills on soulstones or to exchange armor parts just because the event supposedly requires it. Do you also suddenly require a Warrior to box down a Demon with his bare fist?

    These so called chilled Mage Bards don't act any different than Tamer/Mages in the end. Only they let completely different puppets dance.
    Anyone who sees me here at Drachenfels knows I'm among those who can fight these goldies well, and believe me I'm certainly no cowardly wimp. I even love this kind of events. But it annoys me immensely when I then enter the dungeon, and such stair-paragon fighters like you immediately put the army of these goldies in front of my nose again. Then I would like to see you also times, if you peel the 10th death robe from your bagpack.

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


    A little less ego-thinking, know-it-all and rumbling compared to others who aren't so "great" and the UO-life would be a whole corner easier

    (Ein bisschen weniger Ego-Denken, Besserwisserei und Rumprollerei anderen gegenüber die halt nicht so "toll sind" und das UO-Leben wäre ne ganze Ecke einfacher)







  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 678
    edited July 21
    Gwen said:

    @ keven2002 Rabbit pages:  I was coming there with all my chars , got pages. One time I sent my craft there. No fighting skills, just Automaton  (tinkered). And he got  page.  So in theory that is 6 pages per day per account . That is lots of pages if you really need them. I tried , got several times and returned to Yukio grinding. Gave most of pages I got to other players. 

    Why should someone need to get on a crafter to get a page because they already received one on their main character? I'm not saying people get a page every spawn but given that there were literally days I'd play my sampire or tamer working the rabbit spawn for 3-4 hours consecutively without a single drop that seems way out of whack. I shouldn't be penalized for using the same character to do the spawn throughout the day.

    Difference between what you and I are talking about it I'm talking actual gameplay over the entire event (lack of drops) and you are talking from 1 time you brought a crafter and got a drop (so it must always be that way). 
  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,830
    I wish you ladies would discuss in German it would be so much more interesting  :p
  • Mene_DrachenfelsMene_Drachenfels Posts: 203
    edited July 21
    McDougle said:
    I wish you ladies would discuss in German it would be so much more interesting  :p

    ;) feel free to use the named translator at the end of my posting and translate back :p

    A little less ego-thinking, know-it-all and rumbling compared to others who aren't so "great" and the UO-life would be a whole corner easier

    (Ein bisschen weniger Ego-Denken, Besserwisserei und Rumprollerei anderen gegenüber die halt nicht so "toll sind" und das UO-Leben wäre ne ganze Ecke einfacher)







  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,830
    aber der Übersetzer verliert so viel so

  • You have PN !

    A little less ego-thinking, know-it-all and rumbling compared to others who aren't so "great" and the UO-life would be a whole corner easier

    (Ein bisschen weniger Ego-Denken, Besserwisserei und Rumprollerei anderen gegenüber die halt nicht so "toll sind" und das UO-Leben wäre ne ganze Ecke einfacher)







  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 678
    To bring things back on focus for dynamic events this fall...

    I think another idea to help with the fear of things lasting forever is to make some of the items very specific to the event and less universal (so people primarily use for the event but not every day afterwards). Example here would be if we are talking fire dungeon make a double axe or bladed staff that was exceptional 100% cold damage & balron slayer (or even Flame slayer). Allow players to fill in the rest via imbuing. This would automatically make them un POF (once imbued) and being a balron slayer is so specific that it wouldn't be used outside of killing balrons (or the fire dungeon later on). 

    @Kyronix - The one thing that many people say that often time seems missed is that when looking for a viable weapon or item to select; the properties really need to work together and be on the right weapon. Take the below fire drop as example. I can't remember the last time I actually saw someone using a kryss in the game; especially in PvM. I understand the thought of trying to maybe make the kryss relevant again... but the properties need to make it worth while and these properties simply do not. Why? Because it's like a mish-mash of properties for some sort of hybrid that likely isn't effective for the spawn (which I'm assuming this is for the spawn given the Flame Slayer). A warrior really has no need for Spell Channel or SDI or FC 1 because those are all mage based properties. Warrior gear is more about dex and less about large mana pools or casting and on top of that, warriors really don't have spells that do much damage (they would also need Eval or Focus to give extra damage from spells). Lastly, the damage increase is only 20% which seems very strange... almost as if it's just there to take a property (why not just make it 50%?). 

    That's just for the mods alone... if you look at the warrior player base, I'd say at least 85% are either swords/macing so why are you putting a fencing weapon there (and if it's anything it should be a leaf blade)? Realistically it should be either a double axe / bladed staff / war hammer / broadsword and then should have Flame Slayer + 100% cold + either 4 other open mods or something like leeches (mana/life/stam) paired with a hit spell and either damage increase or swing speed increase and make it brittle or make it 150 durb. 



  • JuliaJulia Posts: 10

    I will never select a reward that is antique.  I do not keep any antique weapons in loot. Why would I work to build points for a reward one? Short of an antique weapon that says "Dark Lady Slayer" and "Luck 8000" and "MR 10,000" I will NEVER select Antique. I know of no player that selected ANY of the antique rewards. Many have expressed dismay that such a reward was even offered and I agree. The time it took to type those properties in could have been better spent on literally  any other reward because no one is picking those. It bothers me more than it should that not a single member of the dev team realized what a bad idea putting that mod on the rewards would be. When you see players complaining about the devs not playing the game this is exactly the type of thing they will point to as evidence. This sounds harsh, but it is true.

    Reward cost creep has become a serious concern as well. What was the highest cost item from the Doom event, 75? 100 points? When you floated the costs for this set you initially priced the Ostard at 300! I and everyone else lost our mind! 300 points for a mediocre pet?! We talked you down to 200 which was an improvement to be sure, but still far too much. And don't use the event length to justify it. Do the turn-ins for Blackthorn arties continue to rise? No? But that content has lasted months (YEARS)! We should be paying 10,000 points for a crimmy by the logic used to price these rewards.

    Deco rewards should be rock bottom cheap. The only people using deco items are people who have at least one paid account and a house. ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HAVE HOUSES, IT PAYS THE BILLS! The more reward deco that is cheap and appealing, the more people will prolong their participation in the event and the more willing they will be to maintain houses. Having deco items be 75 points is frankly ridiculous. That a player even has to point this out is also ridiculous. HOUSING PAYS THE BILLS, DECO IS MADE FOR HOUSING. DON'T MAKE IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO WANT TO MAINTAIN A HOUSE. There is no balance issue with cheap deco. Cheap deco does not impact PvP, it does not impact crafting, it does not impact actually playing the game in any negative way.

    There is reason to think you at least are listening to *some* input. As mentioned before, you did lower the ostard cost after feedback. You did open the event to Fel. Thank you! Even better, the Yukio Earrings had SDI and luck on a slot we have no options for either of those mods. BIG WIN! The First Aid Belt is blessed to hold bandages. Wonderful! Pages of Lore for 1 drop? SPECTACULAR!

    The Champ Spawns, however, are none of those things. After the first one played, many MANY players just log in each day, fight a few creatures until they get a page, and then leave. The guaranteed drop from boss is fine. The random drops like the statues, great. But give players a reason to FINISH the spawn beyond the first one. In addition to that first guaranteed drop, have the spawn randomly drop some secondary item. But not 1 in 50 spawn occurrences. Every instance of the spawn should drop the item to at least one player. This keeps people interested. Several people have mentioned event related dyes, that would be an idea (though it would be far better to have the dyes as a turn in reward option). People would be happy if the secondary reward was a random reward from a previous event. Just imagine how many people would keep finishing the spawn for a chance at the SSI epaulettes or a 50 SDI spellbook!

    You seem overly concerned about items being "too good" as rewards. Man, the 12 mod legendaries that some of the really wealthy players have are ALWAYS going to be better than your rewards. The goal here is to encourage people to keep playing by offering them something WORTH THEIR TIME. Watering down items and "closing the door" (so to speak) on players who missed the early Shadowguard legendaries isn't conducive to retaining the interest of players.

    Things I REALLY loved about these last few events:

    The various colors and creatures as statues in The Guide spawn.
    SSI Epps. Amazing.
    Spellbook options as rewards.
    First Aid belt.
    Various colored "Treasures of" armor to collect.

    Things I hated:

    The high (and continuing to rise) prices for deco or mid-tier items. It. Is. Dumb.
    Antique. Might as well say "I have a DAoC deadline and am gonna slap random mods" b/c I'd be more likely to select that than anything with Antique.
    Spawn rates too low in all but the top 2 or 3 populated dungeons. Drop rates much to slow for current prices and discourage sustained interest among high numbers of players.

    Kyronix, I know the tone of this is not one that says "This dude is on my side." Think of it as a tough love kinda talk. I truly do think you (and many, many times you alone) are working to improve the game. But the choices you make sometimes seem completely nonsensical. I realize that your work environment has probably led you to a heavy dependence on skooma and the bucc's den bathhouse. It can't be fun working in your shoes a lot of days. And asking for this feedback is great. But there is a next step, and that is understanding and implementing the feedback. That doesn't always seem to happen. So make it happen! A lot of folks took time to provide you feedback here, and if you notice, there is a LOT of repetition in what we are saying. Be a bro man, implement the feedback!

    Lastly, thanks for reading this. Thanks for trying to do a good job. And STOP USING THE ANTIQUE PROPERTY! :)
  • OrichOrich Posts: 18
    @Kyronix
    Most people rely on the Antique jewels so they can PVP and 1 of the most important thing on any jewel is the EP (Enhance Potions), so you really want to open the world for many many many useless jewels that current exist and no one use? 
    Make a new earrings with either:
    •  50% EP  or
    •   25% EP + 15% DCI
    That would open the possibility for so many different templates and people would be able to use imbued jewels and all other current "Antiques" that no one care to use.



  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,089
    I also feel the prices for deco are too high this time. If you want to limit them then allow only one to be bought per toon.
    But I don't know why you would want to limit how many tables etc. we would get. The cost is a limit.
  • DrakelordDrakelord Posts: 1,432
    Water tiles for houses would be very popular as holiday gifts.
    I agree

    Don't use Antique (Use brittle?)
    I agree

    Same thing with paragons.  Mega bonus points please. I really think they're worth it due to the excessive length of time spent dead/getting rez'd/ running around the dungeon trying to find body etc/   There are times when you can die repeatedly to the same freaking paragon. Most people just run by them/ drag them to the nearest person/ ignore them and before long you have a dungeon that is stacked with paragons. Remember, most players are not uber players who have uber suits. We just make character and go play!
    I agree

    I love the everyone gets a drop when killing the champ. But after that, why do it again? Keep the guaranteed drop but also give a 10% chance to get it again on following spawns. I would have done more spawns for the chance at more bandaid belts and Baitlin's Inner Voices.
    Pages of Lore dropping during the spawn was a good in concept, but the drop rate was way too low. I got frustrated and quit trying because my time was better spent doing other content.
    The champs themselves need to be standardized. It's kind of cool having each shard being unique. But some of the EMs, or whoever adds the abilities, go way overboard. One hit kills are not fun at all nor is dumping slime/acid that destroys armor.
    I agree

    1) For weapons, they need to be at least brittle to be realistically useful.

    2) For wearable artifacts, we have already given our feedback.
    a) non-shard bound
    b) pofable
    I agree

    Shard bound pets are not a good idea. How would one not transfer a shard bound pet in their stable when they transfer their characters?
    I agree

    And STOP USING THE ANTIQUE PROPERTY!
    I agree
    Remove Trap = Bad News
    for
    Treasure Hunters
    Drakelord#5598
  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 144
    edited July 22
    :p <3 o:) I see a lot of comments saying how much they love the rewards we've been getting and I agree!

    This has been so good for returning players! I've managed to acquire everything I've missed out on these past years and It feels so good coming back.

    The return of tok items, sdi books, the first aid belt, and then all the awesome new stuff like the sdi earrings, yes yes yes. B)

    I can't tell you how much fun I've had since returning and it all started with the High Seas stuff, which I absolutely loved.

    As far as feedback goes, I agree with most of what I've been reading in the comments and I'll sum it up.
    • Please add guaranteed drop chance just like skill gain, after so many kills you get a drop at champ spawns and in dungeon drops. Most of my characters can't get a drop.
    • Please continue to give a reason to do the entire champ spawn; drops from mobs and rare drops for the boss. (1 or 2 drops per account for the boss)
    • Please use character bound or brittle instead of antique
    • Please lower the prices on reward items
    Rewards I'd like to see:
    • I like the high luck items and would like to see pants, sleeves, gloves and hat (kasa, best hat in game) with High luck, Lrc, Lmc and mana regen and good resists. :D
    • More pets, seeing the ostard  was very exciting also add skins to the store for them

    >:) >:) Halloween: wildfire - the demon that was summoned by the monks starts creating twisted and foul creatures

    Rewards I'd like to see:
    • Glowing or animated mounts - non combat for all players - tainted ridable animals with green, purple, orange or red auras around them from the corruption-- firesteed, nightmare, llama, swamp dragon, and beetle
    • old ship with a ferry man in hooded robe
    • Hanging Halloween lanterns with same kind of pictures as the pumpkins, that glow green, purple, orange or red
    • Halloween tainted cookies or food
    • Tainted weapons radiant scimitar, black staff, large battle axe, halbard, paladin sword, war hammer, kama, gargish talwar
    Well I hope we get something cool this year, thanks!



  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Drago said:
    Bilbo said:
    Drago said:
    Bilbo said:
    McDougle said:
    Bilbo said:
    Drago said:
    RE: Removing antique property

    Introduce item to the game that can remove antique property from an item (quest or rare drop). 
    Restrictions:  limited to 1 per character, 7 per shard.  This might allow a happy medium,
    Mass EJ Accounts would be no problem to fix the limit.
    Make EJ accounts not eligible...
    3 Paid Accounts would give me 525 of them for my home shard or 525 of them to sell on Atl. 
    People with just 1 Account could use 175 of them and then 10 days later delete the gift chars and make new ones for what 150 more per account, why limit them when the work around is simple unless you really want the devs to dig that deep into the code.  What other drop has a limit on it.

    1. Make shard bound
    1. You can only have 7 on 1 shard at a time per account (doesnt matter who converted it).
    People will just take their stuff with them shard hopping, so now I suppose you will say make the gear shard bound.

    Thats what I just said.  Clearly you didn't read my post.  What % of the playerbase actually shard hops? aside from gold farmers? I doubt its the majority. I have 2 paying accounts and 1 EJ. I never use my EJ and never shard hop.

    If shard bound causes other balance issues we cannot think of , maybe instead:
    • have the antique property removed and durability cap decreased from 255.
    Where, clearly you do not know what you write.  Please open up this discussion and tell me when you said anything about SHARD HOPPING.  All most all 14th year vets shard hop just look at all the houses with shard shields.
  • LandicineLandicine Posts: 9
    Antique isn't just a "bad" modifier for a weapon to have; it is a feel-bad modifier. I will explain.

    The most knowledgeable players will realize how bad it is and steer clear. That covers most people on the various forums or Discords connected with UO. Yay! Except, this means that of the 7 or so equipment rewards for this event, three of them are auto-excludes. This tends to create a negative perception of the reward list. Feel bad. 

    For those who don't understand how bad antique is*, they might actually consider choosing some of the weapon rewards. Let's take the Ember of Wildfire. 75 treasures is worth somewhere between 150 and 190 million. Our gargoyle friend takes the new toy out and notices it wears down a lot faster than his other weapons. Suddenly one of the most expensive weapons he owns isn't worth using. Feel bad. 

    * - Cut these players some slack. UO is a complicated game with lots of things going on. 
  • DerajDeraj Posts: 81
    Kyronix said:
    There's been a fair amount of negative feedback about the "Antique" property on various items.  While it would be great to hang on to these items forever, we also have to think long term impacts of the growing power of these items.
    I don't know if my feedback will be very useful, but I post it in good faith. Doesn't this statement sort of spell out the futility of this entire exercise? Power creep is what brought us to this moment. Since the days of AOS especially, players have grown more and more powerful while the environment did not in proportion, ultimately rendering 95%+ of the content in this game pointless, meaningless, obsolete. It is as I have said on this forum before: PvM is fundamentally broken. With each iteration it has gotten duller, requiring juicier rewards, and these rewards only introduce more power creep which makes PvM even duller than before. It is a cycle of "power creep hyper inflation".

    The recent Wildfire event as an example. I logged back in to check it out, and then grinded out just enough artifacts, and no more, to fill a lore book. Yes, some of rewards there are quite impressive. in terms of what they can add to a template. But what is the point of grinding out hours and hours just to gain yet another small measure of power that will make PvM even more boring? There is no actual advancement taking place here. UO has been designed into a corner, and there's no way to get out of this corner through clever rewards because the paradigm is fatally flawed.

    You are right to suggest that these items should maybe not last forever. Antiquing them, while a noble effort, is flawed because Antique is a clumsy attribute. Yet it demonstrates how the life cycle of items has been destroyed over the years through PoF and the introduction of permanent artifacts. Items simply do not cycle enough.

    Therefore here are some of my suggestions. They don't address the immediate problem at hand because I don't think we're going to get anywhere that way. Just for the record, I think the whole game needs to be seriously rebalanced, but that's too huge of a suggestion to make right now and I am trying to hold back on some of my more radical suggestions and focus on keeping the current leaky boat afloat.

    Monster Spawns - At the very least, the monster spawns in these dungeon need to be boosted. There needs to be more, and they need to be tougher. These are dungeons - they should be next level in terms of difficulty and players should be struggling. At the most, dungeons and monsters should be comprehensively more difficult, not strictly in terms of their strength/hp/damage, but in terms of their AI and strategic challenge.

    Multi Play - The weakest point in this MMO. I understand that there may theoretically be some small advantage in partying up. Despite this, most of the players I see running around are solo. Unfortunately I cannot really assess if the system works or not since I cannot see under the hood, but there really needs to be a stronger emphasis on group play and making it worthwhile to team up.

    Repairing - Here is a suggestion that will probably solve a whole lot of problems in this game. Introduce resource consumption for repairs. In other words, to repair things will cost you ingots, leather, gems, or even special ingredients. Every repairable item could have hidden repair factor value that determines how much resources will be required, which scales in proportion of the power level of that item. The types of resources are determined by the resource type and the item properties. This value could also be scaled higher for special rewards, if you chose. "Antique" should be redesigned - rather than causing an item to break faster, it should just impose a hard limit on the number of times it can be repaired. By the way, every single piece of equipment in this game that adds properties to a player should have durability, no exceptions. If you do this, you'll have a much greater ability to customize the life cycle of rewards that maybe you want to be more temporary.

    Go outside the item box - my last suggestion is that we should stop thinking of rewards only as "things I can add to my template" or "things that I can add to my house". Other types of objectives can exist in this game that go beyond cheap pixel dopamine hits. Consider, for example, the Despise Invasion of Britain some years back, except with more consequence. Fighting for objectives, fighting to actually protect a town from something. Fighting to achieve an actual goal. UO should be a dynamic virtual world and the ability of players to prevail, or even sometimes to fail, against the environment and suffer consequences for that would be 1000x more interesting than collecting junk for my junk collection.

    I know you guys are busy with NL though, so I don't have any strong expectations here. But give me some credit, I held back my power level and avoided saying even crazier stuff.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 5,089
    Plan ahead. Put antique items as rewards for advancing the quest that occurs before the spawn or dungeon.

    The soulless seduction quest could have given weapons that could have been used in Fire. Or the deco rewards could have been rewards for advancing the quest.

    We did not have to do most of the latest quest or any of the black gate quest.

    On LS we were not able to enter the sparkle to see the underground parts of the quest.
  • Mene_DrachenfelsMene_Drachenfels Posts: 203
    edited July 23

    First of all: quite great feedbacks here, especially from Julia and from Deraj....here from me 250% approval.

    ---------------

    On the subject of Antique - here is a posting by Kyronix from another thread, which first makes speechless and - I readily admit - first triggered headshaking and some incomprehension. But then you start thinking, especially when the topic becomes game-bearing.

     

    Quote from the thread "Wildfire???", page 3

    First of all - I had to google what Power Creep means. One is only a player, but not a video game developer. For the psychologists, however, this could become interesting at some point, because then, in addition to blatant burnout effects, the experience of self-induced and externally induced compulsions are added ☹ The game is unfortunately now ailing at all corners and ends, and that really makes worry about. If I post something here, I do not do it for me, but always in view of the potential returnees and newcomers, who often do not have to start here nothing in the body at zero.

     

    Just thinking simplistically from someone who doesn't know any better:

    Basic gameplay in a hack & slay game - whether it's UO, Elder Scrolls, Baldur's Gate, Diablo and whatever else is on the market - is basically the same:

    Fight monsters, make gold and see what is useful in the loot and try out and create certain character templates, and that from the beginning. It was like that 20 years ago, and it still is today. Warriors, mages, thieves, and crafters - those are usually the four big basic types that often define the game. In between there are all kinds of fantastic mixed templates. Everyone makes their way here in their own way: Crafters by crafting and warriors, mages just by knocking or casting spells and thieves just by stealing. To make the adventure worthwhile, there is gold and items as loot. If you find something nice or interesting, you take it with you, because you could use it someday, or you don't find anything, then you just leave it. Or there are stores where you can buy gold to improve your game.

    To protect myself, I need equipment, of course. But I don't want it to fall off my body in no time, especially when I'm new in this world. I would like to keep this piece of equipment a little longer. If something breaks, I'll have it repaired or do it myself. As I said before : who guarantees that I can find the same piece again in the loot or buy it in a relatively short time?

    That's how I got to know UO over 20 years ago, and I still remember times when you couldn't insure your equipment. That panic that came up after every death because the corpse wouldn't be there and the healer would be making small talk somewhere. These are primal fears that have consolidated and remained, and partly shape the players here to this day.

     

    Quote Deraj

    Repairing - Here is a suggestion that will probably solve a whole lot of problems in this game. Introduce resource consumption for repairs. In other words, to repair things will cost you ingots, leather, gems, or even special ingredients. Every repairable item could have hidden repair factor value that determines how much resources will be required, which scales in proportion of the power level of that item. The types of resources are determined by the resource type and the item properties. This value could also be scaled higher for special rewards, if you chose. "Antique" should be redesigned - rather than causing an item to break faster, it should just impose a hard limit on the number of times it can be repaired. By the way, every single piece of equipment in this game that adds properties to a player should have durability, no exceptions. If you do this, you'll have a much greater ability to customize the life cycle of rewards that maybe you want to be more temporary.

     

    I had very similar thoughts yesterday. The processes that Deraj has come up with in terms of repairing items are quite well thought out. The term "bad-feeler item", which Landicine uses here, sums it up quite well. This trait definitely has its appeal, but that was quickly lost due to the fact that it breaks way too quickly. "Antique" as a property should really express something so precious that it is also worth taking. I myself understand "Antique" as something very old and very rarely available, and thus actually also as something very worth protecting, which should be handled carefully. But I rather put such items into a showcase. When I have to fight battles in this world, and I will always have to do that here, I think very carefully about whether I put on such an item.

    What is now also very noticeable is that even in the loot the best items lose their value because they too often have this attribute "Antique". These items are sometimes really crass, as far as the other properties on it are concerned. For craftsmen who are not in battles and where the risk is low that it could break, "Antique" is quite OK. But overzealous tailors have no business in war here. I can't kill monsters with sewing needles, I might as well stand there naked.

    "Antique" on the items doesn't have to disappear completely. But don't pile that trait on the items like that anymore - even in normal loot. Think of it as something rare. For both new and long-time players, such loot is a big fun killer. A player will always aspire to better gear if he wants to stand up to stronger monsters. Logically, he will then look to replace what is no longer of use to him. Newcomers and returnees will want to replace their junk armor, and we old bored veterans might tinker with some fantasy shuffle templates for chars that want to be equipped as well.

    Suggestion - (I had already posted this somewhere here in the forum)

    Consider if you can't find a way to have the "Antique" trait removed, e.g. by some kind of "Special Refining". You could create new resources for it, for example, which would keep adventurers and craftsmen alike busy in the game again. New resources would also again be a found food for decorators and interior designers.  The same could be done for "Curse" items or even for "Briddle". Create a recipe for it, for which you need a longer quest series with quest giver, gladly something like now with "Yukios Earrings". Additionally, make it possible for those who have too much gold here to have it removed at a high price (let's say millions) - this would also take gold out of the game again.

     

    In this way, power creep and encounters become more and more difficult. 

    Of course, submitting to such constraints leads to more and more difficulties. It leads to difficulties especially for returnees and newcomers who first have to find their base here again, but who lose their desire very quickly due to totally lousy equipment. It leads to trouble when attempts are made to fulfill completely nonsensical demands, and well thought out advice that would and could really improve the game, advice is not taken, ignored and even blocked.

     

     In closing, I can only echo Julia's words here:

     

    Quote Julia:

    Kyronix, I know the tone of this is not one that says "This dude is on my side." Think of it as a tough love kinda talk. I truly do think you (and many, many times you alone) are working to improve the game. But the choices you make sometimes seem completely nonsensical. I realize that your work environment has probably led you to a heavy dependence on skooma and the bucc's den bathhouse. It can't be fun working in your shoes a lot of days. And asking for this feedback is great. But there is a next step, and that is understanding and implementing the feedback. That doesn't always seem to happen. So make it happen! A lot of folks took time to provide you feedback here, and if you notice, there is a LOT of repetition in what we are saying. Be a bro man, implement the feedback!

     

    I think everyone who has given feedback here is also struggling to keep something alive that we all love so much. I was as proud as Oscar that I was able to convince you, along with Pawain, to adjust the rewards prices in this ongoing event after all.That was a great feeling, and I felt valued.

    I would be even more satisfied if there wasn't this constant urge to make everything even more difficult than it already is - be it through even more violent monsters, totally exaggerated prices for any rewards or even through not really usable items. Sometimes less is more.

       So, now I'll shut my mouth - and keep it shut until I think I need to strain my delicate little voice here again.




    A little less ego-thinking, know-it-all and rumbling compared to others who aren't so "great" and the UO-life would be a whole corner easier

    (Ein bisschen weniger Ego-Denken, Besserwisserei und Rumprollerei anderen gegenüber die halt nicht so "toll sind" und das UO-Leben wäre ne ganze Ecke einfacher)







  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 144
    edited July 23
    If we've worked hard to get something then we should be able to keep it and repair it. In order to stop power creep at this point you'll need to make incentives for players to trash everything and start over.

    Here's a possible answer-- Feeding items from old loot --like to make a bracelet, ring or whatever more powerful you have to feed it old powerful artifacts you get from loot. You can do the same thing with armor and weapons, have bosses drop the cool weapon that needs to be fed.

    Still though, the main item or weapon should not last forever or need ridiculous amounts of resources to feed it, that gets annoying.

    There's very little you can do with a game that has so many different stats except place caps on them; which has already been done.

    In order for returnees and new players to keep up you'll need to recycle the important items from past events, I've suggested daily dungeons before which could have drops to turn in at a npc for past items such as the SDI earrings, first aid belt, bracelets and such.

    edited to add item idea




  • ActionEllyActionElly Posts: 144
    edited July 23
    So that cool weapon I was talking about that would grow in power the more you feed it old artifacts (Lesser, Major, Legendary, whatever) the better the artifact the more points it gets to grow and like named artifacts even better.

    You could have tiered weapons that players would need to replace and I'd just stick with what you already got going such as:

    • Grandmaster
    • Exalted
    • Legendary
    • Mythical
    The higher the tier the more durability and higher properties it gets.

    That's my 2.5 cents but I do like the idea ;)

  • ProtectorProtector Posts: 14
    Regular items have durability (255/255), so all you have to do is lower the upper limit of durability without making antiques (150/150, 75/75, etc.). Furthermore, although there is a negative factor that durability cannot be reinforced, it is not utilized.
    If you make an item that cannot be reinforced and has a low upper limit of durability, instead of an antique that melts and disappears abnormally quickly, you can use it for a reasonable amount of time, and you can be convinced as it is.
    It is better to make it durable, which is between antique and regular items.
  • DerajDeraj Posts: 81

    What is now also very noticeable is that even in the loot the best items lose their value because they too often have this attribute "Antique". These items are sometimes really crass, as far as the other properties on it are concerned. For craftsmen who are not in battles and where the risk is low that it could break, "Antique" is quite OK. But overzealous tailors have no business in war here. I can't kill monsters with sewing needles, I might as well stand there naked.

    "Antique" on the items doesn't have to disappear completely. But don't pile that trait on the items like that anymore - even in normal loot. Think of it as something rare. For both new and long-time players, such loot is a big fun killer. A player will always aspire to better gear if he wants to stand up to stronger monsters. Logically, he will then look to replace what is no longer of use to him. Newcomers and returnees will want to replace their junk armor, and we old bored veterans might tinker with some fantasy shuffle templates for chars that want to be equipped as well.

    I am guessing that the original intention of Antique was to create a situation where some items are "old" and therefore delicate/fragile, but very powerful, so you have players that can put very powerful items on their template but the drawback is they don't last long. It's a noble idea, but there are two fatal flaws. The first being the high cost of custom suits, where each of the components fit together like puzzle pieces, making some parts difficult to replace, hence it's not always a simple matter to just swap out parts when it comes to a very specifically made custom suit. Secondly, the ubiquity of legendaries - quite possibly the worst, most game-breaking gear there is - makes antiques completely pointless. That dynamic can be broken by creating circumstances which lead to a greater reliance on crafted armor, rather than loot armor. This is not to say that loot armor shouldn't be a thing, but speaking generally players should be rely more on crafted armor and the specialized abilities of their template rather than overpowered super-gear.

    Requiring resources for repairs would be a good way to place a higher cost on the use of powerful arms & armor without flat-out removing them from the game. Hypothetically, the design could even go so far as to increase the resource cost gradually over time as gear is racks up repair counts - eventually pricing players out of their armor and compelling them to replace it with new stuff.

    The funny part is that a boost to monsters/dungeons probably wouldn't be as necessary if instead Damage Modifier were heavily nerfed instead, which is a change that actually is needed. That would go a long way towards bringing the playing field closer to a more balanced state.
  • TecloTeclo Posts: 27
    the drops in fel should always be cursed, or atleast prized, it would make things more intresting 
  • JackFlashUkJackFlashUk Posts: 415
    Ban "young" players form all dungeons and event, they are not young at all they are players using free accounts to take the abosolute piss out of the system. Go look in ATL right now, fire dungeon Tram, young players script targeting and killing low end spawn with NO chance of a PARA kill.   How the GM's who are supposed to be policing the dungeons cannot see this is don't know

  • KazKaz Posts: 18
    On the topic of the paragons: I think their power level is fine.  
    Yes, Im one of the folks that re-worked my template so I can go toe to toe with these things.  Yes its annoying trying to kill a fresh mornings batch of paragons (heck this morning I cleared 9 from trammel on catskills in one run through).  But without them, these events would be way too easy, and way too easy to script farm. 
    Heck, we have already seen AFK farmer tamers on all the roof areas of level 2 some evenings.

    my recommendations:
    stay away from antique items, as other have suggested brittle would work in lieu (or drop the price point for antiques super mega low). 

    deceit had amazing rewards, ice had disappointing (and im being kind here) rewards, fire seems to have a good balance of reward strength but prices seem inflated.   

    A slayer talisman for the event as a reward would be amazing, like you did for ice. 

    Overall, Im one of those “returning players”, been back for almost a year and a half now and these events are things I really look forward to and enjoy. Keep up the good work!
     
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