There is only 1 Way to FIX Placing of IDOCS and this is it . . . .

When it comes time for a house to be placed . . . A program quickly recognize all players in the area and randomly selects on of those players and displays a gump to that player only that says "Do yuo want to place a house in this area?" select yes and only u can place the location.
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Comments

  • JepethJepeth Posts: 288
    And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 634
    I agree with you @Jepeth - but is anyone really paying for 50 acct subs?? $500+ a month just on UO subscriptions seems a little extreme...
  • JepethJepeth Posts: 288
    Come on over to Chesapeake and visit the "Sovereign Nation of Mariah."
  • XrisXris Posts: 128
    edited February 15
    Jepeth said:
    And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.

    Yeah I really like the idea to lotto big houses on atl, but I think @Jepeth is right. You could bring 200 accounts to sign up and still break even (or make $ if keep/castle). Although yes IMO they are more entitled to higher odds if they pay subs, but a few top tier houses placers could probably end up with even more houses, which inflates prices. 
  • FortisFortis Posts: 314
    nope everyone will go click on keep and catsle so they dont really have very high % better chance...if you play loto you can win way better chance than presently
  • MargeMarge Posts: 501
    Jepeth said:
    Come on over to Chesapeake and visit the "Sovereign Nation of Mariah."

    LOLOLOLOL
  • KHANKHAN Posts: 394
    I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.
    If you sell UO items for R.L. $$$, you need to quit playing UO , and get a BETTER R.L. JOB!
  • TheoTheo Posts: 99
    Best way to fix it is replace the house with a plot of equal size an hour after the fall. The plot works like an auction - the highest bidder after 1 day gets it like an auction safe.  

    Hear me out : This is already happening on ATL by house placers getting for cheap and selling for market or market inflated rates. Then they take the gold and resell it to the next guy trying to buy a house. 

    By auctioning and deleting gold - two things.  First the house brokers would have to pay for it with gold. That gold is gone. Out of the economy. Then their profit margin is smaller or zero on resell. Basically putting them out of business. 

    After awhile as houses are auctioned for 500m or 1 plat - the gold is gone. Huge gold sink. Prices will fall. The gold simply won’t exist.  On low pop shards the bids will be close to the plot price and be the same as placing.  

    The first bid will be the plot price. 

    This might seem unfair in the short term but in the long run would bring all housing prices down.  Massive ATL gold sink.  House brokers out of business. Scrips non useful. 
  • Jepeth said:
    And if a single person is paying for 50 accounts and brings a character from each one? That doesn't seem any more fair than the Abyss system.
    1 per master Acct 
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    KHAN said:
    I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.

    Sure, let's throw away the baby with the fouled bathwater, how smart... :D ;)
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,500
    There is one thing which I do not understand....

    I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

    I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

    I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

    Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

    That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

    Honestly, I do not understand it.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    popps said:
    There is one thing which I do not understand....

    I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

    I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

    I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

    Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

    That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

    Honestly, I do not understand it.

    Because this would mean to radically rewrite TWO 10+ old Clients, and this, even if feasible at all, would be a HUGE work.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,500
    Ivenor said:
    popps said:
    There is one thing which I do not understand....

    I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

    I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

    I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

    Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

    That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

    Honestly, I do not understand it.

    Because this would mean to radically rewrite TWO 10+ old Clients, and this, even if feasible at all, would be a HUGE work.
    But it would solve all scripting issues for good, rather then dragging them over and over and over some more.... wouldn't it ?
  • MargeMarge Posts: 501
    Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    Marge said:
    Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.
    ^^^^^^^
    This, and, moreover, that kind of Total Overhaul (IF technically feasible) would require something like 1,000% of all the Devs work hours for an undetermined LONG amount of Time.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,500
    edited February 16
    Marge said:
    Not for good - scripters are always writing new codes to work around game mechanics. They are called hackers for a reason - they hack into the system. It may stop them on one issue or for a while but they will find another way. This doesn't mean give up and give them free rein - but don't expect to get rid of them forever.
    Well, perhaps, one way to stop scripting could be putting code into the Client, that would make it "self-shut" down, of course giving a warning of 2 minutes like for Server Maintainance, every time that the Client was to detect scripting going on....

    As much as a script can be smart, I think that it still needs to be repeatitive... that is what a script does, repeat itself, right ?

    Now, what the Client would need to do, is have an alghoritm that reviews characters' behaviour and see if there is "patterns" of behaviour in a given, sufficiently large, time....

    At that point, when the Client "sees" that the pattern repeates itself (which is what a script does...), it would force the Client to shut down and the Account be further investgated by a Game Master for whatever action might be needed, depending on the case.

    This is just one among many suggestions which I would imagine could be brought up... my point being, that I do not see what could can do looking for patching solutions to IDOCs, Gold farming and what not, without addressing for good what is at the root of all these issues, the ability for players to script in Ultima Online.....
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,272
    edited February 16
    As a person who has professionally written scripting software for testing production software for over 12 years removing the ability to script from the clients will have minimal affect. With the right scripting software you can simulate what an actual user does. With minimal effort I can write a script that mimics the slight hand movements a person makes when clicking in a 'I am not a robot' check box and defeat the detection code that looks for that movement to determine if a human or robot was clicking in the box.
  • keven2002keven2002 Posts: 634
    I say we just stop allowing house placement of IDOCs for a few months. 

    After a few months at some randomly decided day/time without notice turn it back on. Then you have all these house spots wide open and there will be tons of plots to choose from!

     :D 
  • popps said:
    There is one thing which I do not understand....

    I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

    I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

    I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

    Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

    That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

    Honestly, I do not understand it.
    I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!  

    I have been arguing for years about this. I also do not understand how they do not combat this at source.   Imagine how good idocs would be if they were reverted to the system 10 years ago but without scripts!!!!!

    People suggest a daily patch, a small patch that will knock out the script programs, and completely block the ability to gain access if unapproved.

    I personnally think its a dev skill flaw.  I just wish they would admit that cant do it and employ someone who will. There is no shame in that.  Combat anyone that uses this game to earn an income, bankrupt them and return the power of the game to the players
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    edited February 16
    keven2002 said:
    I say we just stop allowing house placement of IDOCs for a few months. 

    After a few months at some randomly decided day/time without notice turn it back on. Then you have all these house spots wide open and there will be tons of plots to choose from!

     :D 

    And, for the months of the suspension, we will have something like a 50% (minimum) drop in Active & Paying Accounts, thing that will makes EA so happy, oh, so happy... B) :D
  • TimStTimSt Posts: 1,272
    edited February 16
    @JackFlashUK - As I pointed out the scripters will still be able to script even if the built in scripting engine in the clients is removed. The scripting will be done using commands built into Windows itself to fool the clients into thinking a real human is in control. 
  • vortexvortex Posts: 81
    If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.
  • vortex said:
    If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.
    I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke
  • vortexvortex Posts: 81
    vortex said:
    If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.
    I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke
    Me too... Used to search all around marking runes... Sometimes be there by myself... Got no storage anyways for more stuff and with the cheating I just gave up... They really gotta do something like punkbuster that they talked about Long ago or this not going away don't see much other choice.
  • looploop Posts: 102
    edited February 16
    KHAN said:
    I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.
    I think gameifying IDOCs so that everyone could participate was generally a good move, but I sympathize with the sentiments that IDOCs in today's context don't make a whole lot of sense and just feed players' greed for free stuff with no risk.

    I've wondered why IDOCs are considered a karma-neutral action - even in Trammel. You're looting somebody's house. Perhaps one solution would be to make looting IDOCs a karma-negative action that opens you up for PVP regardless of the facet. Being able to kill one another makes it much harder for scripters.

    Unfortunately, housing is too tightly woven into the business model to just make IDOC loot return to the owner, which I think is the most ethical solution.
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    vortex said:
    If you can't beat them might as well join them as they are doing nothing to stop it seems like...I gave up on idocs Long time ago from the cheating and don't miss it at all.
    I desperately miss the idocs of old, the buzz you get when you have an 18x18 to yourself. I am just angry about what they have become and the appalling effort on the side of the DEV team, instead of tackling cheating they make idocs a joke

    I mostly agree, seeing how, concretely, the last "rewamp" turned out. I was never a Pro IDOCer, but I miss the occasional night passed camped near a crumbling building... :)

    And (from my PoV) making VR and SS evaporate at House Fall added the final Cherry on a Not-Chocolate Pie... :'(
  • IvenorIvenor Posts: 995
    edited February 16
    loop said:
    KHAN said:
    I think its overdue that IDOCs are just deleted. No notices, no timer, and no loot. When it is time, just a big *POOF*At least the scripters will have to be logged, and looking to find the plots.
    I think gameifying IDOCs so that everyone could participate was generally a good move, but I sympathize with the sentiments that IDOCs in today's context don't make a whole lot of sense and just feed players' greed for free stuff with no risk.

    I've wondered why IDOCs are considered a karma-neutral action - even in Trammel. You're looting somebody's house. Perhaps one solution would be to make looting IDOCs a karma-negative action that opens you up for PVP regardless of the facet. Being able to kill one another makes it much harder for scripters.

    Unfortunately, housing is too tightly woven into the business model to just make IDOC loot return to the owner, which I think is the most ethical solution.
    In late 2019 / early 2020 I started on Europa a SoulStones repository for the ones recovered from IDOCs. The House is still there (near Europa Umbra East Gate), with some dozen SS & SS Frags (plus the odd ShardShield Deeds & Tokens) waiting for their lost owners like discarded puppies, but, sadly, I wasn't able to add a single SS from the last IDOC "revamp" on (and already having given them a 15.000 CUB Point Value was a very callous & sad move, IMO).

  • looploop Posts: 102
    popps said:
    There is one thing which I do not understand....

    I hear tons of suggestions from deleting IDOCs outright, to have Lotteries and what not...

    I do not hear 1 single voice saying to simply and just addressing what the ONE ISSUE iswhich causes all this to happen, that is, the ability to script in Ultima Online....

    I mean, scripting does not only affects IDOCs but a whole lot os areas in the game, right ?

    Therefore, rather then always having to run to patch whatever is being scripted be them IDOCs, Gold farming or Gathering resources or what not, why, I really do not understand WHY, once and for all, the one ROOT of all problems is not finally addressed for good.

    That is, ERADICATE the ability for players to script in Ultima Online using Third Party, not approved programs....

    Honestly, I do not understand it.
    I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!  

    I have been arguing for years about this. I also do not understand how they do not combat this at source.   Imagine how good idocs would be if they were reverted to the system 10 years ago but without scripts!!!!!

    People suggest a daily patch, a small patch that will knock out the script programs, and completely block the ability to gain access if unapproved.

    I personnally think its a dev skill flaw.  I just wish they would admit that cant do it and employ someone who will. There is no shame in that.  Combat anyone that uses this game to earn an income, bankrupt them and return the power of the game to the players
    I think we should ask ourselves why people script. On the one hand, it gives players an advantage over others, but we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that scripting makes the game a thousand times more fun. It's a blessing that Broadsword doesn't enforce its own rules because, if they did, they would certainly lose at least half of their player base.

    Just about every action is predicated on something monotonous and Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-inducing: drag and drop this item, use this skill and target this monster, right click to close object handles, drag health bars... It's absurd, and the attempts to modernize these mechanics via the Enhanced Client, which provides less functionality than even the oldest scripting assistant, have failed.

    As for a supposed "place a house script," what's really at play? Just using an item, selecting an option in the gump, and targeting the ground - on loop? 
  • you cant stop scripting at all. look into PVP on atlantic, look all the videos they post on discord, youtube and all, 90% of all players are running different clients, different programs, it is all there, available to anyone and it is 50% faster than the regular and old CC or EC. so yes, you CANT fix.
    and just wait for the new shard to come, will be the same thing. so you can either cry about or you can adapt or join them.
  • XrisXris Posts: 128
    I'm not a programmer, so this is a real question. How much $/time would a full rewrite of the code be? It seems if they started this years ago they'd be in a much better spot.
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