I'm Done With The Ilsh Compassion Spawn

AmberWitch

 2 - 4 of us working the spawn from the start. After a long time, deaths of pets, blah, blah, blah, the Boss pops and 20-30 people, 90% off-sharders appear to get their first aid belt. Same thing with the 2nd one I did. I hid a char outside to watch and one of the people went in to check and would report to the people waiting the number of candles left.

Yeah.

Find someone else to use. I'm done.

Elessar

I'm sorry to hear that.  On LS we've had a good crew for just about every spawn.  Some people are opportunists who just show up at the end, but for the most part people participate in the entire fight.  

Pawain

AmberWitch said:

 2 - 4 of us working the spawn from the start. After a long time, deaths of pets, blah, blah, blah, the Boss pops and 20-30 people, 90% off-sharders appear to get their first aid belt. Same thing with the 2nd one I did. I hid a char outside to watch and one of the people went in to check and would report to the people waiting the number of candles left.

Yeah.

Find someone else to use. I'm done.

I went Atlantic. It was so busy it took 5 tries for a belt. It was the same people killing the boss over and over. 
Went to a dead shard and had to call people in chat to come help.

Maybe you can call your own people to come help? Either your shard is totally dead or there are some who just logged on and don't know about the spawn.

Also, if only two or four are doing it you should welcome the help at the end so you can move to the next one . The only reason to keep doing the spawns are to get statues.

I think I did more than 20 of the spawns yesterday. Set a 30 minute timer when boss dies. 

If I notice new names at the spawn I'll back off the boss so they can get their belts. 
@AmberWitch    We help everyone here why would you not want to help everyone in the game? They are not taking a drop that you would get.

Cookie

I think people need to stop getting upset about the actions of others.

Play your game, enjoy it, do your thing, no-one else is out there trying to positively or negatively influence your game, they are just doing their best thing in their different circumstances to yours.

If you want to walk away, walk away, if you don't, don't. Life will go on.

AtomicBetty

Lol this is funny.

People keep asking for powerscrolls in trammel but this is exactly why it doesn't happen.  And yet you are complaining people are coming in and getting a one time reward when the only other reason to even do the spawn more then once is to actually kill the spawn to get a statue like whats the problem they are not taking anything from you.

Marge

I understand where Amber Witch is coming from. It's was the same problem with the invasions. 100 people there to fight the mages then once the mages are gone so are 97 out of the 100 people. These same leavers would complain when the invasions where still in the same city hours later. It's the same that will happen with Krampus - about 3 people will run all the trade runs to get him to pop while 100 people sit at the docks waiting and show up to kill him. If they would help run the trade orders you could get more boss fights in. It's not that I (or I'm sure she) doesn't want to help others - it's just would be nice if others helped us too.

popps

Marge said:

I understand where Amber Witch is coming from. It's was the same problem with the invasions. 100 people there to fight the mages then once the mages are gone so are 97 out of the 100 people. These same leavers would complain when the invasions where still in the same city hours later. It's the same that will happen with Krampus - about 3 people will run all the trade runs to get him to pop while 100 people sit at the docks waiting and show up to kill him. If they would help run the trade orders you could get more boss fights in. It's not that I (or I'm sure she) doesn't want to help others - it's just would be nice if others helped us too.

Well, I guess the solution would be rather simple....

Just make the odds for a drop increase significantly if one actually FIGHTS the spawn, or does the Trade Orders for Krampus ....

At that point, in order to increase their chances at a drop, players would actually playout the entire Event and not just the "last kill" thing.....

Pawain

Marge said:

I understand where Amber Witch is coming from. It's was the same problem with the invasions. 100 people there to fight the mages then once the mages are gone so are 97 out of the 100 people. These same leavers would complain when the invasions where still in the same city hours later. It's the same that will happen with Krampus - about 3 people will run all the trade runs to get him to pop while 100 people sit at the docks waiting and show up to kill him. If they would help run the trade orders you could get more boss fights in. It's not that I (or I'm sure she) doesn't want to help others - it's just would be nice if others helped us too.

It's not me, when I take a toon to another shard, I am standing there to turn on the idol and stay till it is done.  The Black Gate boss was a lot more difficult than this one. You wished someone from another shard would come kill it a week after the event started.

Also on Krampus, if you did the trade routes you get a drop.  You wish a crowd will come so you can get on to the next one.

These players coming to kill The Guide or Krampus are taking drops from you. This is not like generals in the invasions.

Daisy

Marge said:

I understand where Amber Witch is coming from. It's was the same problem with the invasions. 100 people there to fight the mages then once the mages are gone so are 97 out of the 100 people. These same leavers would complain when the invasions where still in the same city hours later. It's the same that will happen with Krampus - about 3 people will run all the trade runs to get him to pop while 100 people sit at the docks waiting and show up to kill him. If they would help run the trade orders you could get more boss fights in. It's not that I (or I'm sure she) doesn't want to help others - it's just would be nice if others helped us too.

Amen

AtomicBetty

I tend to scout shard to shard and if I see a champ is close to spawning I will run in as many accounts as I can to try and get a belt and then leave for the next. Once I got belts on what I can I am done with the event.

Pawain

See those people will be gone in a few days so your group of 2 to 4 will be the only ones there.

AmberWitch

If you can't understand this about human nature, then there is nothing I can say. Either you have the compassion to understand it or your don't. It's pretty simple.

 

Elessar

Marge said:

I understand where Amber Witch is coming from. It's was the same problem with the invasions. 100 people there to fight the mages then once the mages are gone so are 97 out of the 100 people. These same leavers would complain when the invasions where still in the same city hours later. It's the same that will happen with Krampus - about 3 people will run all the trade runs to get him to pop while 100 people sit at the docks waiting and show up to kill him. If they would help run the trade orders you could get more boss fights in. It's not that I (or I'm sure she) doesn't want to help others - it's just would be nice if others helped us too.

I agree with everything you said here. 

However, with the Guide spawn, people are chasing the statues - and those drop by killing the spawn, not the boss.  

So while I agree with your description of the infuriatingly-selfish behavior of so many people, in this case it does them no good.  Swooping in to help kill the boss isn't likely to get them a statue.  

Seth

The first aid belt is a one-time, sure drop from the boss, as long as there is looting rights. I don't think it takes alot of damage to get looting rights.

There is nothing to gain to repeatedly kill the boss, and I will be happy if many people jumped in to help kill the boss so the champ spawn can repeat and small mobs are easier to kill.

The statue does not drop from the boss, anyone can get one anytime by killing the mobs.

So I don't see why this is same as invasion. I have already stopped because there is nothing else to get from the boss. What did I miss?

Seth

To add on, it is unlike Invasion where the amount of damage equates to the quality of the spellbook.

The only reason I would do the hide and fight the boss trick is when my character is not efficient in clearing the mob. I may send in my sampire to clear the mob, then use my other character to get some damage on the boss to get looting rights, then and finally send my sampire back to finish it up.

So if there are 100 people waiting at the end to kill the boss - this is Not invasion - so you are welcomed.

Pawain

We are still going after each spawn on LS. I've done 5 today and only 1 statue.  Maybe we just like killing stuff.

Mene_Drachenfels

I’m totally with you @AmberWitch.

Exactly this kind of human behavior, what she describes is exactly what many in UO here are messing up the fun of playing – that some real assholes (no, not sorry – they are!) think that they have a special status here, which entitles them to destroy the fun of the game with impunity over and over again. It doesn’t matter whether it’s been the Felu-Champs for years or the newer events in Trammel – Treasures of. . . or Dynamic-Spawns – this sort of egoist has been getting away with impunity for years! You can’t get rid of that feeling and it’s getting pretty pissed off by now. There is always a taste that is not done at all against these very egoists here – and that, although many lawsuits have already come against such idiots.

PKler or many of the more hardened players here, maybe even female players may see it differently - interpret this as howling and sissying, but everyone ticks differently - and women generally tick differently. It's a genetic trait. Women also generally play differently! Women like Amber Witch and many other players like to help and sacrifice themselves for things that others wouldn't even dream of doing. Of course there are also men who do something like that, I don't want to deny that, but such guys are like pearls in a haystack. Basically, those players who sacrifice and help themselves and actually take on a role model role are the true heroes of the game, and not those completely overpowered guys who, as seen in Deceit the other day, run away from a golden paragon and put it in front of other players and returnees because they can't handle it despite their great equipment.

Of course the Dev’s and Broadsword probably do something against it – you can always read in the great newsletter, which comes out every few weeks. But is that enough? And is that enough in the end for the now rethought great Legady-Shard, which will come now, then this will also be the success he promises?

Pawain

Mene_Drachenfels said:

I’m totally with you @ AmberWitch.

Exactly this kind of human behavior, what she describes is exactly what many in UO here are messing up the fun of playing – that some real assholes (no, not sorry – they are!) think that they have a special status here, which entitles them to destroy the fun of the game with impunity over and over again. It doesn’t matter whether it’s been the Felu-Champs for years or the newer events in Trammel – Treasures of. . . or Dynamic-Spawns – this sort of egoist has been getting away with impunity for years! You can’t get rid of that feeling and it’s getting pretty pissed off by now. There is always a taste that is not done at all against these very egoists here – and that, although many lawsuits have already come against such idiots.

PKler or many of the more hardened players here, maybe even female players may see it differently - interpret this as howling and sissying, but everyone ticks differently - and women generally tick differently. It's a genetic trait. Women also generally play differently! Women like Amber Witch and many other players like to help and sacrifice themselves for things that others wouldn't even dream of doing. Of course there are also men who do something like that, I don't want to deny that, but such guys are like pearls in a haystack. Basically, those players who sacrifice and help themselves and actually take on a role model role are the true heroes of the game, and not those completely overpowered guys who, as seen in Deceit the other day, run away from a golden paragon and put it in front of other players and returnees because they can't handle it despite their great equipment.

Of course the Dev’s and Broadsword probably do something against it – you can always read in the great newsletter, which comes out every few weeks. But is that enough? And is that enough in the end for the now rethought great Legady-Shard, which will come now, then this will also be the success he promises?

How are they ruining your fun by killing the boss fast?  Obviously the players wanted to do the spawn or they would not have started it. Then they complain when others join at the end.  Them killing the boss does not affect your drops.  It just ends the spawn so you can move on to the next one.

In a week there will be no one doing the spawn on small shards and they will wish someone will kill the Boss so the spawn can start over.

I yell out in chat when the boss pops so others can come kill it.  I already got the belt, why stop others from getting it.

TimSt

I had the opposite happen. When the boss popped late at night every one left and I ended up trying to solo him with my tamer. It was a stand off. Two other people eventually showed up but after a while I got tired of the little progress we made and left. 

Mene_Drachenfels

Ah yes. . . @Pawain

that you are an experienced player who is happy to help and share his knowledge we know. You often and like to share and give advice on how to do something better and maybe should. But let’s be honest now – ask yourself, if you really enjoy it, if you do all the work before, so that the boss appears on which you are personally also looking forward to and on the drop, suddenly a gang of vultures pops up out of nowhere and kills him in 0. 3 seconds, that makes you a lot of fun? The boss dies faster than you can breathe, you will not be able to put a stupid fireball on it, gets absolutly no looting rights therefore no drop of belt – even experienced. Didn’t you say yourself that you needed 5 starts on ATL because it was too crowded?

 So even with the best will and knowledge, some things here are not always as feasible as you would like this for yourself – and I just stink if I may bake the cake, but not eat a piece of it myself.

Seth

I don't think its that easy to kill that boss, unless its Atlantic where maybe 100 players attack same time with 100 Kal Vas Flam. 

Even so, i dont see any motivation to waste time, not going to get another healing belt or 50 sdi spell book.

keven2002

@AmberWitch - have you seen the loot on the champ (The Guide)? It's crap. 

To be clear, this is nothing like the invasion where there were only a few mage generals with limited drops. This is almost like being on Oprah.... you get a belt, you get a belt.... you aren't losing your first aid belt drop because 10 others show up and kill the champ.

So you aren't losing out on loot because it's junk, you aren't losing out on the belt (plus you only get one), you aren't losing out on statues (they seem to drop easier on lower levels), it's tram so you aren't losing out on power scrolls..... So what exactly is the reason you are getting mad and quitting aside from principle since you aren't losing out on anything by others joining?

I could actually say it's kind of selfish on your end that you think because you started the spawn from the first 3 levels that you own the spawn until finish. The fact of the matter is that it sounds like it took your crew some time to get the boss to pop so if I didn't start it with your crew I need to wait until you kill the boss to join? 

Cookie

Mene_Drachenfels said:

I’m totally with you @ AmberWitch.

Exactly this kind of human behavior, what she describes is exactly what many in UO here are messing up the fun of playing – that some real assholes (no, not sorry – they are!) think that they have a special status here, which entitles them to destroy the fun of the game with impunity over and over again. It doesn’t matter whether it’s been the Felu-Champs for years or the newer events in Trammel – Treasures of. . . or Dynamic-Spawns – this sort of egoist has been getting away with impunity for years! You can’t get rid of that feeling and it’s getting pretty pissed off by now. There is always a taste that is not done at all against these very egoists here – and that, although many lawsuits have already come against such idiots.

PKler or many of the more hardened players here, maybe even female players may see it differently - interpret this as howling and sissying, but everyone ticks differently - and women generally tick differently. It's a genetic trait. Women also generally play differently! Women like Amber Witch and many other players like to help and sacrifice themselves for things that others wouldn't even dream of doing. Of course there are also men who do something like that, I don't want to deny that, but such guys are like pearls in a haystack. Basically, those players who sacrifice and help themselves and actually take on a role model role are the true heroes of the game, and not those completely overpowered guys who, as seen in Deceit the other day, run away from a golden paragon and put it in front of other players and returnees because they can't handle it despite their great equipment.

Of course the Dev’s and Broadsword probably do something against it – you can always read in the great newsletter, which comes out every few weeks. But is that enough? And is that enough in the end for the now rethought great Legady-Shard, which will come now, then this will also be the success he promises?

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for what you are writing, think about it.

Yes, players who put themselves out to help others are role-models and heroes - but the second they start losing it or getting infuriated by others who are are only exhibiting features of human nature, then they are sort of losing it themselves, and starting to believe their own hype - it becomes a {be like me because I'm the best way to be, or I have the right to have a negative opinion of you because you aren't like me} sort of scenario.

Everyone is different, everyone is motivated by different things, and have different situations in life, have different priorities on time, or how they perceive efficiency, and it is up to YOU to adapt to everyone, NOT the other way around.

The beauty of Felucca, was it sort of taught people to get used to, adapt, and learn how to get along with everyone. The weakness of Trammel, is it closeted players into an unrealistic safe environment, and they start exhibiting all sorts of passive aggressiveness like you guys and girls are displaying when you don't get everyone acting like you want them to.

Regarding the Invasion Spellbooks - this was purely very  bad design by the Developers - I said this at the time. Human Nature is what it is, and sadly, some humans are going to be utmost efficient, and use the work of others to achieve their own ends - maybe they are selfish, maybe they are clever and cynical, maybe they have no other choice in life. Don't judge.

Pawain

HMene_Drachenfels said:

Ah yes. . . @ Pawain

that you are an experienced player who is happy to help and share his knowledge we know. You often and like to share and give advice on how to do something better and maybe should. But let’s be honest now – ask yourself, if you really enjoy it, if you do all the work before, so that the boss appears on which you are personally also looking forward to and on the drop, suddenly a gang of vultures pops up out of nowhere and kills him in 0. 3 seconds, that makes you a lot of fun? The boss dies faster than you can breathe, you will not be able to put a stupid fireball on it, gets absolutly no looting rights therefore no drop of belt – even experienced. Didn’t you say yourself that you needed 5 starts on ATL because it was too crowded?

 So even with the best will and knowledge, some things here are not always as feasible as you would like this for yourself – and I just stink if I may bake the cake, but not eat a piece of it myself.

 If I am alone when the spawn begens, I'll yet in chat to come get your participation drops. If I could keep quiet I'd probably have a better chance of getting my own drops.

I like to kill stuff so faster it's over the sooner the next one starts. Also like to play in a group even if we don't say a word.

Being frustrated because someone comes in for the boss is foreign to me.
It would only matter if the boss dropped 3 items each boss and people did it then.

Marge

Think everyone is focusing on the wrong thing. It's not so much they only attack the boss then leave with this event. It is twenty something years of they only come for a minute at the most opportune time for a drop then leave.(It is often the final boss but it is also the level a certain drop falls.)

What she is mad about (and what many of us lose our patience with) is what is in her example. A person comes and looks to see what level the event is at then leaves - rinse and repeat until a certain time / level is there. They fight for a bit get their item and leave again. This leaves a handful of people to fight the rest. If they can continuously check on the progress - why can't they stay and help!!!!

Mene_Drachenfels

Cookie said:

Mene_Drachenfels said:

I’m totally with you @ AmberWitch.

Exactly this kind of human behavior, what she describes is exactly what many in UO here are messing up the fun of playing – that some real assholes (no, not sorry – they are!) think that they have a special status here, which entitles them to destroy the fun of the game with impunity over and over again. It doesn’t matter whether it’s been the Felu-Champs for years or the newer events in Trammel – Treasures of. . . or Dynamic-Spawns – this sort of egoist has been getting away with impunity for years! You can’t get rid of that feeling and it’s getting pretty pissed off by now. There is always a taste that is not done at all against these very egoists here – and that, although many lawsuits have already come against such idiots.

PKler or many of the more hardened players here, maybe even female players may see it differently - interpret this as howling and sissying, but everyone ticks differently - and women generally tick differently. It's a genetic trait. Women also generally play differently! Women like Amber Witch and many other players like to help and sacrifice themselves for things that others wouldn't even dream of doing. Of course there are also men who do something like that, I don't want to deny that, but such guys are like pearls in a haystack. Basically, those players who sacrifice and help themselves and actually take on a role model role are the true heroes of the game, and not those completely overpowered guys who, as seen in Deceit the other day, run away from a golden paragon and put it in front of other players and returnees because they can't handle it despite their great equipment.

Of course the Dev’s and Broadsword probably do something against it – you can always read in the great newsletter, which comes out every few weeks. But is that enough? And is that enough in the end for the now rethought great Legady-Shard, which will come now, then this will also be the success he promises?

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for what you are writing, think about it.

Yes, players who put themselves out to help others are role-models and heroes - but the second they start losing it or getting infuriated by others who are are only exhibiting features of human nature, then they are sort of losing it themselves, and starting to believe their own hype - it becomes a {be like me because I'm the best way to be, or I have the right to have a negative opinion of you because you aren't like me} sort of scenario.

Everyone is different, everyone is motivated by different things, and have different situations in life, have different priorities on time, or how they perceive efficiency, and it is up to YOU to adapt to everyone, NOT the other way around.

The beauty of Felucca, was it sort of taught people to get used to, adapt, and learn how to get along with everyone. The weakness of Trammel, is it closeted players into an unrealistic safe environment, and they start exhibiting all sorts of passive aggressiveness like you guys and girls are displaying when you don't get everyone acting like you want them to.

Regarding the Invasion Spellbooks - this was purely very  bad design by the Developers - I said this at the time. Human Nature is what it is, and sadly, some humans are going to be utmost efficient, and use the work of others to achieve their own ends - maybe they are selfish, maybe they are clever and cynical, maybe they have no other choice in life. Don't judge.

@ Cookie

I do not condemn anything and nobody – I only note how it is here:). This will still be allowed – and I will also be allowed to have an opinion on certain issues after more than 20 years in this special world of game and to be allowed to express it. This is my right:)

We cannot deny that the behaviour of players has changed a lot during this time – thanks to these other priorities in terms of time, perception and efficiency. This can be seen on a daily basis – not only here in some computer games, but it is now a big social problem.

It’s nice if you can always and immediately adapt to every occasion and stay as cool and relaxed as possible – maybe you’re one of those pearls in the haystack, do I know that? But before you can tell me, I have to adapt, not others, you should first run around me in my shoes for at least 4 weeks or better longer before you judge me (> for info: old Indian proverb)

My life experience is determined by a very personal destiny, namely by a severe, inborn physical disability and various diseases, which one does not of course look at my super healthy game figure. It may be that I don’t always have the clearest vision for a thing or a problem here and then sometimes “eaten up. ” I don’t need your pity. I’ve had enough bricks in my life that others have thrown on my head  – of course completely unintentional

Nevertheless I am tolerant enough and respect other opinions, if they are brought across to me in a reasonable way. But purely from my life experience I would like to say that you are not always as cool as you present yourself .

It's quite beside the point that in a game world where the theme "virtues" is a big headline and represents the vision of some here - even becomes part of event series, that on some days you can't see any of it at all.

popps

Mene_Drachenfels said:

It's quite beside the point that in a game world where the theme "virtues" is a big headline and represents the vision of some here - even becomes part of event series, that on some days you can't see any of it at all.

Quite a good point there.

Pawain

Just so you know that there are some players that want to contribute on other shards. There is a guy in chat from Atl that is collecting a training suit so he can skill up and do the content for his Belt on LS.  He doesn't want the free ride.

Seth

TimSt said:

I had the opposite happen. When the boss popped late at night every one left and I ended up trying to solo him with my tamer. It was a stand off. Two other people eventually showed up but after a while I got tired of the little progress we made and left. 

I think everyone missed this, which is true, there is no incentive to kill boss... 

I still think the TOT and TOD type of quest is better than Black Gate and this one. The reward is not a direct drop, and hence more reason for players to hang around. Also the boss should award more "points" for the drop, like the paragon. 

TOD has been an improvement over TOT and was a great success, so they should continue with such event.

However, Black Gate and Forest event type seems like a good "break" in between the daily-grinding, Treasure-type events.

keven2002

Seth said:

However, Black Gate and Forest event type seems like a good "break" in between the daily-grinding, Treasure-type events.

I agree. Especially as we get into December where Krampus/Artisan events will begin.

It allows people to participate in the Forest event as they can to fill the gap between now and December while getting an item many people have asked for (and statues to collect) without it being super grindy (collecting statues aside).  

This is perfect to keep my attention on something different to do while I recover from ToD grind and prepare for the Krampus/Artisan grind. 

Cinderella

How much damage are you supposed to do to get looting rights?
I did almost 700 damage on Sonoma (on hubbys char) and didn't get looting rights.
It gets frustrating when you do damage, and people say all they did was heal.

And Atlantic is a joke.
I have been trying to get the belt on one char & just can't do it.
I lost track of how many times I've tried.
And I keep seeing the exact same people killing The Guide.

When the boss dies, the spawn disappears.
If you've already gotten the first aid belt, attack the spawn.
Let the people who haven't gotten it be able to attack.