UO not noob friendly

I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.
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Comments

  • yes it can be frustrating.  I lucked out on my shard and got in a great guild.  One thing that I noticed is that many of the fel dungeons are the same as the old school.  Not changed like the Trammel ones.  Yes we could use some new blood, but on chessy, I see a new player every day or two.  Its nice to help them  out a bit.
  • poppspopps Posts: 2,502
    dara said:
    I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.
    I have been saying it for a long time now....

    This is the result of extreme itemization of the game.

    Veteran players keep piling up items which are increasingly more powerfull, and consequentially, the Developers need to put out items more powerfull again to keep Veteran players interested in the game.

    Of course, then the MoBs need to be "beefed up" to catch up with these new items more and more powerfull and the end result is that this vicious circle makes it impossible or way too hard for new or returning players to play....

    A good step in the right direction was with Masteries, to my opinion, where "real" skill points were made to matter more as compared to item skill points, but it has not been enough, me thinks.

    It is necessary to progressively make items less important and real skills more important...

    Perhaps an idea could be to have "super Masteries", that is, Masteries not tied up to only 1 skill, but tied up to a combination of skills so as to force players, if they wanted to use the advantages from these Super Masteries, to have to invest on their Templates in "real" skill points not for just 1 skill, but for 4 or 5 or even 6 skills.....

    Recently the New Legacy Server was announced and, supposedly, players will all have a "new" start there thus voiding the current difference between Veteran players and new and returning players, but no release date has been given so, I am not sure how far it might be.

    I do not like the importance that has been given over the Years to items in Ultima Online.... I much more preferred the way that it was back in the days, where regular armor and weapons where used....

    I am not sure how this situation could be reversed and thus deprive items of their current importance, but I sure would love to see Ultima Online go back to a game where items did not have the importance that they have now, on a template.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited October 2020
    dara said:
    I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.


    You are completely correct, I agree.

    I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

    For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

    There is no structure.

    There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

    The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

    New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

    This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

    • Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
    • New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
    • Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
    • Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
    • Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
    • Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
    • Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
    • Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
    • Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
    • Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
    • Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
    • Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
    • Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
    • {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
    • W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
    • Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
    • Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
    • Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
    • Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
    • Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
    • Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
    • I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
    • May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
    • Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...


    So @dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited October 2020
    Of_Beasts said:
    yes it can be frustrating.  I lucked out on my shard and got in a great guild.  One thing that I noticed is that many of the fel dungeons are the same as the old school.  Not changed like the Trammel ones.  Yes we could use some new blood, but on chessy, I see a new player every day or two.  Its nice to help them  out a bit.


    I'm going to agree with this post also, this is how to do it.

    Ultima Online is a team game, it's really designed to help each other progress. Going solo is not easy at all.

    We as a guild, help a lot of new players progress, we need the activity levels for our hunts, we need PvPers for Felucca, new players benefit by getting the rewards of our efforts.

    The difficulty is, there are often far more new players, than there are structured guilds who can help them, we can only take in so many, and we have to stay balanced. We also cannot get items as fast as people think we can, we often get asked for Legendary this and that, especially jewellery, which costs say 200m and we don't even have to hand ourselves. New player requirements and expectations can be quite high, or unrealistic, they do not always appreciate how hard it is to get stuff for them.

  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 420
    Have to agree new players without mentors to provide them with the guidance on how to play their characters and the assets they need to survive don’t last long.  For the most part UO ignores the needs of new players.  Training consists of a numerical skill gain but no information at all on how to play the character.  Although Wikis provide template building information, none provide any clues on how to play the character.  If it were not for third party sites on the internet, most new players would not have a clue as to how the game is played.  Players participating in these forums provide good information to new players but I don’t really remember UO ever mentioning the existence of them in a daily hint or anywhere else. 
    Might help if UO designed a few meaningful quests for melee fighters and spell casters to help them develop.  There used to be a few players that spent some time in New Haven helping out new players.  Some of them helped me.  I don’t see them anymore.  Don’t see many new players anymore either.  Maybe, the new shard will help.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,904
    How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    Pawain said:
    How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.


    I do completely agree and understand this - but, this is why they are having to create the New Legacy Shard, to simplify down the introduction to the game.

    When we started, there was so much less, and it was easier to get into.

    Since then, we have 23 years of accumulated knowledge and systems all built on top of each other and going different directions, with many systems/quests/skills/templates/items even being obsolete.

    How is a new player going to know where to go, or how to progress.

    It would really help if there was more structure at the front end, you really have to play it in the way I have been, with new players, to experience this.

    My 9 year old instantaneously wanted to be a Tamer, Necro, Mystic, Rogue right off the bat, without really having any clue what any of this involved or how to get there.


  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Cookie said:
    dara said:
    I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.


    You are completely correct, I agree.

    I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

    For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

    There is no structure.

    There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

    The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

    New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

    This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

    • Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
    • New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
    • Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
    • Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
    • Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
    • Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
    • Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
    • Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
    • Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
    • Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
    • Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
    • Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
    • Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
    • {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
    • W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
    • Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
    • Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
    • Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
    • Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
    • Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
    • Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
    • I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
    • May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
    • Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...


    So @ dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.


    Nice write up @Cookie
  • BilboBilbo Posts: 2,834
    Pawain said:
    How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.
    Sadly the time of Guilds or large groups is gone, to many things can be soled or with 2-3 people.
  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,770Moderator
    Not as comprehensive as Cookie's road map, but there is some guidance here


  • poppspopps Posts: 2,502
    edited October 2020
    Cookie said:
    dara said:
    I know this has been talked about but as a returning vet I must say , Im pretty discouraged. I opened two accts and bought a few ex packs but not sure if it was worth it. The game is not geared towards new players or old ones. The inflation is off the charts, the old dungeons are out of control. Shame used to be fun but now its just way to much. It was a great dungeon you had nice levels of play all the way through. New players ,unless coming in to one of the few guilds left wont stay long. I get change happens and blah blah but some things are just to much. Oh well it is what is, stay or go it wont matter, but for a game that could use some new blood , changing back a few things would help new players and retain the feel of old UO that alot of people miss. Dont go off on my opinion , its just that ,an opinion of one old vet.


    You are completely correct, I agree.

    I'm going to disagree with Popp's version of events, where of course it is the Veteran players to blame for all of this. Boring, and wrong.

    For the last few months, I have been playing the game with my 2 boys, a 9 year old, and a 12 year old, and the main problem with UO is, there is absolutely no road-map for a new player. They are intelligent kids, who happily take on many new games and succeed in them, but they have both said, they wouldn't have known where to start in UO, there is absolutely no manual.

    There is no structure.

    There is no linking skill gains, or template choice, with a suitable level mob or monster to get the relevant armour or gear off, to feel you are progressing in a uniform manner. Quite often Skills training has to be done first, and independently of gaining armour, as the Mobs to gain items off are way too hard for new players.

    The Devs did try and sort out the Quest engine a little, it's better, but still not greatly useful.

    New Haven works as a starter point, but then where do they go? My 2 boys started gargoyles alongside 1 I created with them to experience the journey with them, and there was nowhere for them to hunt, where they could get any sort of mobs their level, to help them gear up. It's taken a Vet of my ability, to try and create a fun and structured road-map for them.

    This is my Road-Map so far, and I'd love to see any New or Returning Player come up with this intuitively;

    • Started on Endless Journey accounts to see if they liked UO, they love it.
    • New Haven/Royal City to get the basics and train skills.
    • Dungeon Deceit Trammel to collect a Bandage stock and train skills.
    • Enslaved Goblins Mini Champ got them Storm Caller x 2.
    • Tyballs Shadow - got them Shroud of the Condemned x 3.
    • Reknowned Acid Elemental got them Berserkers Breastplate x 2.
    • Joined W guild and a kind crafter gave them a decent set of imbued armour x 2.
    • Guild leader gave my Garg Mystic Parry Mage support a legendary suit of armour.
    • Did Harrower with guild, got ourselves 3x  +25 Stat scrolls.
    • Farmed Exodus Dungeon for Exodus Keys, went in with guild 3 times, got 3 x +5 Stat scrolls.
    • Could not equip Corguls Sash because don't have High Sea's expansion. No Sash Slot yet.
    • Treaures of Deceit Event came out - with incredible Dexxer rewards, and incredible rewards all round, went into intense farming in Deceit, to get items, and really push/complete the skills training.
    • Have subbed 1 of the 3 EJ accounts to make the farming easier, to be able to use the full bank account, and to be able to use Bags of Sending for the team. Now have 2/4 accounts subbed, costing me £100 every 6 months, to sub the final 2, will cost me £200 every 6 months - quite a lot for a game, so really want to plan the progression right to make it all worth it.
    • {Solen Tunnels and Quests to collect Bags of Sending, and Powders of Translocation}.
    • W guild kindly gave my boys many of the 120 scrolls they needed, to really maximise their training, almost completed all skills to 6x120 in Treasures of Deceit.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x SSI 10 Epaulettes for the Throwers.
    • Got enough item drops for 2 x Boots of Escaping for the Throwers.
    • Was really hoping they would be able to get First Aid Belt in the event, but this is not to be, this Belt is crucial to their template set-up, so hoping it gets fixed and drops from a future event.
    • Did the Black Gate event for 2 x Batlins Talismans, but also my Crafter got them 2 x Clean-up rewards Soldiers Medals for 600k clean-up points.
    • Will then progress to farming Navrey and Dreadhorn for Tangle/Crimson Cincture after this event.
    • Will then go to Illshenar to farm Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash.
    • Will then take them to Felucca, where of course they were born to be, and will do Champion Spawns, and try and make gold to obtain better jewellery/armour pieces.
    • Will also spam Roof, for Cameos'/armour drops, Medusa's for Slither.
    • I have very special Shields I want to use for them, this is going to require my Crafter to go mental to get Valorite Hammers, and to try and get the precise Greater Reforged items x 3 I am after.
    • May want to throw in farming the Secret Garden Mini Champ for Jade Dragon Ear-rings.
    • Cannot use or equip Masteries - don't have Eodon Expansion pack yet...


    So @ dara or any other new/returning player - this is how I approached it, I tried to do a lot of it myself where I could, but I did get a lot of guild help, from a Veteran guild. Maybe this can help for ideas and a progression path.


    That is a good Guide.... but for a Dexer....

    What if the "Newcomer" wants to be a Tamer ? Or a Bard ? Or a Thief ? And on and on with the many Templates possible in Ultima Online....

    And even for a Dexer, the items change, depending on "what type" of a Dexer one wants to play...

    A Sampire ? A Paladin ? A Dragoon ? And there is quite a few more... and the farming for their suit pieces would change, depending on what type of Template the player would want to play and enjoy...

    What lacks, really, is Guidance to : 

    # 1) - A Comprehensive listing of all of the Templates and "hybrid" Templates possible in Ultima Online ;

    # 2) - What Armor and Weapons items would be needed (and where to find them) in accordance to the type of Template or Hybrid Template that the new or returning player has chosen to play.

    Or, I should say, this information might be existing, somewhere hidden in some players' site or in some Post, maybe from Years ago.... what does not exist, that I know of, is a single place where one could find all of these info in one single place....

    Possibly, the UO Wiki could be a good place to gather such informations but it would need first @Mariah to be willing to implement these informations, and then Veteran players, each having experience and knowledge in a given Template, to provide to her such informations as to how to make a Sampire, with what skills, stats, gear, weapons, and where to farm for those items, or a Dragoon, or an ABC Archer, or a whatever, and still provide to Mariah the related informations which she could then all put on the UO Wiki for New and Returning players to find them all in 1 single place and then pick the Template which they think they can most enjoy and go from their on their Ultima Online's new Journey....

    It would require a comprehensive effort from Veteran players knowledged about all of these high end Templates and Mariah, all contributing to put these info in 1 single spot, the UO Wiki.
  • Pawain said:
    How do you make a guide for a game that has no goals and no end?  You can doo hundreds of things.
    You will have to make many guides, with many sub-guides.  it would have to be very detailed and comprehensive and we would have to find someone with a penchant for writing long and detailed articles. Anyone know a Veteran player like that?? Anyone?? @popps
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,770Moderator
    edited October 2020
    All possible templates?  Not possible, UO is a sandbox game, you can combine skills in any way your imagination can come up with.
    Most popular templates? Certainly, but a player does not need to have all the artifacts that some veterans deem necessary in order to play effectively, and telling them they do is not only discouraging, it's not accurate or true.
    It's also ever shifting, example the recent addition of the epaulettes from this event.
    Ask 10 sampires to list their skills and equipment and I guarantee you will get 10 different lists.
  • Victim_Of_SiegeVictim_Of_Siege Posts: 862
    edited October 2020
    Mariah said:
    All possible templates?  Not possible, UO is a sandbox game, you can combine skills in any way your imagination can come up with.
    Most popular templates? Certainly, but a player does not need to have all the artifacts that some veterans deem necessary in order to play effectively, and telling them they do is not only discouraging, it's not accurate or true.
    It's also ever shifting, example the recent addition of the epaulettes from this event.
    Ask 10 sampires to list their skills and equipment and I guarantee you will get 10 different lists.
    Agreed Mariah, you can play the game with many varied templates and in an Imbued suit while doing it. Yes, Artifacts make it easier and can help you with the higher end mobs, but nowhere near necessary.  you have to start out on low end mobs slowly building your suit to the top tiered items, but again, it isn't necessary. At least, that is how I see it . . .
    A Goblin, a Gargoyle, and a Drow walk into a bar . . .

    Never be afraid to challenge the status quo

  • psychopsycho Posts: 219
    Nice list Cookie made, however its not for new players.  The list is not at all a guide for a new player without a veteran by his side.  A few highlights of the list:

    • Reknowned Acid Elemental
    • Harrower
    • Treaures of Deceit Event
    • Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash
    • Narvey spider
    I wouldnt do any of those unless 100/GM skills, which also mean an armor that is either Imbued or better, and besides, its not a solo run for a new player even with GM skills and Imbued armor.

    New haven is great, for skills upto 60 or so, but then what?  In my opinion its the only way to get a buddy or a guild to cooperate with,  yes its a MMO, but both things can be hard to find these days.

    Ive seen solo players with gm skills and even imbued/good armor been sendt out on quest to kill the Ogre chef in dungeon wrong, let me just say it was not a nice task for a new/returning player.
    And thats the problem, once people leave New Haven they will embark new quests from the NPC cryer at the banks.  These can be interesting/challenging, but most of them are  NOT for new players

  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited October 2020

    I completely know and understand the points that my road-map was for 1 style of template, there are many styles of template, but a lot of the basics would be the same, just with a different places to visit for different slots.

    I also get that you can use many variations, and there are variations upon variations.

    To a large degree, this is where the complication comes in.

    None of this is relevant to the point I was making, I get all this, but  what is true is that;

    As a new player, with far less skills and abilities, the game does not offer a cohesive route whereby a character with a certain level of skills, can go to get themselves the level of armour or weapons they require in a structured fashion. I know this, because I experienced it.

    I think it should be possible to define some of the more popular templates and create guidance for them. If you ask any Vet - I want to make this, or this, or this, they would know in their heads how to progress with that, they would know the options - what I did for my Throwers there, I could equally do with a Mage, a Rogue. A new player just does not stand a chance, and the whole thing is completely overwhelming.

  • MariahMariah Posts: 1,770Moderator
    I am more than willing to include such information in the wiki if players would like to send it to me, however when I asked for macro examples I received only one email in response.
    My email address, should anyone want to send me information for the wiki, is mariah4broadsword@gmail.com
    The page already in the wiki is part of the 'beginning the adventure' section:

  • CookieCookie Posts: 910

    I understand @Mariah :)

    I do feel I should help, I have so much in my head, but I don't ever have time to get it out, or I get distracted, or I'm just too busy playing.

    I never go onto Test Centre - I don't even know how to use it, I don't pre-test new content - Again - I'm just too busy playing the game.

  • psychopsycho Posts: 219
    edited October 2020
    Theres a few items that are usefull for new players as they advance, I think there should be a quest for each of these items, they are not high-end, but still very usefull for i.e a mage charcter:


    • Protector of the battle mage
    • Shield of Invulnerability
    • Enchanted Kelp woven leggings
    • Totem of the Void
    • Runed Driftwood bow
    • Full spellbook
    • Full Necromancer book


    Ofcourse some of this items can be bought from vendor search on some shards (not all shards), but as a new/returning player you wont learn anything buying of the vendors.
    Upon log in players should also be given a choice are you
    A new player,  A returning player, or A veteran. 
    The choices they make should give them hint to what quests they might want to do, if they want items or to learn the basics of the game.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    edited October 2020
    psycho said:
    Nice list Cookie made, however its not for new players.  The list is not at all a guide for a new player without a veteran by his side.  A few highlights of the list:

    • Reknowned Acid Elemental
    • Harrower
    • Treaures of Deceit Event
    • Lord Oaks for replica Lieutenants Sash
    • Narvey spider
    I wouldnt do any of those unless 100/GM skills, which also mean an armor that is either Imbued or better, and besides, its not a solo run for a new player even with GM skills and Imbued armor.

    New haven is great, for skills upto 60 or so, but then what?  In my opinion its the only way to get a buddy or a guild to cooperate with,  yes its a MMO, but both things can be hard to find these days.

    Ive seen solo players with gm skills and even imbued/good armor been sendt out on quest to kill the Ogre chef in dungeon wrong, let me just say it was not a nice task for a new/returning player.
    And thats the problem, once people leave New Haven they will embark new quests from the NPC cryer at the banks.  These can be interesting/challenging, but most of them are  NOT for new players

    psycho said:
    Theres a few items that are usefull for new players as they advance, I think there should be a quest for each of these items, they are not high-end, but still very usefull for i.e a mage charcter:


    • Protector of the battle mage
    • Shield of Invulnerability
    • Enchanted Kelp woven leggings
    • Totem of the Void
    • Runed Driftwood bow
    • Full spellbook
    • Full Necromancer book


    Ofcourse some of this items can be bought from vendor search on some shards (not all shards), but as a new/returning player you wont learn anything buying of the vendors.
    Upon log in players should also be given a choice are you
    A new player,  A returning player, or A veteran. 
    The choices they make should give them hint to what quests they might want to do, if they want items or to learn the basics of the game.


    Hi @psycho :)

    I completely agree - it is not for new players, but that is the list that is required to create basic Throwers - with some of the basic must have items that players want for their characters.

    That is exactly my point, the Hunting of Items and Gear - does not correlate with the level of Skills of a Character. There is a complete void/disconnect in the game, in terms of what they would be after, and when they can actually try to attain it.

    I agree with you in terms of your basic list, there are some items that should be scaled better within the game. The place they are obtained from, should be lower level.

    I think a new solo player should be able to go so far, and have a more structured introduction.

    Then of course, it's about group and teamplay to progress further.



    Edit - PS - It was a list for 3 new players acting as a team.  2 Gargoyle Thrower damage dealers, and a Gargoyle Mystic Parry Mage acting as support healer. The emphasis has been on teamwork from the start. And yes, even then, we needed help from a Veteran guild. When I first started the game all those years ago, I teamed up with 2 other guys, and we formed a solid friendship and that is how we progressed, I also met @petra-fyde in those days. :)

  • TownieTownie Posts: 20
    What part of Cookie's list is for a new player?

    People giving away full suits. Being carried on a harrower. Free powerscrolls.

    Sounds like you are just carrying them completely bypassing any new player experience that they may have encountered. Completely skipped the progression of being new racing into high end content.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 910
    Townie said:
    What part of Cookie's list is for a new player?

    People giving away full suits. Being carried on a harrower. Free powerscrolls.

    Sounds like you are just carrying them completely bypassing any new player experience that they may have encountered. Completely skipped the progression of being new racing into high end content.


    I get your scepticism, but the 3 of us, have played all of that together from brand new EJ accounts. What I have not mentioned in there is the timescale, and how long and detailed each part has been. I've bullet pointed it, and made it look like we achieved each of those points in a day, when each point probably took a month.

    A lot of players/crafters give away basic imbued/LRC suits to help new players - our guild do this for many players, and many new people we recruit. Petra's guild do similar.

    Veteran players are all sat there with many Legendary items, it is nothing for them to throw together a suit.

    We have done Champion Spawns, but again, our guild as a Champ Spawn guild, farm so many, have so many in stock, and give away Plats worth of these to new/returning players.

    We take Harry teams of 20 players a time. Often say 5-10 PvPers for protection, and 10-15 PvMers, the PvMers are often by default new players who are there for the scrolls, they are not being carried if they are helping to kill the Harry. But again, yes we carry many new players, through all aspects of the game, it's what large Champ Spawn guilds do, those guilds everyone criticizes all the time, because they perceive they are dominating the market, and selling everything for huge profits, when we are giving most of it away.

  • MerusMerus Posts: 382
    Personally I think there is plenty for a true new-player experience in New Haven except for one glaring exception... “basic equipment” that would allow you to reasonably move on to other content once your skill training and familiarity with the game is complete.

    For most vets who were around back in 97-99... think about the difference between the top tier armor and the basic looted armor off something like an orc or ettin.  There was some differences, but the gap was not the Grand Canyon it is today.  I feel like there needs to be some quests in between the 50 skill and 90 skill levels that provide true usable pieces based on the basic templates.

    For example:

    Replace the starting spell book for a mage with an empty base scrappers.

    NPC mage in Haven sells all scrolls through 4th circle.

    NPC mage offers 3 additional quests: Journeyman, Adept and Expert Mage.  Journeyman gets you all 5th and 6th circle spells at 55 magery... adept gets you all 7th circle at 70 and expert gets you all 8th level spells at 80. (Quests can be completed once per character to avoid abuse).

    NPC mage guild master offers additional quests... Apprentice, Advisor and Battle Mage... Apprentice provides a leather 100% lrc suit with 10 lmc and 50 in all resists at 55 magery... Advisor grants 100 lrc with 20 lmc, 60 resists and 30 SDI at 70 skill... Battle Mage would grant a 100 lrc with 30 lmc, 70 in all resists 30 SDI and 1/5 casting at 80 skill. (Same quest restrictions for once per character).

    By 80 magery a new player would have a full lrc suit with 40 lmc, 70 in all resists, 2/6 casting and 55 SDI.... still nothing like a 150 SDI legendary/arti based suit, but the gap is smaller and the new player has acquired a decent suit through game play.


  • CookieCookie Posts: 910

    @townie - I'd also like to add, I was agreeing with the original poster - this game is very hard for a new player. I've stated there is no structure, the content does not flow, skillgains do not link up with equipment gains.

    I've stated there is no obvious progression path, and it's all very confusing for a new player.

    What I've done - is give 1 real gameplay example, as to how it could be done, I know it can be done, because this is exactly what I've done, I've been very honest about each step, the good bits, the hard bits, the bits where I've had help, how I got around certain bits.

    This is not the only be all and end all example, it is not prescriptive, the point of it was, to give a flavour, and indication of how it could be approached - I was almost showing how hard it was, but also trying to help a player find a way, I hope within there, new or returning players can see and identify steps they can relate to, and could use to their advantage. This method of playing it, did not require any gold, or real life cash to be invested. It did require team-work, it did require joining a Feluccan PvP guild.


    As for skipping content, and racing to high end content... :)

    There is far more to go after this!

    I did not touch on Virtues, Buffs/DeBuffs, , Consumables, Masteries, Crafting, putting together High-End Armour, and ultimately PvP in Felucca. There is at least a year to go, before they could be considered ready for that. This was about putting together the first basic Dexxer character, to give them an introduction and flavour to the game. After that, when you have more knowledge of what is what, you can start branching out to what may be more your playstyle, knowing you have an all-round basic farming Dexxer in your inventory to go and do all the basic stuff.

  • In the past, there have been "new" guilds that helped  players get used to playing.  The GM or active players in the guild would or could create quests for the new player.  Send them on leather gathering missions, or mining missions in order to get gear made for them.  This was a long time ago however.  Times have changed and people have changed.  Everyone  wants to give stuff away but no one wants to spend "time".  I remember the magical adventures of first playing and what  I remember is the interactions with players, not so much the leveling process.  The key to this game has always been about the people you play with, not so much about the content.  The content is fun if you are working with  other people.  If you log into less populated shards there is no one in new haven.  You might see one or two people all day there.  No one to talk to new players.  Perhaps a new spawning point that leads to new haven might be in order.  Let people start at Luna when they first log in.  A quest to show the moongate to New Haven.  At least they will log in to see other players.  Have a quest hub guy in Luna somewhere near the moongate that will send new players to quest givers.
  • PawainPawain Posts: 4,904
    Townie said:
    What part of Cookie's list is for a new player?

    People giving away full suits. Being carried on a harrower. Free powerscrolls.

    Sounds like you are just carrying them completely bypassing any new player experience that they may have encountered. Completely skipped the progression of being new racing into high end content.
    Many multiplayer  games do this. In some games it is called rushing. Players with 15 minute attention spans do not want to spend weeks/ months /years advancing their character. 
  • Its the difference between  role play and min max.  Wish they could cater to both.

  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 1,577
    I've said before the New Haven quest should move from town center to the Mines and surrounding area first set of quest take you to 50 next set to GM. with level appropriate monsters dropping level appropriate gear .. i would even go so far as to say limited PVP with strict limits on who can attack who (based on skill points or such) in an arena type setting allowing only gear found in and around haven...
  • MissEMissE Posts: 774
    edited October 2020
    pity the wiki doesn't actually act like a wiki where users can edit.  Even the Menu is pretty useless when you want to find something.  The only way to find stuff in uowiki is to google what you want and go from there.

    Cheers MissE

    For more info about Angelwood Warehouse Events go to the A.W.E Forum
  • Arnold7Arnold7 Posts: 420
    Of_Beasts said:
    In the past, there have been "new" guilds that helped  players get used to playing.  The GM or active players in the guild would or could create quests for the new player.  Send them on leather gathering missions, or mining missions in order to get gear made for them.  This was a long time ago however.  Times have changed and people have changed. 
    Have been playing this game for about 2 years but reading about it off and on for at least 20.  What Of Beasts says above pretty much sums it up.  Original concept was that new players would join guilds and other groups.  Even read that in the early days there were some player run towns.  New players would get the information they needed from other players, and established player groups actively recruited new players.  Maybe this concept still has some merit on Atlantic but on most other shards I believe it is long gone.

    When I started two years ago there was nothing.  I advanced by doing a lot of internet research.  There were a few players passing through New Haven now and then that gave me and other players advice, but I don't see them anymore.  Don't see many new players either when I pass through New Haven to do the same thing.  Really think the times and the players have changed.
     
    Do not really think that every profession needs a detailed player guide.  For example, when a player buys training, which by the way is not that easy for a new player since the new player does not have the least idea of how to pay for the training until after doing some internet research,  it would be helpful to for new players to have the option to get a little information on how to play the character.  For example, the swords trainer could say a little about the qualities a player should look for on a weapon, and maybe provide a little information on how to use it.

    Have been playing standalone games since the 1970's and have to admit this is the least helpful to the new player game I have ever played.  Don't think that was intentional but that is the way it is.                                                                                          
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