▒ - NEW IDOC'S CHANGE - ▒

praha

yes about Co-owner I was think about same for weeks.

what if they do this : (if there is a co-owner like on most houses)

-a co-owner must be able to empty the wholly house when Idoc starts.
- if not , then oke.. drop on floor.

-means ," house rights go to co-owner "

if house start idoc. co-owner is able to release ect
take all the stuff whatever it is out off house.


is Idd much beter. stop Idoc runner and scripter and ect.

I vote for this. 100%
 
baad english but swat. you will understand what I mean.

JackFlashUk

Can you please remove the 5/10/15 hr timers and revert to 7 hrs as-well 

Garth_Grey

Regarding Co owners, uhh no to those ideas. You want to claim you're helping your friends out, fine, let co owners receive an email saying the account is in jeopardy and if they want to spend their real life money to save a house, I'm good with that. But please spare us your "we help people all of the time " claims. It all comes down to greed, always has.

Ivenor

Garth_Grey said:

(...) You want to claim you're helping your friends out, fine, let co owners receive an email saying the account is in jeopardy and if they want to spend their real life money to save a house, I'm good with that. (...)

I second this part of GG post.

Lord_Obsidian_Knight

So with this change you would be pretty much eliminating idocing??  This is a type of gameplay and has been around forever.  For someone that plays to search and participate in decaying houses (idocs) you will be ruining the game for them.  I am in agreeance that changes to the system is needed but this is terrible.  I have played ultima since 1997 and seen a lot of changes over the years and this is about one of the worst.  If you take away what people log in and play for you will have players lose interest and eventually quit.  The simple fix take it back to the old set fall time of 7 or 8 hours. Or do a 3 or 6 or 4 and 8 hours something shorter then the 5,10 and 15 we have now.  The system now only benefits the scripters.  

Merus

Here is how I would tweak what has been suggested:

-Keep the current suggestion that the public sign will not indicate any decay status. 

-Remove the process that clears that access/friends/co-owners from the house when the decay process starts.  I am ok with the house still becoming private.

-Increase the alert from owners only to any character on the friends/co-owners list.

-Include in the alert, the exact date and time decay can be expected.

monkgamer

These are just ideas to make things fair, don't harrass me if you don't like them:

when an idoc falls, no one can loot it, instead, there is a lottery system that you buy tickets. the lottery chooses randomly from the tickets, and who ever wins gets to take items. multiple winners can be chosen.

or

when the idoc does fall, it goes into a bubble that only one person at a time can go in. The order of the line is randomly given out to each character in proximity, if they leave the proximity they lose their place in line. that way. 


This can also be done where a random people on the shard is given a que which they can recall in and loot, that way its random and everyone eventaully has a shot.

or



all idocs items go into a ticket. those tickets are then randomly sent to random accounts on the shard. just double click the ticket to receive the item. If the ticket isn't used in 72 hours the item is sent to the next random account. 

This way, all players get a chance not just scriptors or campers.

or

each shard has an idoc representative. that representative chooses a day to give out all the loot that has fallen that week, and first come first serve. that person hands out a piece, in order to each person in  line.

Garth_Grey

Merus said:

Here is how I would tweak what has been suggested:

-Keep the current suggestion that the public sign will not indicate any decay status. 

-Remove the process that clears that access/friends/co-owners from the house when the decay process starts.  I am ok with the house still becoming private.

-Increase the alert from owners only to any character on the friends/co-owners list.

-Include in the alert, the exact date and time decay can be expected.

Well heck, why don't you just ask the Devs to move all items in the house into the bank boxes of friends/co-owners ? They can be tagged and labeled so as to not cause confusion and delay as the friends/co-owners are rifling through their spoils. /smh

Merus

Garth_Grey said:

Merus said:

Here is how I would tweak what has been suggested:

-Keep the current suggestion that the public sign will not indicate any decay status. 

-Remove the process that clears that access/friends/co-owners from the house when the decay process starts.  I am ok with the house still becoming private.

-Increase the alert from owners only to any character on the friends/co-owners list.

-Include in the alert, the exact date and time decay can be expected.

Well heck, why don't you just ask the Devs to move all items in the house into the bank boxes of friends/co-owners ? They can be tagged and labeled so as to not cause confusion and delay as the friends/co-owners are rifling through their spoils. /smh

You sound a bit greedy over a strangers pixels.  I have no problem with the actual acquaintances of the house owner getting a chance to let the house owner know or getting first crack at the contents.  

Zoo

I agree, this is nuts. Is the best solution we could come up with really to prevent that type of game play all together?

I'm not the young guy I was when I started playing this game. Responsibilities to work and family exist today that didn't exist when I started playing, and time is limited. I'm just as addicted today as ever though, and the one saving grace preventing me from closing my accounts have quite frankly been IDOCs. I can't predict when a large fight will break out, or when enough people will be on to do a shrine battle (tried that one solo, died a ton) but I can predict when a house is going to fall. I can predict this time way in advance. And if I'm not around for the sign change window, there is a great community of IDOCers around me who will know the time. It's this advanced knowledge of when a house is going to fall that allows me to schedule some fun UO time. Granted the 5,10,15 timer really messed this up for me, it was at least an amicable attempt in the right direction. Of course the outcome of this was that the amount of scripting anecdotally increased drastically. If the current suggested changes are implemented, I can all but guarantee an even larger increase in scripting.

The way I see it, the problems with IDOCs can be broken down in two camps:
1. Loot Scripting
2. House Placement Scripting

I fail to see how this solution addresses either of those concerns.

I admittedly don't have any great ideas to prevent loot scripting outside of preventing new accounts into an IDOC zone or limiting pack animals. I'm actually not sure if this is already the case or not.

However, I am fully aware of the mechanics being exploited that allows people to be the first to place, and not burn out their tools, without being caught. Without saying too much here, why don't we look into changing the underlying system that allows that to happen instead of this scorched earth policy? If for some reason the devs aren't familiar with the exploit, feel free to shoot me a pm.

Stinky_Pete

I just gotta say:

If AR and Rafman are not happy with the changes, the devs are on the right track.

I also have to say: 

This is a Trammel issue, please leave Fel and Siege alone!

KHAN

While I applaud the devs for trying to (finally) do something about cheaters/scripters at IDOC's, it's kind of sad that they couldn't just "go after" them, instead of penalizing the honest IDOCers as well. It's KIND OF like saying "well, we are now going after the EM event cheaters, so, there will be no more drops". Instead of, hmm, I don't know, maybe just GOING AFTER THE CHEATERS directly. I mean, come on, pretty much EVERYBODY knows who they are.

monkgamer

I do not see how making it harder to find is getting rid of the gameplay. You just have to look for houses that are already fallen at this point, which yes makes it more difficult, but not done altogether.

AmberWitch

Merus said:

Here is how I would tweak what has been suggested:

-Keep the current suggestion that the public sign will not indicate any decay status. 

-Remove the process that clears that access/friends/co-owners from the house when the decay process starts.  I am ok with the house still becoming private.

-Increase the alert from owners only to any character on the friends/co-owners list.

-Include in the alert, the exact date and time decay can be expected.

This.

If there's a way to change the house sign that would be visible only to the co-owners and friends when a house starts to decay that would be helpful.

I prefer to think about this issue from the perspective of someone who's house is in decay. If it were my house what would my druthers be? What would your wishes be about your own stuff?

Would you want a bunch of greedy off-sharders who delight and get off in tormenting the locals with their rude comments grabbing your stuff to sell off on Atlantic or would you want your friends and co-owners to get what you've spent your game life collecting and building?

I think the average everyday player would go with the second option. They are the ones who really count here in my book.

The average everyday player.

Uriah_Heep

No info of any kind on the sign.

Why all the crap about notifying co-owners?  My co owners dont have my account info, so notifying them ain't gonna get you any money and game time to refresh the house.  It just gives the co owners time to loot the house before it falls...not good

Just drop it all on the ground when house decays, and make the decay time on the loose house items lengthen to 24 hours before it decays.

Kill EJ with the same publish this goes live in to make the script scouters use paid accounts.

This would be great, would make me and a few others want to run the worlds again exploring lol

Grace

If a Super Boss, maybe a Demonic Vulture, spawned when the house dropped that would be interesting. 

The Boss must be defeated before the house contents are released or the empty spot available to place. Have it be such a boss that would terrify even regular EM Event goers. 

Once killed, if you have looting rights (via damage or healing others) you can pick up the house contents, it would be locked down for others.

BOTS would not survive it and any one who ran into this Boss would have no choice but to holler 
for help in chat.

Likely this has some holes in it, but was just an idea that popped in my head and sounded fun.

Pawain

Garth_Grey said:

Why does it matter AR ? You are never the owner of any of these IDOCs you attend so you won't be notified. Why do you care how they word the change, what matters is, the house sign will no longer let scripters know anything. It's a great change, I look forward to how this all plays out.

It will play out this way:  The scriptors or people who make money by sitting next to their multiple running accounts will be the ones that find 99% of the IDOCS if they fall randomly.  They will notate the ones that seem to have items and just concentrate on those.

1% and the ones that are empty will go to players who just happen to walk by.

Notice how the 2 posters that play the IDOC game here are not unhappy with the change as far as it dropping goes.

They (scripters, not the 2 mentioned above) already walk around daily.  They may need more EJ accounts to walk around more often.

Leonidas

@Mesanna ; @Kyronix ; @Bleak and @Mariah

Last year newsletter , right before the team was getting ready for the holidays, You all said that the plans for the roadmap of 2020 was to "discuss" ideas with the players and Together come up with some solutions for the well known problem.
Now, today I open my email and check the newsletter and I really HOPE that those changes will be DISCUSSED with us players before goes live and it is not already set on stone!
I hope we can hear directly from you guys because Idocs were Not even once mentioned by ANY devs since Thanksgiving on all the already closed topics on this same forum, so again , please do not make any decision before discuss with us the pros and cons.
By removing the house sign status you will help the scripters once again and leaving us regular player speechless again, I hope you all realize that the Pro scripters can scan for grubbers, items, deeds and so many things, 24/7 non stop and loot all. You want to really address the matter, Please listen to what was said before, and make everything inside the house go into the house owners account bank, make a special crate and move that crate into their bank and charge a fee to retrieve the contents when they come back. this was said and suggested by many people and is the best thing to do, you will be saving their contents by when they come back, and if the house going idoc was due for some irl problem or anything, at least they will be happy to knnow that they didnt loose everything other than their house, they will have their soulstones saved, rewards, shard shields, all safe at the bank.

the removing sign idea will only make even worst and only the elite scripters will get all.

But if you decide to not listen to the player ideas and go for the change anyway, at least remove the 5,10,15 hour thing and make all houses for that day to drop at same time, so at least people could walk around all land and search for something, for that period of time, other than not known at all about anything!! 
  

Zoo

Uriah_Heep said:

Why all the crap about notifying co-owners?  My co owners dont have my account info, so notifying them ain't gonna get you any money and game time to refresh the house.  It just gives the co owners time to loot the house before it falls...not good

Kill EJ with the same publish this goes live in to make the script scouters use paid accounts.

I agree with you completely on point 1.

Unfortunately there are tools that exist that would allow you to scout on your main account and are virtually undetectable. Killing EJ might help stop the amateur, but wont prevent people who know what they are doing.

Uriah_Heep

I'm sure this was discussed with the players who matter.  No need muddying up the waters with common folks input.

Zoo

monkgamer said:

I do not see how making it harder to find is getting rid of the gameplay. You just have to look for houses that are already fallen at this point, which yes makes it more difficult, but not done altogether.

It's not making them harder to find, it's making them impossible to find. IDOC quite literally stands for in danger of collapsing, you will not be able to find any houses that were in danger if this moves forward.
Imagine if you loved fighting dark fathers in doom, but due to some bad actors, the developers decided to randomly kill the dark fathers for you, and you had to run around the game looking for their corpses to loot. Would you not consider this changing your gameplay? Houses just blowing up randomly as if their gas line leaked is the equivalent.
I'm not suggesting that we couldn't adjust to the new system, just that it is a completely new system of play. Many of us play idoc characters and have for a decade or more. It's our style of game play, and is just as relevant as anyone else's.

Pawain

Zoo said:

 Many of us play idoc characters and have for a decade or more. It's our style of game play, and is just as relevant as anyone else's. 

I agree.  If you play legit as an IDOCer you will miss a lot more than those who use other methods.

TimSt

It will only slow the scripters down a little.  It took me less than 20 minutes to figure out the steps for a work around for the not showing of the idoc status on the house sign change.

Ivenor

TimSt said:

It will only slow the scripters down a little.  It took me less than 20 minutes to figure out the steps for a work around for the not showing of the idoc status on the house sign change.

Please enlight all the Class then...

Pawain

My guess:

You can't walk onto public house steps if the house is IDOC?  

Can they spot Private houses in IDOC?

TimSt

Ivenor said:

TimSt said:

It will only slow the scripters down a little.  It took me less than 20 minutes to figure out the steps for a work around for the not showing of the idoc status on the house sign change.

Please enlight all the Class then...

Here is how a scripter can do it:
1. Have Y number of characters randomly look for house signs and mark a rune stone for each house sign found.
2. Split rune stones into X number of groups
3. Assign each group to a different char
4. Have each char recall to each rune stone in their group.
5. Check if house sign exists. 
6. If it exists recall to next rune stone.
7. If house sign does not exist have vacuumers recall to this spot and start vacuuming.
8. repeat steps 4->7 within a few minutes

They do not need to read the house sign.  They just need to know if it exists or not. One character can check 124 houses in 8 to 10 minutes depending on their mana regen.

@Mahiah, Feel free to delete this comment if it violates the TOS.

popps

JackFlashUk said:

Now time to restrict EJ accts so they cannot be script trawlers 

Absolutely !!

@Kyronix , @Bleak , @Mesanna PLEASE do not permit scripters to use free EJ Accounts to roam the Lands of Sosaria to loot clean any and all Houses that fall !!

Also, PLEASE, make it so that the items dropping on ground from Houses falling, will now have a LONGER decay time. A SIGNIFICANTLY longer decay time.

Otherwise, all these items would likely get lost.

Wouldn't it have been better to have made them spawn in Treasure Chests, SOS Chests and at the Cavern of the Discarded ?

The way it could have been handled, is that any and all items dropping from Homes could go into a huge UO Warehouse and then, randomly, they get taken from the Warehouse and put into Treasure Chests, SOS Chests and on corpses of killed spawn at the Cavern of the Discarded.....

So, players could get, occasionally, the nice surprise of getting something cool from a fallen House into a digged or fished up Chest or in the corpse of a creature killed at the Cavern of the Discarded...

As an alternative, as I said, at least make items from the fallen House be persistent for a lot more time before they decay.

Olahorand

Such ideas make me think, that the developers do no longer care about the people who still play this game and about the history collected by them in form of items, stored in their houses.

Often enough are people notified, that there houses are in decay by some ingame friends, come back and pay for longer. Without such notification there is no chance they could save their stuff and continue playing and paying.

Since this not always works, another example: I was coowner or friend of a house, which went into decay. In that house I had locked down one of my house teleporters. Since the friends list got cleared, I could no longer access and recover my teleporter. Contacting the owner by my known channels failed unfortunately. But I could try to collect it from the IDOC (failed unfortunately due to competition). Well it was only a teleporter. Now imagine some great items from the past, true rares, shard history like my collections of guild stones and whispering roses. House falls without anyone noticing it within the decay period for items, which is far too short for any sane player, to find it randomly. So the history would be lost. In this case I prefer to see these things go into the hands of the IDOC pros (as long as they pay for their accounts) rather than decaying forever.

Or do it as other games - all house content goes into the bank box of the owner, maybe in a mirror of a moving crate. Or store the entire house with content in a void space with the ability for the owner to access/restore it once he returns after paying a service fee. (Sure no ideas, Idocers would like.)

*Salute*
Olahorand

Lady_Storm

I have to agree with AR ….  there must be a simpler way to deal with IDOC's.  That is fair and not cause the game a massive die off of players in the near future.  

I just got my ear bit off by my son.... 

He is so angry he is yelling about the game that he rarely touches anymore...  His beef is this will in fact cause a massive exodus of players the minute a few of the big castle museums fall and no one is there to save the rare and server birth items that will decay in minutes after they fall....

I agree that this is going far to the right of the real challenge of dealing with the scripters and looters who brazenly get into these decaying homes and set up their stripping of the house in a matter of seconds of a fall...
 At first the idea sounds great... no one will know your house is in danger and will give you time to fix the issue... But as I have said when this idea was offered it comes with heavy baggage..  

Many of us older players have health issues that can side line them and can cause the game to not be looked after till its nearly too late or worse all is gone... and this has happened without the sign change.  Or you don't use the CC or Debit card listed on the account that often and its out of date.... many have lost the game homes to this happening.   Its why the 90 day bit was added along with service players who don't get to a web site too often...


I don't like the idea we could be looking at the end of UO because some player with greedy fingers is willing to do all they can to beat the system. 
Perhaps ..
id like to see other ideas before they pick this one... You cant stop the scripters.. if it was so easy the dev would have done it to get us off their backs ages ago... So we the players must help in giving them a better way.  If you know how they do it.. get off your duff and tell the dev!

I don't like the idea you have to step on the house to get the decay of it... how can I get the state of decay if the account is not on? (by any means it went off in the first place)

My son is so mad that he told me he will not pay for my accounts (with my money btw) if this kills off his hard earned work if he misses the turn on of an account that slipped through his list and was missed till he runs the door to door/account by account log in and house check...  
so Bonnie listen to me on this one  Don't put my account in danger...

Ivenor

A general question: why so much people seems to use CC in monthly auto renewal for their subs and don't buy instead 6 anticipated months two time a year on Origin site???