New Tmap proposals

jelinidas

Bilbo said:

And you need to read that it was stated that if you could solo a 7 then you will be able to solo the 5

Yes, yes I can. With silly puzzles...

jelinidas

Ok, I don't like puzzles and do not think they belong in treasure hunting. They have a lot of time invested in them.They are not going to abandon them and the artwork is pretty darn good. 

Perhaps we should brain storm a place for them. Turn hidden chests back on in Khaldun and put relics back. They were pretty rare, give folks a chance to complete their set.

Put them in gypsy camps. Seem like a place for them.

There are already a lot of puzzles in the game already. Why add them to a place where many do not want them?

Tanager

Oh.. sorry.. you said you dug up a level 3 chest, and you seemed disappointed in not finding things that are not to be found in that level.

I apologize for misunderstanding.

JollyJade

Ok, I jumped in the other end and tried a warrior's trove in tram.

Spawned 4 guardians again and the fight was more to my likings. Two blood elementals faced my ilittle hunter girl so she coughed and flattened them to ground. Next up was a greater dragon, which to her disliking ate half a dozen RCs and kept dispelling them. At one point she got sassy and started throwing rocks at the dragon, but what can u do. After he joined the blood elementals a sweet looking ancient drake kept cycling my loot, but i save you the prosa and skip to where he joins the other guardians.

Old silly me tries skeleton key again and *poof*, *poof* goes the loot. Turns out was only gems though. "it appears to be locked". So I open the skill tracker and click on lock picking - "this skill cannot be used directly" *doh*. But fortunately I remember the people talking about those puzzles and remove trap. I use my 0.0% remove trap and a slider puzzle comes up. Fast forward some explosions, vas mani hurs and heavy thinking it starts looking proper.

Chest had like 20 items of gear, one cool item, some worth bringing home and some straight junk, nothing to complain there tbh. But again, no deco, no refinements, no orb, no blue, no pink, etc. which is very disappointing for the highest level maps.

On the positive end I got the honor to talk to Kyronix personally for the first time. Sweet. 

I also did another trove fel map this time with my luck gear (2550) + luck statue. Guardians where only 2 titans and 2 even weaker "sorry i dont remember exactly". 16 items of magic gear, but lots antique, brittle, etc.. idk, nothing I considered good. That was personally really a disappointing one considering the luck and fel. Like I ask myself: "what else could I do?". And the answer is doing low level maps with a horrible fighting / travel ratio:

Did a stash which spawned mongbats that where killed on auto defend before I could stop giggling. Only gold and gems. To be fair: yes it has been a long while since I did a level one map. Then a supply and finally at least one SoA, but despite that only gold and gems again. But honestly, at that level of difficulty I can downgrade my hunter to also fit a full lumberjack to collect wood while t-hunting lol.

I always found that t-chest loot was one of the more positive examples of loot in UO, with a very good mix of different items you could expect, and you never got completely disappointed and be it only cleanup value you brought from a chest. Sure we all have vines. Sure we all just trade refinements for cleanup points. But its honest progress at multiple fronts with every chest. And its decently increasing quality with difficulty at the moment.

To me its like it makes sense: The high level maps yield the plentiest loot and the hardest challenge. Low level maps had their place, like farming doom for cleanup points or once in a blue moon taking a noob around. But they were not where the action was at. The hot stuff was always doing 6s and 7s with that one out of 50 chance to find some 100m item or the like while all the rest provided for a feelgood experience that also added up to some mils over time.

Where does it make sense that I'm not supposed to find the widest range and plentiest of stuff in the highest level maps, but only when I fight mongbats on low level maps? 

I don't know how to get that straight from where we are. I might be a lost cause on that front, sorry.

Tanager

Maybe they can divide out the loot like in the revamp for levels 1-3. But let the ''group'' levels have the full range (plus PS) like they do currently. People could solo them or do them as group, but not be able to target items like the revamp allows.

Pawain

Kyronix said:

KHAN said:

@ Kyronix, what will happen to the skull rugs that give a (current) level 1-4 map per week? My thought is, they will give the "new" level 1-3 maps when this goes "live". In whatever form, with whatever changes are made.

The maps that are retrieved from the rug will follow the conversion as described in the notes.

Just want to say the loot roll is great. Keep it!  I think some were used to a lot of items in the chests. You could also put a matching amount of items from the old roll of the Chest. 18 items would be a lot again.  They like to use those extras for clean up points or imbuing.

Margrette

JollyJade said:

Ok, I jumped in the other end and tried a warrior's trove in tram.

Spawned 4 guardians again and the fight was more to my likings. Two blood elementals faced my ilittle hunter girl so she coughed and flattened them to ground. Next up was a greater dragon, which to her disliking ate half a dozen RCs and kept dispelling them. At one point she got sassy and started throwing rocks at the dragon, but what can u do. After he joined the blood elementals a sweet looking ancient drake kept cycling my loot, but i save you the prosa and skip to where he joins the other guardians.

Old silly me tries skeleton key again and *poof*, *poof* goes the loot. Turns out was only gems though. "it appears to be locked". So I open the skill tracker and click on lock picking - "this skill cannot be used directly" *doh*. But fortunately I remember the people talking about those puzzles and remove trap. I use my 0.0% remove trap and a slider puzzle comes up. Fast forward some explosions, vas mani hurs and heavy thinking it starts looking proper.

Chest had like 20 items of gear, one cool item, some worth bringing home and some straight junk, nothing to complain there tbh. But again, no deco, no refinements, no orb, no blue, no pink, etc. which is very disappointing for the highest level maps.

On the positive end I got the honor to talk to Kyronix personally for the first time. Sweet. 

I also did another trove fel map this time with my luck gear (2550) + luck statue. Guardians where only 2 titans and 2 even weaker "sorry i dont remember exactly". 16 items of magic gear, but lots antique, brittle, etc.. idk, nothing I considered good. That was personally really a disappointing one considering the luck and fel. Like I ask myself: "what else could I do?". And the answer is doing low level maps with a horrible fighting / travel ratio:

Did a stash which spawned mongbats that where killed on auto defend before I could stop giggling. Only gold and gems. To be fair: yes it has been a long while since I did a level one map. Then a supply and finally at least one SoA, but despite that only gold and gems again. But honestly, at that level of difficulty I can downgrade my hunter to also fit a full lumberjack to collect wood while t-hunting lol.

I always found that t-chest loot was one of the more positive examples of loot in UO, with a very good mix of different items you could expect, and you never got completely disappointed and be it only cleanup value you brought from a chest. Sure we all have vines. Sure we all just trade refinements for cleanup points. But its honest progress at multiple fronts with every chest. And its decently increasing quality with difficulty at the moment.

To me its like it makes sense: The high level maps yield the plentiest loot and the hardest challenge. Low level maps had their place, like farming doom for cleanup points or once in a blue moon taking a noob around. But they were not where the action was at. The hot stuff was always doing 6s and 7s with that one out of 50 chance to find some 100m item or the like while all the rest provided for a feelgood experience that also added up to some mils over time.

Where does it make sense that I'm not supposed to find the widest range and plentiest of stuff in the highest level maps, but only when I fight mongbats on low level maps? 

I don't know how to get that straight from where we are. I might be a lost cause on that front, sorry.

Do you remember whether the chests were rusty, metal (standard), or gold?  Sometimes it's hard to tell when they come up under a tree and if the mobs fall on it  I understand that in the enhanced client, you can now tell which type of chest it is on the handle, but in the classic client that is no longer possible as they all say "chest" no matter the condition of the chest.   

Chest quality is based on your cartography skill and RNG, so that is where the legendary cartography glasses ought to be useful.  (I'm still waiting to test this after I get a pair of +5 glasses.  They come from Supply-level maps, any theme.


Chest quality seems to affect the type of ingots/wood/leather you get, number of refinement components (6 seems to be the max), and I believe also the quality of the randomly generated items.  Luck doesn't seem to affect the ingots/wood/leather, essences, or ML ingredients, and it doesn't seem to affect whether you get stuff like t-maps, SoTs, SoAs, recipe scrolls, utility items, artifacts, or deco items.  Luck does seem to affect the quality of randomly generated items. 

When you have a lockpicking failure and gas, I've noticed that a gem pile often disappears (you normally get nine, with quantity depending on chest level).  Not sure what else disappears for LP faiures.

As far as what is in each chest, take a look at the first tab in this spreadsheet of mine: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17SHMAEYnwRJ1o6e_16ov9JKue0DnHi1FzHnxOt-bI8g/edit?usp=sharing ;  It will tell you what can potentially be in each chest based on its theme and the level of the map.   

Tanager

in EC, the handle just says ''chest'', regardless of type. However, I can click on it to get the chest in my target window, and then I can see what it actually looks like from that window.

Margrette

Tanager said:

in EC, the handle just says ''chest'', regardless of type. However, I can click on it to get the chest in my target window, and then I can see what it actually looks like from that window.

Ack, okay.  Arroth did tell me that  bout seeing it in the target window but I forgot.  Would be nice if there was still a way to tell chest quality from the handle in the CC. 

Bilbo

jelinidas said:

Bilbo said:

And you need to read that it was stated that if you could solo a 7 then you will be able to solo the 5

Yes, yes I can. With silly puzzles...

You are %200 correct and that is the only problem IMHO of this new system are the puzzles.

Tim

If the powers that be decide to drop the puzzles (please) might I suggest that the traps stay armed until disarmed by skill or magic. You could also make it disarm trap before unlocking and a fail at unlock has a chance of rearming the trap. 

I might as well make my request to be able to open the chest before killing the guardians again. It would really give me something to do with my stealth thief.

But I do want to say even if I don't get my way it looks like a really good job on the update.

Tim

Opps forgot something could you give some thought to making the maps from the Doom Guardians for all land like Miasma's. I'm really getting tired of doing all my low levels in Malas.

Tarragon_Slayer

I'm trying very much coming to terms with the future changes. By the way, I'm one of those silly people who never asked for a loot improvement (didn't even know I could).

When digging up my first stash chest a few weeks ago, I already concluded that the gold and gems alone are an improvement to the present treasure maps. Now that I understand what to expect from stash to cache chests, I can find the items inside them perfectly acceptable as well. I'm looking forward to soloing these.

One thing however, I'm hoping for. If I do accept - with weeping and gnashing of teeth - the future puzzles on the higher level maps, would there be a chance that no matter how often I fail at the puzzle, there'd still be something inside the chest once I've broken its code and it finally opens? I'd be willing to accept the change as long as I know I'm not doing it for nothing.

JollyJade

Tarragon_Slayer said:

I'm trying very much coming to terms with the future changes. By the way, I'm one of those silly people who never asked for a loot improvement (didn't even know I could).

When digging up my first stash chest a few weeks ago, I already concluded that the gold and gems alone are an improvement to the present treasure maps. Now that I understand what to expect from stash to cache chests, I can find the items inside them perfectly acceptable as well. I'm looking forward to soloing these.

One thing however, I'm hoping for. If I do accept - with weeping and gnashing of teeth - the future puzzles on the higher level maps, would there be a chance that no matter how often I fail at the puzzle, there'd still be something inside the chest once I've broken its code and it finally opens? I'd be willing to accept the change as long as I know I'm not doing it for nothing.

From my testing you will often walk away from chests with nothing but gold and gems, because the chest either has no magic items at all (lower levels I did), or nothing you would be willing to keep (trove with high luck ang gm carto). Its as close to for nothing as it gets when you open a chest and it has only a single bag with some gold and gems in it

Tarragon_Slayer

You were luckier than me with the high level chests then, JollyJade. While I haven't had the chance to test extensively, when I dug up a chest with a puzzle, after "solving" the darn thing, I was left with nothing at all, not even gold or gems.

jelinidas

I just don't see the major improvements in loot. Just dug a lvl 6 in fel. 

62 items worth 2294 trash points. I drop 50 stoners there.
6 essence
1 skeleton key
1 tasty treat
approx. 40+ k in gold from chest and spawn
1 lolo's lute in the green bag
2 legendary artifacts. one in chest, one off spawn
1 pink, .5 detect hidden
regs and gems that I leave there
1 forged pardon

I was happy. No silly puzzles. Good spawn. 

Kirthag

So I finally copied over to TC, got my Davie's Lockers placed, and saw this..


Not really happy with this... so removed one and...


So put it back in the chest, and now...


So, I'm I gonna hafta remove all the maps from each Davie's Locker? o.0 And right now I have no idea which is which level.. so erhmehgherd! 

I will have to bounce back and forth to Pac and TC to pull out my hi-level maps.

So far, not completely happy with this. 

Gonna go pop a few of these random low level maps and see what happens. 




Note on Cylinder Puzzle
RT skill is set to 50.0, same as my t-hunting character on prodo shard

1. use RT skill to bring up the puzzle
2. make guess on puzzle
3. wrong guess... puzzle closes
4. have to use RT skill... again... or puzzle will not appear?!?
5. this is not fun now 

Note on Slider Puzzle
I am beyond frustrated right now. Going to just go and kill things now. 

Bilbo

jelinidas said:

I just don't see the major improvements in loot. Just dug a lvl 6 in fel. 

62 items worth 2294 trash points. I drop 50 stoners there.
6 essence
1 skeleton key
1 tasty treat
approx. 40+ k in gold from chest and spawn
1 lolo's lute in the green bag
2 legendary artifacts. one in chest, one off spawn
1 pink, .5 detect hidden
regs and gems that I leave there
1 forged pardon

I was happy. No silly puzzles. Good spawn. 

OMG You just got the rarest Treasure Map in all of UO.  You do understand that there is no such thing as a LVL 6 T-Map on TC.

ZekeTerra

They were talking about doing it in Production, not TC.

jelinidas

Bilbo said:

OMG You just got the rarest Treasure Map in all of UO.  You do understand that there is no such thing as a LVL 6 T-Map on TC.

LOL, this was on prodo. I am saying things, upgrades, on test are not all this great! Did I say this was on TC? Have you seen a new chest with 62 items? Have you found a chest on TC with 6 goodies? I hope you are just busting chops, or you need to read more, post less...

Bilbo

jelinidas said:

Bilbo said:

OMG You just got the rarest Treasure Map in all of UO.  You do understand that there is no such thing as a LVL 6 T-Map on TC.

LOL, this was on prodo. I am saying things, upgrades, on test are not all this great! Did I say this was on TC? Have you seen a new chest with 62 items? Have you found a chest on TC with 6 goodies? I hope you are just busting chops, or you need to read more, post less...

The only LOOT UPDATE is on test and we all know that the junk in current chests are in fact junk that is why T-Hunters asked for an upgrade.  Do you see anybody else posting current prodo results here so maybe you need to troll somewhere else.

jelinidas said:

I just don't see the major improvements in loot. Just dug a lvl 6 in fel. 
No silly puzzles. 

I wounder why there is no loot upgrade then and no wounder there is no puzzle.

jelinidas

Oh Bildo, I was just comparing old to new. Not complaining, just comparing. We will have to agree to disagree, its all good! 

I_was_there_recently

@Kyronix : Back to the question: Would it be possible to remove the puzzle from the Treasure chest and put them instead on chests dropping from Miasma or other monsters dropping trapped chests?

Bilbo

jelinidas said:

Oh Bildo, I was just comparing old to new. Not complaining, just comparing. We will have to agree to disagree, its all good! 

  

JollyJade

jelinidas said:

Oh Bildo, I was just comparing old to new. Not complaining, just comparing. We will have to agree to disagree, its all good! 

It's fairly obvious to everyone that actually did maps on prodo that there is a big loot reduction on TC compared to prodo. And for those that seem to never have done a level 6 or 7 on prodo, you even spell the loot out.

That same loot you do with one level 6 chest on prodo will take you 10+ chests on TC. Many completely boring as you need to do low level maps too for the complete variety of items.

Why Bilbo is getting spun up about you addressing that major concern is beyond me, but each to their own. 

Petra_Fyde

I didn't like the puzzles, then someone told me the slider puzzle was easy. I decided I wasn't going to be beaten by the darn thing, so I got one of the training puzzles from the clicky at brit commons and did it over and over till I'd got the hang of them. 
Puzzles np now - but don't destroy stuff in the chest please, because no one can do them without at least a few failures. 

jaytin

It's not about whether they are hard or easy, most of us that played any kind of adventure games have done hundreds of these puzzles, usually because you can't progress in the game otherwise, but that doesn't mean we enjoy them or want them on t-hunts. Puzzles do not make a t-hunt a group outing.

MissE

jaytin said:

It's not about whether they are hard or easy, most of us that played any kind of adventure games have done hundreds of these puzzles, usually because you can't progress in the game otherwise, but that doesn't mean we enjoy them or want them on t-hunts. Puzzles do not make a t-hunt a group outing.

Agree they are the most boring things ever invented.  I will NOT bother doing tmaps with puzzles, that whole thing just destroyed any fun I had doing them. I do the puzzles on the cub things in eodon once a yr, that is it, after about 6-10 rounds of that quest I don't touch em for the rest of the year because they are boring as all get out. HATE them.

As for putting them on miasma chests I don't want the damn things on there either.  I don't know why we need them at all.  Just because someone had the bright idea to put them in this round of tmaps doesn't mean it was a good idea, no one asked for it and even if you now know how to do em it makes no difference. Boring is boring. I can do them standing on my head, all it is is additional GRIND.  Putting them on miasma chests is just putting additional GRIND to them and will just wreck that experience as well.

Just get rid of the whole idea and leave things alone.

JollyJade

MissE said:

jaytin said:

It's not about whether they are hard or easy, most of us that played any kind of adventure games have done hundreds of these puzzles, usually because you can't progress in the game otherwise, but that doesn't mean we enjoy them or want them on t-hunts. Puzzles do not make a t-hunt a group outing.

Agree they are the most boring things ever invented.  I will NOT bother doing tmaps with puzzles, that whole thing just destroyed any fun I had doing them. I do the puzzles on the cub things in eodon once a yr, that is it, after about 6-10 rounds of that quest I don't touch em for the rest of the year because they are boring as all get out. HATE them.

As for putting them on miasma chests I don't want the damn things on there either.  I don't know why we need them at all.  Just because someone had the bright idea to put them in this round of tmaps doesn't mean it was a good idea, no one asked for it and even if you now know how to do em it makes no difference. Boring is boring. I can do them standing on my head, all it is is additional GRIND.  Putting them on miasma chests is just putting additional GRIND to them and will just wreck that experience as well.

Just get rid of the whole idea and leave things alone.

Wait until you see the loot in the new chests. The puzzles are not even the problem at this point. Even if the puzzles don't make it to prodo, the chests have 90% less loot on TC right now.

Even if you get over the puzzles, all the cut out loot will make you not bother with this anymore.

I wish things looked more positive, but for someone who spent hundreds of hours on prodo doing those chests it is crystal clear that all this will make you spend a lot more time (past are the day where you find an orb, a pardon, refinements, etc. in one chest), fight a lot less challenging guardians (even the highest levels on TC only spawned 4) and receive a lot less loot in return.

I didn't read about putting puzzles on Miasma chests. Pretty lame but if the loot goes live everything else won't matter anyway and this will be a dead profession apart from those people that only do maps on TC now and won't even bother on prodo once it's a year old. Some of them don't even recognize the current prodo loot when you show them lol.

Lipstick on a pig at this point.

Minerva_Foxglove

I even like the puzzles ..for training . Im doing them on TC just to really get hang on it ..and now im at 71 skill, doing them a bit now and then. Still im absolutely against having them on chest. If im in company it will be utterly boring for the company , I will feel the pressure and fail even more. Even if I do them alone just losing items when tere wasnt many even from the beginning, isnt enhancing the experience for us. I dont mind if failures created spawn or damaged me , just let me keep the loot I worked for. If there has to be a puzzle ..I think I said this before..put one of the pretty training puzzle boxes in the chest as loot . with something special in it and let us do the pozzle in our house . Or let someone else have it.