Pub 105 - Treasure Map Update Phase I *See new thread!*

Tanager

Even if people do get attacked... folks need to learn to deal with reality. Regular exposure to Felucca can help people develop the following coping skills:

1) Coping with the reality that some people are jerks. You can avoid them and learn nothing, or learn a very useful life skill on how to deal with your own instinctive reactions to people so that you do not become so upset and escalate situations. Learning how to deal with obnoxious people is a valuable tool, and can ONLY be learned through exposure and practice. Felucca offers a fairly safe way to do this.

2) Coping with not always winning or getting what you want.

3) Coping with the notion that you are not the best at something.

4) Coping with the reality that most material possessions are replaceable - especially pixels.

5) Coping with the fact that sometimes you set out to do something and the universe conspires against you for failure. Any number of tasks can go south for a lot of reasons all the way from poor planning to just plain bad luck. Being able to deal with that and move on with your life is a valuable skill.

When UO was first created, the players had full freedom to do basically anything at all. The creators believed this was a rich and diverse environment, which could be fun or terrible depending on an individual's perspective. It offered the full gamut of human interaction, without all of the RL consequences that can come with making a social mistake.

Now, folks can stay in Tram and never learn any of these things. They can rattle off all the reasons why they believe their avoidance is perfectly justifiable, and that is fine. This is just a game, and people do their own thing in their own way. But please try to remember the origins of Ultima Online, and the people who still choose to live free. Being passionate about the whole Power Scroll thing is fine, but hating on PvPers and people who live in that world is doing absolutely nothing to forward your case - in fact, I would suggest quite the opposite.

I fully support adding incentives to get people to go to Fel. If people get attacked, if they get yelled at, there is at least a tiny chance that they can learn from it. Probably not - humans are by nature resistant to change - but it is possible. I am sorry if my opinion is offensive to folks, but you can choose not to go to Fel. Removing the only real reason to go there is just not something I want to see.

popps

Petra_Fyde said:

Do I do fel treasure maps?  Yes, all the time
Do I do other stuff in fel? Yes all the time
Do I get pk'd in fel?  Nope, I just use a bit of discretion about where I go and when I go there. 
Do I expect to get pk'd as a result of this change?  Nope, see the answer above. 
Sorry, but all this talk of not going to fel because you'll get pk'd, in my opinion, is just needless panic. Don't do maps in high traffic areas at peak times and you'll be fine, honestly.

https://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

"Non-consensual PvP was a mistake

Naturally, PvP came up during the panels and the Q&A afterward. As painful as it may sound, one thing all the developers agreed on was that non-consensual PvP was a mistake."

To be noted.... "one thing all the developers agreed on"....

As I said in a post to someone else, one's own chances to get Raided in Felucca by PvPers vary depending on the Shard, how numerous and active (and organized) that Shard's PvP population may be and all that.

Regardless though about all that, at least to my opinion, the DESIGN should be one such that was not to either force players to "have to go" to Felucca (and thus subject them to PvP with either a larger or lower likeliness, depending on Shard, active PvP population etc. etc.) OR to engage into mindless (and burning out) extensive grind gameplay elsewhere, in places "other" then Felucca, in order to then afford the absurd prices that Powerscrolls have reached (and have always had) because of their exclusivity in Felucca and of their Monopoly in the hands of only a few PvP players. And why do I think that ? Because I think it hurts Ultima Online as a whole !! It loses players to it (because of the burning out grinds it forces on some players OR the non-consensual PvP), is my opinion....

It was striking, at least for me, that ALL of the Developers agreed that non-consensual PvP was a mistake.....

So, TODAY there is the chance to do something about changing that, at least a little, and make Powerscrolls available, albeit in a lower capacity (only 105, 110 and 115) on Facets other the Felucca through Treasure Maps and we want to get such a chance be lost and leave them only in Felucca thus not changing anything and remaining them a Monopoly and their prices outrageously high which can have adverse effect and players, as I tried to explain, and on the players' base for Ultima Onlne as a whole ?

Go figure....

Tanager

Come to think of it, maybe the devs should just get rid of Felucca. The folks who want a world of freedom and human interaction can all come to Siege or Mugen. Put all the champion spawns in Tram, and let that market correct itself over time. Put VvV in Tram, like factions used to be, which would make it consensual PvP.

Without dividing the population, maybe both sides can be happy.

popps

Tanager said:

Even if people do get attacked... folks need to learn to deal with reality. Regular exposure to Felucca can help people develop the following coping skills:

1) Coping with the reality that some people are jerks. You can avoid them and learn nothing, or learn a very useful life skill on how to deal with your own instinctive reactions to people so that you do not become so upset and escalate situations. Learning how to deal with obnoxious people is a valuable tool, and can ONLY be learned through exposure and practice. Felucca offers a fairly safe way to do this.

2) Coping with not always winning or getting what you want.

3) Coping with the notion that you are not the best at something.

4) Coping with the reality that most material possessions are replaceable - especially pixels.

5) Coping with the fact that sometimes you set out to do something and the universe conspires against you for failure. Any number of tasks can go south for a lot of reasons all the way from poor planning to just plain bad luck. Being able to deal with that and move on with your life is a valuable skill.

When UO was first created, the players had full freedom to do basically anything at all. The creators believed this was a rich and diverse environment, which could be fun or terrible depending on an individual's perspective. It offered the full gamut of human interaction, without all of the RL consequences that can come with making a social mistake.

Now, folks can stay in Tram and never learn any of these things. They can rattle off all the reasons why they believe their avoidance is perfectly justifiable, and that is fine. This is just a game, and people do their own thing in their own way. But please try to remember the origins of Ultima Online, and the people who still choose to live free. Being passionate about the whole Power Scroll thing is fine, but hating on PvPers and people who live in that world is doing absolutely nothing to forward your case - in fact, I would suggest quite the opposite.

I fully support adding incentives to get people to go to Fel. If people get attacked, if they get yelled at, there is at least a tiny chance that they can learn from it. Probably not - humans are by nature resistant to change - but it is possible. I am sorry if my opinion is offensive to folks, but you can choose not to go to Fel. Removing the only real reason to go there is just not something I want to see.

We can look at it on many angles and perspectives but the END result is before our eyes...

Powerscrolls being a Monopoly in the hands of a few PvP players, mostly, and, as a consequence and result of this, their prices being outrageously high.

Any talk of perspective falls short before this realistic factors....

And what do high prices for Powerscrolls mean, as I have been trying to argue ?

For those PvM players who do NOT want to deal with PvP and what it is about and implies, mindless and absurd grinds in order to be able to afford their outrageous prices.

Like it or not, that is how it is, at least to my viewing.

Some players might cope with these absurd grinds, others might not.

And what would those players do, if those extensive grinds they might subject themselves to, in order to put together the large amounts of gold needed to afford those High Powerscrolls prices, were to burn them out ?

Quit playing Ultima Online althougether, perhaps ?

And if players leave Ultima Online, especially if being new or returning players (those most affected by high prices for Powerscrolls, I would imagine), how can this ever be considered a good thing for the game ?

To have 105, 110 and 115 Powerscrolls spawn in Treasure Maps in ALL Facets, not only Felucca, could be a good step towards the direction of calming down those absurd Powerscrolls' prices.... of course, if their chances to spawn will be a good one and not a rare one, but if they will only be limited to Felucca ?

They will not do a dent into Powerscrolls' high prices and, is my worry, everything will stay as it is and the problems of Powerscrolls' prices being too high and forcing many PvM players into alienating grind gameplaying to afford them will remain....

At least, that is the way I see it.

Tanager

Anyway... back on topic...

Has anyone done a Pit run and the Zippy subquest for the map? I would like to test that but can't solo the Pit.

Rorschach

Kyronix said:

We are still in the process of balancing the loot distribution as well as creating new loot items.  Nobody is attempting to force people into Fel, as the majority of the loot is available across all facets with specific facets offering specific item types as described in the notes.  The only must-have Fel specific item is Powerscrolls, this continues to be in line with the current design implementation of those items.  Care is being taken to distribute it so this scenario is not the case, and we look forward to feedback as we move through the process.

I am going to take this as policy. Please refrain from the powerscroll debate in this thread. Let us focus on the stated purpose of the thread. None of the already posted opinions will be removed, but please avoid reposting already stated opinions. Thank you.

Petra_Fyde

Europa

k, feedback.
I like the shield engraving tool, but I'm not sure having it the same colour as the tinker made metal container engraving tool is a good choice.

I won't be doing Eodon maps alone.  I successfully completed stash and supply maps,but I've nothing in my mystic/weaver arsenal that allows me to effectively combat the saurosaurus and demitrisaurus (neither of which I can spell) that spawned on the cache map.  I daren't try horde and trove, it would not be polite of me to dig up a large number of creatures I can't kill. I think those maps will have to be guild events.

I did get a little confused digging a stash map in the tiger spawn area, tigers that spawned on the map were not tagged 'guardian' so it was difficult to know whether I'd killed the ones I needed to in order to open the chest.

Merus

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

@ Merus this has most of the information you are looking for https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/treasure-maps/

@ Kyronix

That doesn’t appear to be updated yet.

Right - but you can infer which mobs went where based on the publish notes.  That page will be updated when everything is finalized.

I guess my assumption was that the new trove maps would have guardians that were more difficult and did not spawn as guardians prior to this publish.  That is primarily being driven by the Trex spawning in the Eodon map.  I was trying to better understand if that is correct and what the new harder guardians would be for each facet.

Kyronix

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

Merus said:

Kyronix said:

@ Merus this has most of the information you are looking for https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/gameplay/treasure-maps/

@ Kyronix

That doesn’t appear to be updated yet.

Right - but you can infer which mobs went where based on the publish notes.  That page will be updated when everything is finalized.

I guess my assumption was that the new trove maps would have guardians that were more difficult and did not spawn as guardians prior to this publish.  That is primarily being driven by the Trex spawning in the Eodon map.  I was trying to better understand if that is correct and what the new harder guardians would be for each facet.

I gotcha - the Eodon maps are completely new, so nothing to go off.  Those maps are going to certainly need a balance pass for mob difficulty.

Tanager

Are we supposed to mention bugs here, or just the in-game feedback?

KHAN

Tanager said:

Are we supposed to mention bugs here, or just the in-game feedback?

@Kyronix doesn't seem to be responding to posts about bugs. At least not mine.

Whessles

@Kyronix

I hope you had the time to read some of my posts once I could actually dig maps. 
The loot, while the correct items, are being undermined by the properties being placed on them.
One would assume this change was designed to make the loot more useful to the general archetype of character that the hidden loot is labeled for.
In practice, this is currently not the case. When I have time I will do my bst to list more items that are obviously not "designed" with the character type listed in the map name.  

Kyronix

Please continue this discussion in the new thread here

Thank you to everyone who has participated so far!  If you have provided detailed feedback, please consider reposting it to the above thread so we can keep the feedback stream clean and concise.  This will help us immensely!

@Tanager & @KHAN can you can post your bugs in the new thread, this one is getting a little diluted so trying to clean things up - thanks!