High Seas Update: Treasure Chests & MIB Treasures

Kyronix

Stealing is a tough nut to crack as it were - while anything major is definitely not in scope for at least the next two publishes it's something I think about often to see where we can do minor hooks like we've done in the past.  Anything PvP thief related though, well that's another bar of chocolate entirely.

I think the overall goal with the trapped compartment is that it gives a reason to have Remove Trap.  We've got plenty of uses for DH, but remove trap not so much.  We would likely explore removing the DH requirement for Remove Trap and take a good look at traps completely.  Would have to dig into it more to nail down some details, but at the onset it would be 100 skill points invested in an otherwise mostly useless skill to get some new loot.  Once its worthwhile to have we can expand it further to trapped areas in encounters and such - but I'm getting ahead of myself.  At least that's the current thinking with remove trap - free up the mining slot on T-Hunter templates and make Remove Trap worthwhile to a better extent.

ZekeTerra

Not to derail the topic, but Thieves were a lot of fun to play during the Halloween Event.  I wish you had left the hidden chests after it was over.

LilyGrace

That sounds totally doable. I'm relieved at the idea we won't have to free up 200 points, using both DH and Remove.

Yeah, stealing has always been problematic. Even if you're not a problem child when looking to use the skill. 

Enjoying exploring the possibilities in all of this. Thanks again, Kyronix.

Okami

Thanks for the replies so far @Kyronix !

I agree that detect hidden being a requirement for removing trap is not really necessary. I would suggest "maybe" having a skill success increase on Remove Trap for having DH, but that might be overkill. I feel like Remove Trap at GM should do the job for all Traps, considering the side effects of failure.

I'm curious, I wasn't aware DH was used much aside from Exodus Dungeon and seasonal content. Without spoilers, is there broad examples of where this is the case?

Kyronix

Okami said:

Thanks for the replies so far @ Kyronix !

I agree that detect hidden being a requirement for removing trap is not really necessary. I would suggest "maybe" having a skill success increase on Remove Trap for having DH, but that might be overkill. I feel like Remove Trap at GM should do the job for all Traps, considering the side effects of failure.

I'm curious, I wasn't aware DH was used much aside from Exodus Dungeon and seasonal content. Without spoilers, is there broad examples of where this is the case?

The hidden chests are the most evident use of DH, and some other stuff, that's well hidden :P

The_Higgs_1

I like some of the ideas to help t-mapping.  My question I why is loot soo much better on roof, exodus and shadowlord vs everything else in game?  The global loot change that happened back what 5 years ago now, did quite of bit of damage to the game.  It jumped over what could have been like 10 patches worth of upgrades over the years.   I also think the legendary loot has been bugged this whole time with high resists.  I see the prefix and suffix on loot and it doesn't match up with the loot.  Only of defense is suppose to raise resist yet all loot over major it seems gets 3-5 resists over cap.   I would love to see a balance of loot across many bosses versus just the same few.  I would also like to see a huge increase in new content, this is what the game needs as its incredibly boring as it is now.  give people a reason to run in groups and fight something different that is permanent and good for the game in both pvm and pvp.

LilyGrace

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

I feel you

Kyronix

More than 1 ship per account is not likely to happen. Sorry.

Kyronix

Uriah_Heep said:

I am sure as we get better goods, and more rewards, the team will feel the overwhelming need to up the difficulty of the mobs spawned.  

Please, however, keep in mind that not all of us play on atlantic, so either scale the spawn reasonably by how many are there, or something.   Cause we cant always get 6 people together...

There's actually no plan to change any of the mobs that currently spawn - making new creatures is a fairly work intensive process so re-using what we have spawning in chests is much easier.

The mobs will continue to spawn with regard to the quality of the loot inside.  Of course this is going to take some balancing and I encourage everyone to check it out when it comes on TC1.  

Right now we are collecting feedback on what expectations are for this particular batch of content, so we can effectively scope it out.  If you'd like to contribute, by all means, let us know what you'd like to see out of an update.

Just remember - be as specific as you can.  I can't really work with "make the loot better and don't make it a grind."

LilyGrace

Look how well you can organize fish in a barrel!

I bet that barrel could be put in a ship's hold. Maybe it wouldn't even weigh that much if you wanted to take it out and stow it, then go hunt pirates!

KHAN

@Kyronix ; I think that new recipes (similar to the Doom ones using existing items plus something similar to Dark Father Blood, but only found in treasure chests) would be a nice addition to the higher level chests. 

Arron

amit said:

Does Broadsword pay you to argue or sometthing Bilbo? Every post I make you're the first to respond. Usually with a bad idea.

No offense, but I've looked over some threads with your input and your ideas, along with Tim''s removing powerscrolls and ikeelu''s non PvP server idea -WHAT?! These kinds of ideas would be monumentously hazardous to UO. Especially during these times and the state of the game in 2019.

I fail to grasp and understand why so many of you want to take risk vs reward out of this game. "Give me everything for doing nothing"
How is that enjoyable? 

I think I've finally realized something: this game is like a twenty- something year old dog that's suffering from arthritis, riddled with cancer and old age. Maybe it is best to just put her down once and for all instead of letting the poor animal continue to go on suffering. I've tried and tried to find a competent veterinarian to fix the poor old dog's problems, but lo and behold none of them have a clue to what ails the poor beast.

Sorry for ranting. I just wonder if the development team actually even reads these posts.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, but it is not one I share. I know I am not alone when I say" There are problems and issues with UO, but I enjoy most of the content and there is still much I have not done in the game and I have been playing for more than 17 years". In my opinion UO has a lot of life in it and many years of enjoyment to give. 

Tim

Arron said:

amit said:

Does Broadsword pay you to argue or sometthing Bilbo? Every post I make you're the first to respond. Usually with a bad idea.

No offense, but I've looked over some threads with your input and your ideas, along with Tim''s removing powerscrolls and ikeelu''s non PvP server idea -WHAT?! These kinds of ideas would be monumentously hazardous to UO. Especially during these times and the state of the game in 2019.

I fail to grasp and understand why so many of you want to take risk vs reward out of this game. "Give me everything for doing nothing"
How is that enjoyable? 

I think I've finally realized something: this game is like a twenty- something year old dog that's suffering from arthritis, riddled with cancer and old age. Maybe it is best to just put her down once and for all instead of letting the poor animal continue to go on suffering. I've tried and tried to find a competent veterinarian to fix the poor old dog's problems, but lo and behold none of them have a clue to what ails the poor beast.

Sorry for ranting. I just wonder if the development team actually even reads these posts.

In your opinion, which you are entitled to of course, but it is not one I share. I know I am not alone when I say" There are problems and issues with UO, but I enjoy most of the content and there is still much I have not done in the game and I have been playing for more than 17 years". In my opinion UO has a lot of life in it and many years of enjoyment to give. 

I agree with Arron and in my opinion doing nothing about the issues is even more of a hazard to the game then doing nothing. But that is just my opinion and I've been playing for 19 year and hope to be for many more.

Since you made this personal amit a hint. If every respond you get is "Usually with a bad idea" maybe you'r the one who is wrong.

Just saying 

Petra_Fyde

Kyronix said:

The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

My current template is cartography, lockpick, mining (GM), magery, mysticism, focus, spellweaving. That allows me to do up to level 7, excluding Ilshenar - and the guild don't want to help me with those. Paragon changelings are a pain. I try to get at least one of the tamers to join me when doing 7s for Fel or Tram so they can tame a frost dragon.
I don't do soul stones.  I keep those solely for a complete character change when I decide the template I'm using doesn't work, but want the option to change back if I find I've made a mistake. I've never used them for casually switching a character back and forth between skill sets. 
My thief has detect hidden, but that's a whole other playstyle. Neither have remove trap, even on Siege remove trap is rarely trained, players preferring to have high fire resist and hp instead and take the hit. The skill would need to give some significant advantage to make it desirable in the template.

jaytin

My template is similar to Petra, I don't want to be forced to change it, I really don't see the need for thief skills on a t-hunter. I don't have a thief and I don't want one. I agree with Petra regarding swapping skills, I really don't want to be forced to swap skills in and out when I already made a template that worked, I don't use soulstones that way. I also don't want to be forced to use two chars to t-hunt. Why can't we just have the loot revamp that people actually wanted? 

Urge

Kyronix said:

Treasure chests are one of the core experiences in UO, and finding a treasure map has gotten many improvements over the years to making the process of acquiring and finding treasure chests more enjoyable

We want to build on that and make improvements to the overall systems to make them even more enjoyable.  


Streamlining the systems to cut down on any mechanics that feel clunky or overly complex

Please don't forget how it'll effect the Davie Locker for those die hard thunters.

I would like to suggest the addition similar to the current VvV system of an active alter. Once a map is decoded, a leader arrow could point to the general area within a couple screens. Provided one is on the correct facet of course.

Gauge

A more controversial idea might be 105 - 110  power scrolls in top level Felucca maps. from Petra Fyde.

Since returning to the game I spend a great deal of my time helping the new/young and returning players out with info and also helping supply gear they will need to get in the game and make it fun for them, rather than they get discouraged and just leave the game again.

One thing that we would all benefit from is a thriving game everyone enjoys and to increase the fan/player gamebase.

The matter that always crops up is the cost of powerscrolls is well out of the reach of new and returning players due to the millions/billions of gold non leavers have managed to gather over the years and the way this has pushed the economics of the game to be so high.  Also the use Of PS's now being used on Pets has made the lower end PS's vertually unavailabe/obtainable.

A lot of the players i have met and helped over the past 14 months would be happy to have just some way of getting the lower scrolls for them to boost their characters.so they may one day be able to attemt getting the higher scrolls from the Champ spawns and risking getting mobbed by PKs in the process (not having a go at them its part of gameplay) .

The suggerstion of getting them from T Chest in Fel seems a sensible idea that would help these players out and the whole game in the long run as these players would not get disheartened and a higher percentage would end up staying/subscribing to the game.

I know this is sort of off topic but not when you take into account it would be a change to the Treasure Chest and rewards part.

Merus

@Kyronix

A suggestion regarding adding remove trap as a bonus for loot:

The fun of a treasure maps is not about how many steps it takes to dig up and open a chest... if there is something to be learned from the plant growing process or the cannon firing process it is that simplicity is desired.  Please consider just making a skill check for remove trap when the lock is picked...  

“You fail to pick the lock”
“You pick the lock but fail to disarm the traps”
”You pick the lock and successfully disarm the traps”

If you pick the lock but fail on the trap you could then use the remove trap skill on the chest to try again.

Cinderella

I like the idea of removing mining... but the other two skills... not liking that part... I prefer to use telekinesis 

Lieutenant_Dan

This is a bit of a stretch but it's been mentioned numerous times in other threads.

Add IDOC loot to treasure chests.

The reasoning behind this crazy idea is because IDOCs are so heavily scripted that honest players quit doing them because they can't compete with the cheaters.  I don't mean to derail your thread with discussion on idocs but this was one of the ideas people had to help curb the scripting.

Adding all of the items from an idoc house to treasure chests doesn't really seem feasible but perhaps a comprehensive list of top tier items that players would have displayed in a house could be made.  When the house falls those items would go into a queue status waiting to be added to a treasure chest. 

Uriah_Heep

Lieutenant_Dan said:

This is a bit of a stretch but it's been mentioned numerous times in other threads.

Add IDOC loot to treasure chests.

The reasoning behind this crazy idea is because IDOCs are so heavily scripted that honest players quit doing them because they can't compete with the cheaters.  I don't mean to derail your thread with discussion on idocs but this was one of the ideas people had to help curb the scripting.

Adding all of the items from an idoc house to treasure chests doesn't really seem feasible but perhaps a comprehensive list of top tier items that players would have displayed in a house could be made.  When the house falls those items would go into a queue status waiting to be added to a treasure chest. 

I love this idea, always have

Cinderella

if you change tmaps to 1-5, what happens to the maps already in the game?
will they be worthless or would the levels on them automatically change?

Kyronix

Cinderella said:

if you change tmaps to 1-5, what happens to the maps already in the game?
will they be worthless or would the levels on them automatically change?

They would convert to the new scheme.

popps

Calavera said:

@ Kyronix Understand about not working in new skills as part of this effort, and please keep in mind the suggestions I made towards that would be optional for players. I agree with the others and you that t-maps are a big part of gameplay for a lot of folks, so definitely don't rock the boat too hard.

That said, I just finished my 18th t-map in the last 24 hours. These were all lvl 5 and lvl 6 (mostly 5) in Fel, Ilsh, Malas, and Termur. I was doing them to find a Mana Orb for a pvp suit I'm building on Siege. Guess how many of those chests had orbs? (I'm wearing a 2000 Luck suit, and the account is 5? years old, so add on that luck bonus from statue for some of those):

1 Mana Orb. And of course since there are many varieties, it wasn't the one I needed.

This isn't an argument in favor of the 'just gimme what I want on the first try' mindset, but I DO believe that the pot could be sweetened for t-chests, to use your own words. After 18 digs with only 1 success it kinda takes one's enthusiasm down a few notches.

So anything you can do to even out the digs would be great!

"1 Mana Orb. And of course since there are many varieties, it wasn't the one I needed."

This would not be an issue "if" a Shard was to be sufficiently populated that one could trade that 1 Orb of a variety one does not need, with someone else who may instead have the Orb we need and want the one we have....

Unfortunately, as we know, scarcity of players often means not being able to find fellow players on our Shard to "trade" the whatever scarce "rare" items we may get with the ones we actually want/need.

Perhaps @Kyronix (?) the developers could come forward and set up some NPCs where players could go to and trade the rare items they find but not need with other rare items of comparable value/rarity but which they actually need and could make good use of ?

This could help, I think, quite a lot players to alleviate the difficulties of finding fellow players on their shard to trade items with....

popps

Bilbo said:

popps said:

By the way, @ Kyronix , will it be possible to have more then 1 Ship in the Sea per account ?

I am asking, because I am currently heavily doing fishing trying to "catch up" after having been away for long.... and my ship's Hold is filled with fish and anything I need for fishing Quests, of course...

Which it means, that I could not use it for Ship combat as I do not want to risk losing all the work so far done fishing....

Sure, I could empty the Hold when I need to engage into Ship combat but it would be a pain having to switch back and forth with the Ship from fishing to going into Ship combat....

Therefore, my question about the need to be able to have more then 1 Ship at Sea per account.... so that I can have 1 for my Fishing quests and another to enjoy Ship combat content that will be provided by the High Seas Update.....

Thanks !

Deed the fish and take them to your bank or house.

As I said, I know it "can" be done but it still would be a pain if one needs to switch from fishing to Ship Combat all the time....

Fill up hold for fishing, empty hold when going Ship combat, rinse and repeat any time over and over one needs to change type of playing...

A pain....

Being able, instead, to have a second boat, would solve this with no pain....

popps

Kyronix said:

To answer some of the questions -

The lock pick kit would be something non-lockpick skilled characters could use to get into chests in place of magic unlock.  The item would be crafted via tinkering (sans the actual tinkering skill) by GM lock picks.  I almost think using magic unlock to unlock a chest is pointless - ya there aren't really a lot of uses for magic unlock, but Mages have a huge buffet of very useful spells to choose from, lock picks on the other hand...not so much.  This also brings into question the skeleton keys which kind of make the entire point moot anyway.  Would have to take a look and make a balance pass were we to do something like this.  It's also worth noting - how many T-Hunters are either running without lock picking or stone it off once the chest is unlocked?

As far the telekinesis/special compartment stuff - the initial idea would be that telekinesis would prevent access to the specialty loot, providing a reward for the investment in the skill.  I think it's a good idea to talk about T-Hunter templates in general.  The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

We've established that between the EC features and Davies' Locker mining is moot.  If we swap mining functionality to cartography, which in theory makes sense (better at reading maps) you get the same bonus from a skill you already have.  

That leaves you 300+ (assuming all GM) skill points to customize out the remainder depending on what role you are taking as the T-Hunter.  

Another way to approach this would a box that could be removed from the chest that would have to be picked off site.  I've played just about every lock picking mini-game every game has come up with and none of them make you really go - ooooo! lock picking mini-game!  So I'm not sure that we need to go down that rabbit hole, but something that satiates that "rogue" sensation wouldn't be unwelcome I don't think.

I think for SoS treasure bringing it down to two levels (regular, special) of SoS makes sense, with some unique rewards available to just SoS treasure would reinvigorate that content.  On my fisher I usually have some low level fighting skills to handle sea serpents, and I don't see a ton of mileage out of making a "group" SoS spawn since we already have net tosses and the like.

Another important thing is, that if Treasure Hunters were to invest 300 Skill points in 

Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

Then the "bonus" that such investment of skill points (some 45% of the overall pool of 720 points available) was to award (quality of items obtainable thanking to having these 300 extra skill points) should be commensurable to such a large investment of skill points on the template....

Kyronix

For those who are thinking DH would be required should we do anything with Remove Trap as it relates to treasure chests...the DH requirement for Remote Trap would no longer apply - so you'd be switching out Mining (which would be covered by Cartography) with Remove Trap.  So we are talking about a 1:1 skill switch, not a 1:2.

popps

Kyronix said:

For those who are thinking DH would be required should we do anything with Remove Trap as it relates to treasure chests...the DH requirement for Remote Trap would no longer apply - so you'd be switching out Mining (which would be covered by Cartography) with Remove Trap.  So we are talking about a 1:1 skill switch, not a 1:2.

Well, if a "hidden", "secret" additional compartment/pouch was to be added to the Treasure Chest in order to consent additional gameplay for a rogue character, I imagine that Detect Hidden would then be a "must have" in order to find such an additional secret/hidden compartment/pouch with additional goodies in it....

As well as to have Remove Trap and Lockpicking in order to clear it of traps and open it up to loot the special, additional content...

Sure, this would be "additional" content which Treasure Hunters lacking those 3 additional skills could very well disregard but chances are, that if Treasure Chests will come with additional secret compartments/pouches most players might want to actually loot them too....

So, one way or the other, it is necessary to have to deal with the need to "squeeze" into a Treasure Hunting Template also Detect Hidden, Remove Trap and Lockpicking whereas many Treasure Hunter templates just use telekinesis and even do without Remove Trap and just suffer the loss of items for the trap to go off....

So, I expect, quite many Treasure Hunting templates might get into heavy difficulties to have to accomodate also Detect Hidden, Remove Trap and Lockpicking....

Drakelord

Kyronix said:

To answer some of the questions -

The lock pick kit would be something non-lockpick skilled characters could use to get into chests in place of magic unlock.  The item would be crafted via tinkering (sans the actual tinkering skill) by GM lock picks.  I almost think using magic unlock to unlock a chest is pointless - ya there aren't really a lot of uses for magic unlock, but Mages have a huge buffet of very useful spells to choose from, lock picks on the other hand...not so much.  This also brings into question the skeleton keys which kind of make the entire point moot anyway.  Would have to take a look and make a balance pass were we to do something like this.  It's also worth noting - how many T-Hunters are either running without lock picking or stone it off once the chest is unlocked?

As far the telekinesis/special compartment stuff - the initial idea would be that telekinesis would prevent access to the specialty loot, providing a reward for the investment in the skill.  I think it's a good idea to talk about T-Hunter templates in general.  The absolute minimum skill requirements would be, 

Cartography
Lockpicking
Remove Trap
Detecting Hidden

We've established that between the EC features and Davies' Locker mining is moot.  If we swap mining functionality to cartography, which in theory makes sense (better at reading maps) you get the same bonus from a skill you already have.  

That leaves you 300+ (assuming all GM) skill points to customize out the remainder depending on what role you are taking as the T-Hunter.  

Another way to approach this would a box that could be removed from the chest that would have to be picked off site.  I've played just about every lock picking mini-game every game has come up with and none of them make you really go - ooooo! lock picking mini-game!  So I'm not sure that we need to go down that rabbit hole, but something that satiates that "rogue" sensation wouldn't be unwelcome I don't think.

I think for SoS treasure bringing it down to two levels (regular, special) of SoS makes sense, with some unique rewards available to just SoS treasure would reinvigorate that content.  On my fisher I usually have some low level fighting skills to handle sea serpents, and I don't see a ton of mileage out of making a "group" SoS spawn since we already have net tosses and the like.

You killed one temp plate ages ago, she was a mage thief stealth t hunter then, I stone off Cart and went straight thief when you took standard locations of maps to random locations and had to have mining to dig it up.   Now you going to kill my tamer mage t hunter, what are you thinking of?  where am I going to put Remove Trap and Detecting Hidden on a tamer/mage temp plate?  I have to stone off cart for mining to dig the chest up, now you going to force me to change everything again?  I can see using Remove Trap and Detecting Hidden in dungeons, I have a character for that as well.  Mage/myst/stealth/ninja.  I had to stone off Myst when I put Remove Trap and Detecting Hidden on that one.  There no room for a tamer t hunter using your four require skills, a tamer needs magery along with taming/lore and Vet that four skill and at GM level 400pts.  So you just killed my favor character by saying you have to have  
Cartography, Lockpicking   &   Remove Trap Detecting Hidden

Kyronix

You wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  I'm saying that outright - if we were to incorporate Remove Trap in any meaningful way, you wouldn't need Detecting Hidden.  DH has a well versed use in finding hidden things in quest chains, and in dungeon chests.  We don't need it here.  

@popps - if you aren't running lockpicking on your TH, how are you opening chests?  Magic Unlock? Skeleton keys?  Please also remember we are talking about removing mining as a requirement, and moving the search radius bonus to cartography - which frees up a skill.