High Seas Update: Treasure Chests & MIB Treasures

Uriah_Heep

6) - What is the point to get Forged Pardons ? Does anyone still use these or are they totally worhtless to find ?


They killed the pardons with the VvV pardon.   Used to sell like crazy, but not anymore

Minerva_Foxglove

Water tiles is on my wishlist for looong! Just one thing, we need to be able to walk on them and place things on them when we decorate!

Mervyn

Uriah_Heep said:

6) - What is the point to get Forged Pardons ? Does anyone still use these or are they totally worhtless to find ?


They killed the pardons with the VvV pardon.   Used to sell like crazy, but not anymore

Actually the royal forged pardon compliments the market for forged pardons:
Murderers who would typically have 1k counts eat a pardon to go blue to get city buff, then continue murdering and eat normal pardons. There’s no way someone will eat a 16 mill royal forged pardon for say 10 counts..

They don’t sell for so much anymore just because fell is now generally fairly dead, complex issues such as shard shields destroying powerscroll market, (each month more and more accounts get them) instadress on both clients ruining pvp. 

Grim

• Lockpicking should not destroy items randomly on a fail with GM lockpicking - spawn a monster instead? (If you keep the item destruction - there is a bug where multiple items get destroyed on one pick attempt.)
• Level 8 maps out of level 7 chests. Spawns a boss type mob with same frequency as ancient nets - or more often since you have to relocate to dig up the next chest. Give the boss a new unique similar to small soul forge.
• ability to sort davie's locker by facet and level.
• for the sadists - ensure the character has the required catrography to attempt to dig the chest. spawn the chest on the last dig motion so that a character cannot start the fight invisible... muahaha

Rhombus

As a lifetime T-Hunter I mostly do just level 4 fel maps and worldwide 6&7, I don't bother looking at magic items under level 6 so those maps are fast.

For my wish I would like in the EC in the mini map the "YOU" to be able to be toggled off, The green dot is sufficient for me to see my location.

Lieutenant_Dan

Heck ya!  I love doing t-maps so big thanks for giving this some love!

How about adding treasure maps to the Valley of Eodon and the lost lands (t2a) in Tram and Fel?

Bilbo

There are a lot of OUTSTANDING ideas here.

Okami

I've done some treasure hunting, both as just a guard for the actual digger, and the digger myself. So I do have some feedback, mostly from a gameplay balance angle. I'm hoping it all sounds reasonable.

• With the advent of soulstones, mining has become redundant and doesn't actually affect the digging process. Meanwhile, Cartography can just be stored forever until maps need decoding, then stored again. The solution to both simplify the process and keep Cartography as an active part of the Treasure Hunter Skill Template would be for the Cartography skill to give the increased dig radius. This makes sense, as having the map knowledge at the dig site should make it easier to locate the treasure spot.
  
  
• With new loot being added and reviewed, it's time to penalize the "Telekinesis" Loophole on opening chests. I'm not saying don't make it work at all, but much like a Lockpicking Failure will result in broken loot, have a trap detonation also do so. Make the top tier loot require the rogue set (Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Lockpicking) for picking the chest as a result.
  
  
• Also include as part of this revamp a review of static and above ground spawning chest loot. Apply the same effects for destroyed items on failed Lockpick and Trapping failures as listed above, and add in perils like guardian spawns on failure or such, to justify the increased reward. Perhaps have some items be stealable from the chests. This would make the "Thief" archetype an interesting run, Hide/Stealth/Lockpick/Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Stealing, with a splash on a skill to shore up a hole.
  
  
• It's probably shooting way too far, but with the focus on chests, it might be a window to add some more use to the Remove Trap skill. There's already quests that allow people with Remove Trap to place traps, so perhaps some new Tinker Recipes for placeable traps that run off the Remove Trap skill. (I'd say rename it to "Trapping" and have it be for disarming and arming traps, but I feel like that is just way too much a hassle and likely to break things.
  
  
• The Detect Hidden mechanic from the Exodus dungeon needs to have it's love spread around to several other dungeons, to help add value to the skill. This could be part of locating the improved above ground spawn chests, in fact.
  

popps

Okami said:

I've done some treasure hunting, both as just a guard for the actual digger, and the digger myself. So I do have some feedback, mostly from a gameplay balance angle. I'm hoping it all sounds reasonable.

• With the advent of soulstones, mining has become redundant and doesn't actually affect the digging process. Meanwhile, Cartography can just be stored forever until maps need decoding, then stored again. The solution to both simplify the process and keep Cartography as an active part of the Treasure Hunter Skill Template would be for the Cartography skill to give the increased dig radius. This makes sense, as having the map knowledge at the dig site should make it easier to locate the treasure spot.
  

How about, making Cartography a Skill that can go over 100 Skill and up to 120 Skill points and the "Dig Radius" be determined then by the Cartography skill with, of course, being a 120 Legendary cartographer make it able to dig the Chest up within a radius of, say, 10 tiles or so ?

And the Powerscrolls for Cartography, would, of course, come from the Treasure chests being digged up ! Perhaps, well hidden in an inside pouch (a secret compartment within the Treasure Chest ?) that would require Detect Hidden to be uncovered, Remove Trap to be cleared of dangerous trapping protection, and of Lockpicking to be opened "clean" because using telekinesis on this hidden pouch would destroy its contents and make it therefore pointless to want to open the secret, hidden inside pouch with the telekinesis spell ?

Dramora

Okami said:

• With new loot being added and reviewed, it's time to penalize the "Telekinesis" Loophole on opening chests. I'm not saying don't make it work at all, but much like a Lockpicking Failure will result in broken loot, have a trap detonation also do so. Make the top tier loot require the rogue set (Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Lockpicking) for picking the chest as a result.
  

Templates are already tight. Requiring Detect Hidden and Remove Trap would mean we would either have to recall home to stone back on fighting skills after disarming the chest, or force t-maps to require a group to do. It would be very difficult to kill the high level spawn solo.

Not everyone likes playing in groups all the time. I have always been a solo t-hunter. It's one of my most favorite things to do in game.

I'm definitely not a fan of this idea!

Yorick

As I like to fill sbods with the footwear I fish up, I would like to catch exceptional footwear  items also.

Dizzy

TimSt said:

Let a legendary mage unlock all levels of chests with the unlock spell so we do not need to recall home and use a soul stone to swap in 100 lockpicking.

No to this.

Dizzy

The "gas hissing" destruction of loot is annoying.  Please remove it.

I'm ok with the grubber, he makes things interesting.  But just destroying loot without a reasonable way to avoid the destruction is just mean.

Uriah_Heep

Dramora said:

Okami said:

• With new loot being added and reviewed, it's time to penalize the "Telekinesis" Loophole on opening chests. I'm not saying don't make it work at all, but much like a Lockpicking Failure will result in broken loot, have a trap detonation also do so. Make the top tier loot require the rogue set (Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Lockpicking) for picking the chest as a result.
  

Templates are already tight. Requiring Detect Hidden and Remove Trap would mean we would either have to recall home to stone back on fighting skills after disarming the chest, or force t-maps to require a group to do. It would be very difficult to kill the high level spawn solo.

Not everyone likes playing in groups all the time. I have always been a solo t-hunter. It's one of my most favorite things to do in game.

I'm definitely not a fan of this idea!

This. Most definitely this!  Like I have said, not everyone plays on Atlantic and has a 'posse' at their beck and call...

I can already tell, the loot is gonna get bumped, but the overall experience is gonna end up a disaster.  I'm already sorry I was part of the clamor for better...

jaytin

Many people have spent time and energy making a t-hunt template that works for them, it's generally a solo pass-time and that's how it should be. SOS and T-hunts are what I enjoy most and they are the only reason I'm still here content-wise, please don't make changes that require extra skills, soul-stones or groups, some of us actually like having something we can do alone with a dedicated template. 

Uriah_Heep

jaytin said:

Many people have spent time and energy making a t-hunt template that works for them, it's generally a solo pass-time and that's how it should be. SOS and T-hunts are what I enjoy most and they are the only reason I'm still here content-wise, please don't make changes that require extra skills, soul-stones or groups, some of us actually like having something we can do alone with a dedicated template. 

Amen.

I find it somewhat sad, that no matter what shard im visiting, even atlantic, it isnt uncommon to see general chat pleading for people to come for a focus....for 10-15 mins sometimes.  And yet people think we can put together a group with all the old semi-dead skills to do a tmap.  *shakes head*

If adding more skills and grind is what is involved, just leave em alone

Didn't intend for a complete system overhaul, just wanted a bump to the loot enough to get something usable out of it.  

But I must say, letting Carto determine dig radius makes sense- then we can put mining back on with the smith/tinker where it makes more sense

LilyGrace

Okami said:

• "...The solution to both simplify the process and keep Cartography as an active part of the Treasure Hunter Skill Template would be for the Cartography skill to give the increased dig radius..."                                                                                                                                                                             Nice stuff in your post, Okami! I think changing the skill check here is a great idea. Personally I'd like to see mining go away and, as you say, have Cartography help hone in on the exact digging spot. Perhaps "You're getting warmer/colder" type prompts can pop up. One for when you're inside the 4x4 radius. Another for 3x3. Inside 2x2 the chest pops.
• 
  
• "...Perhaps have some items be stealable from the chests. This would make the "Thief" archetype an interesting run, Hide/Stealth/Lockpick/Detect Hidden/Remove Trap/Stealing, with a splash on a skill to shore up a hole..."                                                                                                                                          I love the idea that the Stealing skill play a valuable part with our TH characters. Give us a reason to use Smuggler's Edge by giving us a chance to steal rares from the monsters that spawn with the chest. Drop mining pick up stealing!  I see room for a craftable in here as well. I know the Smuggler's Edge daggers are sold at the store, but I think it would be nice for crafters to be able to create something that helps the Treasure Hunter.
  
• 
  
• "It's probably shooting way too far, but with the focus on chests, it might be a window to add some more use to the Remove Trap skill. There's already quests that allow people with Remove Trap to place traps, so perhaps some new Tinker Recipes for placeable traps that run off the Remove Trap skill. (I'd say rename it to "Trapping" and have it be for disarming and arming traps, but I feel like that is just way too much a hassle and likely to break things."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I also like your idea that additional rogue skills play a part in loot plundered from the High Seas Adventures and Treasure Hunting! That's what I'm thinking when talking about finding a chest inside a chest. Let the chest you may find inside the main chest be something you're excited to bring home and open with another specialized rogue that needs to remove the trap. Or perhaps you need a magic user to remove a curse from the chest before it can be opened. An unopened treasure chest that might offer a great prize could also be a great item to sell on your vendors.                                                                                                                                         Besides the fun factor of bringing home treasure that still offers another surprise, I'd like to be able to still fight with my rogue while treasure hunting. I don't see being able to do that very well I have to cram all the rogue skills on my digger.
  

Okami

I should clarify a detail:

I do not feel Treasure Hunters without Remove Trap should get less reward than they already get with the telekinetic use. I just feel Treasure Hunters that do invest the extra 200 skill points should get a greater reward. This is most suitably done by items that do not survive detonated traps.

I don't want anything changed for the existing T-Hunter process, I just think those that invest in the extra "treasure chest" skills should be suitably rewarded.

Calavera

My 2 cents....

1. Minor Artifacts - currently useless. I just throw them away for turn in points. However, if recipes were added as t-map loot (similar to the doom ones) that could be used with minor artifacts to create better versions, that would be awesome!

2. Detect Hidden - Implement an optional Detect Hidden active skill check on an emptied t-chest. At 50 DH you have a 20 % chance to reveal a false bottom, and at 100 DH you have a 100 % chance to find additional treasure (Lvl 7 t-map / guaranteed Legendary item / etc). If the initial attempt is unsuccessful the chest is destroyed.

3. Remove Trap - Once a t-chest is unlocked, the player can OPTIONALLY use remove trap on it. If all three traps are removed this way (devs will need to improve the Remove Trap success table) then the chest loot gets a 20% - 40% (random) bump in intensity (similar to having high luck). This bump can stack with the luck bonus.

4. Item Identification - Lvl 5 through Lvl 7 chests now ALL spawn with at least one 'Unidentifiable Relic' item with no stats. Players successfully using an Item Identification check on the relic will cause the graphic and stats of the item to revert to its normal type. Possible items range from pieces of rare armor sets (Marksman, Paladin, etc), Champ Spawn artifacts (Leaf cloak, etc), to even turn-in items from the annual Halloween events (the actual items can be rotated through the year). Relics can be taken home and identified independent of looting the chest.

5. Stealing - Lvl 5 through Lvl 7 chests may also contain a Forgotten Note from Slim the Fence. Taking it to Slim will prompt the player to steal an item from a store in a Fel town (herbs, ingots, wire, etc). When the item is marked as a quest item and returned to Slim, the player receives a reward. NOTE: Stealing target item does not spawn until the Note is given to Slim to prevent players from stealing it at server up. Possible rewards include a Legendary item, a 105 powerscroll, or Abyss imbue ingredients from the Cavern of the Discarded.

6. Chest Guardians - for Lvl 6 and Lvl 7 maps, change the chest guardian table so that there is a 10% chance to spawn a 'Dire' beast instead of the normal guardian. Dire versions have 20% stats (str, dex, int, hp, mana, stam) as well as 10% higher resists. 'Dire' beasts may spawn IN THE FORM OF ANY TAMEABLE PET and when this happens they can be tamed as well. So 1 in 10 lvl 7 chests may spawn a tameable 'Dire' version of a pet, and then a percentage table determines what that pet is. Maybe 5% it is a Cu Sidhe. MAYBE 1% OF THE TIME IT IS A BANE DRAGON!

7. Halve the number of items in all chests, but double the intensity.

8. Halve the number of stacks of reagents, but add the same number of stacks of gems.

9. Add a message to the opening of the chest that reveals how much luck affected the loot, such as "Opening the chest you realize today is an especially fortunate / auspicious / lucky / etc day!" where 'fortunate / auspicious / lucky / etc' corresponds to luck ranges.

@Kyronix @Bleak @Mesanna @all of you awesome players, Thanks for reading folks!

Dizzy

I was looking forward to the treasure map revamp, but now I'm anxious.

Treasure hunting is my favorite pastime and I do it solo.  I've done thousands of maps.  Not sure what I'd do if I lost that ability.

Aerodice

As a treasure hunter:

This is both a solo and group activity, so there should be a balance between difficulty/loot of running it solo VS running higher levels as a group. Treasure chests from levels 1 - 6 should be something that can be done solo. Anything higher could involve a group, but the rewards would need to reflect the increase in difficulty and the necessity of needing additional players. 

I liked the idea of using the cartography skill to determine the radius you can dig for the chest instead of mining. This gives an additional bonus to the skill outside of needing it for digging up maps. 1 additional tile for every 20/25 skill points for example. 

I also liked the idea of bringing the thief into play as a different way to treasure hunt:

- a treasure hunter would find a chest, kill the guardians and claim their loot as a reward. Templates would revolve around using cartography on maps and skills for killing the guardians in order to claim the chest goods as the reward.

- a thief would attempt to steal/disarm the chest without setting off any traps or disturbing the chest guardians. Templates would revolve around detecting hidden/tracking, remove trap/lockpicking, and stealing goods from the chests. Something similar to how the hidden chests were done for the Khaldun Halloween event, but with more risk and reward. Clues to where pirates hid their chests could be obtained by eavesdropping pirates or other rogues in pubs or ships while the player is hidden/stealthed or using tracking. 

My wish list for classic client would be to have the grid system for looting the chest, similar to how this is done in the enhanced client. Right now, enhanced client has the advantage over classic because you don't need to drag stuff in the chest in order to see what's under it.

Loot wise, treasure chests in general need consumables and other items that are unique to treasure hunting that will provide incentive to keep doing them. Some ideas: 

Standard Loot:
- Reagents from all spell classes
- Stacks of normal gemstones
- Stacks of imbuing ingredients from all pools (not just essences)
- Scrolls from all systems (including spellweaving)
- Magical weapons/armor, intensity and chance related to level of chest and player luck. Should be a guaranteed legendary for higher maps

Uncommon Loot:
- Keep all the existing uncommon loot (mibs, treasure maps, alacrity scrolls, etc)
- Chance at a scroll of transcendence. Higher skill points for Felucca maps. Chest level and luck would affect drop rate
- Talismans with new protection/killer attributes that are not currently available. Talismans with unique activated bonuses.
- Peerless reagents. Mostly the 6 types but with a chance of getting peerless specific drops such as dread horn mane or grizzled bones. 
- Pieces of armor sets, including some new ones
- Recipes. Rare chance to get gauntlet/Eodon recipes (or have Eodon recipes have a chance of appearing in treasure chests found in Eodon).
- Chance at an artifact from other systems (gauntlet, despise, covetous, etc) or guaranteed drop for higher level chests (if these require a group to complete). This would mostly depend on how rare it would be to find a high level map as well as the difficulty involved with completing the chests.
- Scrolls or special recipes that would allow you to upgrade artifacts into a higher tier as somebody else suggested (similar to how gauntlet artifacts have an upgrade recipe to turn midnight bracers into cuffs of the archmage). This would help breathe new life into older artifacts, such as the wildfire bow or windsong bow.
- Provided it will not cause backlash in the community, chests (as well as MIBS) could carry a rare chance of receiving unique rubble. The chance would increase based on the difficulty of the chest and player luck.
- In a similar concept to the cavern of the discarded, some trashed items could end up in the treasure chests. Sometimes junk, sometimes treasure depending on the usefulness to the individual. 
- Tasty treats, irresistible tasty treats, vial of armor essence. These should also stack
- Other useful consumables, such as the ones obtained via monster stealing
 

Lieutenant_Dan

I would like to see an ultra rare deco/vanity type item added with a very low drop rate of 1 in 25000 or so
.  
So rare in fact that getting one would be in line with a slims shadow veil or a blaze cu.

Of course the artwork would have to be so impressive that it would be highly valued not just for the rarity,  but also for it's appeal and aesthetics when displayed. 

Coffins are cool but the spawn rate was way too frequent.

Lieutenant_Dan

Right now we have refinements from t-maps that allow us to overcap our Defense Chance Increase or Resists.

Can you add a new refinement that allows us to overcap our Hit Chance Increase?

This would go a long way in balancing the PvP woes that dexxers are facing.
Current situations involves warrior type templates capped at 45 HCI that are trying to compete with mage type templates with overcapped DCI of up to 70.

Kyronix

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

Couple of things I'd like to mention as we continue the conversation, also disclaimer that none of this is set in stone so if things change down the line - take nothing I say here as firm!

From a user experience point of view, it's clear there is a discrepancy between doing T-maps in the CC vs the EC.  Trying to provide some balance for CC users is something we would have to further investigate to find what solutions we can offer within the context of that client. 

The "blocking the chest" issue is certainly annoying, and something I had a chance to try and dig into when we did the Elemental Titan arc - cleaning up the chest digging process is high on the list.  

As for skills - I'm not keen to start consolidating skills or forcing redevelopment of T-Hunter templates.  Using telekinesis to set of traps has been something that's been done forever - changing that in favor of forcing remove trap isn't likely going to be met with open arms.  That being said providing some extra reward for investing in that skill is more along the lines of how we could address telekinesis.  Someone mentioned secret compartments with special rewards that would get "destroyed" by telekinetic powers - that could work.  I'm not a fan of allowing mages to unlock higher level chests.  Allowing lock picks to craft a lock pick set to allow others to though? That would be a better solution I think.

Someone mentioned swapping mining out in favor of cartography for finding the chest - would have to investigate but it's an interesting idea.

I think we have a situation where some folks like to do treasure maps solo, while others enjoy doing them as a group.  The goal is to preserve this.  It was mentioned here that treasure maps 1-6 should be solo activities while 7+ should be group activities.  I agree with the premise, but that leads me to my next point...

We have too many levels of treasure maps with not enough ability to vary what's inside between each level - sure we can bump intensity and add specialty items, but ultimately we are pretty hamstrung.  I think a situation where we have 5 overall levels of maps would streamline things a bit.  Say 1-3 are solo activities, with 4 and 5 lending themselves to more of a group activity.  Where the current lineup of maps would fall into this new scheme remains TBD, but it illustrates a broader point.  Part of this is having Dread Pirates drop a more flavorful map experience that I teased in my first post.  Looking forward to hearing feedback here.

As far as what's in the chests - it's pretty clear there is a preference for quality over quantity.  One way we could accomplish removing some of the clutter is keeping some of the resource based loot to the lower level chests while preserving the item/equipment based loot for higher level.  This keeps incentive on the lower end maps while keeping the higher end maps free of excess clutter.  This way you could then decide what type of loot you want and do the map accordingly.  This would of course require a balance pass for which creatures drop maps, which has been asked for as well.

As far as T-Map loot (and SoS loot as well) for items - this is complicated.  Deco, recipes, resources, gold, gems etc - that's easy.  For equipment and artifacts it's another story.  We are in a really tough spot when it comes to artifacts, whether they be randomly generated or pre-made.  We constantly run into a situation where the majority of the player base is incredibly well equipped.  This leads to encounters having to balance for the increase player power.  Rinse and repeat, and we get the debilitating power creep we have today.  When it comes to artifacts, unless something has 100% mana leech, a swing speed that can drop down to 1.25 with maxed stamina, and AI it's pretty much "crap".  The same premise applies to a handful of desirable properties for most all templates.  Of course this is a multi-faceted problem that is the result of nearly two decades worth of itemization, but it's arguably the biggest hurdle with keeping player engagement high.  We aren't keen to open the flood gates and start loading treasure chests with clean legendaries but we also recognize that opening a chest to "crap" isn't fun either.  

This is part of a much larger conversation on how to rebalance crafted items vs randomly generated loot vs pre-made artifacts - but in this context it is relevant so I wanted to bring it up.

So at this point - what does that mean for equipment in T-Maps & MiBs?  Well at this point we aren't trying to do a complete redesign of the entire itemization, so don't expect anything too groundbreaking.  We should, however, at least be able to sweeten the chest.

As for SoS chests - adding more deco to the pre-fish is an easy thing to do.  I've got over 100 SCUBA dives on shipwrecks IRL, so I'm sitting on a laundry list of stuff to fish up from the deep.  As for the stuff in the chest, I don't think SoS chests compare really to T-maps in terms of the difficulty of the encounter.  Beyond the acquisition of the MIB itself, getting the chest is pretty easy.  In order to bump the loot in the SoS chest to be on par with treasure chests the encounters would have to bump to compensate - something I don't think many fishers (including myself) are keen on.  Will have to think about some novel ways to make naval treasure more interesting.

I think that's it for now - look forward to your comments!

Pawain

Thanks for listening again!!!

I like fewer map levels.

The thing that would fix the difference between CC and EC for T Maps is Davey Jones Locker.  If the Coords given would be within 4 tiles of the chest the CC would be just fine.

The SoS Coords work every time for me in CC when I use the locker.

I also would like Carto to replace Mining in T Hunting.

Dont forget to keep the pets spawning.  Can you change Dragon Wolfs to get all the magics?

More quality in chests sounds great.  

Looking forward to a modification to crafted items.

Sweeter Chests sound good to me!

Good Luck on getting your deco ideas into the game!  We could find something that fell from the sky.That would fit our EM Lore on LS.

popps

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

".....while 7+ should be group activities...."

Thank you got the good points and for listening to players' feedback !!

If possible, I'd just like a comment on that "7+" you wrote there....

Since I am not aware of a Level 8 Treasure Map, is that a hint that with the current ongoing High Seas Update Development we might be getting Treasure Maps "beyond" the current "max" Level 7 ?

Thanks !

Tim

As someone else said here is my 2 cents.

I'm not sure about replacing Mining with Cartography. Maybe a better way would be you need Carto to read map even after deciphering it? Or reducing the range for Mining and making it up with Carto. so 100 of both would match what you get with 100 mining?

If we only had to think about EC I would say 100 Cartography should give you the mark on you map like the SOSs do now but I gather that won't work on CC.

As for the loot I think the weapon/armor power level doesn't need to be changed but I would like to see the number of items reduced. Maybe drop the number of items and rase the bottom end of the RNG range?
 
Adding rare items, ingredients, and recipes sound great as long as they are rare. A 1 in 10,000 chance of a power scroll or a Hawkwind's Robe would add a lot of spice to the hunt without upsetting anyone unduly. On the other hand I don't think any loot of this type should be guaranteed no mater what level the map is.

I don't think you should be thinking about this level map is for solo that for groups. Just make the next level a reasonable amount harder than the last. Leave it to the players to decide what they can do by them selves and what they need help with. Unless you're thinking of preventing the digger from leaving the aria (maybe something to think about) he/she will just pop home switch to a full combat character and come back. So to grantee they need a group you would need a real big jump from a solo map to the group maps. The present system works even on low population shards. A level 7 can be done even if you are the only person on the shard. It's not some thing to be considered lightly but you can chose to try.

As others have said thanks for listening 

Merus

Kyronix said:

Thanks everyone for the great feedback so far!

Couple of things I'd like to mention as we continue the conversation, also disclaimer that none of this is set in stone so if things change down the line - take nothing I say here as firm!

From a user experience point of view, it's clear there is a discrepancy between doing T-maps in the CC vs the EC.  Trying to provide some balance for CC users is something we would have to further investigate to find what solutions we can offer within the context of that client. 

The "blocking the chest" issue is certainly annoying, and something I had a chance to try and dig into when we did the Elemental Titan arc - cleaning up the chest digging process is high on the list.  

As for skills - I'm not keen to start consolidating skills or forcing redevelopment of T-Hunter templates.  Using telekinesis to set of traps has been something that's been done forever - changing that in favor of forcing remove trap isn't likely going to be met with open arms.  That being said providing some extra reward for investing in that skill is more along the lines of how we could address telekinesis.  Someone mentioned secret compartments with special rewards that would get "destroyed" by telekinetic powers - that could work.  I'm not a fan of allowing mages to unlock higher level chests.  Allowing lock picks to craft a lock pick set to allow others to though? That would be a better solution I think.

Someone mentioned swapping mining out in favor of cartography for finding the chest - would have to investigate but it's an interesting idea.

I think we have a situation where some folks like to do treasure maps solo, while others enjoy doing them as a group.  The goal is to preserve this.  It was mentioned here that treasure maps 1-6 should be solo activities while 7+ should be group activities.  I agree with the premise, but that leads me to my next point...

We have too many levels of treasure maps with not enough ability to vary what's inside between each level - sure we can bump intensity and add specialty items, but ultimately we are pretty hamstrung.  I think a situation where we have 5 overall levels of maps would streamline things a bit.  Say 1-3 are solo activities, with 4 and 5 lending themselves to more of a group activity.  Where the current lineup of maps would fall into this new scheme remains TBD, but it illustrates a broader point.  Part of this is having Dread Pirates drop a more flavorful map experience that I teased in my first post.  Looking forward to hearing feedback here.

As far as what's in the chests - it's pretty clear there is a preference for quality over quantity.  One way we could accomplish removing some of the clutter is keeping some of the resource based loot to the lower level chests while preserving the item/equipment based loot for higher level.  This keeps incentive on the lower end maps while keeping the higher end maps free of excess clutter.  This way you could then decide what type of loot you want and do the map accordingly.  This would of course require a balance pass for which creatures drop maps, which has been asked for as well.

As far as T-Map loot (and SoS loot as well) for items - this is complicated.  Deco, recipes, resources, gold, gems etc - that's easy.  For equipment and artifacts it's another story.  We are in a really tough spot when it comes to artifacts, whether they be randomly generated or pre-made.  We constantly run into a situation where the majority of the player base is incredibly well equipped.  This leads to encounters having to balance for the increase player power.  Rinse and repeat, and we get the debilitating power creep we have today.  When it comes to artifacts, unless something has 100% mana leech, a swing speed that can drop down to 1.25 with maxed stamina, and AI it's pretty much "crap".  The same premise applies to a handful of desirable properties for most all templates.  Of course this is a multi-faceted problem that is the result of nearly two decades worth of itemization, but it's arguably the biggest hurdle with keeping player engagement high.  We aren't keen to open the flood gates and start loading treasure chests with clean legendaries but we also recognize that opening a chest to "crap" isn't fun either.  

This is part of a much larger conversation on how to rebalance crafted items vs randomly generated loot vs pre-made artifacts - but in this context it is relevant so I wanted to bring it up.

So at this point - what does that mean for equipment in T-Maps & MiBs?  Well at this point we aren't trying to do a complete redesign of the entire itemization, so don't expect anything too groundbreaking.  We should, however, at least be able to sweeten the chest.

As for SoS chests - adding more deco to the pre-fish is an easy thing to do.  I've got over 100 SCUBA dives on shipwrecks IRL, so I'm sitting on a laundry list of stuff to fish up from the deep.  As for the stuff in the chest, I don't think SoS chests compare really to T-maps in terms of the difficulty of the encounter.  Beyond the acquisition of the MIB itself, getting the chest is pretty easy.  In order to bump the loot in the SoS chest to be on par with treasure chests the encounters would have to bump to compensate - something I don't think many fishers (including myself) are keen on.  Will have to think about some novel ways to make naval treasure more interesting.

I think that's it for now - look forward to your comments!

Glad to hear that there is some work going into the mechanics (client/digging) of treasure maps.

Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8.

As far as loot, I know not everyone agrees, but I think the premise of some items really only being available in certain places is still ok for Ultima.  I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game.  I think the highest level maps should have a chance at dropping comparable loot to some of the highest level encounters IF the guardians difficulty warrants it.  IMO, killing a few frost dragons does not.  I would like to see a level of map where the guardians DO warrant that kind of loot in the chest.  That said... I would like to see a small chance at something unique and desirable for T-map loot.  My idea was for a small chance (like maybe the rarity of a white Cu) to spawn one of the legacy tamable creatures from UOs past.  A bane dragon, a dreadmare, a silver steed, etc.  Just an idea, but I think it illustrates the idea that it is does not have to be armor but would perhaps be more valuable in todays UO economy than a alacrity scroll or a forged pardon.

While I know there is some focus right now on High Seas content, please do not limit the availability of the new highest level map (perhaps what you refer to as a Dread Pirate Map) to just high seas content.  Sure it can be added there, but please consider adding them to other high level content as well... perhaps a way to make the somewhat lackluster ML Peerless bosses interesting again would be if they had a chance to drop them.  Same for the two boss encounters in Eodon, Doom in Malas, Slasher/Medussa/Stygian in the Abyss... 


Lastly, I realize that a lot of content in UO is or can be done solo.  That's fine.  People are soloing the roof with multiple accounts.  I am fine with it.  Please make the highest level maps hard enough that a group could do them and have fun.  Multiple peerless level guardians would be appropriate I think.  Some players will still likely run multiple accounts and solo the maps.  But others will gather a group to do them.  I remember the days when a level 5 map was a guild activity.  It would be nice for there to be an option for a group of players to do maps together and it not be a waste of time.  To that end, and to revisit point number 1, please consider a way for there to be instanced loot for a group in T-hunts.

Tanager

The aquarium fish have some lovely artwork that I feel is rarely appreciated. This is a small sample of some of them, and is great (not-dying versions) deco loot I would love to see added to SOS. Or, even better, add an item to SOS that allows aquarium fish to be preserved without fishbowl so that we can use them outside of the aquarium. You cannot see them inside the fishbowl. This would have a side effect of boosting the Aquarium hobby (High Seas theme related!) That is prolly outside the scope of this update, but adding the static deco seems doable.

popps

Merus said:

Glad to hear that there is some work going into the mechanics (client/digging) of treasure maps.

Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8.

As far as loot, I know not everyone agrees, but I think the premise of some items really only being available in certain places is still ok for Ultima.  I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game.  I think the highest level maps should have a chance at dropping comparable loot to some of the highest level encounters IF the guardians difficulty warrants it.  IMO, killing a few frost dragons does not.  I would like to see a level of map where the guardians DO warrant that kind of loot in the chest.  That said... I would like to see a small chance at something unique and desirable for T-map loot.  My idea was for a small chance (like maybe the rarity of a white Cu) to spawn one of the legacy tamable creatures from UOs past.  A bane dragon, a dreadmare, a silver steed, etc.  Just an idea, but I think it illustrates the idea that it is does not have to be armor but would perhaps be more valuable in todays UO economy than a alacrity scroll or a forged pardon.

While I know there is some focus right now on High Seas content, please do not limit the availability of the new highest level map (perhaps what you refer to as a Dread Pirate Map) to just high seas content.  Sure it can be added there, but please consider adding them to other high level content as well... perhaps a way to make the somewhat lackluster ML Peerless bosses interesting again would be if they had a chance to drop them.  Same for the two boss encounters in Eodon, Doom in Malas, Slasher/Medussa/Stygian in the Abyss... 


Lastly, I realize that a lot of content in UO is or can be done solo.  That's fine.  People are soloing the roof with multiple accounts.  I am fine with it.  Please make the highest level maps hard enough that a group could do them and have fun.  Multiple peerless level guardians would be appropriate I think.  Some players will still likely run multiple accounts and solo the maps.  But others will gather a group to do them.  I remember the days when a level 5 map was a guild activity.  It would be nice for there to be an option for a group of players to do maps together and it not be a waste of time.  To that end, and to revisit point number 1, please consider a way for there to be instanced loot for a group in T-hunts.

"Liked the idea of rebalancing map levels into a small set.  1-5 definitely sounds better than 1-8."

Did I miss anything ? Are there Treasure Maps of Level 8 currently available ?
I thought that Level 7 was currently the highest level T-Map...

" I don't think T-maps need to have the best armor or weapon drops in the game."

I think differently....

Let's look at it, what are "actually" Treasure Maps or MIBs/SoSes ?

They are, to my viewing, treasure troves that someone, in the past, hid in some location with their goodies, rares, niceties and drew a Map to find it back....

So, what the player is digging or fishing up is the treasure of someone else and this means that, according to the wealth and belongings of that someone else who hid it (or lost it at sea), the chest can very well contain the best armor or weapons that drop in the game.....

I mean, why would someone hide "junk" ? A Treasure, usually, is made out of "good" stuff, VERY good and valuable stuff not really of useless stuff..... right ?