Voting fraud in castle contest.

Merus

Captain_Lucky said:

Merus said:

Broadsword has employees other than those who work on UO.  If it were me in charge (and barring just making it custom on production) I would have the designs built per the theme on test.  Once it was time for the judging I would copy test, remove all player names from the house sign and have 3 or 4 other broadsword employees judge the designs based on the contest theme.

Sample themes could be:
Japanese Temple
European Fortress
Renaissance Chateau

Sure the person in the office across the hall you see 100 times a day is going to be impartial lol. Or just end this clear failure and give us plots. I appreciate your way of thinking on this but your trying to fix something horribly broken and there simply isn't a fix for the way things are done currently. This issue grinds me every time I log into the game. At least half the subs in this game are for housing and they are shooting themselves in the foot with this. Maybe it's just me but it seems like building resentment in the player base is probably not the best idea.

I don’t disagree that just giving the players the custom plot option, even with some of the more hideous tiles removed, would be the best solution to making people happy.

However, if we are going to be stuck with the contest, we should get something that actually resembles a “design” contest not this popularity contest farce.  IMO a DAOC developer with no access to player names is far more likely to pick the designs that they like best based on how well the actual design matches the theme.  Not perfect, but would be a drastic improvement on what we have now if you asked me.

Captain_Lucky

Merus said:

Captain_Lucky said:

Merus said:

Broadsword has employees other than those who work on UO.  If it were me in charge (and barring just making it custom on production) I would have the designs built per the theme on test.  Once it was time for the judging I would copy test, remove all player names from the house sign and have 3 or 4 other broadsword employees judge the designs based on the contest theme.

Sample themes could be:
Japanese Temple
European Fortress
Renaissance Chateau

Sure the person in the office across the hall you see 100 times a day is going to be impartial lol. Or just end this clear failure and give us plots. I appreciate your way of thinking on this but your trying to fix something horribly broken and there simply isn't a fix for the way things are done currently. This issue grinds me every time I log into the game. At least half the subs in this game are for housing and they are shooting themselves in the foot with this. Maybe it's just me but it seems like building resentment in the player base is probably not the best idea.

I don’t disagree that just giving the players the custom plot option, even with some of the more hideous tiles removed, would be the best solution to making people happy.

However, if we are going to be stuck with the contest, we should get something that actually resembles a “design” contest not this popularity contest farce.  IMO a DAOC developer with no access to player names is far more likely to pick the designs that they like best based on how well the actual design matches the theme.  Not perfect, but would be a drastic improvement on what we have now if you asked me.

Well it wouldn't be any worse. You got me there lol

AmberWitch

I hate the idea of losing faith in the system but until we start voting on design and not the designer we're going to keep seeing this same thing over and over. 
I would love to see some of the contests have voting members that are just the dev team. I know this will raise the hair of some but my opinion is that this may allow some of the more creative designs to have a chance.

Bilbo

You can not have people that work at BS pick the design because all it will turn into is people bitching at BS for picking shitty designs.

Bilbo

Sarah said:

People spent a lot of their time designing these castles. I do not believe there is Fraud. The flaw is that one person designs it and he gets 150 of his friends to vote on it without looking. It is not Mesanna or the Dev's fault. It is the fault of the people, the guilds that do not vote for functionality or flow, they vote for friends. I like that Tim and Ezekiel at least told what they want in a castle instead of just complaining. I have entered every time and come in the finals every time but never won. I will try again with those suggestions in mind. Only thing I do not like about the winner designs is that they are all Block and nothing pretty. Some like all block but some of us want a pretty design. I know some like open, but some cannot make all those walls themselves and want rooms. I am sure there is some reason Mesanna did not make a castle plot designable. I have to agree that would be fun.

AMEN  Just like in the real world when we vote for stuff.

Sliss

UO is a sandbox. People, all of them, not just the contest winners, should be allowed to go wild with the design of their house. 
Devs frequently struggle with releasing content that players don't blow through in 2 days. Yet here's a possibility to occupy players for months with minimal dev effort, and yet again nope, we can't have that.
Mesanna's irrational fear of Borg cubes is not only inappropriate in a sandbox, but should be more than offset by the creations that will appear if players are given the freedom.

Bilbo

Sliss said:

UO is a sandbox. People, all of them, not just the contest winners, should be allowed to go wild with the design of their house. 
Devs frequently struggle with releasing content that players don't blow through in 2 days. Yet here's a possibility to occupy players for months with minimal dev effort, and yet again nope, we can't have that.
Mesanna's irrational fear of Borg cubes is not only inappropriate in a sandbox, but should be more than offset by the creations that will appear if players are given the freedom.

I am not sure if it is Mesanna's fear of the BORG cube or if it is more to the fact that a lot of the player base has said a lot about UO having cubes esp those blue tile cubes you see a lot in UO.  Alls I really want is a Caslte/Keep with no interior walls/stairs and all 4 floors the same, they could even keep the same outside walls/design.  While cubes may not look as nice as some of the designs they are way more efficient and gives you max usage of the space.  Sorry I forgot that yes UO is a sandbox and I would love to be able to custom the inside of my Castle.

Tim

To boil this tread down to two sentences

Democracy Sucks. The fools won't vote the way I think they should.

I do think it's a good sign that most of the posters are suggesting alternatives but I still think the present system is the best of a lot of bad choices. 

PS If we went with this idea of themes for each contest But who gets to decide if an entry conforms with the theme?

Bilbo

@Tim loved your post %10000000000000000 fact

Sliss

Bilbo said:

I am not sure if it is Mesanna's fear of the BORG cube or if it is more to the fact that a lot of the player base has said a lot about UO having cubes esp those blue tile cubes you see a lot in UO.  

She stated multiple times that she does not want customizable castles because of borg cubes. It's not a theory.

Merus

Tim said:

PS If we went with this idea of themes for each contest But who gets to decide if an entry conforms with the theme?

In my suggestion the independent judges would based on their concept of what that theme might look like.

Without independent judges I think the Devs would have to cull the list prior to the voting otherwise the theme would have no significance... we would be right back to the popularity of the designer, not the design.

Bilbo

Sliss said:

Bilbo said:

I am not sure if it is Mesanna's fear of the BORG cube or if it is more to the fact that a lot of the player base has said a lot about UO having cubes esp those blue tile cubes you see a lot in UO.  

She stated multiple times that she does not want customizable castles because of borg cubes. It's not a theory.

THUMBS UP

Mervyn

Resistance is futile. 

Captain_Lucky

Sliss said:

Bilbo said:

I am not sure if it is Mesanna's fear of the BORG cube or if it is more to the fact that a lot of the player base has said a lot about UO having cubes esp those blue tile cubes you see a lot in UO.  

She stated multiple times that she does not want customizable castles because of borg cubes. It's not a theory.

So instead of us upsetting one person, the one person has decided to upset all of the player base. Well that sounds valid!

Bilbo

Mervyn said:

Resistance is futile. 

Who the hell would want to resist that.  At my age I go out with a smile.

Smoot

no in game vote in the history of UO has ever been fair.  i dont know why anyone would expect this last one to be different.

the devs should have just picked the houses.  or formed an un-biased focus group of players to choose.

next round im going to make an empty plot and make it win just for hell of it (i did not enter this or any other previous castle contest)

Victim_Of_Siege

Smoot said:

"or formed an un-biased focus group of players to choose."

Those don't exist.  

FinleyGrant

Smoot said:

no in game vote in the history of UO has ever been fair.  i dont know why anyone would expect this last one to be different.

the devs should have just picked the houses.  or formed an un-biased focus group of players to choose.

next round im going to make an empty plot and make it win just for hell of it (i did not enter this or any other previous castle contest)

Won't work. They will not allow a plot...  

This whole Desaster is again missed opportunity (no pun intended on the rover...) to plainly print money.

As already stated. People would pay either 100dreds of millions = gold sink or 100 and more cash to get their custom plot.
Even on Atlantic there is so much room where mesanna could place lots of 24x24 or 31x31 plots to sell... 

Somwhere I read it would be too much for the game to handle as those custom houses are not static. Well simple solution. Sell the player a plot and then give them 2 weeks for the built then make the house static with no further changes.. People would still pay like crazy.

Its like so often. They miss out on chances to print basically money from nothing... 

JollyJade

FinleyGrant said:

Smoot said:

no in game vote in the history of UO has ever been fair.  i dont know why anyone would expect this last one to be different.

the devs should have just picked the houses.  or formed an un-biased focus group of players to choose.

next round im going to make an empty plot and make it win just for hell of it (i did not enter this or any other previous castle contest)

Won't work. They will not allow a plot...  

This whole Desaster is again missed opportunity (no pun intended on the rover...) to plainly print money.

As already stated. People would pay either 100dreds of millions = gold sink or 100 and more cash to get their custom plot.
Even on Atlantic there is so much room where mesanna could place lots of 24x24 or 31x31 plots to sell... 

Somwhere I read it would be too much for the game to handle as those custom houses are not static. Well simple solution. Sell the player a plot and then give them 2 weeks for the built then make the house static with no further changes.. People would still pay like crazy.

Its like so often. They miss out on chances to print basically money from nothing... 

Bonnie will rather let the game die before earning a single penny more than EA expects.

Ivenor

JollyJade said:

FinleyGrant said:

Smoot said:

no in game vote in the history of UO has ever been fair.  i dont know why anyone would expect this last one to be different.

the devs should have just picked the houses.  or formed an un-biased focus group of players to choose.

next round im going to make an empty plot and make it win just for hell of it (i did not enter this or any other previous castle contest)

Won't work. They will not allow a plot...  

This whole Desaster is again missed opportunity (no pun intended on the rover...) to plainly print money.

As already stated. People would pay either 100dreds of millions = gold sink or 100 and more cash to get their custom plot.
Even on Atlantic there is so much room where mesanna could place lots of 24x24 or 31x31 plots to sell... 

Somwhere I read it would be too much for the game to handle as those custom houses are not static. Well simple solution. Sell the player a plot and then give them 2 weeks for the built then make the house static with no further changes.. People would still pay like crazy.

Its like so often. They miss out on chances to print basically money from nothing... 

Bonnie will rather let the game die before earning a single penny more than EA expects.

And why is that?

Not a provocative question, I'm really curious...

LilyGrace

I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds. 

Clearly there are a goodly number of players who love to build, rebuilt and edit their customizable house plots. For me, it's been one of the best bits of the game ever since customizable plots came along. Before that, decorating classic home designs was, for many, one of the best bits. Even if you had to go out and die repeatedly, storing up ghost robes to jack up items in your house.

I thought the contest was great fun! Now I'm sad I missed the other contests. The popularity contest, or large guild factor, affecting the voting, hadn't occurred to me. Then I heard it mentioned in chat. Then later saw gates opening to the voting stone, with multiple players pouring through to vote. And now, seeing some of the builds that made top the 20...well...enough said on that subject. 

My wish list on custom house plots is short:

1.  Let players have castle and keep size plots to customize.
     Make it a gold sink, costing a huge amount of in-game gold. Or let us buy it from the online
     store as a high ticket item. I don't care which.
     
     This would give players a whole year to come up with wonderful designs that
     they could later enter into a TC Design Contest! I've no doubt Borg cubes will pop up here
     and there, but I think they'd be in the minority, and the good would outweigh the bad.

2.  Still hold contests if they're popular enough to be supported by players wanting to enter.
          Select 4 winners: Gold, Silver, Bronze and Player's Choice 
               Medaled designs are chosen by Dev's and become available to other players. 
               Player's Choice gets a coveted, custom UO artwork, named and dated trophy.

          Player Votes would be applied only in the realm of Player's Choice. 
          Results of the Gold, Silver and Bronze would be a surprise to us all. 

If players don't like the Dev's choices that end up on the House Placement Tool, don't buy and place that design for yourself. We've loved all the classic designs for a long time. I trust the Dev's can pick good designs to add. And I trust players, who may or may not have stacked the deck, can be satisfied with a one of a kind trophy as the Player's Choice Award.   

Thanks for listening!

     


 

Captain_Lucky

Some great ideas here. But when someone is so invested in an illogical decision I'm not sure a logical argument is enough.

Arron

LilyGrace said:

I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds. 

Clearly there are a goodly number of players who love to build, rebuilt and edit their customizable house plots. For me, it's been one of the best bits of the game ever since customizable plots came along. Before that, decorating classic home designs was, for many, one of the best bits. Even if you had to go out and die repeatedly, storing up ghost robes to jack up items in your house.

I thought the contest was great fun! Now I'm sad I missed the other contests. The popularity contest, or large guild factor, affecting the voting, hadn't occurred to me. Then I heard it mentioned in chat. Then later saw gates opening to the voting stone, with multiple players pouring through to vote. And now, seeing some of the builds that made top the 20...well...enough said on that subject. 

My wish list on custom house plots is short:

1.  Let players have castle and keep size plots to customize.
     Make it a gold sink, costing a huge amount of in-game gold. Or let us buy it from the online
     store as a high ticket item. I don't care which.
     
     This would give players a whole year to come up with wonderful designs that
     they could later enter into a TC Design Contest! I've no doubt Borg cubes will pop up here
     and there, but I think they'd be in the minority, and the good would outweigh the bad.

2.  Still hold contests if they're popular enough to be supported by players wanting to enter.
          Select 4 winners: Gold, Silver, Bronze and Player's Choice 
               Medaled designs are chosen by Dev's and become available to other players. 
               Player's Choice gets a coveted, custom UO artwork, named and dated trophy.

          Player Votes would be applied only in the realm of Player's Choice. 
          Results of the Gold, Silver and Bronze would be a surprise to us all. 

If players don't like the Dev's choices that end up on the House Placement Tool, don't buy and place that design for yourself. We've loved all the classic designs for a long time. I trust the Dev's can pick good designs to add. And I trust players, who may or may not have stacked the deck, can be satisfied with a one of a kind trophy as the Player's Choice Award.   

Thanks for listening!

     


 

I love this idea. Maybe the powers that are in control can look into these ideas more.

TimSt

I know what a Borg cube is in Star Trek but what is it in UO? And why do people not like it?

Ivenor

TimSt said:

I know what a Borg cube is in Star Trek but what is it in UO? And why do people not like it?

It is a cubic building, without any minimal pretense of a decent look and/or of "architectural aesthetics". A warehouse to deposit items and stuff, instead of a Home, made with plain, or, worse, clashing colored materials.

Captain_Lucky

TimSt said:

I know what a Borg cube is in Star Trek but what is it in UO? And why do people not like it?

There's only one person I know of that really has an issue with it lol

Bilbo

A CUBE may not be the best looking but it is by far the most effective way to use space without inside walls or rooms.

Ivenor

Captain_Lucky said:

TimSt said:

I know what a Borg cube is in Star Trek but what is it in UO? And why do people not like it?

There's only one person I know of that really has an issue with it lol

Make it two, at least...

Sliss

Captain_Lucky said:

Sliss said:

Bilbo said:

I am not sure if it is Mesanna's fear of the BORG cube or if it is more to the fact that a lot of the player base has said a lot about UO having cubes esp those blue tile cubes you see a lot in UO.  

She stated multiple times that she does not want customizable castles because of borg cubes. It's not a theory.

So instead of us upsetting one person, the one person has decided to upset all of the player base. Well that sounds valid!

My beef with this is not even one person vs many. UO is the original sandbox. The whole point is to let people go wild. The only limits should be related to griefing and such.
To me this is similar to forbidding putting Necro and Chiv on the same template, because the combination is abominable!

Ivenor

Bilbo said:

A CUBE may not be the best looking but it is by far the most effective way to use space without inside walls or rooms.

To use it for WHAT, for BT sake?

Do someone really needs every square inches of the inside of a House to not be able to use at least a modicum of architectural aesthetics on its exterior? What are they: the UO version of a MacMansion?

OK: sandbox, at everyone its playing style, und so weiter, but, please let be honest: in 90% of cases is pure laziness.

IMO, if a wasteland of max space cubes is the future of custom housing in UO at this point the classic Houses are better: at least they have been created with some regards to their look too.

I.