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Issues with "Block War on" options

MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
edited February 2019 in Bugs
Classic Client option > Reputation System tab
Option reads "Block war on Friendly"

According to the colour options in the same tab "friendly" is defined as guild, however checking this option blocks war on innocent.

So should read "Block war on Innocent"


(this cost me 1million gold under bug bounty)
I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

Breaking in the young since 2002


Comments

  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited January 2019
    Actually i think instead, the description is correct but the action is not behaving correctly.

    We have the option "query before performing criminal actions" this in effect will block war on innocent.

    However "block war on friendly" is blocking war on both guild members and innocent players. should only block war on guild members as blocking war on innocent is covered by "query criminal.."

    Why does this matter? Well "innocent" are often the enemy in fel, and you may wish to block war on guild members but obviously you need to be able to attack "innocent" blues.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited February 2019
    This issue is also true for Enhance Client,

    "Block war on friendly" is blocking war on "innocent" even though this can already be blocked with "query before performing criminal actions" Block war on friendly should be limited to blocking war on guilded/alliance.

    However there is another related issue, (non minor) both Clients "Block war on friendly" does not block war on guilded/allianced reds/criminals (both Summons/pets and players)

    (there is a half workaround in both clients where you have the option to "block war on party" which will indeed block war on guilded/allianced reds/criminals however you cannot party summons/pets and there is a 10 person limit to party)


    @Mariah are you able to relabel this thread to "Block war on.. ISSUES" please?
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    It may help for me to clarify that there is a related problem (both clients) with “target hostile” that targets guilded/allianced reds/criminals and red/criminal pets/summons. 

    However if checking block war on friendly worked correctly, this would solve the issue with “target hostile” 


    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • IkeeluIkeelu Posts: 134
    Merv you retired brilliant bastard. I appreciate you bringing these issues to light.

    Sorry I have nothing else to contribute to this thread. 
    esdxWhere is the bank? 
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2020
    above bugs are still current


    Related issues:
    "Instructing a pet to kill an innocent target does not present the user with a gump warning that the action will flag you as a criminal when you have
    "query before performing criminal actions ticked"

    Also bypassing the
    "query before performing criminal actions check"
    is casting curse on any object in fel

    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,064
    That's why most of us are grey when we do spawns. lol 
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited September 2020
    Great Lakes meet & greet 28/9/20
    "Merus: I come tonight about an issue we have visited in this forum about a few times
    Merus: going back almost a year
    Merus: it is the issue of the classic client targeting
    Merus: the select nearest hostile is very broken
    Merus: has there been any progress on this?
    Mesanna: I have two things to comment on this
    Mesanna: it might have been reported
    Mesanna: but 80% of the time we just do not have the information to reproduce it
    Mesanna: if we can not reproduce something we can't fix it"

    Is this some kind of joke??

    @misk, if you're having difficulty reproducing anything on this thread, please let us know. All you need to do is press the "select nearest hostile" macro key...

    Please note, this issue affects EC too. 
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,064
    edited September 2020
    A good one is in Khaldun.  The 3 red guys that have bows are in a big triangle. You tell a pet to target one, the pet walks towards it and is hit by an arrow, the pet changes to that target, before he gets there another one hits him with an arrow, he walks to that one.  The pet could do this all day or until it dies. He will never get to a target.

    Can test  target nearest there also. Select nearest target and you target something 8 squares away when there are 3 mobs 1 square away.  This happens so often, how can someone not see it.  And it could be linked to the Pet AI, since toon AI is prob the same.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    Pawain, that is not a problem with select nearest hostile macro, please don't muddy the water
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • PawainPawain Posts: 10,064
    Like I said, maybe pet AI and toon AI are the same. Maybe thats what they can't see.
    Focus on what you can do, not what you can't.
  • MervynMervyn Posts: 2,208
    edited October 2020
    For classic client, I beleive both ***** and **** have an option to add a friend to prevent attacking guilded reds specifically to address this bug.
    @Mesanna by allowing such poor QA, you're actively encouraging the use of third party programs. Please address this.

    It is very disheartening to hear people tell other people they must download either this or that non approved program to fix a bug.
    names removed by Mariah - please do not name these programs, to name them is to advertise them, encouraging people to seek them out.
    I tell you the truth, tis better to do 10 damage on the right target than 100 damage on the wrong target.

    Breaking in the young since 2002


  • Max_BlackoakMax_Blackoak Posts: 648
    in EC block war on frienldy is buggy when playing red characters. It will still sometimes attack your party members (both, blues and reds). It's very inconsistent, so I can't really explain how to reproduce it :-/
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited February 2021
    "update from the developer meet and greet transcripts 8/2/21:
    Farmer: block all war on pets
    Farmer: and friendlys and such
    Farmer: could u add also summoned reds like
    Farmer: rcs
    Farmer: and vortexes
    Bleak: It’s not possible at this time

    This is the most requested bug fix, i'm not sure what the technicalities of the problem with fixing the issue is here, as the ability to distinguish friendly and non friendly summons is already coded in the game, if you cast an area effect spell or whirlwind etc, it will not affect friendly red summons, the rules that apply to targetting for area affect spells simply need to be applied for target nearest hostile/block war on friendly. I hope this information helps @Bleak and on behalf of the community look forward to a speedy resolution"-+-


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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    "I think perhaps what has not been explained is why it matters if you flag your guild mate. 
    If you press attack nearest hostile and it flags on your own grey/red guild mate, all following area effect spells that either party casts will then affect each other and you will continue to reflag each other, so one player will have to sit out a fight until they're fully unflagged"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • GwenGwen Posts: 210
    Issues with block war on pets:
    1- when in a war mode with "block war on pets" ON  I accidently double click on my pet - I start attacking it. It is quite devastating wit Thrower and 2* Elemental slayer against Triton. 
    I am trying to avoid it by some macroing , anyway happens 1-2 times per day. Opening doors, looting corpses in heat of the battle, etc. 
    2- even in peace mode with ""block war on pets"ON  you can discord your pet. fter this pet feels that something hostile was made and go to attack you.  There are some training times when you need to discord pet (to train healing for example). But normally my tamer defenitely dont want to discord a pet. 

    All happens Iin EC  with no mods or interfaces.. 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited July 2021
    Gwen said:
    Issues with block war on pets:
    1- when in a war mode with "block war on pets" ON  I accidently double click on my pet - I start attacking it. It is quite devastating wit Thrower and 2* Elemental slayer against Triton. 
    I am trying to avoid it by some macroing , anyway happens 1-2 times per day. Opening doors, looting corpses in heat of the battle, etc. 
    2- even in peace mode with ""block war on pets"ON  you can discord your pet. fter this pet feels that something hostile was made and go to attack you.  There are some training times when you need to discord pet (to train healing for example). But normally my tamer defenitely dont want to discord a pet. 

    All happens Iin EC  with no mods or interfaces.. 
    "with regards to number 1, i could not reproduce this problem sorry, tried with a gargoyle on EC with throwing, war on pet is blocked for me. 
    2, this is actually working as intended, the option only blocks war on pets (preventing you from accidentally attacking it with attack nearest etc or double clicking), if you use a target effect and specifically target a pet, this is not intended to be blocked"
    Posts on this account have been pre filtered from personal comment or opinion in an effort to suppress conservative views in order to protect the reader.
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    " @Kyronix @Mesanna to clarify the issue regarding the bugs with targeting that was spoken about at the meet and greet on 17/10/22 that make the official client currently unplayable for PvPers (hence why people are downloading different clients which fix this issue).


    Block war on friendly should block war on Murderer & Criminal friendly guild members
    But currently you can't actually play with this option ticked anyway because it is bugged, it is blocking war on innocent (blue) which are 99% of the time not friendly, and if you did wish to block war on innocent the option is already covered by 'Query before performing criminal action'

    As for target nearest hostile:


    The official client (and yourselves) have an unnecessary argument about what is considered 'Hostile'
    instead consider the following subtarget options in addition to Hostile:
    innocent (blue)
    friendly (green)
    neutral animal/monster/criminal/murderer (red/grey)
    enemy (orange)

    in all cases ghost hostiles should not be a valid target. "




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  • McDougleMcDougle Posts: 4,080
    Duplicate thread 
    Acknowledgment and accountability go a long way... 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited October 2022
    Yoshi said:

    As for target nearest hostile:


    The official client (and yourselves) have an unnecessary argument about what is considered 'Hostile'
    instead consider the following subtarget options in addition to Hostile:
    innocent (blue)
    friendly (green)
    neutral animal/monster/criminal/murderer (red/grey)
    enemy (orange)

    in all cases ghost hostiles should not be a valid target. "





    "please note on EC, default UI (copied from Pinco) had solved this targeting issue.
    it is able to differentiate targets,

    however no solution is currently available for official classic client. If nothing else the ability should be available in CC just to maintain parity between clients. "


    ec.png 99.9K
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  • GrimbeardGrimbeard Posts: 2,286
    Have used considered using both? I'm pirate Fisherman so ec map a must but use cc to have my bard auto follow 
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    “I, along with many other players have considered not playing official classic client at all and just uninstalling it yes, 
    but I’m not sure why they are offering it on the uo.com website even if it doesn’t work”
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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited December 2022
    “It is worth noting that select next/nearest hostile will not select your own summoned red drone,
    therefore it is already entirely possible for the classic client to distinguish between hostile and non hostile using factors other than Color”
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  • ForeverFunForeverFun Posts: 900
    Yoshi said:
    “It is worth noting that select next/nearest hostile will not select your own summoned red drone,
    therefore it is already entirely possible for the classic client to distinguish between hostile and non hostile using factors other than Color”

    Note "not select your own summoned red drone" is very different than "not select other red player summoned red drone".  The client knows that your own followers are not hostiles, at least in some cases.

    You should create a table representing various permutations for the observations here.

    e.g. you can have a column representing behavior for the "your own", another column for "guilded player", another for "blue", another for "VVV", etc.  Then have a row for each scenario "summoned EV", "pet", "animated undead", "targeted area effect spell", "blind area effect spell (e.g. EQ/thunderstorm",  etc.

    One problem with the various threads on these targeting topics is the broadsword team appears to be homing in on permutations that may not match up with what players are concerned with.

  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited December 2022
    “EC has already correctly split different mobiles into different categories. 

    Yes there are half a dozen duplicate threads on this topic because so many people were experiencing so many problems. (most have now resorted to changing client)

    however I am confident that all targeting issues and solutions to these issues are detailed in this one thread.”


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  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited January 2023
    "here is proof of error affecting classic client in the field, select nearest hostile, brings up neutral animal x 2 even though there are many oranges.


    Why i should receive many messages of hate from guild members for not hitting the target in time when i have to scroll through neutral animals...?
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  • Arroth_ThaielArroth_Thaiel Posts: 1,060
    Yoshi, I appreciate all the testing you do and keeping on the team about bugs, but I think you have all the answer you are going to get on this one and you're going to have to let it go. 

    --
    From the Meet & Greet on 10/17/2022:
    NEWS - Developer Meet and Greet, October 17th, 2022 | Stratics Community Forums

    "...
    [Napoleon]: there is a bug in classic client
    [Napoleon]: that when you press
    [Napoleon]: select nearest hostile
    [Napoleon]: it targets neurtral animals, dead players/pets, and red/gret guild members
    [Napoleon]: so people have to download a different client just to play the game
    [Napoleon]: it has been reported about 6 times on official forum i can send links
    [Kyronix]: Those are hostiles in the eyes notoriety checks
    [Kyronix]: So what you are reporting isn't a bug
    [Napoleon]: okay they are not though because
    [Napoleon]: if i cast earthquake, it will not hit a guild member
    [Napoleon]: so they are not hostile,
    [Kyronix]: That's not what we are referring to in this situation
    [Kyronix]: We all hear what you are saying
    [Napoleon]: you need to differentiate orange players to neutral animals
    [Kyronix]: And we all know what you want, but we disagree with your logic to get there
    [Kyronix]: Thanks for the feedback as always"
    ..."

    [Kyronix]: So what you are reporting isn't a bug
    --

    You are not going to get a more direct answer from the team. This thread needs to be closed as a bug report.

    @Mariah @Rorschach


    (I personally agree with Yoshi and think both clients should have better filters, but that is a feature request. The current behavior is clearly not a bug and it's time to stop badgering the team about it.)
    -Arroth
  • YoshiYoshi Posts: 3,322
    edited January 2023
    "There are about 4 or 5 issues listed in this thread, a comment at a meet and greet would not address all of these.

    if this bug is deemed a feature, then that would mean the official advice of the devs would then be to download third party client to fix so they could play in a guild with red members, and at the same meet and greet, Mesanna said that this is not allowed
    so i am certain they will not be forcing players to do that in order to just play the game without bugs

    I am sure they are moving away from reliance on third party software, as Mesanna has advised in an upcoming publish they will be adding a debuff for nerve strike, making it no longer necessary to use a third party client when fighting people using bokutos"
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  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 529Moderator
    OK. That is the end of this thread. Your "third party client" agenda is showing.
This discussion has been closed.