High Seas QoL Update: Cannons

Khyro

This is related to cannons, but may be a little outside the scope of the original request. I would love to see visuals of some kind when engaging in ship-to-ship cannon battles. Right now, you just need a little experience to know where a ship's hitbox is, but it would be nice if there was more feedback for a successful hit. 

Simple Suggestions:

• You can click part of the ship somewhere (mast, deck, etc). and pull a healthbar from it (similar to the Lighthouses at Blackthorn Captains). This would allow you to see the progress you are making on scuttling the ship.
• A simple visual effect that appears somewhere on a boat when it is hit by cannon fire. It doesn't have to line up with where it was hit, but an explosion/smoke cloud on the deck when you hit or get hit.
• Some kind of chat feedback from the Pilot NPC: "Direct Hit!" when you hit an enemy boat, and "We are taking cannon fire!" when you are hit, etc.

Right now you have 3 stages of boat visuals. Pristine (even when it's not technically pristine), damaged, and scuttled. These work well and I think alongside the above suggestions, it would really help with ship-to-ship cannon battles.

Not related to cannons, but I think there should be a "Ramming Speed" option, that allows you to charge into an enemy ship and inflict massive damage to both you and them

Garth_Grey

@Kyronix will you be changing the mechanics of firing to include the total speed from start to fire ? I ask this because the way it is now, Dread Pirates fire their cannons at pretty much the same speed that players can fire there's. If you change it for players, which in my opinion it doesn't need to be changed, will that change it for NPCs as well, or will they still use their same speed  ? I personally like the idea that they can scuttle our ships just as quick as we can scuttle theirs, and I hope this doesn't change.

Pawain

Sounds Great to me!

If Garth approves then so do I.

Can we have input such as this on some of the other upcoming additions or changes?

Thanks!

Someplayer

Please make crafting stuff for ship combat simpler.  Right now the design is way too complicated and tedious to be worthwhile.  The cannon system would be a lot better if it had an option to auto-fire.  Perhaps hirable NPC cannoneers that could be assigned to each gun to do the work?

I would love the existing content if it wasn't so convoluted.  Why so many materials and steps to make ammunition and fire it.  Gah!  What a chore!

Remember we play this game to have fun and a lot of people do fishing/sailing solo.  Also, the rewards for fishing and High Seas Quests are too low compared to the effort used to acquire them.  The only reward that excites anyone is the +20 fishing scroll.  The rewards could use an upgrade.

 An overhaul sounds like what the game needs. High Seas has great content but the systems need to be streamlined and new, exciting rewards put in for pirates, quests, and fishing stuff.   Kudos for taking this on!

MissE

Garth_Grey said:

MissE said:

I don't want any added content to run a ship or take a pirate vessel down that REQUIRES more than one person on the boat.  If so it will totally DESTROY what small amount of fun there currently is.  On small shards you will never get a crew EVER so even thinking about making it a mutliplayer event will have a seriously negative impact.  That is not to say multiplayers can't man your boat and do whatever, just make sure it isn't compulsory.  I also don't want to hire npc's to man cannons, that is just another level of complexity. 

If anything we should have a console at the wheel that allows the captain to fire off any cannon #1-7 or however many there are with the click of a button, same as you should have your cannon bag and 'select' load cannon 1,  load cannon 4 etc as well as it being able to be done manually at each cannon.   I currently use ONE cannon on my boat, the front one, any more than that is overkill to take down a pirate ship, not to mention a pain in the butt running from one to the other, and then having multiple cannons to fix all the time and getting the boat aligned to actually fire at the thing you are aiming at.

This read sounds like you're trying to tell the rest of us that your way to sink ships is the only needed way. Right now, all we need is a simplification of the ammunition creation process..that's it. Cannons work just fine the way they are, the ammunition types are pretty much worthless other than heavy cannon balls, and this comment is coming from someone who's collected 225 orc ships to date, although I'm sure someone else has 500.

Actually I don't care how you run your ship or fire your cannons Garth, my comment was more to address another further up that was suggesting having to 'hire' npcs' to man the cannons.  I just don't want it so that you HAVE to run more than one cannon if you don't want to.  I would prefer just to dump in a cannon ball and fire, instead of all the existing crafting and mucking about. Never said MY way was the ONLY way needed either, just don't make it more complicated than it currently IS.  

You may think all we need is a simplification of the ammo process, on that I agree, but having a simpler way to manage cannons without needing to  run from one cannon to the next is something I would like to see.  If you feel that there isn't a need fine, however I don't agree that the way Cannons currently work is fine, I think they too can be simplified, so I guess it is YOU who is saying  YOUR way of doing it is best rather than me saying it.  I actually said if people wanted to run multiple cannons and have a crew that is fine, just ensure that it is still possible for solo players to be effective. I do not see how on earth from my comment you could infer that I was trying to tell anyone how to sink ships, suggest  you re-read what I wrote.

Tanager

Cannons right now can be crafted using colored ingots, and you can even apply natural dyes to them afterwards. The deed shows the color, but when you place the cannon all color poofs, and the deed is uncolored if you chop it. In addition to keeping ore color, pretty please can they remain (and retain) dyed hues?

I would do some High Season content JUST to enjoy a rainbow ship!

DeadBob

Just saw this post on improving High Seas & love it.
You devs might be able to look at the feedback from the original BETA testers of High Seas. It ain't changed. We need a far less complicated set of requirements to play High Seas. Cannon fodder should be easier to acquire and firing a cannon shouldn't cost as much as it does.
Make High Seas user friendly and the UO players will have a blast with it.

Garth_Grey

MissE said:

Garth_Grey said:

MissE said:

I don't want any added content to run a ship or take a pirate vessel down that REQUIRES more than one person on the boat.  If so it will totally DESTROY what small amount of fun there currently is.  On small shards you will never get a crew EVER so even thinking about making it a mutliplayer event will have a seriously negative impact.  That is not to say multiplayers can't man your boat and do whatever, just make sure it isn't compulsory.  I also don't want to hire npc's to man cannons, that is just another level of complexity. 

If anything we should have a console at the wheel that allows the captain to fire off any cannon #1-7 or however many there are with the click of a button, same as you should have your cannon bag and 'select' load cannon 1,  load cannon 4 etc as well as it being able to be done manually at each cannon.   I currently use ONE cannon on my boat, the front one, any more than that is overkill to take down a pirate ship, not to mention a pain in the butt running from one to the other, and then having multiple cannons to fix all the time and getting the boat aligned to actually fire at the thing you are aiming at.

This read sounds like you're trying to tell the rest of us that your way to sink ships is the only needed way. Right now, all we need is a simplification of the ammunition creation process..that's it. Cannons work just fine the way they are, the ammunition types are pretty much worthless other than heavy cannon balls, and this comment is coming from someone who's collected 225 orc ships to date, although I'm sure someone else has 500.

Actually I don't care how you run your ship or fire your cannons Garth, my comment was more to address another further up that was suggesting having to 'hire' npcs' to man the cannons.  I just don't want it so that you HAVE to run more than one cannon if you don't want to.  I would prefer just to dump in a cannon ball and fire, instead of all the existing crafting and mucking about. Never said MY way was the ONLY way needed either, just don't make it more complicated than it currently IS.  

You may think all we need is a simplification of the ammo process, on that I agree, but having a simpler way to manage cannons without needing to  run from one cannon to the next is something I would like to see.  If you feel that there isn't a need fine, however I don't agree that the way Cannons currently work is fine, I think they too can be simplified, so I guess it is YOU who is saying  YOUR way of doing it is best rather than me saying it.  I actually said if people wanted to run multiple cannons and have a crew that is fine, just ensure that it is still possible for solo players to be effective. I do not see how on earth from my comment you could infer that I was trying to tell anyone how to sink ships, suggest  you re-read what I wrote.

I don't think I attacked you in any way with my reply, not sure the purpose of the  6 All Caps words back at me.

Petra_Fyde

@Kyronix ; Without quoting the entire post, your 'current thinking' sounds pretty good to me. 
Loading multiple cannons and then being able to fire a 'broadside' with one command sounds like a nice idea - and I believe such was actually possible through use of a lanyard, though I've not checked my facts on that.

Tim

Just a thought to keep multi player in the mix. How about it a canon controlled by an active player rather then the captain or a NPC firing faster or hitting harder? It might be a little tricky to set up to prevent multi boxing but would make it worth while to get a team together.

PlayerSkillFTW

Maybe add Ship Upgrades as a new reward as well. Such as collecting the pieces for a Scantlings recipe that makes your ship more resistant to hull damage, or a Cotton Sails recipe that increases the ship speed, or a Triple Hammocks recipe that allows you to have more players aboard the ship, or a Cargo recipe that allows you to increase the capacity of the ship's hold. And yes, i ripped most of those from Sid Meier's Pirates! game. Loved that game.

MissE

Garth_Grey said:

I don't think I attacked you in any way with my reply, not sure the purpose of the  6 All Caps words back at me.

This read sounds like you're trying to tell the rest of us that your way to sink ships is the only needed way.   Just referencing that.

Bilbo

PlayerSkillFTW said:

Maybe add Ship Upgrades as a new reward as well. Such as collecting the pieces for a Scantlings recipe that makes your ship more resistant to hull damage, or a Cotton Sails recipe that increases the ship speed, or a Triple Hammocks recipe that allows you to have more players aboard the ship, or a Cargo recipe that allows you to increase the capacity of the ship's hold. And yes, i ripped most of those from Sid Meier's Pirates! game. Loved that game.

Nice idea a way to add armor to a ship kind of like Old Iron Sides.

Seth

Petra_Fyde said:

@ Kyronix  Without quoting the entire post, your 'current thinking' sounds pretty good to me. 
Loading multiple cannons and then being able to fire a 'broadside' with one command sounds like a nice idea - and I believe such was actually possible through use of a lanyard, though I've not checked my facts on that.

Agreed, whether to hire crew for cannons or not, doesn't matter.

But single command for firing entire starboard, port side or front (Britain Ships) would be preferred.This also means we can chase fleeing ships and fire using the Britain ship. 

Tyrath

 

MissE said:

Garth_Grey said:

I don't think I attacked you in any way with my reply, not sure the purpose of the  6 All Caps words back at me.

This read sounds like you're trying to tell the rest of us that your way to sink ships is the only needed way.   Just referencing that.

  No secret that Garth and Myself do not like each other very much so take this with that in mind.  Garth is right.  You do realize you can fire 4 cannons  2 port and 2 starboard without moving a single tile, let alone running around?   With you firing one cannon, I would have scuttled the ship, killed the crew and tied the pirate up and been on my way to turn him in........... before you have even scuttled the ship?   Now add just one friend on the deck operating the front 3 cannons in addition the 4 back cannons.  Sorry if you take this as an attack but your lack of knowledge and skill with boats should not be the basis for making it EASY.   Improved and streamlined sure but if you can only manage one front cannon solo as it is now, short of adding a full auto pilot and auto load and fire easy button there ain't much that is going to improve your ability outside of learning and practice. 

  Now I am picturing Starfleet Captains on the ships using the command "Computer attack plan Delta!"

Firedoc48878

i have been playing for 17 years and one thing that annoyed me about High Seas was that my mule had to have all the skills (Tinkering Blacksmith Alchemist Tailoring cooking) just to make
stuff to shoot a cannon i think three skills max should be used (Tinkering Blacksmithing Alchemist)
and i agree with only one size cannon plus using valorite( ie Cannons and Cannon Balls)
 to increase Damage would be a great way to simplify the High Seas

MissE

Problem with the idea of using valorite to make cannons and cannon balls is that since they mucked up the resources to make em random, you can spend three hours mining legitimately and come away with 55 val ingots for your effort.  Using high end ingots to make anything these days just reward scripters. I seriously hate buying ingots off scripters but that is the ONLY way to get high end in large amounts as they are the ONLY ones selling them.   I have always mined manually with a fire beetle and for the past few yrs have not had enough val ingots to make up one large bod a yr.

Firedoc48878

MissE said:

Problem with the idea of using valorite to make cannons and cannon balls is that since they mucked up the resources to make em random, you can spend three hours mining legitimately and come away with 55 val ingots for your effort.  Using high end ingots to make anything these days just reward scripters. I seriously hate buying ingots off scripters but that is the ONLY way to get high end in large amounts as they are the ONLY ones selling them.   I have always mined manually with a fire beetle and for the past few yrs have not had enough val ingots to make up one large bod a yr.

I mine and also raid merchant ships they usually have 250 valorite ingots and other types
so the use of valorite is not an issue but i do mine with gargoyle picks in FEL also its a risk of getting PK'd but the pay off is great

Petra_Fyde

MissE said:

Problem with the idea of using valorite to make cannons and cannon balls is that since they mucked up the resources to make em random, you can spend three hours mining legitimately and come away with 55 val ingots for your effort.  Using high end ingots to make anything these days just reward scripters. I seriously hate buying ingots off scripters but that is the ONLY way to get high end in large amounts as they are the ONLY ones selling them.   I have always mined manually with a fire beetle and for the past few yrs have not had enough val ingots to make up one large bod a yr.

Not entirely accurate, there are other ways to get valorite, but they do require considerable effort and dedication.
1. you can get a valorite map from BoDs, either smith or tinker, and a talisman to enable loss free smelting
2. you can get the same items from Vela the Sorceress in return for Void Pool points
3. you can convert 500 bronze using the elixir of valorite conversion from Zosilem's quest. 

Garth_Grey

Cannons fire just fine the way they are, if you cant fire 4 cannons from one spot you've got no business on the ship in the first place... @Kyronix , if this is Step one in the revamp, all that's really needed is a simplification of the ammo production for now.

Skull

I would love to sail the high seas, but sadly my Britanian ship wasn't saved by my Lighthouse, so I will not be involved.

Smoot

sell cannonballs off npc

fire cannonballs with one click

thats pretty much the only way i would participate in high seas content.  the rewards just arent great enough to rationalize putting any effort into actually crafting cannonballs and taking time to fire them.

Garth_Grey

Did you not read the original post ? Kyronix is starting out with a change to Cannons, and if you're so limited in your thinking that "that's pretty much the only way you'll participate", you should probably move on to another topic, you're not bringing a discussion to the table.

Bilbo

^^^^THIS^^^^

Basara

Speaking of High Seas Beta, does anyone still have the video of former lead Calvin at the HS Meet & Greet in Fairfax pulling a Lord British, forgetting to set God Mode, and getting blown away as he sailed to the buoy line of the Emporium, where there was a ship of orcs waiting to kill him? 

Seth

Smoot said:

sell cannonballs off npc

fire cannonballs with one click

thats pretty much the only way i would participate in high seas content.  the rewards just arent great enough to rationalize putting any effort into actually crafting cannonballs and taking time to fire them.

This is what kept me from playing ship battle after a few tries, the process starting from the raw material to the firing is too long. If there is a group I think it would work well. One can play captain while the rest be cannon gunners, or archers or simply mages. Its easy to split the tasks.

As a captain the control has to be simple and not like currently, need to stand between 4 cannons and fire them all. Not saying the current system is anything wrong, it was created at a time when this makes sense and firing 4 cannon from one position can be seen as an exploit? Whatever, it does not matter now. My opinion to make it better is same with those who agree to simplify the firing with one button for entire broadside or individually - as a command from a Captain and not trying to play a gunner manning 8 guns at the same time while trying to manoeuvre the ship, heal, etc.

I also like one of the ideas proposed to have visual effects, similiar like meteor visual (magery).

Bilbo

K.I.S.S.  The more the better.

Smoot

Garth_Grey said:

Did you not read the original post ? Kyronix is starting out with a change to Cannons, and if you're so limited in your thinking that "that's pretty much the only way you'll participate", you should probably move on to another topic, you're not bringing a discussion to the table.

Its very relevant what i bring to the table, because i dont play High seas, so im one of the players for whom the re-vamp is targeted at.

High seas is being revamped, because most players right now arent doing the content.  most use it just for the corgul's sash, nothing more.  theres a reason for that. 

Im giving insight to make the content useable to the general playerbase, which is the point of a re-vamp.  the people who are into the high seas process already are of lower concern because theyve most likely already bought high seas.

The people who dont currently enjoy it are the target audience, and for those players better rewards and absolute minimal complexity would be needed for a revamp to be successfull.

The_hand_of_god

So I have a question. Being new to the whole private thing how do you fire 4 cannons? I see 2 on each side of the boat. Do you fire all 4 facing the same way and some fly over the boat or do you fire 2 then flip the boat and fire again?

Kyronix

Great feedback so far everyone - we really appreciate it!  Many (not all!) of the changes discussed made it through implementation and are going through QA.  We are targeting next week for our first TC1 release so looking forward to everyone's feedback once we publish and can get on TC1 to check things out!

I've seen the mention of rewards come up a couple of times - what kinds of items are you looking for rewards?  With the cannon changes we are definitely going to be giving you all something worth shooting at and the right reward is really going to sweeten the deal!  So what kinds of things get you excited?