VvV Item Abuse By Non-VvV Participating Characters

AtomicBetty

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

I play in Felucca, PvP and VvV.

I don't VvV for these rewards, the Antique tag makes them useless, they burn down in seconds.

I will not wear any VvV items, they need a buff, and definitely getting rid of the Antique tag.

I don't think any actual player would use VvV items - notice the above example, the player only plays EM events... When he talks about really playing the game, he means Banksitting.

So whilst I disagree that VvV items are any use to the actual guys who want to use them, I can see maybe they are abused.

Ban them from Trammel? Fine.

They are already better than their original artifact counterparts. No buff lol. If you play in Felucca, PVP and VvV then you are using the artifacts for their intended purpose and you will have no problem purchasing replacements when they wear out.

Zero stats for VVV gear in trammel would be an excellent fix @ Mesanna @ @ Kyronix 

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

I've already stated I PvP, VvV and will not use the items. I don't care if you think they are better because they have better stats. They wear down too fast, and I actually want to play the game, ie PvP, rather than keep worrying about the state of my gear all the time.

So the items are pointless, for the players who would actually want to earn them and use them for the right reasons.

I've just made another thread, where I mention my IDOC PvP for around 4 hours in total nonstop last night. It was intense, at no point during that, do I want to be thinking about my gear. That was just 1 fight... I fight all the time.

But to agree with you on this thread topic, though maybe for completely different reasons - ban them from Trammel, to stop other types of abuse you mention - sure.

But if your any kind of decent pvper your using Antique jewels anyways and since VvV artifacts are free you don't even need to worry about them breaking if they do actually break (which they won't in one night of PvP) then just go get new ones. Which is something you should appreciate since getting the 500 points is 'objective' based pvp. So for a guy who claims to like objective based pvp you do not support that claim by not using VvV artifacts and trying to engage in fights over towns.

Cookie

AtomicBetty said:

Cookie said:

username said:

Cookie said:

I play in Felucca, PvP and VvV.

I don't VvV for these rewards, the Antique tag makes them useless, they burn down in seconds.

I will not wear any VvV items, they need a buff, and definitely getting rid of the Antique tag.

I don't think any actual player would use VvV items - notice the above example, the player only plays EM events... When he talks about really playing the game, he means Banksitting.

So whilst I disagree that VvV items are any use to the actual guys who want to use them, I can see maybe they are abused.

Ban them from Trammel? Fine.

They are already better than their original artifact counterparts. No buff lol. If you play in Felucca, PVP and VvV then you are using the artifacts for their intended purpose and you will have no problem purchasing replacements when they wear out.

Zero stats for VVV gear in trammel would be an excellent fix @ Mesanna @ @ Kyronix 

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

I've already stated I PvP, VvV and will not use the items. I don't care if you think they are better because they have better stats. They wear down too fast, and I actually want to play the game, ie PvP, rather than keep worrying about the state of my gear all the time.

So the items are pointless, for the players who would actually want to earn them and use them for the right reasons.

I've just made another thread, where I mention my IDOC PvP for around 4 hours in total nonstop last night. It was intense, at no point during that, do I want to be thinking about my gear. That was just 1 fight... I fight all the time.

But to agree with you on this thread topic, though maybe for completely different reasons - ban them from Trammel, to stop other types of abuse you mention - sure.

But if your any kind of decent pvper your using Antique jewels anyways and since VvV artifacts are free you don't even need to worry about them breaking if they do actually break (which they won't in one night of PvP) then just go get new ones. Which is something you should appreciate since getting the 500 points is 'objective' based pvp. So for a guy who claims to like objective based pvp you do not support that claim by not using VvV artifacts and trying to engage in fights over towns.

To support the claim we engage in VvV townfights, my guild is far and away in the lead on the VvV Leaderboards, and always has been. Myself and my guildmembers are currently; 2nd,5th,6th,7th,8th,13th,14th,16th,18th,19th,20th and 21st on the VvV Leaderboards - taking up 12 spots of the top 25. This has been done via actual PvP in the most part, and not via farming, scripting or macroing. {A couple of thief's included}.

I  VvV for Supernova potions mainly - cannot have enough of these - I know I can use EJ characters to collect Supernova's by the ton, but again, I prefer to actually play it. Currently need a ton of Royal Pardons as I have pushed my characters so far Red in recent PvP they will never see Trammel again... I don't mind this of course, in fact I enjoy being Red, but I do also like using Town Buffs, and the Virtues, so one half of my playstyle, is harming the other half of my playstyle.

I must not be a decent PvPer, as I will not use Antique jewellery - I rage enough at having to use Brittle... - I need durability, I don't need to occupy any headspace on my gear, and I certainly am not going to be changing gear parts over after/before/during every fight. So no, I will not be seen dead in VvV gear due to its deficiencies. And I cannot be the only one thinking like this - I hardly see {you}, or anyone else doing VvV due to the "lack of decent rewards" being the mainly quoted reason... No-one likes the VvV gear. One of the main requests to boost VvV is to boost the rewards... IE the Antique armour that is given out.

When I log in, I start Scouting immediately, or I am immediately called to help out in a fight somewhere, I do not get time to mess around with armour. Restocking is bad enough for me, If I die, I usually restock on the field, as we've usually killed enough. I spend Sunday mornings in my castle putting away all the Loot I've collected during the week/repairing gear on all my characters, that is my only downtime, in between Work, Kids, a Social Life, PvP…

Nikard

How have faction artifacts diminished your gameplay in any capacity?

Your brainpower would be better served elsewhere.

Cookie

Nikard said:

How have faction artifacts diminished your gameplay in any capacity?

Your brainpower would be better served elsewhere.

Who are you responding to?

Nikard

Cookie said:

Nikard said:

How have faction artifacts diminished your gameplay in any capacity?

Your brainpower would be better served elsewhere.

Who are you responding to?

Everyone that has been trying to beat this dead horse of a topic for the last 15 years.

Lots of areas of the game need updates, vvv being one of them. Faction artifacts being used by "non participating members" however, is a non issue.

Max_Blackoak

username said:

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

Blackthorn artifacts will not be destroyed. You will still be able to get them from captains in the city pod area. The only thing they are getting rid of is the other monster spawn in that dungeon to prevent people from easily script farming those.

Petra_Fyde

Max_Blackoak said:

username said:

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

Blackthorn artifacts will not be destroyed. You will still be able to get them from captains in the city pod area. The only thing they are getting rid of is the other monster spawn in that dungeon to prevent people from easily script farming those.

I sincerely hope that they have not 'got rid' of the other monster spawn. I was under the impression that this was part of the seasonal arc ( @Kyronix ?).  I have some Minax artifacts collected and need a further 30 to get what I was saving for. My character is not up to soloing the captains, I spend far to much time running away from the yellow captains while trying to kill the other spawn!  I also usually use Fel Blackthorns and never have any problem with scripters.

Cookie

Petra_Fyde said:

Max_Blackoak said:

username said:

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

Blackthorn artifacts will not be destroyed. You will still be able to get them from captains in the city pod area. The only thing they are getting rid of is the other monster spawn in that dungeon to prevent people from easily script farming those.

I sincerely hope that they have not 'got rid' of the other monster spawn. I was under the impression that this was part of the seasonal arc ( @ Kyronix ?).  I have some Minax artifacts collected and need a further 30 to get what I was saving for. My character is not up to soloing the captains, I spend far to much time running away from the yellow captains while trying to kill the other spawn!  I also usually use Fel Blackthorns and never have any problem with scripters.

I'm in exactly the same position as you Petra.

I personally hunt the Felucca Mages, Golden Elementals and the Balron. It would again damage my playstyle to get rid of these. I also hunt Oranges there.

I'm also hoping/expecting it to just be part of the Arc, but part of me can see them permanently getting rid of such spawn, just to bury the scripting problem... which would be a bit of a cop-out.

Having thought about it, they will probably just make the Arc Trammel related only, which would destroy Trammel Blackthorn spawn, and leave Felucca alone... which would suit me, as there is no scripting problem in Felucca anyway, and it would allow me to continue normal hunts. Although it does wind me up, when they do Trammel only events... All of this is hypothetical, see what happens, if I like it I join in, If I don't, I don't.

Tyrath

 The big question I have here is.... How is people using these in tram having any negative impact on PvP or VvV ?  Or is just the latest major issue that is a total non issue?

Cookie

Tyrath said:

 The big question I have here is.... How is people using these in tram having any negative impact on PvP or VvV ? 

No-one has said it does.

The Opener wanted to Nerf some already useless VvV items, which I could not see the point of.

I then accepted that maybe they can be abused in Trammel, and that if he wanted them banned from Trammel, fine. (Too easy to set up characters on every shard for EM events etc).

To quote the opener below, I could not agree with the 2 parts in Bold, and I would respond to his part in Italics - that the items he mentions, are the originals and have no durability loss, and can be blessed which makes them infinitely more desirable, even if the VvV items have a few more stats.

"These artifacts last a VERY long time despite having the 'Antique' property and are more powerful than their original counterparts. This goes against the spirit of these items and devalues a lot of bosses/content in the game.
I propose two easy changes:

• No VvV points are given to new characters/guilds joining VvV
• All VvV artifacts receive an additional "Cannot Be Repaired" tag

Combined both of these changes would impose active participation in the VvV system to continue the use the artifacts.

What's my incentive to get a real Ornament of the Magician? Crystalline Ring? Crimson Cincture? Primer? Etc."

username

Max_Blackoak said:

username said:

Especially with the destruction of Blackthorns artifacts it would be a great way to encourage people to actually do the content

Blackthorn artifacts will not be destroyed. You will still be able to get them from captains in the city pod area. The only thing they are getting rid of is the other monster spawn in that dungeon to prevent people from easily script farming those.

Yes, I understand. This was not a literal retroactive destruction of these artifacts. Meaning, these artifacts are going to be a LOT harder to get and most people probably wont' bother.

username

Cookie said:

Petra_Fyde said:

I sincerely hope that they have not 'got rid' of the other monster spawn. I was under the impression that this was part of the seasonal arc ( @ Kyronix ?).  I have some Minax artifacts collected and need a further 30 to get what I was saving for. My character is not up to soloing the captains, I spend far to much time running away from the yellow captains while trying to kill the other spawn!  I also usually use Fel Blackthorns and never have any problem with scripters.

I'm in exactly the same position as you Petra.

I personally hunt the Felucca Mages, Golden Elementals and the Balron. It would again damage my playstyle to get rid of these. I also hunt Oranges there.

I'm also hoping/expecting it to just be part of the Arc, but part of me can see them permanently getting rid of such spawn, just to bury the scripting problem... which would be a bit of a cop-out.

Having thought about it, they will probably just make the Arc Trammel related only, which would destroy Trammel Blackthorn spawn, and leave Felucca alone... which would suit me, as there is no scripting problem in Felucca anyway, and it would allow me to continue normal hunts. Although it does wind me up, when they do Trammel only events... All of this is hypothetical, see what happens, if I like it I join in, If I don't, I don't.

This is exactly what is being done. You can see for yourself on TC1. In both fel/tram it's not only blocked off but there is no lesser spawn. I believe they said going forward, after the story arc, the lesser spawn will not drop the turn-in/minor artifacts and they will solely be from the captains. Another knee-jerk reaction that destroys the casual player like myself on a small shard. Guess the devs really want everyone to move to Atlantic to be able to do anything lol. But anyways, that's for another discussion.

username

Cookie said:

Tyrath said:

 The big question I have here is.... How is people using these in tram having any negative impact on PvP or VvV ? 

No-one has said it does.

The Opener wanted to Nerf some already useless VvV items, which I could not see the point of.

I then accepted that maybe they can be abused in Trammel, and that if he wanted them banned from Trammel, fine. (Too easy to set up characters on every shard for EM events etc).

To quote the opener below, I could not agree with the 2 parts in Bold, and I would respond to his part in Italics - that the items he mentions, are the originals and have no durability loss, and can be blessed which makes them infinitely more desirable, even if the VvV items have a few more stats.

"These artifacts last a VERY long time despite having the 'Antique' property and are more powerful than their original counterparts. This goes against the spirit of these items and devalues a lot of bosses/content in the game.
I propose two easy changes:

• No VvV points are given to new characters/guilds joining VvV
• All VvV artifacts receive an additional "Cannot Be Repaired" tag

Combined both of these changes would impose active participation in the VvV system to continue the use the artifacts.

What's my incentive to get a real Ornament of the Magician? Crystalline Ring? Crimson Cincture? Primer? Etc."

I think my opener was a bit aggressive. This thread has opened some great conversation and I would like to 'update' my original post and, instead propose just this one simple change:

• VvV artifacts only provide their stat bonuses in Fel

This would be a great catch-all and will fix all the problems I see without making any changes to their intended use or changing any current suits/gameplay. I will remove the point "No VvV points are given to new characters/guilds joining VvV" because as long as these items are being used for their original purposes, PvP and reward for PvP, and since PvP is mostly a Fel facet gameplay, I have no problem with those players receiving these for 'free'. 

So @Mesanna @Kyronix How about making VvV artifacts only provide their stat bonuses in Fel?

Tyrath

So @Mesanna @Kyronix How about making VvV artifacts only provide their stat bonuses in Fel?

   So again I would ask why? and Why non PvPs using this junk in tram is such a huge issue?  I mean is it just yer fetish burr that rubs you wrong or is there an actual detriment to your game play that is being affected by trammies having these items? 

  Personally I don't care either way about this junk, just seems like a waste of dev time for a total non issue to me.  Unless of course there is some issue with them that is more than (I don't think it should be this way change it.) 

username

Tyrath said:

So @ Mesanna @ Kyronix How about making VvV artifacts only provide their stat bonuses in Fel?

   So again I would ask why? and Why non PvPs using this junk in tram is such a huge issue?  I mean is it just yer fetish burr that rubs you wrong or is there an actual detriment to your game play that is being affected by trammies having these items? 

  Personally I don't care either way about this junk, just seems like a waste of dev time for a total non issue to me.  Unless of course there is some issue with them that is more than (I don't think it should be this way change it.) 

This has already been outlined in the first post and throughout. You are free to read it at your leisure. 

Tyrath

username said:

Tyrath said:

So @ Mesanna @ Kyronix How about making VvV artifacts only provide their stat bonuses in Fel?

   So again I would ask why? and Why non PvPs using this junk in tram is such a huge issue?  I mean is it just yer fetish burr that rubs you wrong or is there an actual detriment to your game play that is being affected by trammies having these items? 

  Personally I don't care either way about this junk, just seems like a waste of dev time for a total non issue to me.  Unless of course there is some issue with them that is more than (I don't think it should be this way change it.) 

This has already been outlined in the first post and throughout. You are free to read it at your leisure. 

   SO I read it again thinking I might have missed something. Nope still just get you don't like therefor it should not be.