Pets Unbonding & Skill Loss.

KHAN

Bilbo said:

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @ Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times. 

This sums it up pretty well! I have A LOT of pets, and have never had one go wild. BUT, I pay close attention to my pet's "happiness", feed them every 10 minutes or so, and am VERY careful NOT to give commands when discoed (Travesty, the roof, Twisted Wield, etc. IF you spam commands while you are discoed, you CAN lose your pet. But that is the only way I have ever seen it happen.

KHAN

Petra_Fyde said:

JenniferMarie said:

— Here’s a kicker:

At ShadowGuard with a fully trained Phoenix and the stupid Lich comes up. The Phoenix gets Disco’d and unbonds.

ok ... I didn’t even know this was a thing that could happen, so at first I was livid.

The friend who was at Roof with me drags the Phoenix off and I retame.

Now, if skill loss was the only thing I had to contend with? No problem.

But guess what? The Phoenix lost HP and other stats. A fully trained Phoenix with no training points left on him. Tell me how THAT is fair in any way, shape, or form?

I'm at a loss to know how this happened. None of the shadowguard roof bosses have bard abilities, none of those could have disco'ed you or the pet.

One of the "bosses" has an "ability" that WILL drop your skills! I can't remember which one though, sorry.

Pawain

Lady Mel has minions that Discord you.  

I have lost a Windrunner and Skree while playing.  The Skree was wonderfully happy 10 min before it went poof.  I posted bug reports for each.

Skree here https://forum.uo.com/discussion/comment/27871/#Comment_27871

Cant find Windrunner. 

MissE

Bilbo said:

MissE said:

Bilbo said:

Without knowing everything that happened it is hard to say what really happened or if in fact that this is a bug.  People need to contact @ Kyronix and give the truth about what happened.  I have seen tamers give command after command to pets non stop and they wounder why they go wild.  I have also seen people that go to areas that they can get discorded and give commands to pets.  People need to be totally honest or this problem will never be fixed.  If there is a bug then please DEVs fix it or if it is a player problem then people need to pay better attention to what is going on with their pets at all times.

Hmm as the OP, I told you what happened and frankly resent the implication that I was not being HONEST.  In who's opinion?  Yours?

Miasma is hardly a known pet to cause unbonding.  Other than 'all kill' that was the ONLY command given, and as I said 2 mins or less before the pet was wonderfully happy.  I assume when it got mortally wounded (the special miasma does) it didn't like it but it shouldn't go wild, especially as you cannot HEAL the pet while in that state, although it was healed immediately after.  It just went wild, nothing else.

I guess unless it happens to YOU, you think everyone else is just making stuff up. 

So your pet is mortally wounded and you still tell it all kill, good for you.

No I said 'all kill' and then miasma mortally wounds it.  Sheesh.

Kirthag

I have had my blue bug since they first came out. She was tamed and gifted to my pure crafter. This bug is not for combat, but a ridable pack animal bonded to my crafter. This beetle came from Napa, moved me across shards, between castles, and is Tandy's best friend... is a beloved beast of burden.

Just a few minutes ago, I got off her to feed, and she unbonded then went wild almost instantly (got off, grabbed some food, dragging it to her maw, and she unbonded, dropped her load, and is now wild making angry noises at Tandy). The kind tamers of Pacific enlightened me that owners can retame - I am so thankful for this! I was about to cry.... 

I was not in combat, nowhere near anything that would aggro. Am in my care-bear-land castle moving things around and doing stuff. Literally just logged on, went to the bank, grabbed stuff, returned to the castle, got off the bug, grabbed meats from a container, was dragging it when she had her fit. No commands, no combat, and this was to be her first feeding of the day (I normally fed right at login, about every half hour or so with a snack or two, then right before logging off).

This is indeed an issue...

ETA: She is tamed again, very well fed, and still making angry noises. Did lore on her and she's "wonderfully happy" even if making those angry noises. What I find interesting is that she's maxed on her attributes and stuff, but not her combat skills. Funny, I never did any training with this bug - although through the years there's been the odd combat with a wandering monster while mining or lumberjacking like a troll or spider - but not active hunting. Tandy doesn't do hunting, just gathering. 

I would suspect that after all these years the bug would have some attributes and such - just maxxed out surprises me. Here are her lore pages...

Pawain

Glad you got the bug back!  Pets going wild needs to be removed.  If they want to walk in circles when they get unhappy, that would be fine. 

Arron

I am sorry that happened, but it is good it happened in a safe place. This needs to be investigated. I do hunt with my Scrolled out Triton and would be heartbroken and a bit upset if it randomly  un-bonded. Also If I remember correctly the bugs are at max stats when tamed. If I am incorrect someone please correct me please.

Kirthag

jst wanna add before i go to bed and forget  - i had never - ever - had issues with my bug doing this or anything of the sort. i've had nightmares go wild and need retaming, even my WW went wild once and needed retaming, but that was because i got spammy with commands and forgot to feed or something stupid like that. but my "big bug" - never had issues. I typically store meat on it so every time I look in the pack I remember to feed it - so is not like its never fed. I also didn't give any commands - tandy typically logs out sleeping on her bug (mounted).

i'm not against making a pet perma-bonded (never any chance of going wild) even if it is kinda metagaming at that point (even the best dog will go spaz if mistreated - and they are the most loyal of creatures i know), but there should be some sort of warning system... like it just won't move or be mounted, or some systems message as others have mentioned. Even a mistreated dog will give warning signs before freaking out.

i go bed now....

Cinderella

I had an anniversary pony die yesterday, when my char did.
It had been fed and was wonderfully happy.
maybe its because the plunderbeacon killed My Ex Wife and the pony...
(named that char for a friend so he could have some bones with the name on it)

MissE

OK just had a fully scrolled Triton unbond and get killed doing the roof.  The pet was wonderfully happy as I had lored/fed it after killing anon, Jounar spawned, I said 'all kill' and targeted Jounar.  The triton was my tank pet and I had used it lots of times doing the roof. It unbonded  just as the thing summoned a bunch of skel dragons and lich lords and got killed by the spawn.

The ONLY command it had been given since loring and feeding was 'all follow me' then the 'all kill' to attack Jounar. 

Will you please fix it so pets do not 'unbond' or if they do that they become immune to dmg for at least 10 mins to allow retaming.  This time the pet got killed and it was impossible to tame in the middle of 2 skel dragons, 2 lich lords plus the boss.  My tamer went down in the end trying to get it to tame as there was no way to get the stuff off it.  I couldn't even drag the spawn away with another character. 

This pet had 129.9 wrestling and had been scrolled, it was also farmed from beacons to actually get one at max wrestle which took a LOT of becaon points.

I am seriously over this. @Kyronix

popps

MissE said:

OK just had a fully scrolled Triton unbond and get killed doing the roof.  The pet was wonderfully happy as I had lored/fed it after killing anon, Jounar spawned, I said 'all kill' and targeted Jounar.  The triton was my tank pet and I had used it lots of times doing the roof. It unbonded  just as the thing summoned a bunch of skel dragons and lich lords and got killed by the spawn.

The ONLY command it had been given since loring and feeding was 'all follow me' then the 'all kill' to attack Jounar. 

Will you please fix it so pets do not 'unbond' or if they do that they become immune to dmg for at least 10 mins to allow retaming.  This time the pet got killed and it was impossible to tame in the middle of 2 skel dragons, 2 lich lords plus the boss.  My tamer went down in the end trying to get it to tame as there was no way to get the stuff off it.  I couldn't even drag the spawn away with another character. 

This pet had 129.9 wrestling and had been scrolled, it was also farmed from beacons to actually get one at max wrestle which took a LOT of becaon points.

I am seriously over this. @ Kyronix

I am very very sorry for your loss, as I can well understand how much time consuming it is to get a good Triton to spawn.... not to mention, the time spent in training it up and the cost of powerscrolls...

I do not understand why this "unbounding pet" issue is not resolved once and for all, especially for pets which are not tameable but spawn off of a Statuette.... there is lots and lots of Threads and Posts out there, throughout several Years, just as one example, of players losing a very expensive and hard to get Paroxysmus' Swamp Dragon....

@Kyronix , @Bleak , is it possible to get a fix to this issue which, in some cases, might even further lose players to Ultima Online getting extremely upset for their heavy loss ?

Can either (or both) of you at least comment that this issue is being looked at and that there can be some hope that UO players will see it resolved ?

A possible, temporary "patched up" solution before a better fix can be found, could be to make pet immune or way LESS likely to go wild... or, if a bonded pet goes wild, make it so that, for an X time the pet REMAINS bonded to the Master Tamer even if Wild.

Therefore, as soon as a pet goes Wild, the Tamer can recall out of that place with the pet recalling out with, and then be able to retame it somewhere else where that now Wild pet is not bugged by lots of Creatures attacking it....

Thanks.

Sliss

popps said:

@ Kyronix , @ Bleak , is it possible to get a fix to this issue which, in some cases, might even further lose players to Ultima Online getting extremely upset for their heavy loss ?

Can either (or both) of you at least comment that this issue is being looked at and that there can be some hope that UO players will see it resolved ?

At the very least acknowledging this very serious problem would be a good start. The deafening silence in response to multiple pleas over the years is, frankly, insulting.
I understand that it is extremely difficult to hunt down a bug that happens rarely. However, it's severity warrants action. An easy solution that was suggested multiple times is to remove spontaneous going wild altogether. This mechanic is obsolete in the days of pets+scrolls costing hundreds of millions gp.

MissE

The thing is you know there are ppl out there sitting with the attitude that it is 'user' error just because it hasn't happened to them.  Well all I can say to that is in over 16yrs of playing, with

3 tamers on Oceania

2 on Siege

1 on Atlantic

and I mean playing tamers every week for hours upon hours each week this has ONLY happened to me since the pet revamp, and only rarely.  Given I actually train pets, level  them and sell them on any shard I am playing I kinda KNOW how to manage my pets. 

I lore them regularly, feed them regularly, know not to spam commands at them etc.  So before anyone else wants to tell me it is user error, don't bother.  It may never happen to you and if so  you are lucky.  For 12 or more years it didn't happen to me either.

They need to make it that they just DON'T unbond at all.  Maybe if they are so unhappy they will just stop responding to commands until they are happy.  Or make them immune for at least 10 mins after unbonding if they HAVE to persist with this, so spawn can be got rid of and they can be retamed. 

I don't really care about the money involved in scrolling them (although I know a lot of people would be as they don't have as much gold as me)  but I do mind the flipping time it takes to redo them, culling, taming, bonding, leveling them up, training the skills up all to have the whole lot disappear in a second.

If sword/fence/mace/archery weapons or spellbooks just went poof and could be deleted you would get a hot fix instantly.  When you are fighting with a pet in heavy spawn and it unbonds it is equivalent to it going 'poof' and in a lot of cases that pet has cost you millions and hours in obtaining it.

But yes the silence is deafening. 

WornOutYourTool

MissE said:

...all I can say to that is in over 16yrs of playing, ...

 ...happened to me since the pet revamp, and only rarely. 

... It may never happen to you and if so  you are lucky....

... For 12 or more years it didn't happen to me either...

But yes the silence is deafening.  

Sounds like a rare occurrence then.  

We can speculate on user error or what the mechanics of the game 'should' be.  They don't have to, maybe that explains the silence.

MissE

Depends on what you consider 'rare'. Prior to the pet revamp in the previous 12 yrs I had NO pets unbond. 

Since the pet revamp I have had this happen 4 times, one resulting in the death of the pet.   Others have also experienced this since the revamp and if you read the posts in this thread and others it is much more 'common' than it ever used to be.

So yeah it is 'rare' in as much as is doesn't happen often but NOT rare given that prior to the revamp, in my case, never happened and now I am seriously  worried whenever I take a pet out to a major boss event  that it may happen again, I am finding I am spending most of the time loring my darn pets as you cannot 'trust' the game mechanics any longer.

  

Bilbo

I agree with @MissE
The last time there was a major bug with losing pets the devs but in the auto stable.  Not every body lost pets from that bug and there was no set reason for it just like this bug where there is no rhyme or reason for it.
@Kyronix @Bleak @Mesanna please turn off the unbonding portion of the game until this problem can be fixed.  Either make the pet not respond to its master or auto stable so Tamers stop losing their pets

Garth_Grey

The only issue I've ever had, aside from losing bonded vollems long ago, was having a blue beetle not go wild, but it lost its bond while doing Corgul on Siege.

MissE

Yeah it seems to me it is more likely to happen on the more tough bosses, especially stuff that does area affect spells, corgul, grizzle, miasma, crimson dragons,  jounar (lichs) etc I think as the bosses are getting tougher with more area stuff the more likely pet happiness seems to drop to extreme levels very quickly.     Ie in a minute they go from wonderfully happy to unbonding.

Freelsy

I hate to say it, but I bet you were discorded by Ju'nor since it's that boss you specifically stated that you were fighting. Occam's razor...In this case the explanation that requires the least speculation is often correct.

MissE

Freelsy said:

I hate to say it, but I bet you were discorded by Ju'nor since it's that boss you specifically stated that you were fighting. Occam's razor...In this case the explanation that requires the least speculation is often correct.

I was NOT discorded, I can guarantee that.  I have hide/stealth on my tamer and she always stealths to a mob, says 'all kill' and hides instantly as part of the macro, she is barely in range of a spell and would of been visible for all of half a second if that. 

Had only just finished killing Anon, lured the pet, it was wonderfully happy, the bard in the party then  lured Juo'nar to a dif corner and invised then the tamer stealthed with the pet in tow. Said 'all kill' targeted the boss and instantly hid and then saw the 'your pet decides it doesn't want a master' message as soon as the pet had targeted the boss.

Sheesh.  Why do people always have to assume you don't know what you are doing or what you are saying. I am not some newb player and frankly am tired of people who were not there dumping their ten cents in while ignoring what you have said happened. 

NO I was NOT discorded.

Kalaniim_Viaxus

Have lost 2 PSD in a week submitted bug report asked for armor barded pets in uo store Since I don't have tons of gold and I would rather not have to buy something from the uo store sell it for gold then turn around and use the gold to buy the proximas swamp dragon when I could just instead skip the unnecessary step and buy replacement. As far as combat pets go I had a pre patch rune beetle from a long time ago that me and my buddy tamed together I never went through the pet training and one day Fighting Lady m after the satyrs had been taking care of no commands have been given it just gets angry and then unbonds and attacks me because everybody by now should know how to deal with Lady m so this isn't an intelligence issue with the community this is a game breaking issue and it's the reason why I have 120 taming 120 animal or + 120 veterinary on soulstones and don't plan on taking any pets out of my stables for the indefinite future unless a guaranteed fixed to the unbonding issue is released otherwise I will happily hope that they find what is causing this weather is a missing bracket or a missing parentheses.

Petra_Fyde

I'm sure the devs would love to fix it - if only they could get enough information to work out what's causing it.

I would venture to suggest that this:

the tamer stealthed with the pet in tow. Said 'all kill' targeted the boss and instantly hid

information is highly relevant.  How many other people who have had pets unbond have spent significant portions of the hunt time being unseen by the pet?

MissE

OH for goodness sake I have played a stealth tamer for 15 YEARS.  It has nothing to do with the fact I stealth up to the mob, once the pet is on the boss I am visible with consume dmg going.   I moved a whole 1 screen with it which is absolutely no different to what I have done, and how I have played since I started taming. Hardly a 'significant portion of the hunt time' , a whole 45 seconds.

If they can't identify what is causing it the fix is simple, just STOP pets unbonding.   Make it so that just isn't an option.  If it becomes 'unhappy' it just stands there.

If they can't do that then stick a line of code in that makes the pet invulnerable and able to be tamed only by the person it unbonded from for 15mins after the time of unbonding. 

Ya know it gets a bit aggravating when you tell  people that for 12 or so years you NEVER had a pet unbond, that you have not changed the way you do things, but since the pet revamp it has now happened 4 times.   The ONLY difference in anything is the pet revamp.

Bilbo

Petra_Fyde said:

I'm sure the devs would love to fix it - if only they could get enough information to work out what's causing it.

I would venture to suggest that this:

the tamer stealthed with the pet in tow. Said 'all kill' targeted the boss and instantly hid

information is highly relevant.  How many other people who have had pets unbond have spent significant portions of the hunt time being unseen by the pet?

I have taken many pets into the Painted Caves and stood there hidden while they train and have never lost one pet doing this so I do not think it is a out of sight of of mind thing with the pet because if there is no spawn they all know where I am as they come and stand by me waiting for a new target.