UO newsletter#29 worrying statement

Mervyn

uo newsletter#29:
https://mailchi.mp/broadsword/uo-newsletter-29

States:
”5.  Can you add additional macro functionality to the Classic Client? 

This is something we are excited to release in Publish 102, especially the much requested dress/undress macro!”



The example given is a little confusing, as the dress/undress macro in EC is a real problem and most agree its functionality should be limited (during combat). I hope they’re not planning on borking the game by introducing insta dress/undress to CC during combat.

please see discussions:
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/1853/what-is-happening-with-insta-equip-change

ofcourse if they add a dress/undress macro that is limited during combat, and match the rules for EC I’m sure this will indeed be very welcome.

Bilbo

Or they could just do it for the CC and make everyone equal.  You are the only one that has a huge problem with this while the rest of the player base accepts it, so who should UO cater to, you or everybody else.

Sliss

Mervyn said:

uo newsletter#29:
https://mailchi.mp/broadsword/uo-newsletter-29

The example given is a little confusing, as the dress/undress macro in EC is a real problem and most agree its functionality should be limited (during combat). 

No, most think it's just fine. It's a big convenience in PvE, not to mention a money sink. The only ones who have a problem with it are a few PvPers.

Mervyn

Bilbo said:

Or they could just do it for the CC and make everyone equal.  You are the only one that has a huge problem with this while the rest of the player base accepts it, so who should UO cater to, you or everybody else.

They should do what is best for the game. 

I should also point out that I have an issue with insta dress in pvm and role play (not restricted to pvp)

But what IS interesting is that they have mentioned UNDRESS, currently there’s no need for an undress macro (in EC) so it will be nice if they made it so that you must first UNDRESS before you DRESS. So maybe they ARE planning on implementing fixes if they’re going to the trouble of adding UNDRESS. 

jaytin

Surely equality is what is best for the game? I play the EC and I rarely use the dress/undress macro, but why shouldn't they put extra macros is the CC if they can do it? 

Bilbo

Mervyn said:

Bilbo said:

Or they could just do it for the CC and make everyone equal.  You are the only one that has a huge problem with this while the rest of the player base accepts it, so who should UO cater to, you or everybody else.

They should do what is best for the game. 

I should also point out that I have an issue with insta dress in pvm and role play (not restricted to pvp)

But what IS interesting is that they have mentioned UNDRESS, currently there’s no need for an undress macro (in EC) so it will be nice if they made it so that you must first UNDRESS before you DRESS. So maybe they ARE planning on implementing fixes if they’re going to the trouble of adding UNDRESS. 

Just because your brain can not comprehend the fact that a program can replace an item faster then you can see does not mean that it is not removing the item first and then replacing it with another is beyond you i guess.  Do you seriously think that UO has 2 items in the same place and they are hiding the first one just to mess with you before removing it because honestly the way you rant this simple concept is just beyond you.  Also another concept that is totally beyond you is that a computer program works a lot faster than your brain can comprehend.  This is called science not magic and that the box you are setting in front of is a computer controlled device and not a magic box and that you are not a wizard with king arthur and that it is the 21st century.

jaytin

@Bilbo hahahaha nice post, that was very amusing!
Another concept totally beyond Mervyn is that other people want to enjoy their own play-style and not be forced into his!

Smoot

Hopefully dress / undress will not be allowed during combat.  its been abused too long by pvmers and pvpers alike.  defeats the purpose of the loot system where more properties should be "better".  should not be able to get 100 plus free skill points from a macro.  should not be able to get 3k free luck from a macro.  those are obvious abuses and were probably never thought of by the developers when the EC macro was put in.

Mervyn

jaytin said:

@ Bilbo hahahaha nice post, that was very amusing!
Another concept totally beyond Mervyn is that other people want to enjoy their own play-style and not be forced into his!

Some people’s playstyle is to dupe and (removed by mod). Let’s not force them into this!?
(btw I’m still selling up to 30000 of every imbueing ingredient on Europa)

I absolutely think the 2 clients should be equal, however bringing one terrible feature that should never have been introduced into EC in its current form to CC is not the solution. If you bothered to read the original post to the end, it would’ve answered your question. 

Mariah

Some posts have been removed, please stay on topic

Bilbo

TYVM Mariah

Mervyn

Some people’s “chosen play style” is to dupe, not everyone’s “chosen play style” is without consequence to the community as a whole. 

Xare

Mervyn said:

Some people’s “chosen play style” is to dupe, not everyone’s “chosen play style” is without consequence to the community as a whole. 

Kinda like your "chosen play style" is to troll everyone?

On topic, why is there such opposition to changing gear mid combat?  It's been a nice perk of the EC, but its really something that should have been in place for the CC as well.  I'll be nice and not bring a EC/CC discussion into this.

Pawain

Mervyn said:

Some people’s “chosen play style” is to dupe, not everyone’s “chosen play style” is without consequence to the community as a whole. 

Are you telling us that that is how you got 30000 of every imbuing ingredient?

And another person was selling the exact same thing when you brought this up the first time.

Just checking if you mistook this for the confessional site.  Or just a plain advertisement.  thanks

Sliss

Mervyn said:

I absolutely think the 2 clients should be equal, however bringing one terrible feature that should never have been introduced into EC in its current form to CC is not the solution.

Then, maybe in the interest of equality, you should devote a portion of your almost limitless energy to changing CC so that it can not be used with certain illegal 3rd party scripting programs that can pretty much automate anything and everything in game. They do a lot more damage to the game as a whole than ability to change suits.

Bilbo

Mervyn

Sliss you’re not wrong, however this is part of a wider problem. A very high percentage of pvpers who use CC use a speedhack and people have even posted videos of them using it in this forum without recourse (you can tell by the movement of the horsey legs). I’d like to say “ban them” but when they tell me they’re only doing it to match the movement speed of EC, there’s not really a lot to say. They need to also reduce the EC movement speed to match the CCs before you can start telling people not to modify their classic client. Again I don’t think the solution is to have a speed hack inbuilt into CC as it just looks ridiculous all the skipping around on the screen. But this is a topic on another thread:

https://forum.uo.com/discussion/159/ec-vs-cc-running-cornering-speed

@xare there is a link in the original post to a thread that discusses the problems with the ECs insta equip macro. 

Xare

Mervyn said:

@ xare there is a link in the original post to a thread that discusses the problems with the ECs insta equip macro. 

Mervyn said:

There are so many ridiculous things going on involving insta equip changes that I can’t begin to list them. 

Bolding added, because it made me laugh.  So the basic premise of your complaint is that you can just instantly change equipment.  Nothing in that thread really gave a valid reason why this is bad, other than this questionable example:

Mervyn said:

There needs to be something to prevent INSTA suit switching during combat with the EC, it would be very bad for the game if this ability was added to CC.


I will state just 1 example, but i could probably come up with 100, on why INSTA suit switching is bad. Protection spell, gives -30/35 resisting spells, this was designed prior to insta suit switching, now people can just set a macro to switch suit to give +30/35 resisting spells (in place of faster casting) when they cast protection.

Protection also caps FC, which no suit change can fix.  So, again I ask, what's the problem?  Just because the UI for UO is so dated that dragging an item into your paperdoll with an item still equipped doesn't switch it isn't really a valid complaint.  Most modern games allow this change to happen.  Can we make that baseline in UO?

Mervyn

There are too many to list, here are a couple more examples:

chivalry is capped at FC2 with magery over i think 70 without referencing, you can bypass this restriction by simply swapping to +Magery skill items when casting magery spells and back again when casting chiv spells.

focused mages etc get 25 sdi, meaning if you have 60 necro to cast evil omen, you’re supposed to only have 20 sdi cap. However you can just have 29.9 necro and don +necro skill items just to cast evil omen and retain the 25 sdi cap.

Non medible armour gives +LMC at the cost of not being able to med, but when you use all mana can just switch to medible suit.

I could go on but no need, pretty much any and every game mech/cap gets bypassed. 

cobb

It would be a good idea to disable it while in heat of battle or at least put some kind of cooldown timer on it for both clients

Skett

What Cobb said 

also need a skill cap of 750 as well 

Mervyn

They’ve said they’re introducing an undress macro, so let us hope for the best as currently the “undress” feature in EC is obsolete. 

Lady_Storm

Mervyn I do hope your not saying you dupe...  Your statement above I might have read wrong,, but if I ever find you duping your tail is soo gone off this game.

Period

That goes for anyone who thinks duping is their god given right in UO.

That said... now as for the dressing in EC the macro system has needed an over haul. I may not use EC but friends do and its a headache.  Let's see the fix they make  remember we get to test it out...

Mervyn

No I did not dupe them, I got them from a fel idoc, i'm presuming they were duped due to the volume (although they are vendorable).

Lady_Storm

Phew!  Sorry I get very terse when someone says the word DUPE   I have seen too much of it over the 21 years in the game. I feel its the worse cheat anyone could do outside of hacking another persons  account. 

cobb

I am glad dress/undress feature is being added to CC.   But they still need to implement some restrictions to prevent insta suit switching in middle of combat on the EC and CC. If not I can see this causing a lot of problems. There are a lot of ways this could be abused.  Mervyn pointed out a few examples, but there are many more ways.  

Also in pvm, i'm not a fan of ppl switching to max luck suits right at the end of an encounter with insta suit switching.  It pretty much makes functional luck suits (good mods, less luck) obsolete.  Why bother using a functional luck suit, when you can insta switch to a max luck suit?

Sliss

cobb said:

I am glad dress/undress feature is being added to CC.   But they still need to implement some restrictions to prevent insta suit switching in middle of combat on the EC and CC. If not I can see this causing a lot of problems. There are a lot of ways this could be abused.  Mervyn pointed out a few examples, but there are many more ways.  

Also in pvm, i'm not a fan of ppl switching to max luck suits right at the end of an encounter with insta suit switching.  It pretty much makes functional luck suits (good mods, less luck) obsolete.  Why bother using a functional luck suit, when you can insta switch to a max luck suit?

Dress/undress feature has been available without restrictions for years without any kind of problems. I don't see why it should start causing problems now. In addition, this feature has been available on 3rd party programs compatible with CC that are not policed in any practical manner. So any restrictions would be just an EC nerf  to satisfy some PvPers at the expense of vast majority of players.
In PvM this feature adds quite a bit of things to do for players, since now you need more suits for your characters. It also adds for things to do during combat. But most importantly, it is actually a very nice gold sink. On some of my characters I carry 3 suits (Glass cannon, tank, luck). I die quite a bit more than if I had just one full defense suit. And when I die, my insurance bills is 30k. That adds up very quickly when you die multiple times to a hard boss or during events.
To summarize: this feature provides dozens of hours of extra game play for users (farming additional suits), it adds more strategy to combat, and it's a great gold sink. Restricting it would accomplish nothing more than anger majority of the players.

cobb

so you are saying its ok since you can do it with a cheat program? 

sorry that is not a good excuse to allow this to happen

cobb

in pvm this feature limits the amount of gameplay. Why spend dozens of hours farming a functional luck suit, when you can bypass all that using insta suit switching to a max luck suit?

Even if insta suit switching is allowed in middle of combat (which I would highly advise against), there needs to be a 5 min cooldown at least

cobb

When you ask a cheater why they use cheat programs, they will say they do it because they don't really consider it cheating because you can do it in the EC anyway.  

When you ask a EC user why they an unfair advantage in the EC should be left alone, they say well you can do it with 3rd party program anyway.

This type of attitude is not going to get us anywhere.


....

  

Sliss

cobb said:

so you are saying its ok since you can do it with a cheat program? 

sorry that is not a good excuse to allow this to happen

No I am saying that,if anything, it will create even more imbalance than there already is, and alienate a bunch of players. It is a lose lose suggestion.